Very confused about birth and death of Anna Nielsdatter

Startet af Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland, 07 Dec 2023 - 02:20

Forrige emne - Næste emne
Hello,

Anna Nielsdatter was apparently born 11 Sep 1796 in either Vester Bjerregrav, Rinds, Viborg or Hersom, Rinds, Viborg.  I could not find a record in either parish.

The information that I have collected is as follows (and is confusing):
-Her name from an Ancestry hint was Anna Nielsdatter Sørensdatter which makes no sense given the usage of patronymics.  The curious thing is that a Søren Storup was a groomsman to her marriage.

-Another hint gave her death information as 23 Feb 1873 (the hint actually had Skravadgård/Gravlagt Hersom Sogn as the death location).  I am presuming that this should be Ørris, Hersom, Rinds, Viborg, Denmark since this is where her husband died but I could find no death record for her from 1860 through 1878 (when her husband died a widow).

-Her confirmation is apparently in 1815 in Hersom and supports the 11 Sep 1796 birth but when I look at this record it looks like it says Anna Kielsdatter and I cannot make out the name of a father nor can I decipher the name of the mother.  Confirmation here #3 on the far right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362071#362071,70559222

She married Anders Jensen 3 May 1816 in Hersom, Rinds, Viborg, Denmark here #1: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362065#362065,70559123

Death Anders Jensen here 10 Sep 1878 record #4 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362094#362094,70559585

Year:   FT-1845   Source reference:   50   
Parish:   Hersom   District:   Rinds
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Hersom
Source entry No:   B2450   Record No.:   174

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Anders Jensen     53     Gift          Gaardmand     Heri sognet 
Ane Nielsdatter     47     Gift          Hans kone     Heri sognet 
Jens Andersen     24     Ugift          Deres børn     Heri sognet 
Ane Marie Andersen     12     Ugift          Deres børn     Heri sognet 
Else Andersen     10     Ugift          Deres børn     Heri sognet 
Hans Andersen     8     Ugift          Deres børn     Heri sognet 
Karen Andersen     5     Ugift          Deres børn     Heri sognet 
Jens Christian Jensen     3     Ugift          Pleiebarn     Heri sognet

Year:   FT-1850   Source reference:   162   
Parish:   Hersom   District:   Rinds
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Hvolriis
Source entry No:   C2881   Record No.:   240

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Anders Jensen     58     Gift          Gaardmand og huusfader     Heri sognet, Hersom 
Ane Nielsdatter     54     Gift          hans kone     Heri sognet, Hersom 
Jens Andersen     29     Ugift          deres børn     Heri sognet, Hersom 
Hans Andersen     13     Ugift          deres børn     Heri sognet, Hersom 
Karen Andersdatter     10     Ugift          deres børn     Heri sognet, Hersom 
Jens Christian Jensen     8     Ugift          pleiebarn     Heri sognet, Hersom 

Year:   FT-1860   Source reference:   Optællingsliste side 26   
Cadastre/Address:   En Gaard   
Household No:   47 - F2   
Parish:   Hersom   District:   Rinds
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Hersom Skoledistrikt, Hvolris By
Source entry No:   D6766   Record No.:   269

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Anders Jensen     69     Gift     Aftægtsfolk          Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsen     64     Gift     Aftægtsfolk          Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt

I could not locate the couple in the 1870 Census at all.

I am pulling my hair out over this gal.  Any help is very much appreciated.  :)

Inger Toudal

#1
Jens Andersen who died 10 Sep. 1878 was living with Jens Lausten in Ørris. He is here:

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hersom Skoledistrikt, Ørris By, En Gaard, 22, FT-1860, D6766
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Jens Lausten      41      Gift      Husfader. Gaardmand              Taarup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Johanne Andersen      39      Gift      Hans Kone              Lynderup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      12      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Marie Jensen      10      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Karen Marie Jensen      6      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Christen Sørensen      18      Ugift      Tjenestekarl              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      67      Gift      Aftægtsfolk              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Karen Nielsen      79      Gift      Aftægtsfolk              Bjerregrav Sogn, Viborg Amt 

