Forfatter Emne: Christian ANDERSEN (1823-1881) - Mayor of Skelde  (Læst 1121 gange)

Pip Peck

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Christian ANDERSEN (1823-1881) - Mayor of Skelde
« Dato: 15 Maj 2014 - 00:24 »
According to the 1906 "The Cyclopedia of New Zealand" Christian ANDERSEN was mayor of Skelde/Schelde, South Jutland. This was probably after 1866.

Is there any way of verifying this? I haven't been able to find anything online (in English language).

Also, was Skelde ever conquered by Prussia/Germany and, if so, for what periods of time?

Thank you.
« Senest redigeret: 15 Maj 2014 - 00:28 af Philippa Peck [38493] »
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Ralph Rasmussen

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« Svar #1 Dato: 15 Maj 2014 - 01:48 »
You probably have seen this bit:

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelde

Not exactly in English, but probably clear enough on the situation 1866-1920:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Abstimmung-schleswig-1920.png/800px-Abstimmung-schleswig-1920.png

The local archives or historians can probably answer on Christian Andersen, and certainly in English - it's the highest common factor in our era.
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
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« Svar #2 Dato: 16 Maj 2014 - 01:27 »
Thank you, Ralph. I appreciate your assistance.
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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #3 Dato: 16 Maj 2014 - 03:30 »
Hi Philippa,

His death record is in www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger -
Sønderborg, Nybøl, Broager 1881-1906, Opslag 4, right hand page. The record is in German.

As far as I can make out, it says he was a Bohlsmann, i.e. farmer, in Schelde. His parents were Andreas Andersen and Christina Gregersen.

His death is also recorded in the Personregister: http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16520850#37596,5283235
- where he is said to a Hufner, i.e. farmer.

It could be this young man in the 1845 census:

Sønderborg, Nybøl, Broager, Dorf Schelde, Nübel Harde, Hufengebäude, ferner Schelde, 50, FT-1845, c6382
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Place of birth:
Andres Andersen    60    Verheir.       Hufner    Schelde
Anna Catr. Sibbesen    45    Verheir.       Ehefrau    Buusholm
Christian Andersen    22    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Christina Andersen    15    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Maria Dorth. Andersen    12    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Catrina Maria Andersen    9    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Philip Andersen    6    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Andreas Andersen    3    Unverheir.       ihre Kinder    Schelde
Hans Jensen    31    Unverheir.       Dienstboten    Schelde
Catrina Marg. Christensen    29    Unverheir.       Dienstboten    Schmoel
Christina M. Hansen    24    Unverheir.       Dienstboten    Schelde

It seems that Christian's mother died, and his father married again and named the daughter Christina after his late wife.

The last census in Sønderjylland before the period of Prussian rule was taken in 1860.

www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_folketallinger - 1860, Slesvig, Sønderborg, Broager:

1860 census Broager I: http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?bsid=10299

1860 census Broager II: http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?bsid=10630

Censuses were taken in the Prussian period, too, but the documents were destroyed after they had been used for statistical purposes.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal
« Senest redigeret: 16 Maj 2014 - 03:44 af Inger Toudal [1655] »

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« Svar #4 Dato: 19 Maj 2014 - 21:52 »
Thank you, Inger, for providing the personal information and the useful history.
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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #5 Dato: 04 Apr 2021 - 15:10 »
1860 Census, Broager parish: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid16405579

Sønderborg, Nybøl, Broager, Skodsbøl By, En Gaard, 360 (4), FT-1860, D7591
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in househol:     Occupation:     Birthplace:
Christian Andersen     36     Gift      Husfader. Gaard- og Teglværksforpagter            Hersteds
Magdalene. f. Clausen     30     Gift      Hans Kone            Dybbøl Sogn, Sønderborg Amt 
Anne Christine Andersen     7     Ugift      Deres Barn            Hersteds 
Andreas Andersen     5     Ugift      Deres Barn            Hersteds 
Claus Christian Andersen     2     Ugift      Deres Barn            Hersteds 
Johannes Frederich Petersen     27     Ugift      Tjenestekarl            Adsbøl Sogn, Aabenraa Amt 
Philip Andersen     21     Ugift      Tjenestekarl            Hersteds 
Anne Margrethe Svensen     28     Ugift      Tjenestepige            Hersteds 
Anne Cathrine Petersen     20     Ugift      Tjenestepige            Hersteds 
Laus Hansen     42     Ugift      Brandmester            Dunkær, Rise Sogn, Ærø, Svendborg Amt 
Lorenz Andersen     70     Enkemand      Aftægtsmand            Skodsbøl, Broager Sogn, Sønderborg Amt !! 

1860 Census: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=10299#10299,256571 - right page, No 4

In 1860 the family was living in Skodsbøl village in Broager parish, and Christian Andersen was a farm and brickyard tenant/lessee.

