Villumsen

Startet af Linda Carter, 14 Jul 2015 - 06:28

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Linda Carter

I am trying to find information on my Great Grandfather Hans Erik Villumsen (later Harry Williamson) who jumped ship in Australia in May 1890.  He was born in Kobenhavn 22 October 1869, his father was Edvard Villumsen and his mother was Annie Andersen. His father was a farmer according to a copy of the wedding certificate d. 3 Dec 1896.  I believe the name of Villumsen then changed to Willumsen and in 1895 my Great Grandfather took the spelling Williamson after his naturalisation.  He died on 28 Feb 1949.  I have a family photo of perhaps his nephews and nieces c. 1899 inscribed on the reverse 'Til Daved & Erek'.  The other names are Laurets/Thora/Kerstene/Anna. I also have the name of Fred (in a uniform) and of a baby after 1898 of Annie Christina Willumsen plus one other unnamed.  I believe my Great Grandfather's brother was Niels  These dates have been ascertained from the names of the photographers in Kobenhaven. I would be grateful if any assistance can be given to help me in my Danish search.  Thank you.  Linda Carter, New Zealand.

John Damm Sørensen

Hello Linda,

Do you have copies of the documents you can attach?
Is Hans Erik listed somewhere in the Australian National Archives? If so please provide  links to the data.

There doesn't seem to be any by the names you mention in the 1880 census.

The fact that Hans Erik's father was a farmer sort of contradicts that he was born in Copenhagen. He is more likely born in a village near Copenhagen somewhere in the Copenhagen County.

Best
John


Brian Lauridsen

In the 1860 census there is a Edvard Williamsen, age 24, living in Kregme, Frederiksborg County.
He is a carpenter apprentice and born in Copenhagen. He could be a possible candidate for Hans Erik's father.

http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid9032931

Brian

Brian Lauridsen

In a case like this, one would try to follow Edvard in the military levying roll to see where he was in 1869.
In 1858 we find him in levying district 17 (Kregme Parish) #253
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17248#17248,733005

13 K 182 means that in the year K (1861) he will be listed as #182 in levying district 13 (Vinderød Parish)

And there he is:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17254#17254,735196

Here 17- N69 refers to year N (1863), levying district 17 (Ågerup Parish, Holbæk County), #69. However, I am not able to find him there. 1861 the military levying roll system was reorganized, so this could be the reason, or I could have overlooked him. Maybe someone with more knowledge of this type of records could have a look.

Brian

John Damm Sørensen

#4
The man in the levy records is named Edvard William.

It might be him here as a foster son:

Frederiksborg, Strø, Ølsted, Ølsted bye, huus, 9, FT-1840, C6758
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Niels Hansen    37    Gift       hmd. daglejer    
Birthe Pedersdtr.    35    Gift       hans kone    
Ane Kirstine Nielsdtr.    12    Ugift       deres børn    
Hans Nielsen    8    Ugift       do    
Peder Nielsen    6    Ugift       do    
Kirsten Nielsdtr.    1    Ugift       do    
Eduard William    4    Ugift       plejebarn,fra stiftelsen    

Frederiksborg, Strø, Ølsted, Ølsted By, et Huus, 17, FT-1845, C2828
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Niels Hansen    42    Gift       Hmd: lever af sin Jordlod    Ølsted S:
Birthe Pedersdatter    40    Gift       hans Kone    Do [Ølsted S:]
Ane Kirstine Nielsdatter    17    Ugift       deres Børn    Do [Ølsted S:]
Hans Nielsen    13    Ugift       deres Børn    Do [Ølsted S:]
Peder Nielsen    11    Ugift       deres Børn    Do [Ølsted S:]
Eduard William    9    Ugift       Pleiebarn fra Kjøbenhavns Fattigvæsen    Kjøbenh.