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Ørris, Gaard, 37, FT-1870, D4036
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Jens Lavesen      50      Gift      husfader      gaardmand og jordbruger      ? 
Hanne Andersdatter      48      Gift      husmoder              ? 
Anders Jensen      76      Gift      aftægtsmand              ? 
Karen Nielsdatter      87      Gift      aftægtskone              ? 
Anders Jensen      21      Ugift      barn              Ørris, Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Marie Jensen      19      Ugift      barn              Ørris, Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Karen Marie Jensen      15      Ugift      barn              Ørris, Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Laustesen      11      Ugift      plejebarn              Gammel? 
Lauritz Christensen      5      Ugift      plejebarn              Vorde, Viborg Amt
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anders Jensen, 74, and Ane Nielsdatter, 70, moved to Hem 25 Jul. 1866:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362086,70559450 - No 4 & 5

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Inger Toudal
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Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal

#2
Ane Nielsdatter died 15 Feb. 1873 at Skravadgaard, Roum parish, 72 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584776#361973,70556801 - No 1

Anders Jensen died 30 Sep. 1886 at Skravadgaard, Roum parish, 91 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584776#361978,70556919 - No 9

But it is not the right couple:

Viborg, Rinds, Roum, Møldrup By, Gaard, 45, FT-1860, C6677
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Anders Jensen     64     Gift      Gaardmand. husfader            Fjeldsø Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsdatter     58     Gift      hans kone            Thostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt
 
Niels Andersen     32     Gift      deres søn. tjener hos faderen            Thostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirstine Nielsdatter     33     Gift      hans kone            Her i Sognet 
Anders Nielsen     4     Ugift      deres barn            Her i Sognet 
Mette Kirstine Olesdatter     35     Ugift      tjenestepige            Her i Sognet

Viborg, Rinds, Roum, Møldrup og Skravad, Skravadgaard, 18, FT-1870, D4042
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Anders Jensen     73     Gift      husfader      gaardejer      Fjeldsø Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsen     67     Gift      husmoder            Tostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt
 
Niels Andersen     41     Gift      søn      gaardbestyrer      Roum, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Nielsen     42     Gift      hans kone            Roum, Viborg Amt 
Anders Nielsen     13     Ugift      sønnesøn            Roum, Viborg Amt 
Kristen Jensen     13     Ugift      tjenestetyende            ? Sogn, Viborg Amt 

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal

#3
It seems that their daughter Ane Marie settled in Hem parish, Randers county:

Randers, Onsild, Hem, Hem By, Huus, 8, FT-1870, E2794
Navn:     Alder:     Status:     Stilling i familien:     Erhverv:     Fødested:
Chresten PEdersen     46     G      Huusfader      Dagleier      Gasum 
Anemarie Andersen     37     G      Huusmoder      Huusbestyrer      Hvolleris 
Anekjerstine Chrestensen     6     U      Barn            Hem 
Ane Chrestensen     5     U      Barn            Hem 
Anemarie Chrestensen     3     U      Barn            Hem 
Anders Peter Chrestensen     0     U      Barn            Hem 
Ane Nielssen     76     U      Familie      Aftægskone      Hvolerits

Randers, Onsild, Hem, Hem By Hem Sogn, et Hus, 17, FT-1880, C6273
Navn:      Alder:      Status:      Stilling i familien:      Erhverv:      Fødested:
Christen Pedersen      54      Gift      Huusfæster              Gassum Gasum Sogn, Randers Amt 
Anemarie Andersen      46      Gift      Hans Hustru              Hvoleris Hersom Sogn, Randers Amt
Ane Pedersen      15      Ugift      deres Barn              Hem, Hem Sogn, Randers Amt 
Anders Peter Pedersen      10      Ugift      deres Barn              Hem, Hem Sogn, Randers Amt 
Hans Christian Pedersen      8      Ugift      deres Barn              Hem, Hem Sogn, Randers Amt 
Pouline Pedersen      4      Ugift      deres Barn              Hem, Hem Sogn, Randers Amt

Daughter Ane Christensdatter, born 12 Nov. 1864:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365383,70635128 - No 6

Son Anders Peter Pedersen, born 1 Dec. 1869:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365379,70635012 - No 10

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal

#4
Anders Jensen died 1 Dec. 1867 in Hem, 76 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365382,70635093 - No 6

1870 Census, Hem: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid22647730

- Source reference: Hovedliste 21

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=52469#52469,11790992 - bottom

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=52469#52469,11790993 - top

Ane Nielsdatter died 7 Nov. 1874 in Hem, 80 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365385,70635208 - No 7

At the confirmatin of Anna in 1815, her father is not mentioned - it's her employer (Hosbonden).

