Help Finding Emma Nicoline Hartmann

[aileen young]

I need help with finding the niece of my great grand father,
Emma Nicoline Hartmann born 3 August 1884 in Helsingor,Frederiksborg,Denmark, to parents William August Edward Hartmann and Emma Nicoline Holm.

Emma's mother died 9 January 1886 Helsingor,

Have found her father in the 1890 census listed as a blind brush maker, only one of brothers is listed 13yr old Niels Holger.

Emma's father died 20 December 1893 in Helsingor,

Her eldst two brothers joined the Mormon Movement and with their families emmigrated to Salt Lake City USA in the early 1900's she is not listed among the children.

I have found with the wonderful help of Dis-Danmark researchers her other two brothers married and working in Kobenhavn in the early 1900's.

Emma is not with her father sister as his brother in law was a witness as I have been able to find their census.
The reseachers on Dis -Danmark were able to find the census for her brothers in Kobenhavn.
Niels Holger Hartmann in 1906,1911,1916.census
William August Edward Hartmann in 1906 Kobenhavn census
No children were listed for either families, as I seem  not to be able to bring up the census for my Hartmann families in the english part of the census.

Could Emma have been put in an Orphanage with her brother William ?and adopated.

Any help would be wonderful
Aileen

[Mette R Francke]

Hi

William August Edward Hartmann
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2408148&backside=1&searchname=polit_adv


Holger Niels Hartmann , 3-8-1877
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=89444&backside=1&searchname=polit_adv

Mette

[Jane C]

So this is the family of Emma Nicoline Hartmann born 03 August 1884:

1880
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, Sct. Annagaden, Stuen Matr. 92, 28, FT-1880, C4988
William August Eduart Hartmann 38 Gift Børstenbinder, Husfader Helsingør
Emma Nicoline Hartmann 33 Gift Husmoder Helsingør (DIED 1886)
Gotfred William Arenholdt Hartmann 7 Ugift Søn Helsingør
Emilius Carl Frederik Hartmann 5 Ugift Søn Helsingør
Niels Holker Hartmann 2 Ugift Søn Helsingør
Johannes Wilhelm Holm 25 Ugift Hustømmer, Slægtning Helsingør (might be Emma's uncle)
Theodor Lauritz Gotlib Sørensen 46 Ugift Børstenbindersvend København


1881 William August Edvard Hartmann born

1884 Emma Nicoline Hartmann born

1890
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, St. Annagade, , 28, FT-1890, C4989
Villiam Edvard August Hartmann 49 Enkemand Husfader Børstenbinder Helsingør (Died 1893)
Niels Holger Hartmann 13 Ugift Barn Helsingør
Marie Petersson 50 Ugift Husholderske Sverige
Inger Marie Olsen 59 Ugift Logerende Handelskone Helsingør
Christian Møller Larsen 66 Fraskilt Logerende Skibstømmer Læssø


You wrote: "Her eldst two brothers joined the Mormon Movement and with their families emmigrated to Salt Lake City USA in the early 1900s." So was this...
* Gotfred William Arenholdt Hartmann (born about 1873)
* Emilius Carl Frederik Hartmann (born about 1875)
Might help if you would post the US census and immigration records for them, and/or family names, dates, and specific places, the names they used in the USA, etc. This will help the forum to search near them.

You wrote: "Her other two brothers married and [were] working in Kobenhavn in the early 1900s."  So that would be
* Niels Holger Hartman born 03 August 1877 (married Emma Josefine Marie b 1869)
* William August Edvard Hartmann born 23 May 1880 in Helsingør (married Caroline Amalie b 1881)

Another place to look for Emma is with the parents and siblings of Emma's father and mother. Same information for them would be helpful.

Of course you've tried searching with all these helps, but perhaps someone in the forum will get lucky. "Another pair of eyes...."

: D
 

[aileen young]

Thank you Mette and Jane.

I have taken your advice and found Emma Nicoline Hartmann born Holm family to see if they had taken her daughter Emma Nicoline Hartmann.

Found she had 4 sisters and a brother
In Helsingor Census 1855 and 1860
In Helsingor Census 1880 Her father Emilius Olsen Holm Enkemand was living with his eldest daughter Mathilde Juliane Emilie Petersen born Holm no Emma is listed among the children
Emma's brother Johannes Vilhelm Holm in the 1880 Helsingor Census is listed as living with her unmarried.
I have not been able to find her other 3 sisters, Ida, Louise Katrine, and Sophie Magrette,
Have not found her mother's death which would be between 1860-1880.
Her father death is 28 June 1893.

