Searching for information regarding Paulson relatives

[Frederick William "Bill" Paulson]

The basis of this inquiry is a handwritten note by an unidentified source reporting that "The Paulsons came from Copenhagen, Denmark. The father and grandfather were teachers in a boy's school there. The father, Peder, his wife and mother and five children left Denmark in May, 1862, arriving in Pine River, Wisconsin, August. The same month, Peder died."

The following tombstones are located together in the cemetery at Pine River, Wisconsin: "H. Paulson, Oct. 12, 1833--Sep. 22,1862"; "Mother, Feb.12, 1828--Dec. 11, 1899"; "Grandma, Mar. 27, 1805--Aug. 15, 1890".

I'm seeking advice on where to search for documentation that supports or refutes this information and that will allow me to continue the search for my Danish ancestors.

[Homer Ficken]

Although not a perfect match, this must be the family:

30 July 1862 ship Goethe, arrived NY from Hamburg
H. Poulsen 27 Denmark
Maria Poulsen 36 "
Hans Poulsen 6 "
Fred Poulsen 4 "
Maria Poulsen 2 "
John Poulsen 9 mos "

The mother must have remarried:

1870 census Leon, P. O. Pine River, Waushara County, Wisconsin
John Peterson 35 Denmark
Mary Peterson 41 "
Peter Polson 17 "
Hans Polson 14 "
Fred Polson 12 "
Mary Polson 9 "
Anna Polson 8 "

But oldest son Peter and the grandmother are not on above passenger list.  Do you have any record of the grandmother's first name?   In the 1900 census of above locale, Peter Paulson born 1853 listed immigration year as 1861.

[Frederick William "Bill" Paulson]

Homer,

Thank you very much for your prompt response. Could you please provide a link to the site from which you obtained the passenger list?

I do not have a name for the grandmother, but do have what may be a photograph of her if that will help.

Bill

[Homer Ficken]

I have a paid subscription to Ancestry, but have attached the listings.

The Goethe's voyage is also on the free Castle Garden site but their transcription is incomplete:   http://www.castlegarden.org/

And a correction:  Upon second look, the infant I listed as John is Joh'a [Johanna] female so would be the Anna age 8 in 1870 census.

If they attended a Lutheran church, see if the books are available for their death dates, as more specific names, relationships, and place of origin may be listed.

It may be the grandmother had also remarried, or was Maria's mother.  Unless the photo is from Denmark with a studio listed, I doubt it will help.   

A long shot, but age of the Joh'e [Johanne] Petersen listed next family on the passenger list matches birthdate of "Grandma" and Leon Township censuses list a Christana Peterson 65 Denmark in 1870 and Johanna Peterson 75 Denmark in 1880.

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[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Frederick

When I visited Greenville, Michigan last Summer we went to the local arhive i Greenville - where we found some informations of the persons The family over there was Looking for - that gave them a knowledge of where the ancestors were born in Denmark.

So You could maybe give that a try.

[Homer Ficken]

A search of the Wisconsin Historical Society's data for Waushara County shows death of Mary Peterson Dec 11, 1899 and a copy may be purchased:   http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/vitalrecords/

They do not list any deaths for dates Sep 28, 1862 or Aug 15, 1890.

They also list marriage of Mary Paulson to Peter Peterson, Apr 5, 1868

[Jane C]

From Ancestry.com
1880 census - Leon, Waushara, Wisconsin
Peter C. Polson 27 b abt 1853 Denmark - farmer
Mary F. Polson 21 b abt 1859 Wisconsin
Charles R. Polson 1 b abt 1879 Wisconsin

couple of lines down on this census: Lars and Trine Polson, both 63, b abt 1817 Denmark

next page of this census: Johanna Peterson 75 b abt 1805 in Denmark widowed mother in law to Christian Peterson [sic] 47 b Denmark married to Carrie (W. or M.) Peterson 52 b Denmark (adopted son Sam Sorenson, 7, b Wisconsin)