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

I should have mentioned that there are two Anders Jensen.

My Anders Jensen was born 28 May 1792 in Neder Hvolris, Vester Bjerregrav, Rinds, Viborg, Denmark.  His brother, also Anders Jensen, was born 2 Feb 1794 also in Neder Hvolris, Vester Bjerregrav, Rinds, Viborg, Denmark.  They were both on the 1801 Census with their parents and siblings.  Obviously, this complicates the research when two brothers were both living, in 1801, and only born 2 years apart.

Year:   FT-1801   Source reference:   side 5   
Cadastre/Address:   en Bye   
Household No:   3. Familie   
Parish:   Vester Bjerregrav   District:   Rinds
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Neder Haulris
Source entry No:   B8439   Record No.:   118

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:

Jens Andersen     60     Gift     Hosbonde     Bonde og gaardbeboer      
Johanne Andersdatter     45     Gift     Hans Kone           
Anders Jensen     8     -     begges Sønner           
Anders Jensen     7     -     begges Sønner           
Jens Jensen     1     -     begges Sønner           
Doritsee Jensdatter     18     Ugift     Hans Datter      

#6
Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 07 Dec 2023 - 13:38But it is not the right couple:

Viborg, Rinds, Roum, Møldrup By, Gaard, 45, FT-1860, C6677
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Anders Jensen     64     Gift      Gaardmand. husfader            Fjeldsø Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsdatter     58     Gift      hans kone            Thostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt
 
Niels Andersen     32     Gift      deres søn. tjener hos faderen            Thostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirstine Nielsdatter     33     Gift      hans kone            Her i Sognet 
Anders Nielsen     4     Ugift      deres barn            Her i Sognet 
Mette Kirstine Olesdatter     35     Ugift      tjenestepige            Her i Sognet

Viborg, Rinds, Roum, Møldrup og Skravad, Skravadgaard, 18, FT-1870, D4042
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Anders Jensen     73     Gift      husfader      gaardejer      Fjeldsø Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsen     67     Gift      husmoder            Tostrup Sogn, Viborg Amt
 
Niels Andersen     41     Gift      søn      gaardbestyrer      Roum, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Nielsen     42     Gift      hans kone            Roum, Viborg Amt 
Anders Nielsen     13     Ugift      sønnesøn            Roum, Viborg Amt 
Kristen Jensen     13     Ugift      tjenestetyende            ? Sogn, Viborg Amt 

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Inger

Okay, one part of the hint from Ancestry for Anders Jensen had "Birth abt 1796 Fjeldsø Sogn".  Maybe the person who put those hints in was as confused as me.  So, am I back to square one with this couple?  They were consistently 4 years apart in age which seems to be supported by the moving register in 1866 and in the 1834. 1840, 1845 (they are 6 years), 1850, 1855 and 1860 (5 years) Census records.

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 07 Dec 2023 - 12:17Jens Andersen who died 10 Sep. 1878 was living with Jens Lausten in Ørris. He is here:

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hersom Skoledistrikt, Ørris By, En Gaard, 22, FT-1860, D6766
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Jens Lausten      41      Gift      Husfader. Gaardmand              Taarup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Johanne Andersen      39      Gift      Hans Kone              Lynderup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      12      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Kirsten Marie Jensen      10      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Karen Marie Jensen      6      Ugift      Deres Barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Christen Sørensen      18      Ugift      Tjenestekarl              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      67      Gift      Aftægtsfolk              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Karen Nielsen      79      Gift      Aftægtsfolk              Bjerregrav Sogn, Viborg Amt 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anders Jensen, 74, and Ane Nielsdatter, 70, moved to Hem 25 Jul. 1866:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362086,70559450 - No 4 & 5

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Inger Toudal

This couple that you found, Anders Jensen and Karen Nielsdatter had a daughter Johanne Andersdatter the same year that my Anders Jensen and Anna Nielsdatter had a daughter Johanne but my Johanne was born 27 Jan 1819 in Neder Hvolris, Vester Bjerregrav, Rinds, Viborg, Denmark.

