Looking for Peder Nielsen Parents

Jan Nielsen · 26 Aug 2013 - 03:13

Hello again,
I Have been unable to find the parents of Peder Nielsen b. abt 1785 in Roum, Viborg amt. I have located the 1834,1845 and 1850 census records for him and they match with family. 1845 record confirms he was born in Roum. Where are the 1787 and 1801 records?
I checked the best I could in the church records but could not find him.

He was married to Mariane Jensdatter b.abt 1785 in Hvornum, Randers amt. I did the same for her and also cannot find the 1787 and 1801 records.

I would like to know who there parents were. They are my 3rd great grandparents. Johanne Marie Pedersdatter b. january 29, 1826 in Haerup, Viborg amt was their daughter and my 2nd greatgrandmother.

thanks,
Jan Nielsen

Ralph Rasmussen · 26 Aug 2013 - 06:23

To follow up on:

1) Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Hvornum Sogn, Brøndum Bye, 6, FT-1801, B8194
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv

Jens Jensen 47 Gift Huusbonde Bonde og Gaardfæster
Karen Christensdatter 50 Gift Hans Kone
Christen Jensen 15 - Deres Børn
Jens Jensen 10 - Deres Børn
Christen Jensen 8 - Deres Børn
Mariane Jensdatter 13 - Deres Børn

2) The age doesn't just fit the Marianne Jensdatter in Hvornum 1756-1811, bottom of opslag 83, 16? October 1787, whose father is plausibly Jens Jensen (It is particularly hard to decifer).

The census rules would place 15 year old Christen in 1787, and he doesn't appear to belong to 1787.

Inger Toudal · 26 Aug 2013 - 09:33

Hi Jan,

It would have helped, if you had quoted the censuses, or at least told us where the couple settled. I found them, anyway.

Viborg, Rinds, Klejtrup, Hærup by, En gaard, 4, FT-1845
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Peder Nielsen   60    Gift      Gaardmand   Roum Viborg amt
Mariane Jensdatter   60    Gift      Hans kone   Hvornum sogn Randers amt
Christian Pedersen   22    Ugift      Deres børn   Heri sognet
Johanne Pedersen   20    Ugift      Deres børn   Heri sognet
Anders Pedersen   17    Ugift      Deres børn   Heri sognet
Inger Cathrine Jensen   8    Ugift      Pleiebarn   Hjermind sogn Viborg amt

Viborg, Rinds, Klejtrup, Hærup bye, en gaard, 13, FT-1850, C2882
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Peder Nielsen   65    Enkemand      Gaardmand og huusfader   Roum s, Wiborg a
Christian Pedersen   27    Ugift      hans børn   Heri sognet, Kleitrup
Johanne Pedersen   25    Ugift      hans børn   Heri sognet, Kleitrup
Anders Pedersen   22    Ugift      hans børn   Heri sognet, Kleitrup
Inger Cathrine Jensen   13    Ugift      pleiebarn   Hersom s, Wiborg a

Viborg, Rinds, Klejtrup, en gaard, Hærup, Kleitrup sogn, , 13, FT-1855, C6680
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Peder Fisker   68    Enkemand   gaardmand, husfader      Roum Sogn, Viborg Amt
Christian Pedersen   32    Ugift   husfaders børn      Her i Sognet
Anders Pedersen   26    Ugift   husfaders børn      Her i Sognet
Hanne Pedersen   29    Ugift   husfaders børn      Her i Sognet
Konraddine Johannesen   13    Ugift   tjenestetyende      Hersom Sogn, Viborg Amt

Viborg, Rinds, Klejtrup, en gaard, Hærup by, Kleitrup sogn, , 30, FT-1860, C6681
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:      Birth place:
Jens Nielsen   32    Gift   gaardmand, husfader      Hvornum Sogn, Randers Amt
Johanne Pedersen   34    Gift   hans kone      Her i Sognet
Mariane Jensen   2    Ugift   deres datter      Her i Sognet
Peder Nielsen   74    Enkemand   aftægtsmand      Roum Sogn, Viborg Amt
Niels Jens Christiansen   17    Ugift   tjenestefolk      Vorning Sogn, Viborg Amt
Conraddine Johannesen   19    Ugift   tjenestefolk      Bjerregrav Sogn, Viborg Amt

Have you found Peder Nielsen's marriage record?

