New user, Schleswig Search

[Ronald Nielson]

Hello,

I wanted to introduce myself first and also ask for direction in searching for some more records.

I have been sucessful in searching for kirkeboger and folktaeling on Statens Arkivers.  I like these records very much and have a great time reading through the digital books.  I have found many of my family from the Horsens (Rasmussen) and Arhus (Nielsen) regions of Denmark.  These two family lines have provided my mother's side (her father Rasmussen) and my father's side (his father Nielsen).

Now I am trying to expand the two other lines.  One is the reason for my spelling of Nielson, as he married a Swedish woman in the USA and demanded the change to a Swedish spelling of Nielson.  I have already found much Database information at the FHL and LDS databases and will see if digital original records are also available in Sweden when I get that far.

FOR MY REAL search at present is for my mother's family; and her father's side.  His name is Tagge and he came from Denmark also.  This is where my problem begins.  I have found information in a database about the Tagge family and that they are from the Schleswig-Holstein area.  I cannot however seem to find any of the digital records that I ahve been using for Arhus and Horsens in the other lines.  I read that the folktaeling and kirkeboger were also available, but I have not been able to see the actual books that I can read through from the first until the last page.

Am I not searching the right method?  Though I would appreciate help with information about them and will welcome it.  I REALLY want to read through the records myself if possible as I am facinated with doing that and though it is sometimes hard to read in Danish and Gothic, it makes the search even more fun for me.

If anyone can send me a link to a location that I may get to the digital records, I would be very happy.  If I have to order the records I am willing to do that as well, but I want to be sure I am ordering the correct ones.

Here is just a bit of information about the Tagge family from Schleswig-Holstein.

"Pete and brother John were the first of the Tagge family to come to America, having worked their way over on a freighter from Germany.  It took them two months to make the trip.  Pete was the older of the two and was 16 years of age when making the trip, his brother John was 14, the trip was made in the year of 1864.  They were instrumental in getting their parents to come over, but the family did not arrive until the late 1860s.  Pete claims Danish ancestry by reason of having been born under the rule of Denmark.  Germany took possession of what was later known as Schleswig-Holstein in the year of about 1870, this formally was a part of Denmark."

Pete homesteaded 9 miles northwest of Grand Island Nebraska in Harrison township, 16 March 1872.  He got 160 acres for $640.00 or $4.00 per acre.  This is now the site of the Cornhusker Army Ammo Plant.  Pete homesteaded the land from the Union Pacific Railway.  Pete and John worked on the construction crew which put down the first railroad track in Nebraska.  Their work took them as far as Grandy (Gandy) Nebraska, now known as Brady and Cozad. 

Lexington Nebraska at that time was known as Plum Creek, a nestling place for Indians.  His accounts of the hardships endured by the railroad builders especially in attacks by indians, always were most interesting.

After having been in the Territory for a while he went to Davenport Iowa and married Margaretha Gretschen Ahlf, duaghter of Hans Ahlf, the ceremony was performed by justice of the peace in Scott County, Magaretha was 19 years of age.
*************
Buried in Grand Island Cemetary, Lot 190H, Cause of Death Uremia, Place of Death: 1124 W. 10th St. Grand Island Nebraska Funeral Home: O'Laughlin/Livingston

Also listed as born in KronzPrinzenkoog, Ditmarschen, Germany,
****************
Peter died at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on Tuesday.at his home at 1124 West Tenth Street.  The son of Claus J. and Mathilda Tagge was born in Marne, Schleswig Holstein Germany, on 7 March 1848. He was the last surviving member of a family of eleven.  Coming to America in 1865 he found employment in Wiscosnsin and Iowa and later as a memeber of the construction crew of the railroad.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Ronald,

I believe you can find the church records for Marne and Kronprinzenkoog only in Germany:

Kirchenkreis Süderdithmarschen
Kirchenkreis Süderdithmarschen
Klosterhof 17
D-25704 Meldorf
( Albersdorf, Barlt, Brunsbüttel, Brunsbüttelkoog, Burg i.Dithmarschen, Eddelak, Helgoland, Hemmingstedt, Kronprinzenkoog, Lohe-Rickelsdorf, Marne, Meldorf, Nordhastedt, St.Michaelisdonn, Süderhastedt, Wöhrden)

They are not on-line. Besides, Germany has some tricky rules of accessibility and it usually costs to get information from the church records.

