Johan Gotlieb BØYTLER senior (1789/1790-1850/1855)

[Martine Viannay]

Bonjour,
I am looking for the Johan Gotlieb BØYTLER' parents and grandparents.

He was born in Copenhagen (1789/1790-1850/1855).
He lived Østergade 53, KØbenhavn where he had got a shop "Vilde og Frugthandel".

He married Ane Marie AHRENDS (1792/1793-1880) born in Copenhagen, also called LORENTZEN, may be her parents were Ahrent Lorenz Ahrentsen and Anna Cathrina KUHNEL, I haven't the link between them.

As you can see, I haven't found their births and deaths  but I have found their children in the census even the census of 1801 where he was at school.

Many thanks in advance for helping me.

Martine

[Ole Westermann]

Bonjour Martine

I have found this:

At http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156131&side=27&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1789-1795 F (EM)&height=717  (the German church/community in København)

1790 den 21 Martii von dhl D.Münter getaufft
Johann Gottlieb  geb. d. 13te ej.
Vater Johann Gottlieb Beutler, Maurerges(ell)
Mutter Johanna Niels tochter
Gevattern:
1. Mad. Anna Sloyter?, Schiffers Frau
2. Jgf. Christina Lund
3. Hr Kruse, Komandirsergeant
4. Niels Brinck, Schlachterges.
5. Christian Nielsen, Maurerges.
6. Fridr. Beutler, dito
7.    -   Eliasen, Schlachterges.

At http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156131&side=97&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1789-1795 F (EM)&height=717
Daughter Maria Edel bapt. May 20, 1792 born May 6; same parents, mother spelt Johanna Maria Nielsen

Johann Gottlieb Beutler (sen.) and Johanna Maria Nielsen/Nielsdatter did not get married in Sankt Petri church.

At http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156141&side=104&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1783-1813 D (EM)&height=717
1791 Aug.26 buried Johann Gottlieb Beutler, stonemason in Borgergade No 238, 76 y.o., had dropsy (ascites), free 'soil'.
So this seems to be JGB senior-senior, here at the 1787 census:

København, København (Staden), Øster Kvarter, , Dybensgade 191, 6, FT-1787, C1091
Johan Gotlieb Bøytler        59    Gift   hosbonde
Berthe Sophie Grotzes      54    Gift   Hans Kone
Johan Gotlieb Bøytler        24    Ugift Deres Barn      Muur Svend    (this is JGB senior)
Friderich Christian Bøytler 16       -      -       -
Friedrich Henrich Bøytler   10       -      -       -

Ole

[Martine Viannay]

Bonjour Ole,
Thank you for your work. You give me 2 generations more in my direct line and it confirms the german origin of this family.
I would have some others questions in the following days.
Thanks again
Martine

[Ole Westermann]

Looking at the age of JGB sen.-sen. (59 at 1787 census, and 76 at his death in 1791) could indicate, that it is not the same person.
But I think that the age 76 is totally wrong; this is often seen.

Johan Gottlieb Beutler (Bøytler), 12 y.o. in 1801 census in Garderstaldens Fattigbolig (guardsmen stable's poorhouse).
At the same place is also his mother Johanne Bøytler, married, 35 y.o. and sister Johanne M. Bøytler, 3 y.o.
The father Johan Bøytler, 42, married stonemason, is living with his brother Frederik B at Matr. 106, Sankt Annæ Vester Kvarter.
Frederik Bøytler 32 with wife Mariane Bjørn 27 and their son Frederik Christian 5.
You have to search them separately.

Ole

[Ole Westermann]

The birth and baptism of JGB senior:
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156128&side=134&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1757-1767 F (EM)&zoom=&height=717
Johann Gottlieb born 31.dec.1762 bp. 4.jan.1763: Parents: JGB ~ Bente Sophia

Here is the marriage between Johann Gottlieb Beutler and Bente Sophia Gritz:
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156136&side=120&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1728-1767 VJ (EM)&height=717
1755
Den 29. Maii, von dhl D. Hauber
in der Kirchen copuliet
Johann Gottlieb Beutler                     Caut:
Bente Sophia Gritz                     M. Søren Nielsen Zahl?
                                                      M. Andreas Gritz

Ole

[Martine Viannay]

Thank you again for these important date of birth and marriage .
However I have some difficulties to understand, so I write you what I have understood.

JBG (1728-after 1787) x Bente/Berthe Sophia GRITZ/GROTZES, married 29/05/1755

JGB senior senior (31/12/1762-) x Johanne 35 y.o. ?

JBG senior (1789/1790-after 1850) x Ane Marie AHRENDS
census 1801 : JGB 12y.o.

"the father Johan BOYTLER 42y.o. (1769-), living with his brother Frederik BOYTLER 32" census 1801 ?

And what do you think IF "The father Johan BOYTLER" he was another brother called Johan.
He wasn't in the census 1787, may be because he was already married ?

Another point : You speak about JBG senior senior buried 1791, he can't be the father if there is a new child Johanne M 3y.o. in 1801

May you can explain me, probably you have better understood than me.

[Ole Westermann]

My opinion is, that we have the correct names at the marriage 1755:

Johann Gottlieb Beutler ~ Bente Sophia Gritz
They got these childen (bapt. year):
1757   Maria Dorothea  ops.19 (1757-1767)
1759   Daniel Valentin    -   58
1761   Gottlieb               -  104
1763   Johann Gottlieb    -  134
1765   Christian             -  205
1767   Anna Dorothea    -   26  (1767-1778)
1770   Christian Friderich - 86          -
1772   Else Maria Dorothea  - 154    -
c.1775 Friderich Hinrich           confirmation May 1,1791 16 y.o.
1777   Johannes                 - 272    -

About all the JGBs: Maybe we should name them I-II-II-IV, where no I is the oldest.