Frederiksborg, Strø, Ølsted, Ølsted sogn, Ølsted by, 18, FT-1850, C5428
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Niels Hansen    48    Gift       Daglejer, husfader    Ølsted Sogn
Birthe Pedersdatter    45    Gift       Hans Hustru    Ølsted Sogn
Ane Kirstine Nielsdatter    22    Ugift       Deres datter    Ølsted Sogn
William Eduard    13    Ugift       Plejebarn    København

Frederiksborg, Strø, Lille Lyngby, Store Lyngby By, Et Hus, 7, FT-1880, C6608
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Ole Laurits Larsen    34    Gift    Husfader, Daglejer, Nyder Fattigunderstøttelse       Ølsted Sogn
Ane Marie Hansen    35    Gift    Hans Hustru       Skævinge Sogn
Kristian Larsen    8    Ugift    Søn, Deres Barn       Borup
Niels Henrik Larsen    6    Ugift    Søn, Deres Barn       Gjørløse Sogn
Oluf Peter Larsen    3    Ugift    Søn, Deres Barn       Gjørløse Sogn
Kristine Marie Larsen    1    Ugift    Datter, Deres Barn       Sigerslevøster
Edvard Villiam    43    Ugift    Snedker       København
Margrethe Jensdatter    58    Enke    Fattiglem       Oppesunby
Karen Sigvardsdatter    77    Enke    Husmoder og Husejer, lever af sin Jordlod       Her i Sognet
Peder Sørensen    56    Fraskilt    Daglejer i Agerbruget, Hendes Søn       Her i Sognet
Hans Sørensen    38    Ugift    Hjulmager, Hendes Søn       Her i Sognet
Lars Sørensen    35    Ugift    Tjemer Moderen, Hendes Søn       Her i Sognet
Jens Peder Hansen    10    Ugift    Plejesøn       Her i Sognet
Hans Olsen    54    Gift    Husfader og Jordbruger       Her i Sognet
Sidse Marie Olsdatter    45    Gift    Husmoder       Her i Sognet

Frederiksborg, Strø, Lille Lyngby, Store Lyngby m-kort nr.5795 liste 5, hus f.2, 3, FT-1890, B9456
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Edvard Villiam    53    Ugift    husfader    under fattigforsørgelse    Kjøbenhavn


Edvard's confirmation is here:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=17119991#159237,26772418

He was born January 26, 1837 in Copenhagen at the Maternity Hospital (Københavns Fødselsstiftelse).
At his birth neither his mother's nor his father's names were recorded.

Since Edvard stays as a single until the age of 53. He might not be the most obvius candidate.


Best
John

John Damm Sørensen

According to this document:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16415220#19,13509

Edvard was handed to his foster parents on March 6, 1837. His mother is only mentioned by number 82.

Best

John

John Damm Sørensen


Brian Lauridsen

There seems to be a bug in the archives' new viewer.
When you click the link it goes to page 1 in the book. If you copy and paste the URL into the adress field again it seems to work - at least in my browser.

Brian

John Damm Sørensen

Same thing here.
I use Firefox and Google Chrome on Ubuntu.

Best
John

Brian Lauridsen

I agree with John. This is probably not the right Edvard.
Doing a wider search. I came up with this family in the 1870 census, that does and does not fit. Many of the elements are there, just not in the right order.

All persons in the household
København, Smørum, Ishøj, Tranegilde, , 157, FT-1870, A4369
Name:   Age:  Marital status:  Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Erik Villumsen  27  gift  husfader  huseier  Sengeløse
Ane Hansdatter  28  gift  husmoder   her i sognet
Søren Oluf Hansen  5  ugift  barn   København
Hans Peder Villumsen  under 1 år  ugift  barn   her i sognet
http://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid9202137

Hans Peder was born 22 November 1869 in Ishøj Parish - page 25
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=204513#204513,38802230



The family in the 1880 census:

All persons in the household
København, Smørum, Sengeløse, Vridsløsemagle, Et Hus, 134, FT-1880, C4841
Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Position in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Erik Villumsen  37  Gift  Husfader, Daglejer i Agerbrug   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Ane Hansdatter  38  Gift  Hans Hustru   Ishøj Sogn i Kjøbenhavns Amt
Lars Christian Villumsen  8  Ugift  Deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Jens Villumsen  3  Ugift  Deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Ane Kirstine Villumsen  1  Ugift  Deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Kirsten Larsdatter  71  Enke  Husfaderens Moder   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]