1900 Poysippi, Waushara, Wisconsin
Peter Paulson b APR 1853 Denmark immigrated 1861
Mae Paulson b APR 1866 Wisconsin - parents b NY
Walter 19 b DEC 1880
Fred 17 b JUN 1882
Florence 16 b DEC 1883
Grace 8 b b FEB 1892
Olive 9 months old b AUG 1899

1910 Waupaca, Waupaca, WI
Peter and May with Grace 18, Olive 10, Marie 3

[Frederick William "Bill" Paulson]

Homer and Liz,

Thank you very much. I will be investigating the leads you have provided as soon as possible. One of my next steps will be attempting to determine a residence location in Denmark prior to their emigration to America. Your suggestions on the best way to proceed in that regard would be appreciated and most useful.

Jane,

I have previously seen the information you provided regarding the 1900 Poysippi, Waushara, Wisconsin census, but, had not yet made the Peterson connection which I will be investigating. Thanks for your help.

Bill

[Jane C]

Hi Bill,

The free, searchable Dansk Demografisk Database (Danish census) has an English version. Not all Danish census data has, as of yet, been put online. I did not find Paulsen/son, Poulsen/son, Polsen/son, but doesn't mean someone won't find your family. (I am guessing Homer has also looked here.) This database is picky about spellings, so use wildcards (more info about that on the site): www.ddd.dda.dk

The churchbooks are the main source of family history information. Check out: English Instructions for using arkivalieronline.dk (AO) and AO Tools provided by Lynn Christiansen
http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,166.0.html

Family Search ( www.familysearch.org ) is free and more forgiving about spelling variations. But it is lacking lots of info.

Ancestry.com is a paid subscripton site; many public libraries subscribe and you can use it from the library computer or perhaps even log on remotely with your library card.

Find-a-Grave is useful sometimes ( www.findagrave.com ) - an American tool. An obituary or life story is sometimes - not often - included that could provide leads.

American info can provide clues that will help in Denmark searches so it's fine to post all that here. For example, would help to know what "H." Poulsen means. One searches the USA-oriented databases when striking out with the more obvious search tools - as in this case. Because obviously what we prefer to know is where is this famiy in DENMARK?  

International Genealogical Index is an older database which, like Family Search, has been developed by the Latter Day Saints. It is being incorporated into Family Search.

One's own family lore can really help - your handwritten note is verified by the records found to date. Think about what else /who else might be able to add little bits of info.

Many more specialized search tools exist for Danish genealogy - and the people in this forum (not me, but others) are experts in using them, so posting your question here is one of the best strategies around.

Warm best wishes

[Jane C]

This is another long shot - I haven't found a link to this Paulson family, nor have I found them in Denmark.

1905
Leon, Waushara, Wisconsin, USA
William Paulson 43 b 1862 Denmark
Christina Paulson 41 wife
Malvina, Elmer, Francis, Roy, Ella, Buaney [ = Bernie], Lillian, Myrtle

1900
Springwater, Waushara, Wisconsin
William, Christina, with children Melvina, Elmer, Francis, Roy, Ella, Bernie
year of immigration for William = 1864

1880
Springwater, Waushara, Wisconsin
Hans Polson 62 b Denmark [abt 1818]
Mary A. Polson 53 b Denmark [abt 1827]
William Polson 19 b Denmark
with George Mortensen father-in-law 75 b Denmark

1875
Spring Water, Waushara, Wisconsin
Hans Polson (2 males, 1 female in household)

Mvh

[Frederick William "Bill" Paulson]

I wish to thank all who have responded to my original post and to offer the following as clarification. It was not my intent to mislead anyone; however, I'm afraid that may have happened.