According to his death record (Klejtrup, Rinds, Viborg 1853-1873, opslag 74), Peder Nielsen (Fisker) was 82 years old when he died 5 July 1868, he was born at Skravadgaard in Roum parish, and his father was Niels Christensen:

Viborg, Rinds, Roum, Schravadgaard, , 1. familie, FT-1787, A4647
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Christensen   38    Gift   hosbonde   forpagter
Maren Pedersdatter   34    Gift   madmoder
Christen Nielsen   6    -   ældste søn
Peder   1    -   yngste søn
Anne   9    -   ægte datter
Søren Christensen   10    -   tjenestefolk
Johanne Nielsdatter   21    Ugift   tjenestefolk

I don't find Peder or his family in Roum parish in the 1801 census.

Mariane Jensdatter died 12 Jan. 1846 (Klejtrup 1842-1852), 60 years old, born in Brøndum. According to http://www.krabsen.dk/stednavnebase/ there's a Brøndum parish in Viborg county, but also a place name Brøndum in Hvornum parish, Randers county, which is not far from Klejtrup and Roum. I think Ralph found her already. It seems that the family moved to Hvornum parish after the 1787 census.

1787
d: 16(?) Sept blev Jens Jensens(?) Barn i Brøndum fremstillet i Hvor-
num Kirke til Daabs Publication af en Kone fra Hørbye, i
Brøndum ved Hiemdaab kaldet Mariane. Testes .....

You have to take into account that in the old records e.g. age 60 means in his/her 60th year, and the age may very well be a couple of years off.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal · 26 Aug 2013 - 11:48

This couple could be Peder Nielsen's parents in the 1801 census

Viborg, Nørlyng, Pederstrup, Pederstrup by og sogn, , 1, FT-1801, B8487
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Niels Christensen   55    Gift   Husbonde   Bonde og gårdbeboer
Maren Pedersdatter   49    Gift   Hans kone
Christen Nielsen   21    Ugift   Tjenestekarl
Jens Nielsen   14    Ugift   Tjenestedreng
Anders Nielsen   7    Ugift   Tjenestedreng
Birgithe Pedersdatter   21    Ugift   Tjenestepige

I had put a question mark after Jensen in the record of Mariane's baptism. I think the father is registered as Jens Skræder.

Jens Jensen Skræder in Brøndum had a son baptized Chresten in January 1785 (Hvornum 1756-1811, opslag 79). Then it could be this family:

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Brøndum, , 4, FT-1787, A4658
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Jens Skræder   33    Gift   hosbonde   gaardbruger
Karen Jensdatter   37    Gift   kone   kone
Kresten Jensen   12    Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste dreng
Anders Rasmussen   37    Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste karl
Gidske   36    Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste folk

The patronymic of his wife is not the same as in FT-1801, and the age of Kresten does not correspond to FT-1801. Kresten Jensen is listed as tienestefolk in the 1787 census, but that may be a mistake

The original censuses: AO, Folketællinger, 1787, Landsogn, Hvornum, opslag 5 &
AO, Folketællinger, 1801, Landsogn, Hvornum, opslag 10.

Inger T.

PS: The opslag number for Mariane Jensdatter's death record is missing from my former post: Mariane Jensdatter died 12 Jan. 1846 (Klejtrup 1842-1852, opslag 73), 60 years old, born in Brøndum.

Jan Nielsen · 26 Aug 2013 - 13:56

Thanks so much Inger and Ralph.
Sorry Inger for not showing the census records, did not know I should. Did you do a copy and paste? I have not done this before.
I do have a few questions.
1. Does Maren Pedersen - Madmoder mean she is the mother of Peder nielsen? I checked and it appears that it is the 1st marriage for both of them.
2. I did a quick check in the church records for Roum, Klejtrup and Hvornum. I did not find the marriage record for Peder Nielsen. I checked from 1814 to 1820, as 1st child born in 1819. Is my logic correct?
3. Peder Nielsen (Fisker), Is he the same person, where did the name "Fisker" come from if he was a farmer.
4. I am confused about the jens jensen Skraeder..is the really Marianes father and mother?

Thanks again,
Jan Nielsen

Inger Toudal · 26 Aug 2013 - 19:28

I copied and pasted the censuses from ddd.dda.dk, yes.

The Fisker surname in the 1855 census was a surprise, but it must have been his byname, since you see it in the death record as well.

It's a good idea to always mention sogn and amt (sometimes even herred, if there are two parishes of the same name in a county), not just the village, e.g. Hærup. Listing the censuses helps. In this case you see that he is listed as born in Roum in four subsequent censuses. As I didn't find him in the 1870 census, I looked for his death between 1860 and 1870. The same for Mariane, who's in the 1845 census, but in 1850 Peder Nielsen is listed as widower.