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 08 Dec 2023 - 00:04At the confirmatin of Anna in 1815, her father is not mentioned - it's her employer (Hosbonden).

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Inger

Thank you so much Inger.  That all makes so much more sense.  I am still confused at to why she was 19 at her confirmation (a little old compared to most confirmations) and if, as she says on all of the Census documents, she was born in Hvolris, Hersom why I cannot locate a birth record for her.

Inger Toudal

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hvolris, Gaard, 45, FT-1855, D7215
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Jens Andersen      34      G      Gaardmand, huusfader              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ida Petrea Bach      31      G      Hans kone              Laastrup Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Jørgen Jensen      9      U      Deres barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      2      U      Deres barn              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Anders Jensen      63      G      Aftægtsmand              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Ane Nielsdatter      59      G      Aftægtskone              Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt 


Anders Jensen, 74, and Ane Nielsdatter, 70, moved from Hersom parish to Hem 25 Jul. 1866:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362086,70559450 - No 4 & 5

Anders Jensen died 1 Dec. 1867 in Hem, 76 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365382,70635093 - No 6

Randers, Onsild, Hem, Hem By, Huus, 8, FT-1870, E2794
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birthplace:
Chresten PEdersen     46     G      Huusfader      Dagleier      Gasum
Anemarie Andersen     37     G      Huusmoder      Huusbestyrer      Hvolleris   [daughter] 
Anekjerstine Chrestensen     6     U      Barn            Hem
Ane Chrestensen     5     U      Barn            Hem
Anemarie Chrestensen     3     U      Barn            Hem
Anders Peter Chrestensen     0     U      Barn            Hem
Ane Nielssen     76     U      Familie      Aftægskone      Hvolerits

Ane Nielsdatter died 7 Nov. 1874 in Hem, 80 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21585174#365385,70635208 - No 7
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I've found a possible birth record in (Vester) Bjerregrav:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121736#160226,26933360 - left page, bottom

1797 (the ecclesiastical year)

Døbt
? Juuledag blev i Bierregrave Kierke 
Niels(?) Kristensens(?) Datter af Hvolriis(?), nafns
Anne /: som den 10 Novembr tilforn var
hiemdøbt :/ fremstillet til sin Daabs
Publication af ...

- Anne's date of birth is not mentioned. She was baptized at home 10 Nov. 1796.

The parish register is common for Hersom, Klejtrup and (Vester) Bjerregrav:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121736#160226,26933163

Could be (only suggestions):

Viborg, Rinds, Vesterbølle, Gleerup Bye, , 6. Familie, FT-1801, B8449
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation: 
Niels Christensen     37     Gift      Mand      jordløs huusmand gaaer i dagleje       
Kirsten Nielsdatter     34     Gift      Hans Kone             
Anne Nielsdatter     5     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Niels Nielsen     2     Ugift      Deres Børn 

This might be Anna who was confirmed 1815 in Hersom parish:

Viborg, Rinds, Vester Tostrup, Tostrup Bye, , 17, FT-1801, C1089
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation: 
Karen Sørensdatter     46     Enke      Huusmoder      Jordløs Huuskone lever af spind       
Anne Kieldsdatter     5     Ugift      Hendes Datter         

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Thanks Inger.  I am glad I am not the only one who thought the Confirmation record was for an Anne Kielsdatter.

I will look into all of the other information you have so kindly provided.

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 08 Dec 2023 - 17:41________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I've found a possible birth record in (Vester) Bjerregrav:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121736#160226,26933360 - left page, bottom

1797 (the ecclesiastical year)

Døbt
? Juuledag blev i Bierregrave Kierke 
Niels(?) Kristensens(?) Datter af Hvolriis(?), nafns
Anne /: som den 10 Novembr tilforn var
hiemdøbt :/ fremstillet til sin Daabs
Publication af ...

- Anne's date of birth is not mentioned. She was baptized at home 10 Nov. 1796.