A minor comment uponthe spelling of your family name. It's half Danish and half Swedish. The Swedish spelling would have been Nilsson.

Eva M

[Inger Buchard]

I suggest you read what you find at http://www.aggsh.de/engl/index.html
The chairman of this group is also the leader of the church archive in Meldorf, mentioned by Eva Morfiadakis - and a very skilled researcher. His fees are mentioned on the homepage

Inger

[Homer Ficken]

Immigrants often listed the largest city in a vicinity instead of their smaller village, and if you go to http://mapper.acme.com/  and search for KronzPrinzenkoog you will see it less than 2 miles NW of Marne.

The LDS site lists microfilm of Marne church records to 1874, which you can order on loan for view at your nearest LDS Family History Center:

Title Kirchenbuch, 1661-1874
Authors Evangelische Kirche Marne (Kr. Süderdithmarschen) (Main Author)

Notes Mikrofilm aufgenommen von Manuskripten in Berlin, 1936.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parish registers of baptisms, marriages, and deaths for Marne, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany. Left-side pages (l. S.) sometimes filmed separately from right-side pages (r. S.). Many pages illegible.


Subjects  Germany, Preußen, Schleswig-Holstein, Marne - Church records 


Format  Manuscript (On Film) 
Language  German
Latin 
Publication  Leipzig : Zentralstelle für Genealogie, 1984 
Physical  auf 23 Mikrofilmrollen ; 35 mm. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If Peter and his brother came on a freighter as crewmembers, they will probably not be on any available passenger list, but I have attached manifest of the ship Deutschland's arrival at New York from Hamburg 22 May 1866, listing a Peter Tagge 17, who is listed consecutively with a Joh. Tagge family.

But name and age may only be coincidence, and on this site:  http://www.rootdigger.de/   you will also find:

Tagge, Peter Gehrt 1848  Accused of not showing for military service and of leaving the country without the required permit, after 1866.




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[Eva Morfiadakis]

I found Peter Tagge on FS in a census and year of immigration is 1866.
I should be him as No.209 on the passenger list. The family travelling together is probably his uncle John/Johan in German.
From FS:

birth: 1848 —Germany
residence: 1930 —Grand Island, Hall, Nebraska
immigration: 1866
census: 1930 —Grand Island, Hall, Nebraska
spouse: Margaret Tagge

In the 1900 census it says 1865, and for John 1870. John is on image 2 and Peter on image 3 of Harrison Township, Hall, Nebraska.

Eva M

[Homer Ficken]

This must be Peter's parents and siblings

1880 Hall County, Nebraska
Clause Tagge 60
Matilda Tagge 57
John Tagge 30
Clause Tagge 24
Henry Tagge 19
Cristina Tagge 14
Herman Tagge 13
Matilda Tagge 4
Catheron Tagge 2

Birth of all except youngest two listed as "Holstine"

In the 1900 census Claus listed 1870 as their immigration year and I believe the attached hastily written passenger list is them, arriving New York 20 May 1870 on ship Allemannia.   Matilda is written as "Telde"

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[Eva Morfiadakis]

The parents are also in image 3, born in Dec. 1819 and Nov. 1819 (Mathilda has become Tilda)

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I wonder if the two youngest children are children of Claus's and Mathilda's considering the fact that she is 57??? Aren't they grandchildren who have been left with their grandparents?

Eva M

[Homer Ficken]

Here is a family tree of Peter born 1848 posted on World Connect, tracing him back to a Peter Tagge born 1793 in Marne:   http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3107738&id=I610197059

If you don't already know the submitter, suggest you contact her or him.

[Jane C]

With Homer's lead, you've hit the jackpot Ronald!!!!