1. Madmoder means woman of the house, housewife (https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Danish_Word_List). As they are both in 1st marriage, one must assume that the children are born in that marriage, even if it's not explicitly listed. The oldest child, though, is listed as legitimate daughter (I haven't checked the original census at AO).

2. Your logic is correct, if you are sure the first child(ren) were not born out of wedlock. But the couple may have been married in another parish. Peder and his parents moved from Roum before the 1801 census.

3. He's definitely the same person. At the time of his death, he was living as a retired man (aftægtsmand) with his son-in-law, farmer Jens Nielsen Bagger in Hærup. I don't know where the name Fisker came from.

4. The 1787 census for what I believe to be the parents of Mariane is a bit of a mystery. Sometimes you see grave mistakes in the early censuses. Both are in 1st marriage in FT-1787 as well as in FT-1801. The age of Karen (37 in 1787, and 50 in 1801) indicates that it's the same person. I'm 100 % sure that Mariane' father is not listed as Jens Jensen in the church book. You have to look for the baptisms of the other children.

According to Mariane's death record, she was born in Brøndum. It's likely to be Brøndum in Hvornum parish, which is much closer to Klejtrup than Brøndum parish, Viborg county. And don't forget the birth place listed in the 1845 census.

Inger T.

John Wrenholt · 26 Aug 2013 - 22:37

Have we ruled out this Mariane? You can find her birth/christening on 1756-1811 Hvornum ops 82.

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Brøndum, , , 3, FT-1787
Jens Pedersen   36   Gift   hosbonde   gaardbruger
Johanne Larsdatter   38   Gift   madmoder   kone i huuset
Karen   11   Ugift   barn af 1ste ægteskab   barn som ere hiemme
Anders   9   Ugift   barn af 1ste ægteskab   barn som ere hiemme
Johanne   4   Ugift   barn af 1ste ægteskab   barn som ere hiemme
Mariane   1   Ugift   barn af 1ste ægteskab   barn som ere hiemme
Niels Sørensen   25   Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste karl
Anders Sparre   60   Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste karl
Maren Jensdatter   59   Ugift   tieneste folk   tieneste pige

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Hvornum Sogn, , Brøndum Bye, 4, FT-1801
Jens Pedersen   50   Gift   Huusbonde   Bonde og Gaardfæster
Johanne Lauridsdatter   55   Gift   Hans Kone
Mariane Jensdatter   14   -   Deres Børn
Peder Jensen   12   -   Deres Børn
Anders Nielsen   80   Enke   Mandens Stedfader   Begge nyder Ophold af Gaarden
Kirsten Pedersdatter   40   Ugift   Mandens Syster   Begge nyder Ophold af Gaarden

Inger Toudal · 26 Aug 2013 - 23:10

No, of course we haven't. I was concentrating too much on solving the mystery of the Mariane that Ralph had found.

This Mariane was baptized at home and subsequently presented in Hvornum church 1st Sunday after Trinity, i.e. 18 June 1786. Her father is Jens Pedersen Sparre.

Actually, she fits nicely into the picture, as Mariane and Peder's daughter was called Johanne Marie.

Viborg, Rinds, Klejtrup, Hærup Bye, en Gaard, 50, FT-1834, C2914
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Peder Nielsen   49    Gift      Gaardmand
Mariane Jensdatter   48    Gift      hans Kone
Niels Pedersen   15    Ugift      deres Børn
Jens Pedersen   12    Ugift      deres Børn
Jens Christian Pedersen   11    Ugift      deres Børn
Johanne Marie Pedersdatter   8    Ugift      deres Børn
Anders Pedersen   6    Ugift      deres Børn
Ane Marie Iversdatter   70    Enke      Inderste, lever af Haandarbeide

Inger T.

Ralph Rasmussen · 27 Aug 2013 - 00:04

It does fit well. I overlooked her baptism, recorded on opslag 82.

Inger Toudal · 27 Aug 2013 - 00:11

I think I found Mariane, born 1787, married to an Anders Jensen 1817 in Hvornum 1814-1834, opslag 69, 2nd entry:

Mariane Jensdatter 30 Aar
en Datter af gaardfæster
Jens Jensen i Brøndum i
Hvornum Sogn.

Inger T.

Jan Nielsen · 27 Aug 2013 - 15:49

Hello,
Thanks for all the information, interesting. Only thing now is i am confused on what is what.
The Ft info from John fits as you say.

Inger in your last note on Marianes marriage we now have a Anders Jensen (Landsoldat FT 1801), how does Peder Nielsen fit as he is the father of all the children. Her mrriage to him would have to have been about the same time based on the birth of 1st child Niels Pedersen.
So is Marianes father Jens Jensen or Jens Pedersen?

