Looking for birth/burial place. Will be traveling to Denmark in September

[Lora Newton]

Hello!

My great great Grandfather, Carl Marinus Bruun, born August 16, 1873.  He came to America in his 20's I believe.   I believe his mother's name was Keirston Marie Elizabeth Henrietta Neilson.   (very long name! and not sure I am spelling it right)  I believe they were from Gauerslund, Borkop, but not for certain. 

Anyone know how I can find a birth record for Carl that would tell me for certain where he is from and the name of both his parents. And maybe a death record for his mother Keirston Neilson that would show where she is buried.  I would like to visit her burial site while I'm there. 

Thank you!

[Inger Toudal]

Carl Marinus Bruun, born 16 Aug 1873, baptized in the church 12 Oct.
Parents: Tenant and invalid Christian Bruun and wife Caroline Birch (40 y) of Børkop.

The church record can be seen at www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger:
Amt: Vejle - Herred: Holmans - Sogn: Gaverslund - 1864-1891, opslag [image] 37, # 21.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Lissa Pedersen]

The family is here in the 1880 census (from www.ddd.dda.dk - also in English):

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, , , Prindsensgade nr. 28 Bagbygning, 1278, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Christian Bruun 39  Gift (married) Invalid, forhenv. Arbejdsmd. (ex laborer), Husfader (house father) Fredericia (born in Fredericia)
Karoline Bruun f. Birch 46  Gift hans Kone (his wife), Husmoder (house mother)  Kallundborg (born in Kalundborg)
Peter Svend Bruun 12  Ugift deres Søn  Fredericia
Ane Margrethe Elisabeth Bruun 8  Ugift deres Datter  do [Fredericia]
Carl Marinus Bruun 6  Ugift (unmarried) deres Søn (their son)  ?? S. Vejle Amt (amt = county)

sogn = parish
herred = district
amt = county

Use this website for finding place names: www.krabsen.dk

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

This could be the father Christian Bruun:

vejle, Brusk, Herslev, Herslef bye, , Et huus, 16, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Daniel Bruun 30  Gift  Uhrmager (watchmaker) Assens i Fyen
Olympia Bruun 39  Gift  Uhrmager Assens i Fyen
Jacob Bruun 10  Gift  Deres barn Odense
Issak Bruun 6  Ugift  Deres barn Odense
Christian Bruun 4  Ugift  Deres barn Heri sognet (born in the parish)

vejle, Brusk, Herslev, Herslef Bye, , 9, et Huus, 9-F1, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Hans Bruun 34  Gift  Uhrmager og Huusfader Odense Amt, Assens
Olympia Bruun 36  Gift  Hans Kone Fredericia
Ferdinand Bruun 11  Ugift  Deres Børn Her i Sognet
Christian Bruun 8  Ugift  Deres Børn Her i Sognet
Marie Bruun 1  Ugift  Deres Børn Her i Sognet

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

Could be that this is the watchmaker on several pages: http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=53137&sort=f

Lissa

[Lora Newton]

Thank you so much for this information!  I see now that your information is correct and my notes are incorrect.  I will look into it further and let you know if I need more. 

THanks so much!

[Lissa Pedersen]

Chekc this out: http://www.kinquest.com/genealogy/families/petersen/fam00159.htm

Lissa

[Mette Lund]

Here is a thread from the old DIS-Denmark site with information about Christian Bruun:

http://www.dis-danmark.dk/forum/read.php?1,13104,13104

His parents are mentioned here and his death (May 27, 1890, Fredericia Trinitatis).

Mette

[Inger Toudal]

According to the 1880 census, Carl Marinus' father Christian Bruun was born in Fredericia,
so this is probably the right family:

Vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Slesvigsgade, , 581.3, FT-1845, B7984
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Svend Jespersen Bruun   59    Gift      Dagleier [day laborer]   Fredericia
Ane Magrette   37    Gift      Hans kone   Fredericia
Gierto Marie Bruun   12    Ugift      Deres barn   Fredericia
Nels Bruun   10    Ugift      Deres barn   Fredericia
Rasmus Bruun   7    Ugift      Deres barn   Fredericia
Christian Bruun   4    Ugift      Deres barn   Fredericia
Thrine Kiersten Bruun   1    Ugift      Deres barn   Fredericia

Vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Fredericia, Slesvigsgade, Vestre side, No. 580 L b, 484-F2, FT-1850, C3833
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Ane Magrete Littie   38    Enke [widow]      Arbeidskone [labor woman], Huusmoder   Frederits
Gertru Marie Brun   17    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits
Nels Brun   15    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits
Rasmus Brun   13    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits
Christian Brun   10    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits
Stine Brun   7    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits
Ane Brun   3    Ugift      hendes Børn   Frederits

Inger T.

[Lissa Pedersen]

Please ignore my 1845 and 1850 censuses and more about that family!!!