Ancestry.com has this family line for your Peter Tagge. Now the task is to locate the right records and look them over for yourself, to verify that this research is sound.

This Ancestry tree has tons of VERY cool photos of your family!

http://records.ancestry.com/Peter_Gehrt_Tagge_records.ashx?pid=58874049

and a RootsWeb tree that helps to see the whole line of ancestors and descendants:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:1921295&id=I111067289


1. Dierck Tagge (1600-1668) and Gerdrut ( - 1668)

2. Johan Tagge ( - died 9 Dec 1697 in Auenbuttel) and Antie Jungen

3. Peter Tagge (born 18 Jun 1682) and Gretje Vietsen

4. Peter Tagge (21 Feb 1731- 1795) and Telsche Hollers

5. Peter Tagge (14 Feb 1773- 01 Jan 1831) and Anti Kruse (1769 - 1847)

6. Peter Tagge (born 1793 in Marne, Schelswig Holstein, Germany - ) and Catharina Thomsen (1791 - )

7. Claus Jacob Tagge born 23 Dec 1820 in Westermenghusen, Marne, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany and died 31 Oct 1908 in Harrison Township, Hall, Nebraska, USA). Claus married Matilda Margaretha Witt born 15 Nov 1823 in Dreiangel, Germany to parents Gehrdt Witt and Catharina Elsabe Ehlers.

8. Their son Peter Gehrt Tagge (born 1847 Germany - 16 Oct 1934 in Grand Island, Hall,Nebraska, USA) married Margaretha Ahlf, born in Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, 1859 to Hans Ahlf and Angie; died 19 Jan 1950 in Grand Island, Hall, Nebraska

9. Claus Adolph Tagge

10. Elmer Edward Tagge

etc.

[Ronald Nielson]

Eva,  Thank you for the link to Meldorf.  I have it for my records and will be contacting them in the coming days.  Also, it is funny how names are made and have changed over time.

Inger, I will go to your link as well, but I really wish to do the research myself.  It is not that I feel the services a researcher might rpovide are not worth a payment, it is because I have an interest and wish to learn more as I conduct the research.  Maybe if I contact him he will provide me some direction so I can search and learn at the same time.  I really feel that doing this myself is what makes the history come to life and feel as though it is a part of MY HISTORY.

Homer, Thank you for your input and efforts as well.  I had found the desrtion record of military service, and that is the correct person.  I will have to review the ship record you mention.  Can you tell me your method to use in finding it so quickly?  I have never ordered a MF from the LDS, but I will try to learn how to do that.  I believe there is a center just 10 miles from my home.

Eva, thank you again.  I have not looked into the Tagge part of my history as I had been researching the Rasmussen and Nielsen lines so far.  I will do some more digging with my living relatives and hope that will proivde some more clarity to the census records.  I also have them in Davenport Iowa and Peter marries a Margaretha Ahlf there in 1880.  She is also listed as coming from Schleswig-Holstein.  This is what makes this so much fun!!!!!!

Homer, now more confusion about when they arrive.  I will need to work on this.  Right census record though and thank you.

Eva, I believe the two youngest children are the from a Catherina Tagge born in 1852 (Holstein).  She is not listed in this portion of the census record but was married to James Heesch and died very early in their marriage.  I think her grandchildren are living in this home.  Later James Heesch marries Catherin's sister LENA and they raise the children together.

Homer, thank you again.  I am aware of Clewis and she is part of my relatives.

I am concerned that much information my family has to date came from a company that provided a genealogy book in nebraska in the 1950's.  This is why I must try harded to find the actual records.  I am finding that the work they provided many years ago was not very accurate or had much missing.

Thank you to everyone again.  I hope to be a good member here and learn a lot.

[Ronald Nielson]

Jane,  Thank you for looking and responding here.  I was not aware of any photos, but I will look again.  maybe I am not using the site to its fullest ability.  I have much of thisdate fromthe database, how would you recommend looking for the actual records?  This is exactly where I am.