Could be (only suggestions):

Viborg, Rinds, Vesterbølle, Gleerup Bye, , 6. Familie, FT-1801, B8449
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Christensen     37     Gift      Mand      jordløs huusmand gaaer i dagleje       
Kirsten Nielsdatter     34     Gift      Hans Kone             
Anne Nielsdatter     5     Ugift      Deres Børn             
Niels Nielsen     2     Ugift      Deres Børn 


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Inger

I have looked at all of the documents and I think this might be her.  The only challenge I have right now is that there are two records for another Anne Nielsdatter that may, or may not, be related to this particular Niels Christensen.

1802 birth records but born 25 Nov 1801 lower right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933377

Another record that I cannot decipher what it is for is for 22 May 1803 top right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933383

They are all in Hvolris but because I cannot decipher the name of the father or the place names I am not sure if these children all belong to Niels Christensen from Gleerup.  Hvolris is where I find my Anna Nielsdatter in 1816 for her marriage.

Marriage Anders Jensen and Anna Nielsdatter 3 May 1816 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362065#362065,70559123


Lisa Petersen

The second one on 22 May 1803 is a home baptism.

22de Maj hiem döbt Niels Kristensens dotter, Ane af Hovlriis.  [and in the margin] Hiemdöbt v. 436

At the top of the next page is her baptism in Bjerregrav church

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933384

The first one in 1802 was also baptized in Bjerregrav church.

I have doubts that either of these Anes are the one you are looking for, since both were born after 1800 and your Anna was born before 1800.

It was common to name a child after a previously deceased child, but it was possible, but much less common, to have 2 children with the same name that both lived to adulthood.

Have you seen the register for Hersom church book?  Pages 525 to 547.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933435

Lisa Petersen

Citat fra: Lisa Petersen Dato 10 Dec 2023 - 03:44The second one on 22 May 1803 is a home baptism.

22de Maj hiem döbt Niels Kristensens dotter, Ane af Hovlriis.  [and in the margin] Hiemdöbt v. 436

At the top of the next page is her baptism in Bjerregrav church

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933384

The first one in 1802 was also baptized in Bjerregrav church.

I have doubts that either of these Anes are the one you are looking for, since both were born after 1800 and your Anna was born before 1800.

It was common to name a child after a previously deceased child, but it was possible, but much less common, to have 2 children with the same name that both lived to adulthood.

Have you seen the register for Hersom church book?  Pages 525 to 547.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=160226#160226,26933435

Lisa Petersen


Yes, the register is how I found the other two Anne Nielsdatters.  I could not find a death record for Anna Nielsdatter born 1796 and I know that it is uncommon to have two living children with the same name yet I have had that happen at least 4 times in my family tree with direct relatives (including this family).  I also looked for a confirmation record for Anna born 1796 and had no luck with that either.  I tend to agree with you that 1796 Anna might not be my Anna.

Now that I have had a chance to look at the baptism records for the children of Anna and Anders, and the names of the children, given naming conventions at the time, it does not seem to match.  The children of Anders Jensen and Anna Nielsdatter were: Johanne (his mother), Jens (his father), Dorthe, Anna, Niels, Mads (died), Mads, Anna Marie, Else, Hans and Karen.

If they named the children based on conventions at the time then her mother was probably Dorthe and the mother of 1796 Anna in Gleerup, Vesterbølle was Kirsten Nielsdatter.

Based on the witnesses to the baptisms on the Nielsen/Nielsdatter side I have:

Christen in Palsgård (1 baptism), Christen in Hvolris (2 baptisms), Anna in Hvolris (Anna #2?) (2 baptisms), Niels in Navndrup (1 baptism), Dorthe Niels Dahls in Neder Hvolris (2 baptisms), Karen Niels Møller in Hvolris (1 baptism).

Then on the Anders Jensen (who has a living brother also named Anders) side I have:

Anders in Hvolris (1 baptism), Anders in Ørris (2 baptisms), Anders Jensen in Torup, (1 baptism), Anders Jensen in Palsgård (1 baptism), Mads in Ørris (3 baptisms), Niels in Hvolris (2 baptisms), Jens in Øls (3 baptisms).

Interestingly enough a Niels Christensen in Palsgård also witnessed the baptism of Anna Marie Andersdatter.

I thought I might find a clue in the probate records but I do not see any for Hem, Hersom or Vesterbølle.