Hans Peder age 10 is already serving:
København, Smørum, Sengeløse, Vridsløsemagle, En Gaard, 98, FT-1880, C4841
Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Position in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Lars Hansen  51  Gift  Husfader, Gaardejer   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Ane Marie Hansdatter  57  Gift  Hans Hustru   Kildebrønde Sogn i Kjøbenhavns Amt
Jens Peter Larsen  29  Gift  Deres Søn   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
.
.
Hans Andersen  18  Ugift  Deres Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
Hans Peder Villumsen  10  Ugift  Deres Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sengeløse]
http://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid10209947



In the 1890 census the names of Hans Peder's younger siblings fit the names in the original post.

All persons in the household
København, Smørum, Sengeløse, Vridsløsemagle, , 270, FT-1890, C4842
Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Position in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Erik Villumsen  47  Gift  Husfader  Arbejdsmand, Daglejer i Agerbrug  Sengeløse Sogn
Ane Villumsen  48  Gift  Husmoder   Trangilde
Ane Christine Villumsen  11  Ugift  Barn   Sengeløse Sogn
Marthin Villumsen  6  Ugift  Barn   Sengeløse Sogn
Laurits Villumsen  5  Ugift  Barn   Sengeløse Sogn
Ana Villumsen (Tvillinger)  5  Ugift  Barn   Sengeløse Sogn
Thora Villumsen  3  Ugift  Barn   Sengeløse Sogn
http://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid12389763

Ane Christine Villumsen died 1901 in Copenhagen, unmarried, so she is probably not the woman with the child. - page 169
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=155481#155481,25975523

http://www.kbharkiv.dk/kildeviser/#!?collection=5&item=145526

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=3403129&searchname=polit_adv

However her brother Jens in 1900 married a Ane Kirstine Pedersen in Sengeløse - page 120
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=155481#155481,25975474

Jens was manager of Ringsted bacon factory. Here in the 1906 census. - page 3
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=16569#16569,624555

Ane Kirstine Willumsen could be the woman in the picture with the daughter Anna Christine - or this is yet another wild-goose chase.

Brian

Brian Lauridsen

Linda has allowed me to post an email she sent me and John:

Hello John and hopefully Brian too.

Thank you for the response.  You are coming up with lots of info as is Bente who is responding through my email address.  I wish I could respond to you both on the forum but I can't seem to find the link that puts it there, hence my coming back to you both individually.  I hope a copy of this is also going to Brian but if not John, could you put him in the loop too.  I am using an ipad beside my pc trying to do translations!

I have now had a chat to my elderly aunt who tells me as far as she knows he was just Hans (Harry) Williamson and she has never heard of him having the second name of Erik so goodness knows where my father got that one.  However, the last entry really does follow the names of the photo which I am told was taken in Odense. 

I am attaching the marriage and death certificates for you.  Sorry the naturalisation one is very dark (so I haven't copied that) but states his name is Hans and he is aged 26 at the time and occupation of farmer.  Mackay is a sugar cane area in Queensland.

My aunt said that the family in the photo which I will also attach had planned to visit Australia but the war intervened, though not sure which one she meant.  She was born in 1933 so not sure if she is talking from what her grandfather told her which could mean either WW1 or WWII.

In the family that he had with Annie Smout (my GGm), the first son is named David which would be after her father, the 2nd Eric is from the male side of Villumsen I would think, Lillian Gertrude (my Gm not sure there), Harry Jnr (Danish) and then Ada (female side) Thora (Danish side).  So you can see there is a record of names following through.

...

When I followed my GGs trail to Australia via NZ (1890) his immigration crew list upon entering Australia stated he had departed from Shetland.