Let me provide an example.  In the Marriage of Peter, I have found the the actual record in Iowa, and Magaretha Ahlf's parents are not those listed in the above at Family Tree.

They list: Hans Ahlf and Angie

In the marriage record her parents are listed as Tonjes Ahlf and Anccke Kroeger

I can see how he might change his name to Hans to make it easier for Amercians to pronounce and even Angie from Anccke, but those have made it impossible to search for the Ahlf or Kroeger family until I found this a week ago.  Now I believe I will have a chance to find the Ahlf and Kroeger family lines beacuse I found the actual record and was able to verify NEW and DIFFERENT information tahn that of the Family Tree.

Do you all think I am being overly cautious?  Shoudl I just accept what is written at Family Tree?  I dont want to.  I WANT TO KNOW MORE.  I want to verify it, learn of their occupation, life, location in Germany, I want to be sure this information at Family Tree is the right information.

Am I being picky?

[Homer Ficken]

Homer, Thank you for your input and efforts as well.   I will have to review the ship record you mention.  Can you tell me your method to use in finding it so quickly?

I have a subscription to Ancestry, and they have images of most extant passenger lists online and searchable.  But they also have many transcription errors in their index, and as a crosscheck I often use the free Castle Garden site (Ellis Island predecessor): http://www.castlegarden.org/searcher.php  

(e.g. regarding the second passenger list I attached, Ancestry has Claus indexed as "Clara"!)

[Jane C]

Hi Ron -

You write: "I have much of this data from the database." Are you saying you had seen those two family trees previously? The links I posted were not news to you?

"Do you all think I am being overly cautious?" No.

"Should I just accept what is written at Family Tree?" No!!

[Ronald Nielson]

Homer, I also have a subscription at Ancestry and much of my tree is located there under the Nielson FamilyTree.  I am just not as skilled as you are at getting to the right record or information.  I must try to keep using it to learn more.  I have also seen the list from Ellis Island (Castle) but when I was looking for the Rasmussen line I thought I had found a German site that was for Hamburg.  I found the Jens Rasmusen through that listing, do any of you use a German language site with records of departures from Hamburg?  I can't remember the place.

Jane, Yes, I have the membership through Ancestry and so I had seen the link before.  I am not sure I know how to use it very well, I have not seen photos through the site that you mentioned.  I am not sure how to order the MF for my local use.  Maybe if I do that it will be the original record and I can review it myself?  Is that how it works?  I guess I thought that I would be able to find the original Kirkeboger somewhere online so that is why I asked here.  But, if that is not possbile I will have to find another way to view the original records.

I think Eva had said the address in Meldorf, so are there records I can order from there to help me?  Are there any other locations to obtain original copies of other records?

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Ronald,

it is not so easy to do family research in Germany as in the Scandinavian countries. Not many records are on-line and their rules for giving information are quite strict. Usually you need a professional researcher if you don't know exactly what you are looking for, i.e. exact dates and names.

Eva M

[Homer Ficken]

Homer, I also have a subscription at Ancestry and much of my tree is located there under the Nielson FamilyTree.  I am just not as skilled as you are at getting to the right record or information.  I must try to keep using it to learn more.  I have also seen the list from Ellis Island (Castle) but when I was looking for the Rasmussen line I thought I had found a German site that was for Hamburg.  I found the Jens Rasmusen through that listing, do any of you use a German language site with records of departures from Hamburg?  I can't remember the place.

It's important to use wild cards when you search Ancestry, because of spelling and indexing errors.

And there are Hamburg departure lists and indexes on Ancestry.

[Jane C]

Ah Ron - so when you said you had "found some information in a database," what you next posted was  not that information (in total). What you found was "a family tree on Ancestry.com for Peter Gehrt Tagge." What a difference. Arghh.

So great that Homer and Eva and Inger are on the job - I'll keep reading to learn more about their advice! : D

[Ronald Nielson]

Well, I will keep posting if I find other methods to get information as it might help others.

