Looking for Grandfather in Copenhagen abt 1886

[Dan]

Hi,

Would anyone be able to help me find my Danish grandfather before he left Copenhagen? He came to the US at age 25 and we know nothing of this family before him, but I'm hoping we could find him with his family in one of the Danish census' before 1886.

Name: Thomas T Horslund
Proposed Timeline: http://imgur.com/m9Fp8dE.jpg
Arrived on the Thingvalla 21 Jul 1887 to the New York port. (this record on ancestry is nearly impossible to read)
Departed from Copenhagen, Denmark where he was in seminary school.
 Additional info under Ringsted Churches: https://archive.org/stream/historyofemmetco01pion/historyofemmetco01pion_djvu.txt

Concurrent thread:  http://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/24olh4/help_finding_a_danish_grandfather

More specifically, based on what I read on the census, the way they handled the names around that time period wasn't as consistent as it is now, so it's hard to say if Horslund was his family name or if that came from elsewhere.

Any help would be appreciated!  (and thank you for posting english instructions on the sticky topics)

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Navn:  Haslund, Thomas Thomsen Stilling:  Præst
Alder:  25 Bestemmelsessted:  New York
Kontrakt nr.:  247400 Forevisningsdato:  7/1/1887
Sidste oph.sogn:  København Sidste oph. amt:  København
Sidste oph.sted:  Kbhvn. Bestemmelses land:  USA
Bestemmelses by:  New York City Bestemmelses stat:  New York State
Skibsnavn:  Thingvalla
Bemærkninger:  ANM: Thingvalla. IDkode:  D8587H4702

I wonder if this could be your grandfather. This young man is said to be a clergyman.  Haslund could have become Horslund.

This is the Thingvalla sailing from Copenhagen on 1 July, 1887. It doesn't say where he was born but only that his last permanent residence was in Copenhagen.

I saw on Familysearch that the T in your grandfather's name stands for Thomsen. I suppose it is him being married to Mette Catrine Peterson in Ringsted Iowa.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Samtlige personer i husstanden

København, København (Staden), Store Kannikestræde (Lige nurme), Klædebo Kvarter, Universitets Rod, Matr. 49, Nr. 2, Forhuset, 2. Sal, 4, FT-1885, D3471




Niels Ryberg Finsen 24 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. med. Færøerne 
Kristen Pedersen Høy 25 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. theol. N. Nebel, Ribe Amt 
S. Ramlensen?? 23 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. med. & chir. Sønder Omme 
Bjarni V. Thorsteinsson 20 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. med. Kjøbenhavn 
Thomas Thomsen 23 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. juris. Færøerne 
Stungrimwe?? Stefansson 24 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. polyt. Island 
Pau Bjarnason 24 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. med. Island 
Einar Gisli Hjørleifsson 25 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. polit. Island 
Jens Christian Christensen 24 Ugift Alumnus Regens og Cummunitetsstipendiat stud. theol. ...?? pr. Viborg 



There is a student here in Copenhagen in census 1885. His name is Thomas Thomsen from the Faraoe Islands. He is 23 but he is a law student. Maybe he was a student of theology? He could have added the name Haslund.

Eva M

[Dan]

I think it's him - Haslund looks to be the more common last name at the time, but in the image of the ship manifest, it looks like Horslund.  I searched the thingvalla for another Haslund, but there doesn't seem to be anyone else.

Looks like the departure dates for the Thingvalla were 7 July.
1887     Christiania     July 07     New York     July 21
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=thing

I also found this record for someone by the same last name going to Hampton, Iowa 5 years later.  This is a small town and happens to be the same place Thomas had just built his church in 1890, so I wondered if this was a relative following him out.  That being said 11 other people also went there that year so possibly a coincidence.

Name:   Horslund, Maren Nielsen   Occupation:   Syerske
Age:   23   Destination:   Hampton, Ia.
Contract no.:   333000   Registration date:   10/13/1892
Birth place:   ?   Birth place:   ?
Last res. parish:   Holstebro   Last res. county:   Ringkøbing
Last residence:   Holstebro   Destination country:   USA
Destination city:   Hampton   Destination state:   Iowa
Name of ship:   Island
IDcode:   D9293H3001

[Dan]

"Thomas Thomsen 23 Ugift Alumnus Stipend. stud. juris. Færøerne  "

=> Would he have added a last name in an attempt to convert to a family name?