Also I can confirm that Hans' older brother was definitely Neils Anders Villumsen, the soldier I mentioned born in 1852 Bendstrup? as I have a family portrait which passed to me recently after my mother died and my Great Aunt Ada Thora always used to say Goodbye Uncle Niels as she walked past it on her way out the front door.  It always hung in her family home before my father took control of it after my great grandparents died and before it was assigned to the firewood pile.  It is painted on glass but I will try and find an artist's copy of it which my father produced to send to the Danish Consul when seeking the info re the army connection.

Re photo, on reverse the names in descending order are - Laurets/Thora/Kerstene Anna/Anna but I can't be sure with the centre two which is left and right though I think Thora is the one to the right and Kerstene Ana has the bow at her throat.  A baby photo of Anna Christene Willumsun is taken after 1898. I have a very obscure photo of a boy soldier named Fred and also a female, no name, dated between 1877 and 1887, a younger woman.

Hope this isn't loading you with too much info.

Thank you all once again.

Kindest regards
Linda.



Niels Andersen Willumsen was born 8 December 1852 in Bendstrup, Alsønderup Parish, Frederiksborg County to Willum Pedersen and Lene Pedersdatter page 39. - Hard to see how he fits in at the moment.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=148043#148043,24449302

http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid10481388

Brian


[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

John Damm Sørensen

Linda has sent me Hans's marriage and death certificate and a photo from Odense.

Best
John

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

John Damm Sørensen

Death certificate

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

John Damm Sørensen

Citat fra: Brian Lauridsen [886] Dato 18 Jul 2015 - 08:44
...

Niels Andersen Willumsen was born 8 December 1852 in Bendstrup, Alsønderup Parish, Frederiksborg County to Willum Pedersen and Lene Pedersdatter page 39. - Hard to see how he fits in at the moment.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=148043#148043,24449302

http://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid10481388

Brian


I doubt that Niels Andersen Willumsen is a brother of Hans' as in the 1860 and 1870 censuses the families had these members:

Willum Pedersen 34
Lene Pedersdatter 31
Peder Willumsen 10
Niels Anders Willumsen 6
Dorthe Marie Willumsdatter 6

Willum Pedersen 43
Lene Pedersdatter 41
Niels Andersen Willumsen 17
Dortea Marie Willumsen 15
Ellen Elise Willumsen 8

Far fetched Niels Andersen Willumsen could be Hans' father. Since Hans would have been born out of wetlock he might have made up his parents names at his wedding.

Best
John

Brian Lauridsen

Niels A. Willumsen is supposed to be Hans' brother.

Hans was born in Ishøj to Erik Villumsen and Ane Hansdatter.
Hans named a son after Erik.

Erik Villumsen was born 1842 in Sengeløse to Willum Andersen and Ester Christine Larsdatter page 8
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=155476#155476,25974333

Niels' father was Willum Pedersen.

Doesn't really add up. The two Willums could be 1st cousins, but that is speculations at this point.

Brian


bente lindhardt

I have spent much time trying to find a connection between Niels Anders Willumsen and Hans Peter Willumsen, but I have not found any.


Bente Lindhardt

Brian Lauridsen

I would take the information on Geni with a grain og salt.
Hans' sister Anna Villumsen is supposed to have been married and given birth to a daughter in Eureka Springs, Carroll County, Arkansas 14 December 1905.

At that point she is a servant in Copenhagen.
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1472025&searchname=polit_adv

November 1905 she is living in Vestergade 4
http://www.kbharkiv.dk/kildeviser/#!?collection=2&item=3283479

May 1906 she is living at the same adress:
http://www.kbharkiv.dk/kildeviser/#!?collection=2&item=3283412

Brian

John Damm Sørensen

Citat fra: Brian Lauridsen [886] Dato 17 Jul 2015 - 19:32
There seems to be a bug in the archives' new viewer.
When you click the link it goes to page 1 in the book. If you copy and paste the URL into the adress field again it seems to work - at least in my browser.

Brian
In another thread it is mentioned that with Firefox you simply click the back button once, then you end on the right page.

Best
John