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

More from Lisa Petersen's website: http://www.kinquest.com/genealogy/families/petersen/fam00085.htm

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

Inger, could you check Sejerø parish 1814-1845, opslag No. 120. Could be that this is the Caroline Andreasdatter born 21 Aug 1833 - the father is Andreas Birch - mother Ane Cathrine Andersdatter. This Caroline is also found in censuses on Sejerø, could you check that too ... it's a bit strange with her among siblings with another lastname!! This would fit with her lastnames Andreasdatter Birch!? Cannot the text under parents!!

holbaek, Skippinge, Sejerø, Kongstrup, , et Huus, 91, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Anders Pedersen 61  Gift  Aftægtsmand.  
Marie Frederichsdatter 69  Gift  hans Kone  
Ane Katrine Andersdatter 28  Ugift  deres Datter, lever af Haandarbeide.  
Karoline Andreasdatter 1  Ugift  hendes Barn

holbaek, Skippinge, Sejerø, Kongstrup, , 15, et Huus, 89, FT-1840
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Søren Pedersen 35  gift  Huusmand, Arbeidsmand, Dagleier.  
Ane Kathrine Andersdatter 35  gift  hans Kone  
Karen Sørensdatter 12  ugift  deres Barn!!  
Jørgen Sørensen 9  ugift  deres Barn!!  
Karoline Andreasdatter 7  ugift  deres Barn!!  
Benthe Sørensdatter 7  ugift  deres Barn!!  
Elen Marie Sørensdatter 3  ugift  deres Barn

holbaek, Skippinge, Sejerø, Kongstrup By., , et Huus, 7, FT-1845 Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Søren Pedersen 40  gift  Huusmand og Dagleier. Seierøe
Ane Kathrine Andersdatter 40  gift  hans Kone. Seierøe
Jørgen Sørensen 14  ugift  deres Barn!! Seierøe
Caroline Andreasdatter 12  ugift  deres Barn!! Seierøe
Benthe Sørensdatter 12  ugift  deres Barn!! Seierøe
Ellen Marie Sørensdatter 8  ugift  deres Barn. Seierøe
Ane Ingeborg Sørensdatter 5  ugift  deres Barn. Seierøe

Lissa

[Inger Toudal]

In the thread from 10 years ago, Lisa Petersen is looking for descendants of Christian Bruun !!

Lissa, I think you found the birth of Carl Marinus' mother. Bravo! The alleged father is clerk Andreas Birch, temporarily staying with herredsfoged Berner in Nykøbing Sjælland. This must be him:

Holbæk, Ods, Nykøbing Sjælland Købstad, Nykiøbing kiøbstad, Ahlgaden, 23, FT-1834, C3346
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      
Johanne Constantine Stage   37    Enke      Krigsassessor byefoged og birkedommer Berners enke   
Freund?? [Freuod??] Jacob Gotlob Berner   10    Ugift      Hendes børn   
Poul Christian Henrik August Berner   8    Ugift      Hendes børn   
Ane Hansdatter   21    Ugift      Tjenestepige   
Lorentz Frederik Wilhelm Jensen   24    Ugift      Exam.jur., fuldmægtig, logerende   
Andreas Berch   22    Ugift      Contorsbetjent, logerende

At Caroline Andreasdatter's confirmation (Holbæk, Skippinge, Sejrø 1845-1865, opslag 77) it's noted that Søren Pedersen is her foster father.

Lora, look up this map http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kort.htm and click on Holbæk amt [county] to see Sejerø  

Inger T.

[Mette Lund]

Old links about Carl Marinus:

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.braun/291/mb.ashx

http://genforum.genealogy.com/bruun/messages/3.html

I haven't been able to verify any of the information about the Norwegian daughter, the marriage and birth of twin daughters in Denmark efter 1896. I looked in Gaverslund for the mentioned twin daughters who should have been born after 1896 and before 1901 but didn't find them.

Mette

[Lissa Pedersen]

Great Inger ... and now good night!!

Lissa

[Lora Newton]

wow!  you ladies work so fast!   Thanks for all the great information!  I'm going through it all now.  I think I will be able to locate the church where they are buried based on all this information. 

Many thanks again!
Lora

[David Peterson]

Lora:

Just in case you are unaware of Danish burial practices (not just Danish, but in many of the European countries)...and to set expectations...

Because of space and other considerations, nowadays you will usually find "family burial plots" in parish church cemeteries.  Depending upon the family, earlier remains may be removed to make way for newer burials. If a family chooses not to maintain a family plot at all, then the parish may also remove remains to make way for newer burials.  What that means is that you may go to a cemetery expecting to find many, many decades of family graves, but you will only find the more recent ones. The circumstances vary a lot, but in the small parish cemeteries I have visited, there were only a handful of graves older than 60-70 years.

David Peterson

[Lora Newton]

Also, I'm curious to know if there is any information regarding Carl Bruun's wife, Christina (referenced as Carl's 3rd wife in one of the links above)  It is unknown to my family whether they were married in Denmark, or on the boat when they came to America.  I have not been able to find her surname.  It has been said in our family  that she was from a wealthy noble family, but when she married Carl (beneath her class)  she was rejected from her family.  I would also be interested in finding her parents names and birth and death information to possibly locate their burial site as well.  