[Peter Paluszewski]

From "Danske sagførere":

Thomsen, Thomas, (døbt Thomasen), f. 19. Maj 1861 paa Sandevaag, Færøerne, død 4. Febr. 1905 i Kbhvn.; S. af Kongsleilæn-ding Thomas Haraldsen og Hustru Sophie Elisabeth Danielsen; g. 10. Apr. 1890 i Kbhvn. m. Julie Frederikke Foght, f. 13. Maj 1861 i Kbhvn., død 5. Nov. 1907 i Kbhvn.; D. af Vinhandler Magnus Vilhelm F. og Hustru Anna Marie Oøtterup. — 1881 Student fra Sorø. 1886 cand. jur. En kort Tid By- og Herredsfuldm. i Varde. Allerede som Student havde T. været ansat hos O.sagf. Otto Wineken, for hvem han 24. Febr. 1887 fik Fuldmagt, og da W. i Dec. 1888 ansattes ved Statsbanerne, ledede T. Afviklingen af hans Virksomhed under W.s Tilsyn. Da Fuldmagten for W. hævedes 28. Marts 1889, fik T. Fuldmagt for O.sagf. Jens Petersen. 7. Marts 1890 Overretssagfører; praktiserede i Kbhvn. 25. Nov. 1899 Beskikkelsen deponeret. 15. Okt. 1901 Beskikkelsen udleveret; praktiserede i Kbhvn. til sin Død. — 1890-98 Folketingsmand for Færøerne. — Søn: Sagfører, cand. jur. Henning Foght Thomsen, Beskikkelse 1923.

He is cand. jur. from Copenhagen University 2. Juni 1886. Born on the Faroe islands Died 1905 in Copenhagen. This is the one from the census - unfortunately not your grandfather.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Ringkøbing, Hjerm, Mejrup, Kobberup, G., Raisumkjer, 5, FT-1870, C8947




Laust Olesen 50 Gift Huusfader Landmand Meirup 
Ane Sisilie Pedersen 40 Gift Huusmoder  Meirup 
Thomas Thomsen 6 Ugift Pleiebarn  Holstebro 
Ane Johannessen 71 Enke

Could it be him here? He is in fostercare. I couldn't finns his birth in Holstebro.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I may have found him in Vinding sogn, Ringkoebing amt:

Born 25 November 1862 Thomas Thomsen. (Father's title) G? Anders Thomsen and wife Else Andersen in Horslund. Mother  30 years old.

Vinding, Ulfborg, Ringkoebing 1842-1871, image 23.

He has taken the name of his birthplace Horslund and it is wrong in the emigration database. Wild guess!

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

His father Anders Thomsen died on June 23 1864 (image 3, 1858-1891)

Mother Else Andersen married Niels Christian Nielsen 17 July 1866 (image 134, 1865-1892)

Had a daughter Maren Nielsen on 10 Dec. 1868 (image 53, 1865-1892). Still living in Horslund.

So Thomas and Maren should be half-siblings.

It seems to fit but is it so?

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

 


Samtlige personer i husstanden

Ringkøbing, Ulfborg, Vinding, Veivad, en Gaard, 63, FT-1880, D5006




Niels Christian Nielsen 37 Gift Husfader  Aulum ?? Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Else Andersen 47 Gift hans Hustru  Siir ?? Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Tomads [Thomas] Tomadsen [Thomsen] 17 Ugift Husfaderens Gudbarn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Mariane Tomsen [Thomsen] 15 Ugift Husfaderens Gudbarn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Anders Nielsen 13 Ugift Barn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Maren Nielsen 11 Ugift Barn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Niels Nielsen 9 Ugift Barn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Mætte [Mette] Nielsen 6 Ugift Barn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Else Marie Nielsen 5 Ugift Barn  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 
Niels Kibæk [Kidbæk] Jensen 18 Ugift Tjenestekarl  Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt 

This is the family in Census 1880.

eva M

[Inger Toudal]

The Thomas Thomsen that Eva found, indeed received royal permission to change his name to
Thomas Thomasen Horslund on 25 Apr. 1887 (see remark in church book).