Lisa Petersen

Have you eliminated Niels Christensen Dahl, who lived 'next door' to Anders Jensen & Anna Nielsdatter on the 1834 census, as any possible relation?  He is maybe a little young to be Anna's father, but it would be a nice fit, in some ways.  Was his daughter Dorthe a sponsor for 2 of your Anna's children?

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=2458#2458,84971

Lisa

#15
Citat fra: Lisa Petersen Dato 11 Dec 2023 - 21:28Have you eliminated Niels Christensen Dahl, who lived 'next door' to Anders Jensen & Anna Nielsdatter on the 1834 census, as any possible relation?  He is maybe a little young to be Anna's father, but it would be a nice fit, in some ways.  Was his daughter Dorthe a sponsor for 2 of your Anna's children?

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=2458#2458,84971

Lisa

That is an interesting one because he would have been 22 when my Anna was born and Anna Marie Jensdatter would have been 24 in 1796.

I will do the witnesses by child since I have already typed them up:
Johanne Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362108#362108,70559761
Witnesses: Mads Jensen in Ørris, unmarried Karen Christensdatter in Navndrup, Niels Jensen in Hvolris, Anders and Jens Andersen in ??

Jens Andersen (my ancestor): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362107#362107,70559739
Witnesses: unmarried Karen Christensdatter in Navndrup, Anna Nielsdatter in Hvolris, Mads Jensen in Ørris, Niels Jensen in Hvolris, Christen Nielsen in Palsgård? (Dalsgård?)

Dorthe Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=362069#362069,70559194
Witnesses: Mads Jensen in Ørris, unmarried Kirsten Thomasdatter in Hvolris, Christen Nielsen and Anders Jensen in Hvolris and Mads Jensen in Ørris (2 Mads?)

Anna Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559196
Witnesses: Søren Madsen's widow in Hersom, Mads Møller in Ørris, Jens Andersen in Hornum?, Jens Horrup? in Hvolris, Niels Møller.

Niels Andersen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559202
Witnesses: Niels Møller's datter Kirsten in Hvolris, Niels Dahls datter Anne in Hvolris, Anders Jensen (#1?) in Ørum, Christen Dahls in Øls, Niels Nielsen's (son?) in Navndrup

Mads Andersen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559204
Witnesses: Mads Møller in Ørris, Jens Pilskovs? in Elperus?, Niels Møller in Hvolris, Christopher Pedersen in Kaugård?, Søren Lund in Hvolris.

Mads Andersen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559206
Witnesses: Anders Jensen in Dalsgård, Niels Dahls datter Dorthe in Neder Hvolris, Jens Filsgård in Elperus?, Mads Lauritsen in Over Hvolris, Niels Dahl in Neder Hvolris

Anna Marie Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559207
Witnesses: Jens Jensen in Øls, Niels Christensen in Palsgård? (Dalsgård?), Christen Nielsen in Hvolris, Anders Jensen in Torup, Jens Jensen in Øls

Else Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559209
Witnesses: Niels Dahl's datter Dorthe and Niels Møller's datter Karen in Hvolris, Jens Norskov? and Jens Storup? in Hvolris and Peder Kjer in Pavis?

Hans Andersen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559214
Witnesses: Christen Dahl and Jens Horrup? in Hvolris, Mads Møller widowed son Christen in Ørris, Christen Dahl and the child's brother Jens Andersen in Hvolris.

Karen Andersdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362080,70559344
Witnesses: the child's sister Johanne, Anders Jensen's datter Johanne in Ørris, Anders Jensen in Ørris, Jens Jensen in Øls and Jens Norskov? in Hvolris

So, to answer your question, there are numerous witnesses with "Dahl" as a surname, including Dorthe, who witnessed 2 of the baptisms.  My Anna Nielsdatter, and her husband Anders Jensen, named their 4th child Anna Marie (the wife of Niels Christensen Dahl on the 1834 Census is Anna Marie Jensdatter),  But there was also an Anne Dahl as witness so, unless there were two Anne's in the family, (which happened in Anders Jensen's family, my 5th great-grandmother's family, my 4th great-grandfather's family in Denmark), then this might just be the close proximity of Niels Christensen Dahl's family for the baptisms.

Inger Toudal

#16
According to the parish register, Anna Nielsdatter in Needer Holriis was 20 years old
(or in her 20th year) when she married 3 May 1816.