I am a direct descendant of Peter Paulson whose family is correctly identified, according to personal knowledge, in the following listing in the 1900 US census:

1900 Poysippi, Waushara, Wisconsin

Peter Paulson b APR 1853 Denmark immigrated 1861
Mary Paulson b APR 1866 Wisconsin - parents b NY
Walter 19 b DEC 1880
Fred 17 b JUN 1882
Florence 16 b DEC 1883
Grace 8 b b FEB 1892
Olive 9 months old b AUG 1899

Peter is one of the five children mentioned in my original post who reportedly emigrated from Denmark in with his parents and grandmother in 1861.

I am seeking documentation, e.g. a passenger list confirming the family's emigration from Copenhagen and identifying the port at which they arrived in America. I understand that some emigrants sailed to Canada rather than the US; however, family lore suggests they stopped in New York state to visit a relative before proceeding on to Pine River, Wisconsin.

Ultimately, I would like to learn where the family lived in Denmark prior to emigrating in order to learn more about earlier family history.

Again, thanks to all who have responded to my post. Your efforts on my behalf are sincerely appreciated.

Bill Paulson

[Homer Ficken]

Bill, although Peter listed 1861 in the census, I note that Hans Paulson born 1856 also listed 1861, and it's common for those who arrived years earlier to err in later censuses.   I don't find Peter on any manifest that period, but it's unlikely he emigrated alone at age 8 or 9, so he may have just been missed on the passenger list.  If a bit older, I'd think maybe he came as a cabin boy, as only paid passengers were listed.

I'm confident the July 1862 Goethe manifest is the family listed in the 1870 Waushara County census, who your note states left Denmark in May 1862 and arrived Wisconsin in August.

Many Danish families left from ports other than Copenhagen.  My wife's ancestors from Tønder Amt left from Hamburg.   Others left from Bremen, Liverpool, etc.   And until you have evidence beyond the note that they were from Copenhagen, keep an open mind, as many Americans relate anything Danish to there.

Your key to finding their Danish roots will be something that lists a specific place, parish, or county of origin.  Check for a family Bible, baptism certificates, church records, death certificates, etc.  

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi

Going through the census 1845 i Denmark using the age 10-15 Years i get 56 all over the country suggestions with the name H. Poulsen. I have used the age from Homers script where it is mentioned H. Poulsen is 27 Years old.

When I use the same request with the age of 10 I get 11 suggestions.

Therfore it is difficult to presume who is the person we are looking for when we don't know thes fathers firstname or the place he is born.

[Homer Ficken]

Bill, although Peter listed 1861 in the census, I note that Hans Paulson born 1856 also listed 1861, and it's common for those who arrived years earlier to err in later censuses.    

1910 Waupaca Ward 3, Waupaca, Wisconsin
Peter C Paulson 54 Denmark, immigrated 1865
May C Paulson 43 Wisconsin
Grace L Paulson 18 "
Olive M Paulson 10 "
Marie F Paulson 3 "

1920 Chippewa Falls Ward 1, Chippewa, Wisconsin
Peter C Paulson 66 Denmark, immigrated 1862
May C Paulson 53 Wisconsin
Marie Paulson 13 "

1930 Seattle, King, Washington
May Paulson 63 Wisconsin, widow
Marie F Paulson 23 " father b. Denmark, mother b. Wisc

[Jane C]

Hi Bill -

I'm not sure why you think we're confused.

You wrote: "I will be investigating the leads you have provided as soon as possible. One of my next steps will be attempting to determine a residence location in Denmark prior to their emigration to America. Your suggestions on the best way to proceed in that regard would be appreciated and most useful." -- Bill

I noted the most obvious databases for you to search, and reassured you that people in the forum are already searching those databases, without luck so far. Most often you won't get a post from someone saying what they didn't find.

Also, I explained the U.S. research this way: "American info can provide clues that will help in Denmark searches so it's fine to post all that here....One searches the USA-oriented databases when striking out with the more obvious search tools - as in this case. Because obviously what we prefer to know is where is this famiy in DENMARK."

You might have already known of the family info we developed in Wisconsin - but we did not.