Could this young man be his father? Anders was only 22 when he died 23 Jun. 1864, and according
to the death record he was born in Horslund, and died there as well (from gastric fever):

Ringkøbing, Ulfborg, Vinding, Horslund, En gaard, 1, FT-1860, D2386
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Anders Thomsen    18    Ugift    Gaardmand, huusfader       Hersteds [here]
Søren Madsen    56    Ugift    Huusfaders medhjælper       Hersteds
Anders Mikkelsen Pedersen    35    Ugift    Tjenestefolk       Hersteds
Mette Jensen    35    Ugift    Tjenestefolk       Faberg s., Ringk. a.

Thomas is here in the 1870 and 1880 census. Niels Christian Nielsen is Else Andersen's 2nd husband:

Ringkøbing, Ulfborg, Vinding, -, Horslund, 93, FT-1870, D2389
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Niels Christian Nielsen    26    Gift    Huusfader    Gaardmand    Aulum
Else Aandersen    37    Gift    Huusmoder    Hustru    Tviis
Tomas Tomasen    7    Ugift    Barn       Winding
Mariane Tomasen    5    Ugift    Barn       Winding
Anders Nielsen    3    Ugift    Barn       Winding
Maren Nielsen    1    Ugift    Barn       Winding
Peder Jensen    18    Ugift    Tjenestetyende    Tjenestekarl    Sinding
Jens Lauritsen    15    Ugift    Tjenestetyende    Tjenestekarl    Tviis
Ane Marie Nielsen    18    Ugift    Tjenestetyende    Tjenestepige    Aulum
Ane Knudsen    19    Ugift    Tjenestetyende    Tjenestepige    Idom

Ringkøbing, Ulfborg, Vinding, Veivad, en Gaard, 63, FT-1880, D5006
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Niels Christian Nielsen    37    Gift    Husfader       Aulum ?? Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Else Andersen    47    Gift    hans Hustru       Siir ?? Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Tomads [Thomas] Tomadsen [Thomsen]    17    Ugift    Husfaderens Gudbarn*       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Mariane Tomsen [Thomsen]    15    Ugift    Husfaderens Gudbarn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Anders Nielsen    13    Ugift    Barn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Maren Nielsen    11    Ugift    Barn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Niels Nielsen    9    Ugift    Barn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Mætte [Mette] Nielsen    6    Ugift    Barn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Else Marie Nielsen    5    Ugift    Barn       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt
Niels Kibæk [Kidbæk] Jensen    18    Ugift    Tjenestekarl       Vinding Sogn, Ringkjøbing Amt

* Gudbarn is 'godchild'. I think it's a misreading for Stedbarn 'stepchild'.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Inger,

I must be blind. Why didn't I see the remark? You can't miss it, can you?

So it all fits like the hand in the glove.

Eva M

[Inger Toudal]

Eva,

Fortunately, you are very good at guessing!


Anders Thomsen and Else Andersen were married 4 Aug. 1862 in Tvis church
(Tvis, Hammerum, Ringkøbing 1845-1874, opslag 178).

Ringkøbing, Ulfborg, Vinding, Vinding, Horslund,en gaard, 63, FT-1845, C1508
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Thomas Madsen    48    Gift       Gaardmand    Heri sognet
Mariane Andersdatter    30    Gift       Hans kone    Heri sognet
Maren Thomassen    5    Ugift       Deres barn    Heri sognet
Anders Thomassen    3    Ugift       Deres barn    Heri sognet [in this parish]
Søren Madsen    42    Ugift       Tjenestefolk    Heri sognet
Anders Mikkelsen    30    Ugift       Tjenestefolk    Wind sogn Ringkjøbing amt
Mads Andersen    17    Ugift       Tjenestefolk    Heri sognet
Ane Marie Poulsdatter    28    Ugift       Tjenestefolk    Aulum sogn Ringkjøbing amt
Maren Jensdatter    26    Ugift       Tjenestefolk    Nørfelding sogn Ringkjøbing amt
Frederik Pedersen    25    Ugift       Muursvend    Aulum sogn Ringkjøbing amt

Ringkøbing, Hammerum, Tvis, Store Solds, 17. en Gaard, 86, FT-1845, C1459
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Anders Christensen    61    Gift       Gaardmand    Sneiberg Sogn. Ringkøbing Amt
Mette Christensdatter    49    Gift       Hans Kone    N. Felding Sogn. Ringkøbing Amt
Christen Andersen    22    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Maren Andersdatter    16    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Niels Christen Andersen    14    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Else Andersdatter    13    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet

Inger T.