Her age would fit very nicely with Anne baptized at home 10 Nov. 1796.

I wonder if it's this family:

Viborg, Rinds, Vester Bjerregrav, Neder Haulris, en Bye, 1. Familie, FT-1801, B8439
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Kristensen      40      Gift      Hosbonde      Bonde og gaardbeboer       
Ane Jensdatter      29      Gift      Hans Kone
             
Kristen Nielsen      6      -      Hans Søn               
Doritse* Nielsdatter      1      -      begge deres datter      *) Dorethe         
Maren Kristensdatter      50      Ugift      Tienestefolk               
Laurs Pedersen      12      -      Tienestefolk 

1801 Census: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1554693 - see Original Source

- if so, maybe Anne born 1796 was temporarily away from home.

- Niels Kristensen is in 2nd marriage, Ane Jensdatter in 1st marriage. Kristen is his son, Dorethe their daughter.

I don't think the family I found in the 1801 Census for Vesterbølle parish is the right one.

As Lisa Petersen suggested, maybe there is a relation to this family:

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hvolris Bye, en Gaard, 38, FT-1834, C2913
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Christensen Dahl      60      Gift              Gaardmand       
Ane Marie Jensdatter      62      Gift              hans Kone
       
Christen Nielsen      26      Gift              Deres Søn       
Dorthe Nielsdatter      21      Ugift              Deres Datter       
Kirsten Hvolris      3      Ugift              Deres Pleiedatter       
Søren Sørensen      24      Ugift              Tjenestefolk       
Niels Olesen      11      Ugift              Tjenestefolk

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hvolris Bye, en Gaard, 39, FT-1834, C2913
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Anders Jensen      42      Gift              Gaardmand       
Ane Nielsdatter      38      Gift              hans Kone       
Johanne Andersdatter      16      Ugift              deres Børn       
Jens Andersen      13      Ugift              deres Børn       
Dorthe Andersdatter      11      Ugift              deres Børn       
Niels Andersen      7      Ugift              deres Børn       
Mads Andersen      3      Ugift              deres Børn       
Ane Marie Andersen      1      Ugift              deres Børn

Venlig hilsen
Inger
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Lisa Petersen

#17
A little more information, to add to the confusion.   :P

Niels Christensen & Anne Marie Jensdatter moved to Roum sogn to live with son Christen Nielsen, 1840
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4067703

Niels Christensen Dahl died 30 Oct 1841 at his son Christen Nielsen Dahl's in Roum sogn, age 77 years
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584776#361959,70556464

I think his probate says he had 1 adult heir?  NCD was an aftægtsmand, and may have conveyed his estate (while still living) to his son in exchange for room & board.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=195361#195361,32707413

Ane Marie Jensdatter died 29 Apr 1840 in Roum sogn, age 68 years
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584776#361960,70556475

her probate says widower requested unprobated estate [uskiftet bo]
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=195360#195360,32707333

Anne Marie Jensdatter, married to Niels Dalgaard in Hvolriis, was daughter of Jens Hviding and Anne Christensdatter of Holmgaard:
https://www2.statsbiblioteket.dk/mediestream/avis/record/doms_aviser_page%3Auuid%3A1cddcc1f-eaf4-4113-a6b3-ca93aeb2231e/query/Hvolriis

It seems Hvolris is not on the 1801 census, so we can't find this family.

Lisa Petersen

Lisa Petersen

The mother of Anne born in 1796 was likely Dorthe Hansdatter.  In 1798 she gave birth to a son Hans and died shortly after.

Baptism of Hans, 10 May 1798, begins at the bottom of page 398, and the burial of Dorthe Hansdatter, same day, is immediately after on page 399
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121736#160226,26933365

So Niels Christensen probably married Ane Marie Jensdatter in 1798-1800. 

If you look at the baptisms of all the Nielsen/Nielsdatter names from Hvolris in the parish register, it seems they all have the same Niels Christensen father.  With the second wife, he re-used the names Christen and Anne from the first wife, and added Dorthe, twice.

Hope that helps.

Lisa Petersen

Lisa Petersen

And the plejedatter Kirsten Hvolris living with Niels Christensen Dahl & Ane Marie Jensdatter in 1834 was a grandaughter, born 18 Jun 1830, daughter of Ane Nielsdatter and alleged father Søren Mortensen Lund, both of Hvolris.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21584794#362069,70559203

Anders Jensen & wife were sponsors.