It seems I have come to a stop where Emma Nicoline Hartmann is conserned.

Aileen

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Emma Nicoline died June 9, 1886. You find the entry in Helsingoer, Sct Mariae, image 30 1886-1891.
I think the cause of death is consumption. There is a probate dated 30 June 1886.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Sorry I made a mistake. I found the death of the mother. I didn't notice the age.

Eva M

[Jane C]

It was kind of you to search Eva. Besides, it was necessary to search for deaths, because perhaps the little girl died (Emma Nicoline Hartmann born 03 August 1884), since she has not been found. It seems no one has found her death record.

Another idea was that the little girl could be with the family of her mother, Emma Nicoline Holm. Below is what Aileen has found.

Emma Nicoline Holm's mother is dead before 1880.
Emma's FATHER:
Emilius Olsen Holm 63 widower in 1880, Skibstømmer, Slægtning København  (DIED 1893)

Emma's SIBLINGS:
Mathilde Juliane Emilie Holm (married Petersen) born about 1841
Ida Holm born about 1843
Emma Nicoline Holm born about 1847
Johannes Vilhelm Holm born about 1854
Louise Katrine Holm born about 1856
Sophie Magrette Holm born about 1859

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RECORDS

1855
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, , No. 530, 1392, FT-1855, B7603
Emilius Holm 38 Gift Skibstømrer hos Løwe, huuusfader København
Cathrine Født Schou 35 Gift Hans kone Helsingør
Mathilde Holm 14 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Ida Holm 12 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Emma Holm 9 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Johannes Holm 1 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Cathrine Nielsen 52 Ugift Understøttes af fattigvæsenet København


1860
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, Helsingør Købstad, Bjergegade 218, Forhus, 1.sal - Ejes af Høker N. Nielsen, 188 - F3, FT-1860, D5383
Emil Holm 44 Gift Skibstømrersvend København (DIED 1893)
Cathrine Holm, f. Schou 41 Gift Hans Kone Helsingør
Emma Holm 14 Ugift Deres Barn Helsingør
Johanne Holm 5 Ugift Deres Barn Helsingør
Louise Holm 4 Ugift Deres Barn Helsingør
Sophie Holm 1 Ugift Deres Barn Helsingør
Peter Christian Olsen 28 Ugift Smedesvend Frederiksværk

1880
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, Strandgade, Stuen Matr. 528, 15, FT-1880, C4988
Hendrik Laurits Petersen 46 Gift Fisker, Husfader Snedkersteen
Mathilde Juliane Emilie Petersen F. Holm 39 Gift Husmoder Helsingør
Haraldine Julie Petersen 20 Ugift Datter Helsingør Frederikke
Catrine Petersen 19 Ugift Datter Helsingør
Carl Wilhelm Petersen 18 Ugift Tømmerlære Helsingør
Adolph Petersen 16 Ugift Fisker Helsingør
Emil Peter Petersen 13 Ugift Barn Helsingør
Alma Andrea Petersen 10 Ugift Barn Helsingør
Svend Lauritz Petersen 7 Ugift Barn Helsingør
Arnold Hendrik Petersen 4 Ugift Barn Helsingør
Emilius Olsen Holm 63 Enkemand Skibstømmer, Slægtning København  (DIED 1893)


1880 census in Helsingør Købstad, posted above, Emma and brother Johannes Holm

[Jane C]

Since Emma Nicoline Holm died 1886, it would be after 1886 probably that Emma Nicoline Hartmann might be a foster child with another family.

However, in 1890, when little Emma is not with her father, we can see that her father has a maid and only one child living with him. Little Emma would be about 6 years old. It seems she could be with her father if she is living, as he has help. Maybe it is a sign that little Emma died?

---------------------------------------
1885
København, København (Staden), Valdemarsgade (Ulige numre), Kjøbenhavn Udenbys Vester Kvarter, Valdemarsgade 53,Matr.488 3.Sal, 8, FT-1885, C5161
Johannes Wilhelm Holm 30 Gift Husfader Hustømrer Helsingør
Jenssine Holm 28 Gift Husmoder Frederiksborg

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I looked at the probate of the father from Jan. 18, 1894.