It's a long shot that the other Paulsen family in and near Leon, Waushara, Wisconsin is related to the family that we seek - but they could be. If we see both families together in Denmark, that would help us decide it's the same Paulsens as the Wisconsin family. Otherwise, it's hard to tell which Paulsens in Denmark are your Paulsens. As Lis writes: "It is difficult to presume who is the person we are looking for when we don't know the fathers firstname or the place he is born."

I wouldn't have posted the "long shot" if we had anything better to offer. In fact I had seen them earlier and didn't comment. Also, I've seen more census info (as we all have no doubt) we haven't posted because it doesn't add a new lead.

We're looking for a link from one continent to the other. To do that, we need info from both sides of the Atlantic.

And yes, we forgive you for not telling us all you knew right away! 

Mvh

[Jane C]

As an example of my point (above)

Homer found this:

30 July 1862 ship Goethe, arrived NY from Hamburg
H. Poulsen 27 Denmark
Maria Poulsen 36 "
Hans Poulsen 6 "
Fred Poulsen 4 "
Maria Poulsen 2 "
Johanna Poulsen 9 mos "

PETER IS NOT HERE.

The 1870 census in which the mother has remarried:

1870 census Leon, P. O. Pine River, Waushara County, Wisconsin
John Peterson 35 Denmark
Mary Peterson 41 "
Peter Polson 17 "
Hans Polson 14 "
Fred Polson 12 "
Mary Polson 9 "
Anna Polson 8 "

PETER IS HERE.

The remarriage which is guessed at is confirmed when Homer found this: "marriage of Mary Paulson to Peter Peterson, Apr 5, 1868" at Wisconsin Historical Society.

The children's names and ages, together with their mother, match exactly, and now we see that they also have a Peter with them. Why he isn't shown on the passenger manifest we don't know - Homer gives examples of why it could be.

It is only through the U.S. census that we can tell the passenger manifest that Homer found is YOUR Paulsens. Later U.S. census info gives date of immigration (that info was not recorded in 1870) - which is why the later census is necessary to further cement the identity as the "right" Paulsens.

Can you see the forum can't just pluck a Paulsen out of Denmark for someone?

[Homer Ficken]

Another small correction:  I misread the mother Maria's age on the passenger list and it should be 34, which matches age of "Mother" on the cemetery marker.

[Jane C]

Homer,
Well, you are just amazing. This family was in a cemetery in Wisconsin when we began - and now they are on the Atlantic, halfway between Denmark and the U.S.! That is progress!

I looked for them too in immigration lists - and didn't see them. This has happened before, when you find info I could not.

Thanks and mvh

Bill,

Since you asked for suggestions for how to search, I'll expand - I didn't previously state the below thinking you would have thought of these already:

Call, write, or visit the Waushara, Wisconsin, historical society and/or county courthouse for the missing death records. Search for death records for H. Paulson, Maria Paulson Petersen, Peter Paulson, and Peter's siblings. The death records for H. might state his name and possibly his parents; death record for Maria might list her parents; death records for the children might state the full name of "H.," and again, possibly list their Danish birth place.

Since you have (or can find) the date of death for a number of individuals, also seek obituaries for them. Most newspapers of that era are not online but may be microfilmed and available at Wisconsin State Historical Society or locally in Waushara County. Again, the above info might be included.

And again - the family lore idea. Descendants with whom you are not in touch could have this info as part of their oral family tradition - my own knowledge of my Danish ancestors goes back from U.S. to Denmark - because it was TOLD to me. Some of your more distant cousins might know more than you do.

[Frederick William "Bill" Paulson]

Homer, Jane, et al,

You people are amazing and I am grateful for your help. My choice of words (mislead) in the addendum to my original post was unfortunate and I wish to apologize to those whom I may have offended. I was (and still am) somewhat conflicted in deciding what is too much or too little information to include when requesting assistance in this type of forum. In retrospect, my original post should have included more; however, had I described all that I already know, I felt the post would have been too lengthy. So, please accept my thanks for your help thus far and my apologies if I have offended anyone.