[Peter Paluszewski]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure you have found the right Thomas due to the correct name. To the OP, the churchbook of Vinding parish has been transcribed here:
http://hammerum-herred.dk/viewpage.php?page_id=67

If it turns out it is not him, I have another suggestion:
I looked at the Military levying rolls of Copenhagen and found this entry in 1879 (no 503):
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16481033#18744,1175796
A Julius Thomas Thomsen, b. 8th May 1861 in Vor Frue parish, son of Professor Julius Thomsen,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Peter_J%C3%B8rgen_Julius_Thomsen

In 1880 he is a soldier in 15th battalion, and is in the infirmary:
København, København (Staden), Rigensgade, Rigensgade 9, 476, 37, FT-1880, D4605
Julius Thomas Thomsen    18    Ugift    Patient    Soldat ved 15. Bataillon   København

In 1882 he is retired from the military. He could have gone on to study theology at the university.

His uncle Thomas Gotfied Thomsen, was an engineer, but later from 1882-1888 studied theology at Copenhagen University. They could have studied together.

Peter

[Inger Toudal]

Hi again,

You may wonder why Eva started searching for Thomas in Vinding parish, Ringkøbing county.

I bet she first searched for the place name Horslund at http://www.krabsen.dk/stednavnebase/

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Inger,

It wasn't Krabsen that led me to Vinding but a marriage on FS in 1859 between a Jens Nielsen and a Maren Thomsen Horslund. I then discovered that Horslund was the place she lived in not her name so I started looking for Thomas in Vinding and found him.

I guess this Maren Thomsen is Thomas' aunt.

You can reach your goal in different ways.

Is it possible to find the seminar he studied at to become a minister? There must be lists of men that became ministers. He seems to have obtained the new name shortly before his departure.

Eva M

[Ralph Rasmussen]

His death could hardly have gone unnoticed in a church paper at the time.  

One possibility:

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ne/topic/newspapers/NSHS/special/foreign/danish.htm

A local obit would less likely menttion his birthplace or education.

Pastors in Denmark would be university graduates, but there were also special courses for aspiring pastors for the Danish diaspora in America. 

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Navn:  Petersen, Mette Kathr. Stilling:  Frøken
Alder:  23 Bestemmelsessted:  New York
Kontrakt nr.:  246700 Forevisningsdato:  7/1/1887
Sidste oph.sogn:  København Sidste oph. amt:  København
Sidste oph.sted:  Kbhn. Bestemmelses land:  USA
Bestemmelses by:  New York City Bestemmelses stat:  New York State
Skibsnavn:  Thingvalla
Bemærkninger:  ANM: Thingvalla.

His future wife was on the same voyage.

Eva M

[Dan]

So I took the name change idea to my grandmother.  She says there's an old document that mentioned he changed his name because there were 3 people named 'Thomas Thomsen' in seminary school.  The document she referred to was written in danish, but she can't understand it - that was just something she had heard once before.

I've never seen the document myself, so I'm going to try and get a copy/picture of it.   I expect it will at least take me a few days, but this could confirm what you've found.

I'm very impressed by what you've found so far!  Seems like we're finally going to be able to get past this dead end.

[Inger Toudal]

Anders Thomsen and Else Andersen were married 4 Aug. 1862 in Tvis church
(Tvis, Hammerum, Ringkøbing 1845-1874, opslag 178).

Ringkøbing, Hammerum, Tvis, Store Solds, 17. en Gaard, 86, FT-1845, C1459
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Pos. in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Anders Christensen    61    Gift       Gaardmand    Sneiberg Sogn. Ringkøbing Amt
Mette Christensdatter    49    Gift       Hans Kone    N. Felding Sogn. Ringkøbing Amt
Christen Andersen    22    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Maren Andersdatter    16    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Niels Christen Andersen    14    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet
Else Andersdatter    13    Ugift       Deres Børn    i Sognet

Should of course read: Anders Thomsen and Else Andersdatter were married...