Venlig hilsen
Inger

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« Svar #6 Dato: 05 Apr 2021 - 00:40 »
Thanks, Inger! This is great information.
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Pip Peck

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« Svar #7 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 09:21 »
I have the death/burial of Christian ANDERSEN (1823-1881).
I would be very grateful if someone would translate this entry for me.

Overview / Sønderborg / Nybøl / Broager parish / Churchbooks / Churchbook 1881 - 1906 Broager
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn1685/churchbook/source3169/opslag1641690
Burial No. 56
Died 03 July 1881
Burial 07 July 1881

Thank you.
« Senest redigeret: 06 Apr 2021 - 09:47 af Pip Peck »
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Børge Nielsen

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« Svar #8 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 09:56 »
I am not sure Mayor is his correct title. According to this book https://slaegtsbibliotek.dk/907792.pdf Christian Andersen was appointed to "Kommuneforstander" of Skelde in 1872 - 1880 (page 46). Kommuneforstander could be translated to municipal warden?
Maybe someone else knows the exact translation.
Christian Andersen took over the farm "Vandstedbæk" after his father Andreas Andersen.

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« Svar #9 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 10:02 »
Christian Andersen marriage to Magdalene Clausen 1852 (no. 4)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=455732&side=75

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« Svar #10 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 10:14 »
Thank you Børge! I appreciate your help.
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Pip Peck

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« Svar #11 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 10:36 »
Christian Andersen was appointed to "Kommuneforstander" of Skelde in 1872 - 1880 (page 46). Kommuneforstander could be translated to municipal warden?

This was after Prussia annexed the Duchy of Schleswig, I believe. Would that have been a democratic appointment or would he have been appointed by the Prussians?
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Inger Buchard

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« Svar #12 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 11:56 »
The 'Gemeindevorsteher' was appointed by the state

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #13 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 12:14 »
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preussen - Forvaltning

"Landkommunerne styredes af et råd på 6—24 medlemmer, valgte på 6 år, og en kommuneforstander,
valgt af rådet, men stadfæstet af landråden."

Haven't checked if the above is correct.

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

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« Svar #14 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 12:15 »
Thank you Inger

The 'Gemeindevorsteher' was appointed by the state

How does the "Gemeindevorsteher" differ from the "Kommuneforstander"?

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #15 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 12:24 »
Gemeindevorsteher is German, Kommuneforstander Danish = 'chairman of parish council' maybe?

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Inger Toudal

Inger Buchard

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« Svar #16 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 12:27 »
The two are identical: German and Danish.
The tricky about the election vs. appointing thing is, that the Gemeindevorsteher, elected by the Gemeinderat, had to be of the right political/national 'colour'. No dane fighting for the rights of the Danish population in the province of Schleswig-Holstein would be accepted as 'Gemeindevorsteher' by the 'Landrat'.

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« Svar #17 Dato: 06 Apr 2021 - 12:50 »
Thanks Inger

The two are identical: German and Danish.
The tricky about the election vs. appointing thing is, that the Gemeindevorsteher, elected by the Gemeinderat, had to be of the right political/national 'colour'. No dane fighting for the rights of the Danish population in the province of Schleswig-Holstein would be accepted as 'Gemeindevorsteher' by the 'Landrat'.

That's funny ;D ! I grew up believing my gt grandfather - son of Christian ANDERSEN - was born in Denmark. He considered himself Danish. However, he was actually born under Prussian rule.
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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #18 Dato: 07 Apr 2021 - 00:59 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Districts_of_Germany

"...the primary administrative subdivision higher than a Gemeinde (Municipality) is the Landkreis (official term in all but two states)
or Kreis (official term in the states of North Rhine-Westphalia and Schleswig-Holstein). ...

District council

The district council (German: Kreistag) is the highest institution of a rural district and is responsible for all fundamental guidelines of
regional self-administration. ...

District administration
The highest administrative position of a rural district is an officer known as Landrat or Landrätin, who is responsible for the
district's day-to-day administration and acts as its representative for official purposes. In parts of northern Germany, Landrat is
also the name of the entire district administration ...."

- maybe the above is not exactly correct for the 1870's.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Parish records / Churchbooks: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/geo/geo-collection/5

The death record of Christian Andersen in a new scanning:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22045481#455739,81489069 - right page. No 56

Christian Andersen, Bohlsmann in Wandstedbeck
zu Schelde und ehel. Sohn des weil. Bohlsmannes
Andreas Andersen und der weil. Christina
Gregersen daselbst, geb. 12 Sept. 1823. Er wurde
verehel. den 25 März 1852 mit nochlebender
Magdalena Clausen und hinterlässt aus
dieser Ehe 6 Kinder: 1. Anna Christina, verh. mit
Gastwirth Peter Petersen zu Aller 2. Andreas
Andersen dienend in Dänemark unweit Sven-
borg(?) 3. Claus Christian Andersen Artillerist in
Rendsburg 4. Peter (Christian) Andersen, ??-
?? in Bjerning 5. Christian Leonhardt An-
dersen zu Hause bei der Mutter und 6. Anna
Helene Margretha Andersen auch zu Hause.
Er starb an der Schwindsucht 57 Jahre 9 Mon.
25 Tage alt. Grabrede und Predigt. ??
??