To your questions:

JBG (1728-after 1787) x Bente/Berthe Sophia GRITZ/GROTZES, married 29/05/1755
  This is JGB I (c.1728 - 1791) ~ Bente Sophia Gritz (c.1733 - ?)

JGB senior senior (31/12/1762-) x Johanne 35 y.o. ?
  Then this is JGB II (31.12.1762 - ?) ~ Johanna Maria Nielsen (c.1766 - ?)

JBG senior (1789/1790-after 1850) x Ane Marie AHRENDS
census 1801 : JGB 12y.o.
  Then this is JGB III (13.3.1790 - ? ~ Ane Marie AHRENDS

"the father Johan BOYTLER 42 y.o. (1769-), living with his brother Frederik BOYTLER 32" census 1801 ?
   This is JGB II (ages in censuses (and at death) are very often unreliable !)

And what do you think IF "The father Johan BOYTLER" he was another brother called Johan.
He wasn't in the census 1787, may be because he was already married ?
   As you see from all the siblings at the top, there is only one Johan.
   At the census 1787 he is living with his parents (and not yet married to Johanna Maria)

Another point : You speak about JBG senior senior buried 1791, he can't be the father if there is a new child Johanne M 3y.o. in 1801
   I rename him to JGB I; the father of the 3 y.o. 'Johanne M' in 1801 is JGB II.
   And by the way the names in the 1801 are written wrong. Johanne M is in fact the mother
   Johanna Maria, and the name of the 3 y.o. daughter is wrong, AS:
   JGB II & Johanna Maria Nielsen got these 2 children baptized in the 1790ies:
   29.5.1795 Peter Christian Beutler (born 19.5.)
     http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156132&side=3&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1795-1807 F (EM)&height=717
       (the mother with wrong surname Christensen)
   22.4.1798 Anna Maria Beutler  (born 15.4.)
     http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156132&side=77&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke 1795-1807 F (EM)&height=717

I hope that this enlightens something.

Mes meilleures amitiés
Ole

[Martine Viannay]

Bonsoir Ole,

I understood everything. It was very clear. I couldn't be able to organize them like that and I agree with you.

So I have just one last question about the BØYTLER family :
I had found a long time ago(I can remember where, may be in the census 1801) :

Johan BØYTLER (1759-)married Kristine MØLLER (1759-) at Garnison kirke

One of their children, called Johan Gottfried BÖYDLER became an architect in Norway and is mentioned in the "Norsk Kunstnerleksikon".

Do you think he was a sibling ? I feel he was...

Avec mes amitiés
Martine

[Ole Westermann]

Your question:
Johan BØYTLER (1759-)married Kristine MØLLER (1759-) at Garnison kirke
  I met them several times in the church books of Sankt Petri. His name is Johann Gottfried Beutler,
  but at the baptisms of his children I never saw Johann Gottlieb Beutler.
  J Gottfried B is born around 1757 acc. to 1787 and 1801 census (search Johan B%tler).

Are they siblings?? I will take a look at it.

I think I found the marriage of JGB II & Johanna Maria:
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=156089&side=30&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Sankt Nikolaj 1785-1805 V (EM)&zoom=&height=717

1790
No 16  Johan Gottlieb Beutler U.K. (ungkarl/bachelor) og Johanne Rasmusd.* Pige (girl) copulerede
          d.17 Febr efter Tienesten (after the service). -
                                                                                                             *again a wrong surname
          The bride must have been highly pregnant !

  Ole

[Martine Viannay]

I appreciate all the precious links.

It is funny to read all these details but at this time a marriage after the service had to be a shame ?

Johan "Gottfried" BØYTLER/BEUTLER (13/07/1780-) or (24/05/1783-) I believe in the census 1801

his other brother and sisters : Morten (1781-), Maria (1786-) et Anne (1796-).

Martine

[Ole Westermann]

The marriage after the service was probably caused by the pregnancy status of the bride.

Johan Gottfried Beutler & Christine/Kristine Møller/Müller got these children:
Johann Gottlieb   b. 13.7.1780
Martin Slott         b. 14.6.1781
Johann Gottfried  b. 24.5.1783   does he get ~ to Anne Kirstine Dahl ? (a daughter Anne Marie bp. 23.2.1806)
Maria Dorothea   b. 21.6.1785
Martha Christina  b. 24.2.1789
Johann Gottlieb   bp. 16.7.1792
Sophia Christina  bp. 16.3.1794
Birgitta Catharina -    16.3.1794
Anna Christina     -    14.12.1796

Ole

[Ole Westermann]

I think that your suggestion about Ahrent Lorentz Ahrentsen and Anna Cathrina Kühnel as parents to Anne Marie is wrong, as they first got married in 1795:
Frederiks Tyske Kirke
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis.php?bsid=149605&side=47&kb=KB: København, Sokkelund, Frederiks Tyske Kirke 1759-1813 VJ (EM)&height=717
1795 No.2
Hauscopulation den 7 Februari
Ahrent Lorentz Ahrentsen, Controleur
       und
Jfr. Anna Cathrina Kühnel

They got several children after that, but none of them with the name Anne Marie.

Ole

[Martine Viannay]

Bonjour,

1- Johan Gottfried Beutler & Christine/Kristine Møller/Müller
Johann Gottfried  b. 24.5.1783 x Anne Christine DAHL (1777-1858)
https://nkl.snl.no/Johan_Gottfried_Böydler

It seems there were a few Beutler in Copenhagen, may be they were relatives...

2-Ane Marie AHRENS
I see that it was a wrong track.

Thank you for your help. I continue looking for another people.

Martine

[Martine Viannay]

Sorry I don't speak very well english, I wanted to say "another name of people" in my direct line.

Martine