Patronymics were still in use at the time Else's birth, so her surname is "Anders' daughter".
In later censuses, and at Thomas' birth her surname is recorded as Andersen.

Inger T.

[Lizz Denis]

Hi,

Would anyone be able to help me find my Danish grandfather before he left Copenhagen? He came to the US at age 25 and we know nothing of this family before him, but I'm hoping we could find him with his family in one of the Danish census' before 1886.

Name: Thomas T Horslund
Proposed Timeline: http://imgur.com/m9Fp8dE.jpg
Arrived on the Thingvalla 21 Jul 1887 to the New York port. (this record on ancestry is nearly impossible to read)
Departed from Copenhagen, Denmark where he was in seminary school.
 Additional info under Ringsted Churches: https://archive.org/stream/historyofemmetco01pion/historyofemmetco01pion_djvu.txt

Concurrent thread:  http://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/24olh4/help_finding_a_danish_grandfather

More specifically, based on what I read on the census, the way they handled the names around that time period wasn't as consistent as it is now, so it's hard to say if Horslund was his family name or if that came from elsewhere.

Any help would be appreciated!  (and thank you for posting english instructions on the sticky topics)

I also have a lost ancestor in Denmark who left no notes!  A suggestion was putting the image you are unable to read on the Danish speaking part of the list (I always use google translate - type up message one side and it translates to the other in Danish, then vice versa with answers in Danish - not perfect (sometimes amusing) but helpful).

[Peter Paluszewski]

Hi,

Just a short report on a non-lead.
I was at the state archives recently, and while waiting I checked the list of students at the theological faculty at Copenhagen University (books are on display). Unfortunately they stop in 1883, and are replace by jubilee writings on the students collected years later than graduation. I didn't find Thomas, which might be because he left the country, so he couldn't be found for the jubilee book.

There is a index card system on theological students as well, and I looked for Haslund/Horslund and Thomsen, and the only name close to your gf's was Thomas Gotfried Thomsen, grad. 1887 - mentioned above.

This just means that someone will have to look deeper to find him in the records.

Regards, Peter

[Dan]

I'm back with a few documents out of an old shoebox.  The files were too big to upload directly, so I've linked them on dropbox. (2MB/each)

The first is a collection of news clippings.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13196632/horslund_doc1.pdf

The second is from a history book in Denmark, but unfortunately I don't know which one.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13196632/horslund_doc2.pdf

It takes a minute for the files to load -- I'll move it to another host if it is a problem.

Thanks!

[Peter Paluszewski]

Hi Dan,

A quick detour. Do you need more information on Mette Cathrine Pedersen's ancestry?
Her birth record:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-33699-11720-0?cc=2078555&wc=M523-BZC:357517001,360430101,360498401,360503101

Kaj and Ingrid Schmidt's page, where she is listed:
http://www.sm1.dk/schmidt/fam47868.htm

Note that Vind and Vinding are neighbouring parishes - I guess meeting someone from near your home is comforting, when you move across the world.

I took another look, and found the Thomas Thomsen from Vinding in the military levying rolls:
http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?epid=16480946#19819,1610434
In 1880 he is listed in Vinding parish. He is supposed to have been in the military (5th battalion) on Aug. 15th 1886, but it seems it was delayed 3 years. in 1888 and 1899, he is is in America.

Regards,
Peter

[Erik Rygaard Lassen]

Hi Dan,
I have just seen your postings about Thomas Horslund. He was an uncle to my father-in-law. I have a letter from 1935 which Tomine (Minnie) wrote to a cousin in Denmark.
If you see my posting please mail me: rygaard@oncable.dk
Thomas' wife Catharine was a sister to my wifes grandfather.

Best regards,
Erik Rygaard Lassen

[Dan]

Hi Erik,

That's great to hear - email sent.  I was able to get to the next generation eventually after re-reading some of the posts above.  (Thank you again everyone)

Best,

Dan