In the way of additional information that hopefully will assist in finding this family in Denmark, I am in possession of photocopies of two Wisconsin Marriage records for Peter Charles Polsen that include the names of his father and mother. The first marriage occurred March 24,1878 and was to Mary Florence Gardner. His father's name is written as Hans Polsen, his mother's is written Maria Polsen. Peter's second marriage occurred May 22, 1889 and was to May C. Webb. On this marriage record Peter's name is shown as Peter C. Paulson. His father's name is shown as Hans W. Paulson. The name of his mother before marriage is shown as K.M. Hanson.

The names of Peter's father and mother listed on his sister, Mary's marriage record, dated Jan. 30th, 1979 are Hans and Mary Paulson.

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Perhaps the marriage of the parents?
HANS PAULSEN    Pedigree
     Male         Family
         
Event(s):
   Birth:
   Christening:
   Death:
   Burial:
         
Marriages:
     Spouse:     KAREN MARIE HANSDR    Family
     Marriage:     
19 JAN 1856      Saedder, Praesto, Denmark
   

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Jane C]

!!! Eureka.  8)

Here from Bill we have Peter Charles Polsen, Hans W. Paulson, and K. M(aria) Hanson - Hooray!!!

Yes, it's hard when new at this to realize what is needed, Bill - but by the beard of Holger Danske, this is it. We all live and learn.

If you have more middle names of Hans and K. Maria offspring, or can get them, Bill, that would be great to share. Remember, the baptisms we seek in Denmark will have all three names.

And from Paul his "find" could be right - although Peter would be born before that wedding. I'm sure Paul has already been searching for the children's births for this couple hoping to find matches to the folks in Wisconsin.

Mvh

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Karen Marie Hansen, born February 2, 1828 at Sæder, Sædder 1814-1839, opslag 126 #2.  Close surely counts.  The marriage is in 1839-1866, opslag 131, the tenth betrothal for 1855.

Hans Poulsen at the age given in the marriage record as born sometime in 1834, not in the Sædder births 1832-1835.  He should be in the list of arrivals to the parish or among the confirmations.

mvh
-Ralph

[Lissa Pedersen]

Finding the right people is not easy.

Found this - the names fit, but not the years?

Hans Waldemar POULSEN    
 Sex: M    

Event(s):    
Birth: 12 May 1856  Place: <Saedder, Praesto, Denmark>
Christening: 06 Jul 1856  Place: Saedder, Praesto, Denmark

Parents:    
 Father: Hans POULSEN
 Mother: Karen Marie HANSDR

Source Information:    
 Batch Number: C223753
 Source Dates: 1839 - 1867
 Film or Fiche Number: 50779
 Collection Details: Saedder; Den Danske Folkekirke

Opslag 22 in Sædder (1839-1866)

HANS PAULSEN Pedigree
  Male   Family
   
Event(s):
Birth: 
Christening: 
Death: 
Burial: 

Marriages:
  Spouse:  KAREN MARIE HANSDR  Family
  Marriage:  19 JAN 1856   Saedder, Praesto, Denmark

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date. 
     
Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type: 

M223753  1839 - 1866  0050779   Film  NONE   
 
Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

Could be Karen Marie in 1850:

Samtlige personer i husstanden

Præstø, Bjæverskov, Vollerslev, Fløiterup, en Gaard, 59, FT-1850, B3767
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Christensen 56  Gift  Gmd. Vollerslev sogn
Birthe Hansdatter 34  Gift  Hans kone Bjeverskov sogn
Christen Hansen 16  Ugift  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Hans Hansen 11  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Maren Hansen 9  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Lidse Hansen 3  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Karen Marie Hansen 2  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Jens Hansen 1  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Lars Hansen 1  -  Deres barn Vollersløv sogn
Jens Nielsen 20  -  Tjenestekarl Tersløv sogn, Sorø Amt
Karen Marie Hansen 22  -  Tjenestepige (servant) Sædder sogn (parish), Præstø Amt

And here in 1845:

Præstø, Bjæverskov, Bjæverskov, Bjæverskov Bye, 1 Gaard, 10, FT-1845, C5478
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Rasmussen 37  Gift  Gaardmand Gl. Kjøge Præstø
Johanne Larsdatter 45  Gift  hans Kone Lidemark Præstø
Ane Marie Larsdatter 21  Ugift  Deres Børn Bjæverskov Præstø
Svend Larsen 11  Ugift  Deres Børn Bjæverskov Præstø
Lars Larsen 4  Ugift  Deres Børn Bjæverskov Præstø
Karen Marie Hansen 17  Ugift  Tjenestefolk (servant) Sæder Sogn Præstø A.
Jens Hansen 20  Ugift  Tjenestefolk Gersløv Sogn Sorø Amt

And in 1840:

Præstø, Bjæverskov, Sædder, Ringsbjerg, Tyendehuus, 2, FT-1840, B4663
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Christian Pedersen 37  Gift  Jordbruger og arbeidsmand, lever mest af sin jordlod  
Johanne Christiansdatter 35  Gift  Hans kone  
Peder Hansen 13  Ugift  Deres barn  
Karen Marie Hansdatter 12  Ugift  Deres barn  
Maren Hansdatter 9  Ugift  Deres barn  
Ane Sofie Hansdatter 3  Ugift  Deres barn

And in 1834:

Præstø, Bjæverskov, Sædder, Thvedehuse, , 39, FT-1834, B4644
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
unge (young) Hans Pedersen 36  Gift  Huusmand og lever af sin jordlod 
Johanne Lisbeth Christensdatter 29  Gift  Hans kone 
Peder Hansen 8  Ugift  Deres barn 
Karen Maria Hansdatter 7  Ugift  Deres barn 
Maren Hansdatter 3  Ugift  Deres barn

Lissa

[Ralph Rasmussen]

The Hans Poulsen of the marriage was confirmed in Vollenslev in 1849, and there noted as born October 12, 1834 (Vollenslev 1838-1861, opslag 59 #1 of 1849).  The cross-references are the vaccination date in the marriage and the tilgang for Sædder.

mvh
-Ralph

[Jane C]

Lissa - The son Hans turned into a Walter in U.S. census - I'll go fetch it. As far as memory serves, the year is right.

[Homer Ficken]

I believe the family has been found, and Bill I hope this doesn't upset you but it appears Peter was Hans' stepson:

The 1900 census lists Peter's birthdate as April 1853 and that of his brother Hans as May 1856.

Peder Christiansen born 22 April 1853, to Karen Marie Hansdatter 25 and Christian P---?  (unsure of surname, Saedder 1839-1866, opslag 18 #7, attached)

Hans Valdemar Poulsen born 12 May 1856, parents Hans Poulsen and Karen Marie Hansdatter.
(opslag 22 #9)

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[Lissa Pedersen]

I think that Karen Marie is with Christian P and alleged father is (perhaps) Hans Poulsen!?

Bedtime ... will see tomorrow what you find out.

Lissa

[Homer Ficken]

The 1862 Saeder Afgangsliste shows the family group leaving for America:

Johanne Lisbet? Ankersdatter? 57  [this would be "Grandma"]
Peter Christiansen 9
Hans Poulsen 28
Karen Marie Hansdatter 34
Hans Valdemar Poulsen 6
Frederik Poulsen 4-1/2
Marie Caroline Poulsen 2-1/2
Johanne Eurabelle? Poulsen 4 mos?

There is a note indicating something about May 1860 in the far right column

(Saedder 1839-1866 opslag 203)

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[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Peter Christiansen was born on 23 Apr 1853 in Sædder, opslag 18 nr 7, parents unmarried Karen Marie Hansen and Christian P??.

A girl was born on 19 Apr 1862 to Hans Poulsen and Karen Marie Hansen, opslag 75 nr 4.  In the remarks section it says something about Amerika.  I suspect the parents went to the US before the child was baptized.

Sincerely,
Paul