Thank you!
Lora

[Lora Newton]

David,

Thank you so much for this information!!  very good to know.  I have sent an email to the church where I believe they are buried.  Hopefully they can give me information before I arrive.  I have limited time while I'm there so I want to make sure I don't end up in the wrong spot!

So tell me about the family burial plots.  I've never heard of this.  Do they remove and gather the remains and put them all together in one spot? 

[Lora Newton]

I just answered my own question..found it in my chicken scratch notes from a conversation I had with a distant family member.   Carl's 3rd wife was Kirsten Marie Henriette Elisabeth Nielsen, born Aug 16, 1884

which is the name I gave at the beginning of this thread.  So I now am searching for her family information. 

I also find it odd that Carl and Kirsten were both born on Aug 16, could be error, but its been known to happen

[David Peterson]

Lora:
I don't think I can speak to every possible circumstance and practice.

I don't think that "durable" caskets are generally used, or that cremation has become more common.  At any rate, there is nothing left to move after 25 years or so.  Before that, yes I do believe that any remains are moved to a common grave area.

If the family chooses to maintain a plot (or pay the local caretaker to do so), then it is up to them on what schedule and to what degree this happens.  

You will find that Danish cemeteries are exceptionally well-cared-for and beautiful.  Whether the actual remains are still there or not (mostly not, no matter what we do!), it is still a satisfying experience to go there and feel you are in the place where your family once walked.  One time I remember someone commenting that it was not necessary for there to be an actual gravestone for that person to be remembered: care was taken to record the passing in the church books.  Perhaps the gravestones are more necessary in the US where there was a very poor tradition of keeping burial records in past centuries!  And with so many old US cemeteries in poor condition, even a stone is no guarantee of any permanent remembrance...

Anyways, since you had expressed interest in visiting a burial site, I thought maybe you needed to be aware of the differing practices.  I was surprised too when I first encountered it, but since then, I have made many pleasant visits to the cemeteries in Denmark where my ancestors were buried.

David Peterson

[Lora Newton]

Very interesting information.  Thank you.  3 years ago I went back to where my father's ancestors were from in England. (Denmark is where my mother's family is from) They came to America in late 1600's.  I visited many cemeteries while I was there and while I never found anyone that I knew for sure was a direct ancestor, it was a very amazing feeling to just be on the ground!  I spent hours taking pictures of headstones and visiting churches.

That said, yes I am very much looking forward to just exploring the town they were from.  It would be a bonus to find a headstone of a direct ancestor!

[Inger Toudal]

Re burial practise in Denmark: You have to wait 20 years (casket) or 10 years (urn) after a burial, before burying another person in exactly the same place. If the family burial plot is large enough, burials may take place with shorter intervals.

I think this could be Carl Marinus Bruun in 1890:

Vejle, Elbo, Taulov, Taulov By, Et Hus, 18, FT-1890, C4074
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Georg Thomsen   26    Gift   Husfader   Slagter   Fredericia
Maren Nielsen   26    Gift   Husmoder      Viuf sogn, Vejle amt
Karl Bruun   16    Ugift   Tyende [servant]   Slagterdreng [butcher boy]*   Fredericia
* he probably later became an apprentice

Taulov parish is just south of Fredericia, where the family lived at the 1880 census, and where his father was buried in 1890. If it's him, the birth place is not correct, but that's not unusual in censuses, especially when the person had moved away from the birth parish at a very young age.

The 1890 census for Fredericia, and the the 1901 census for Fredericia and surrounding parishes have not yet been indexed, so it's not possible to check if he's there.

Inger T.

[Lora Newton]

Yes, Inger, I do believe that is him as well.  There are notes in my family books about him being a butcher.  I am wondering if the Maren Neilsen listed in that household was related to the Kirsten Neilsen that he married.  Karl came to America in 1901 so i'm not sure he would be listed on the census anyway. 

Many Thanks Again!!

[Lora Newton]

The family is here in the 1880 census (from www.ddd.dda.dk - also in English):

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, , , Prindsensgade nr. 28 Bagbygning, 1278, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Christian Bruun 39  Gift (married) Invalid, forhenv. Arbejdsmd. (ex laborer), Husfader (house father) Fredericia (born in Fredericia)
Karoline Bruun f. Birch 46  Gift hans Kone (his wife), Husmoder (house mother)  Kallundborg (born in Kalundborg)
Peter Svend Bruun 12  Ugift deres Søn  Fredericia
Ane Margrethe Elisabeth Bruun 8  Ugift deres Datter  do [Fredericia]
Carl Marinus Bruun 6  Ugift (unmarried) deres Søn (their son)  ?? S. Vejle Amt (amt = county)

sogn = parish
herred = district
amt = county

Use this website for finding place names: www.krabsen.dk

Lissa

Im wondering if it is possible to locate the address of this house on a current map.  I tried using google but it isn't finding anything.  I know that over the years its possible that houses are torn down and streets moved, etc....but is there any way of finding out its general location?    Also, what is the 1278 number in the census?

[Lora Newton]

I found it!  Sorry! 

[Lissa Pedersen]

Good - so you found Prinsensgade - the old name was Prindsensgade.

Lissa