You find it under Andre Arkivalier: Skiftearkivalier on AO

Byfoged Frederiksborg Helsingør byfoged Skifteprotokol 1886-1894  image 424

William A. E. Hartmann seems to have received some support from the Council of Helsingoer, so he was no doubt poor. Maybe the Council has put the little girl in fostercare somewhere. The name of the son Emilius C.F. H. is mentioned since he is the one stating the assets of the probate.

Eva M

[Jane C]

Ah! So it well could be the little girl is alive in 1890.

Here is a start at finding her brothers in USA, in case we can find her with them:

1940 CENSUS
Ogden, Weber, Utah
225 25th Street
George Hoag 60 b Indiana, residence 1935 same place
Godfray W Hartman 68 born about 1872 in Denmark; single; lodger; naturalized citizen; occupation None. Godfray's residence in 1935: Brigham City, Box Elder, Utah
(answer to a question on the 1940 census)


BURIAL
Godfrey H. Hartman
Born 01 March 1872, Helsingor, Denmark
Died 23 December 1951 Ogden, Utah, USA
buried Brigham City Cemetery, Brigham City, Box Elder, Utah


1940 CENSUS  -  (wife of Emelius Carl F Hartman)
Harrisville, Weber, Utah
Nathan Ogden Highway 91
Victoria Hartman 67 born about 1873 in Denmark, widowed, living on a farm
Faunt Hartman 21 son
Residence in 1935: Same House


BURIAL
Emelius Carl F. Hartman
Born 12 January 1875 Elsinore, Denmark
Died 30 July 1938 Ogden, Utah
Father: William Hartman
Mother: Emma Nicoline
Buried next to Victoria B. Hartman b 1872; Agda Hartman 1904; Henry Rudolph Hartman b 1906; Una Virginia b 1909; Faunt LeRoy Hartman
Burial: Brigham City Cemetery, Brigham City, Box Elder, Ugah
http://www.namesinstone.com/ViewMap.aspx?externalGraveId=10_94BCC10590&cemeteryId=133


BURIAL
Victoria B. Hartman
16 April 1872 Helsingor Denmark
Died 14 February 1950 Ogden, Utah
http://www.namesinstone.com/Search.aspx

[Jane C]

A discussion in 2010 of this family:
http://www.dis-danmark.dk/forum/read.php?7,674658,674744

1850
Frederiksborg, Lynge-Kronborg, Helsingør Købstad, Brøndstræde, 1Hus, 298, FT-1850, C6046
------
Emilie Schou 41 Ugift Hendes datter Helsingør
Pouline Schou 39 Ugift Hendes datter Helsingør
William Schou 34 Ugift Hendes søn Helsingør
Andrea Schou 31 Ugift Hendes datter Helsingør
Emma Schou 30 Ugift Hendes datter Helsingør
Lauritz Schou 28 Ugift Hendes søn Helsingør
Emilius Holm 34 Gift Skibstømrer København
Trine Schou 31 Gift Hans hustru Helsingør [= Cathrine]
Mathilde Holm 10 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Ida Holm 7 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Emma Holm 4 Ugift Deres barn Helsingør
Peter Sørensen 25 Ugift Logerende Hellebæk, Frb. Amt

[aileen young]

Thank you Eva and Jane for all the new information with the census on the Holm family and the probates, it is a shame they didn't list the names of the children on Williams.

If I could find William August Edward the youngest son born in 1880, is not listed with his father and brother Niels Holger in the 1890 census, Emma could have been sent with him.

I had not been able to find him in any census until I found him on the politietsregisterblade.dk working and married in Kobenhavn, I haven't been able to bring him up in the 1916 or 1921 census.

I will go back and search the church records again for her death.

Emma was not taken by her fathers siblings as I have all their information .

Williams' eldest brother
Carl Frederik Hartmann was a master stonemason in Kobenhavn,wife Laura Andrea Camilla Petersen, no children of their own Adopted a Son Edvard Johan.

Sister Emma Ottoine married August Vilhelm Schopzinsky a soldier stationed in Helsingor had two daughters and one son born in Helsingor , the daughters died in Helsingor of Diptheria , a younger son was born in Kobenhavn, Emma and August both died in Kobenhavn.

Brother Jens ( my great grandfather) emigrated to Australia in 1859.

Aileen