Christian Andersen, farmer in Vandstedbæk
at Schelde and legitimate son of the deceased farmer
Andreas Andersen and the deceased Christina
Gregersen same place, born 12 Sept. 1823. He was
married 25 Mar. 1852 to the surviving
Magdalena Clausen and leaves 6 children born
in this marriage: 1. Anna Christina, married to
innkeeper Peter Petersen in Aller 2. Andreas
Andersen servant/farmhand in Denmark not far from
Svenborg(?) 3. Claus Christian Andersen artilleryman in
Rendsburg 4. Peter (Christian) Andersen, ??-
?? in Bjerning 5. Christian Leonhardt An-
dersen at home with his mother and 6. Anna
Helene Margretha Andersen also at home.
He died from tuberculosis 57 years 9 months
25 days old. Speech at the grave and sermon. ??
??

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

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« Svar #19 Dato: 07 Apr 2021 - 11:44 »
That's fantastic! Thank you Inger. I appreciate your help.
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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #20 Dato: 07 Apr 2021 - 12:18 »
Christian Andersen, farmer in Vandstedbæk
at Skelde ...

- forgot to change German Schelde into Danish Skelde.

In the book that Børge Nielsen linked to, it says that Christian Andersen was appointed Kommuneforstander for Skelde in 1872.

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #21 Dato: 07 Apr 2021 - 13:36 »
Thanks Inger  :)
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Pip Peck

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« Svar #22 Dato: 16 Apr 2021 - 13:19 »
I have Christian ANDERSEN's birth/baptism here:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn1685/churchbook/source138592/opslag15145612 #68

In my notes, I have his birth place as Østerballe, Broager...

Could someone please tell me if the record mentions his place of birth?
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Inger Buchard

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« Svar #23 Dato: 16 Apr 2021 - 14:04 »
It says (German) Schelde = (Danish) Skelde, a village in Broager parish

Today Østerballe is at streetname in Skelde
It is the name of the houses in the eastern part of the village Skelde

N: 54.863583
E: 9.727535

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #24 Dato: 16 Apr 2021 - 19:02 »
Østerballe is not mentioned in Christian Andersen's birth record:

Christian Andersen, des Bohlmanns Andreas An-
dersen und Christina geb. Gregersen in Schelde ehel. Sohn. [record in German]

His birth record in the main book:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17216138#201113,38089178 -No 68

Christian Andersen's confirmation 1839:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17216138#201111,38088338 - left page, No 2

Christian Andersen, Søn af Boelsm. Andreas Andersen i Skeld. [record in Danish]

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

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« Svar #25 Dato: 17 Apr 2021 - 01:18 »
Thank you Inger Buchard and Inger Toudal!

I'm not sure where the Østerballe, Broager birth place came from - probably a distant relative who has visited Denmark.

Was Østerballe originally a farm? It is mentioned here - page 19 (original), page 20 (PDF), 1st paragraph:
Broagerlands Historie
https://slaegtsbibliotek.dk/907792.pdf
Unfortunately, Google Translate wasn't very enlightening.

It would seem more likely that he was born at Vandstedbæk at Schelde

Parish records / Churchbooks: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/geo/geo-collection/5

The death record of Christian Andersen in a new scanning:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22045481#455739,81489069 - right page. No 56

Christian Andersen, Bohlsmann in Wandstedbeck zu Schelde und ehel. Sohn des weil. Bohlsmannes Andreas Andersen und der weil.

I am now wondering if he was born at, say, the home of a maternal relative - eg, maternal grandparents - at Østerballe??? I'm not sure how anyone could confirm that.
« Senest redigeret: 17 Apr 2021 - 01:24 af Pip Peck »
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Inger Buchard

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« Svar #26 Dato: 17 Apr 2021 - 12:55 »
Østerballe is the name of a part of a village; hence you'll find names as Sønderballe, Nørreballe and Vesterballe elsewhere

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« Svar #27 Dato: 17 Apr 2021 - 22:45 »
Took a closer look at Broagerlands Historie.

Seems that Christian's father Andreas Andersen took over the family farm in Midtballe around 1820 (SKE 20, p. 36).

In 1836 he bought the farm in Vandstedbæk, and his oldest son Peter took over the farm in Midtballe (SKE 27, p. 46).

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #28 Dato: 19 Apr 2021 - 22:04 »
Thank you Inger and Inger! I appreciate your help.
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