Eva, well I may have to hire someone, but I think they allow to people come and view the documents in person?  If so, I am coming back to Germany in two years and so I will prepare for my search when I arrive in 2013.

I do have a lot of information about a few villages that they were from, so maybe that will help me.

Homer, I will read up about the wildcards, I bet that is not helping me as I haven't ever used them.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Ronald,

I don't know about this church archive if you are allowed to search on your own. I have heard that you are not always allowed to look for yourself in the church books.
Best of luck!

Eva M

[Inger Buchard]

Eva writes:
I don't know about this church archive if you are allowed to search on your own

My experience from visits in church book archives in Schleswig-Holstein: very different: sometimes you get access to the microfilms/microfiches, sometimes you can look into the original church book. The copy quality ist fine, so the difference is none.

What certainly is important: mostly I've met name indexes that made the search very easy.
But: if you overview the costs (fuel, hotel, fees for using the archive) it seems to me that it is cheaper to let the archive do the work, and I would journey around in the landscape looking at museums and visiting relevant local archives in the hope to find people with some knowledge about rural history.

Inger

[Ronald Nielson]

Eva, thank you again.  I will write to Meldorf to better understand their policies.

Inger, I appreciate your input as well.  I thank you for the report about the quality.  I am hopeful to see the microfilm or copy, or book myself.  Though the name indexes are not working well for me, it may be because I am not searching correctly at this time.  After more time I may learn to do that better.

And to ALL.  I am just wanting to learn about my family history, their lives, their experiences, children, small pox, occupation, divorce or death, hardship, struggles, love, joy.  Those are things that I want to find.  FIND MYSELF, if possible.  I want to get to better understand where I came from.  The culture, experience I can get from looking into the documents, struggling witht he writting, the language, finding the documents, makes me feel rewarded. 

I am also so very appreciative that you have taken the time to help me already.  More than any vacation, more than any tour, I want to stand where they did, I want to see a today that may have looked only a bit the same 200 years ago, maybe 300 years.

Tak fordi du hjælper mig. Venligst fortsætte, hvis du vil. Jeg er her for at lære, og at dele mine erfaringer med andre, hvis jeg kan hjælpe.

[matthias lassen]

Hi !

I saw the information about Meldorf -
well, unfortunately they changed the organisation and adresses in Dithmarschen:
It is now:
Kirchenkreisarchiv Dithmarschen - Kirchenbuchamt
Nordermarkt 8
25704 Meldorf
Tel.: 04832 / 972 - 0 oder - 337 (Herr Voss)
E-Mail: ahnenforschung.kksd@nordelbien.de
Sachbearbeiter: Herr Voss

But good luck anyway !

matthias lassen

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Ronald,

I have researched my mother's side of the family by using the Family History Center and renting the microfilmed records from Germany.  It is well worth while and cheaper than hiring a professional genealogist.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Inger G. Rasmussen]

I have found some Tagge on a german site: rootdigger.de

Greetings

Inger G. Rasmussen

Tagge, Carl Hermann
* 1851

Accused (in 1887) of leaving the country without a permit for emigration and of not showing for military service.
Reserve soldier.
USA
Tagge, Claus Jacob
* 1856
Accused (in 1877 or before) of illegal emigration or of not showing for military service. Still wanted in 1878. Farmer.
USA
Tagge, Hermann
* 1867
19 Jan.
sof Claus Jacob ¥ Telsche née Witt.
Accused (in 1890) of not showing for military service and of leaving the country without the required permit.
USA
Tagge, Johann Matthias
* 1850
23 May
Accused (in 1872) of not showing for military service and of leaving the country without the required permit.
USA
Tagge, Juergen Jacob
* 1843
sof Johann Peter. From the Dithmarschen district.
A brother in Davenport, since about 1863.




Permission for emigration was granted in 1868.
USA
Tagge, Peter Gehrt
* 1848
Accused of not showing for military service and of leaving the country without the required permit, after 1866.
???
Tagge, Peter Nicolaus

Husband of Ritscher, Catharina Magdalena.
They lived in Davenport (1877).
USA