Thanks again,
Jan Nielsen

Inger Toudal · 27 Aug 2013 - 17:14

"Your" Mariane's father is Jens Pedersen (Sparre) and she was baptized 18 June 1786.

I found the other Mariane (born 1787) with 2nd and 3rd husband:

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Brøndum Bye, en Gaard, 38, FT-1834, C1976
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Peder Jensen   48    Gift      Gaardmand
Mariane Jensdatter   47    Gift      hans Kone
Johanne Andersdatter   15    Ugift      deres Børn
Karen Andersdatter   13    Ugift      deres Børn
Jens Andersen   11    Ugift      deres Børn
Jens Peter Andersen   9    Ugift      deres Børn

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Brøndum, , 49, FT-1840, B5202
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Morten Christensen   49    Gift      Gaardmand
Mariane Jensdatter   53    Gift      Hans kone
Jens Peter Andersen   14    Ugift      Hans søn

Randers, Onsild, Hvornum, Brøndum, En gaard, 53, FT-1845, B8306
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:       Birth place:
Morten Christensen   56    Gift      Gaardmand   Roum sogn Viborg amt
Mariane Jensdatter   60    Gift      Hans kone   Heri sognet
Jens Peter Andersen   19    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Heri sognet
Niels Christensen   14    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Heri sognet

- the children have the patonym Andersen/Andersdatter, so they must be of her 1st marriage.

Inger T.

John Wrenholt · 27 Aug 2013 - 17:27

1814-1815 Sønder Onsild, Onsild, Randers ops 89, no 8

I believe this is the marriage record of your Mariane to Peder Nielsen.

Inger Toudal · 27 Aug 2013 - 17:51

It seems that at the baptism of Peder Nielsen, his father is called Niels Pedersen ???

According to the transcribed 1787 census on ddd.dda.dk, both Peder's parents (Niels Christensen and Maren Pedersdatter) are in their 1st marriage.

Tostrup-Roum, Rinds, Viborg 1701-1807, opslag 408, 1st entry:
1786
d: 28de Maj havde Niels Pedersen, forpagter i Scravadgaard
sin Søn til Daaben kaldet Peder .....

Is there a mistake in the church book? I searched for the older brother Christen in the period 1779-1781, but didn't find him. Maybe the family had recently moved to the parish, and the vicar mixed up the patronyms of the parents?

Inger T.

Inger Toudal · 27 Aug 2013 - 18:18

I believe John found the marriage.

Peder Nielsen Selvejer
Gaardmand i Hærup Bye
Hersom Sogn 31 Aar.

Mariane Jensdatter 29 Aar
tienende i Sønder Onsild
Præstegaard.

The betrothal was on 20 Nov. 1817.

The marriage took place 30 Jan. 1818 in the church.

Both sponsors are farm owners in Sønder Onsild (brother-in-law(s) or not related?)

Hersom is a neighbouring parish to Klejtrup.

At the baptism of Niels, born 2 Jan 1820, the parents are Selv-Eier Gaardfolk in Hærup
(Klejtrup 1814-1841, opslag 18, No 1).

Inger T.

Jan Nielsen · 27 Aug 2013 - 22:06

Hello Again,
I have spent some time looking at all the wonderful information you have sent and want to summarize.

Peder Larsen Father is Niels Christensen b. abt 1749 Hvornum??
His mother was Maren Pedersdatter b. 1752 Hvornum??

Mariane Jensdatter father is Jens Pedersen b. abt 1751 in hvornum??
Her mother was Johanne Larsdatter (Lauridsdatter) b. 1749

Peder Nielsen and Mariane Jensdatter were married in 30 Jan. 1818 in Sønder Onsild,.

Is this Correct?

Jan Nielsen

Inger Toudal · 27 Aug 2013 - 22:51

Yes, except that we cannot assume that Peder's and Mariane's parents were born in Roum and Hvornum.
You have to find their marriages, or find them mentioned in probates. Witnesses at the children's baptisms can also give you a clue where they came from.

Peder Nielsen's father is Niels Christensen (NB: Pedersen in Peder's birth record) b. abt. 1749 in ??
His mother was Maren Pedersdatter b. abt. 1753 in ??

Mariane Jensdatter's father is Jens Pedersen b. abt. 1751 in ??
Her mother was Johanne Larsdatter (Lauridsdatter) b. abt. 1749 in ??

Peder Nielsen and Mariane Jensdatter were married 30 Jan. 1818 in Sønder Onsild.

Inger T.

Jan Nielsen · 28 Aug 2013 - 02:07

Thanks again. You have all been so helpful. I learn so much each time we do a search.
Jan Nielsen