Lisa P.

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 12 Dec 2023 - 12:59According to the parish register, Anna Nielsdatter in Needer Holriis was 20 years old
(or in her 20th year) when she married 3 May 1816.

Her age would fit very nicely with Anne baptized at home 10 Nov. 1796.

I wonder if it's this family:

Viborg, Rinds, Vester Bjerregrav, Neder Haulris, en Bye, 1. Familie, FT-1801, B8439
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Kristensen      40      Gift      Hosbonde      Bonde og gaardbeboer       
Ane Jensdatter      29      Gift      Hans Kone
             
Kristen Nielsen      6      -      Hans Søn               
Doritse* Nielsdatter      1      -      begge deres datter      *) Dorethe         
Maren Kristensdatter      50      Ugift      Tienestefolk               
Laurs Pedersen      12      -      Tienestefolk 

1801 Census: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1554693 - see Original Source

- if so, maybe Anne born 1796 was temporarily away from home.

- Niels Kristensen is in 2nd marriage, Ane Jensdatter in 1st marriage. Kristen is his son, Dorethe their daughter.

I don't think the family I found in the 1801 Census for Vesterbølle parish is the right one.

As Lisa Petersen suggested, maybe there is a relation to this family:

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hvolris Bye, en Gaard, 38, FT-1834, C2913
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Christensen Dahl      60      Gift              Gaardmand       
Ane Marie Jensdatter      62      Gift              hans Kone
       
Christen Nielsen      26      Gift              Deres Søn       
Dorthe Nielsdatter      21      Ugift              Deres Datter       
Kirsten Hvolris      3      Ugift              Deres Pleiedatter       
Søren Sørensen      24      Ugift              Tjenestefolk       
Niels Olesen      11      Ugift              Tjenestefolk

Viborg, Rinds, Hersom, Hvolris Bye, en Gaard, 39, FT-1834, C2913
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Anders Jensen      42      Gift              Gaardmand       
Ane Nielsdatter      38      Gift              hans Kone       
Johanne Andersdatter      16      Ugift              deres Børn       
Jens Andersen      13      Ugift              deres Børn       
Dorthe Andersdatter      11      Ugift              deres Børn       
Niels Andersen      7      Ugift              deres Børn       
Mads Andersen      3      Ugift              deres Børn       
Ane Marie Andersen      1      Ugift              deres Børn

Venlig hilsen
Inger

Thanks for all of that information Inger.  I cannot find a connection with Niels Christensen Dahls...yet.  I do not think he is the father of my Anna Nielsdatter.  I think it more likely that the close proximity of the farms is the reason so many "Dahls" witnessed the baptisms of Anders and Anna's children.

I do, however, think the 10 Nov 1796 home baptism is my Anna Nielsdatter.  So, her father is Niels Christensen.

#21
Citat fra: Lisa Petersen Dato 13 Dec 2023 - 14:41The mother of Anne born in 1796 was likely Dorthe Hansdatter.  In 1798 she gave birth to a son Hans and died shortly after.

Baptism of Hans, 10 May 1798, begins at the bottom of page 398, and the burial of Dorthe Hansdatter, same day, is immediately after on page 399
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17121736#160226,26933365

So Niels Christensen probably married Ane Marie Jensdatter in 1798-1800. 

If you look at the baptisms of all the Nielsen/Nielsdatter names from Hvolris in the parish register, it seems they all have the same Niels Christensen father.  With the second wife, he re-used the names Christen and Anne from the first wife, and added Dorthe, twice.

Hope that helps.

Lisa Petersen


I agree that Dorthe Hansdatter must be the mother of my Anna since her 2nd daughter was also named Dorthe.  But, I think Niels Christensen in Neder Hvolris (born around 1761) is different from Niels Christensen Dahl (born around 1774).

Hans Nielsen born 10 May 1798 died young and is buried (7 p trin) 22 Jul 1798 age 10 weeks (on the next page on the bottom left).

I should correct that I earlier said they named their 4th child Anna Marie.  Their 4th child was Anna and their 8th child was Anna Marie.