Birth of Gerda Maria Magdalena (Aug 14 1913)

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Eva,

I was just about to post the places of birth.  Aage Johansen, according to the US records, was born 11 Aug 1907.  I had read Kjedstrup on the manifest but was not sure about the e.  Thanks for giving me another reading.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Lissa Pedersen]

Kjødstrup must be = Køstrup, and then it could be:

According to Krabsen it could be either:

Køstrup Mark - Brenderup - Vends - Odense

or

Køstrup - Indslev - Vends - Odense

Aage Skovly Johansen born 11 Aug 1907 in Brenderup parish, Vends, Odense, opslag 29, to Harald Marius Peter Johansen and Ane Kirstine Thomsen (27 yrs old).

They were married in Helsinge church 4 June 1906.

Lissa

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Lissa,

Back to AO for a look.  Thanks for your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej alle,

I found the birth of Aage Skovly Johansen in Brenderup, Vends, Odense.  He was born on 11 Aug 1907, opslag 29 nr 18.  Tak til alle.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Lissa Pedersen]

They married in Kirke Helsinge parish, Løve, Holbæk 4 June 1906, opslag 206.

Harald Marius Peter Johansen was from Buppel, Indslev parish, 26 yrs old, born 22 Aug 1879 to Lars Johansen and Maren Johansen born Rasmussen of Buppel.

Ane Kirstine Thomsen was from Vinde Helsinge (Kirke Helsinge parish), 26 yrs old, born 12 Feb 1880 to Dorthea Louise Thomsen of Vinde Helsinge.

Lissa

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Mange tak for din Hjælp Lissa.  Virginia has a family tree, but it is unsourced and so I am suspicious of it.  I will check the facts in it.

Med venlig hilsen fra North Carolina
Paul

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Paul,

Have a look at this:

Aalborg, Gislum, Ullits, Ullits, 5, 6, FT-1901, D4272
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Poul Kristensen 16-7-1858  Gift husfader gaardejer Nørre Rind, Viborg Amt
Petrea Pedersen 4-3-1858  Gift husmoder  Futhing, Viborg Amt
Johanne Marie Kristensen 30-3-1886  Ugift datter  Gjedsted, Viborg Amt
Kristine Kristensen 24-1-1894  Ugift datter  Ullits Sogn, Aalborg Amt
Kristian Marinus Pedersen 5-9-1889  Ugift  tjenestedreng Hobro, Randers Amt    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This must be the one in Copenhagen.

I can't find his birth in Hobro.

Eva M

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Eva,

Kristian Marinus Pedersen was born 5 Sep 1889 in Hørby, Hinstead, Aalborg, opslag 25 nr 21, mother unmarried Karen Marie Pedersen, 29, and alleged father Jens Nielsen.  Virginia has more births to unmarried mothers in her family tree than I have ever seen.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I found his confirmation in Ullits sogn, Aalborg, 1892-1902, image 52. He is the one born in Hørby on 5 Sep. 1889. Mother Karen Marie Pedersen.


Eva M

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Tak Eva,

By the way, Virginia is 78 and is really appreciative of all your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Inger Toudal]

Who are Ninus' parents writing from Øster Sundby in 1913?

In their letter they write:

"It would be better if he [Ninus] could get a permanent job in a workshop (værksted)."

In the 1911 census from Odense Chr. Marinus Pedersen is a bricklayer (Murer - Arbejdsmand), and in Copenhagen he's a construction worker (Jord- og Betonarbejder):
FT-1916, København, Bragesgade, opslag 36-38
Skt Stefan, Sokkelund, København 1912-1921, opslag 281 # 17 (death of his wife Johanne Petrine, née Madsen).
FT-1921, København, Bragesgade, opslag 24

How does that job description fit with getting a job in a workshop? A pattern maker (modelsnedker) would more likely have a job in a workshop.

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Inger,

Questions such as yours are what make genealogy such fun.  I think we all feel like detectives.  Thanks for your input.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Hi Paul,

I also thought about the workshop, a bricklayer doesn't need a workshop. I really don't know where a model carpenter works, if it is in a workshop only or a building site. I have a friend who used to a building carpenter but then changed to be a furniture carpenter (now he is a woodwork teacher) because it was too cold working outdoors.
In my imagination a model carpenter is someboby in a workshop but maybe I am wrong. Maybe he worked outdoors as well, if he couldn't find a job in a workshop. I mean to survive.
Perhaps it was just a coincidence with the Marinus living in Overgade 29 in FT 1911.
A paternity case would solve the problem. But is there one? If he was a witness at the baptism why didn't he recognise the child as his? Strange!

Eva M

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Eva and Inger,

You thought of something that I never thought about.  I still think that Christian Marius is the most likely candidate.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Inger Toudal]

Descriptions of a pattern maker's (modelsnedker) job:

http://www.apprenticesearch.com/AboutTrades/GetTradeDetails?tradeId=12&TradeName=pattern-maker

http://www.es-c.dk/dtsark/modelsne-l.pdf

If there was a paternity/alimentation case, there must be information about in in records from Aarhus county, where the mother lived, with reference to the county where the alleged father lived. These records are kept at the Provicial Archives of Northern Jutland in Viborg:

http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning/landsarkivet_for_norrejylland

Ninus writes in his letter that he is going to send money, but does he mean directly to Hilda or via official channels? The letter doesn't tell.

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

I have a cousin who lives near Aarhus and have asked him to look up the paternity records for me.  I will let you all know what he finds.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

I e-mailed my cousin and he said he would look at the paternity records at the Aahus archives.  I will let you all know what he finds.  He is an excellent researcher.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I think there are a lot of us who are really curious. Hopefully your cousin will find something.

I have looked for C.M. P's mother Karen Marie P. She was born in Hørby on 6 Oct. 1859 but I can't find her in Nørre Tranders in 1911. I haven't looked for her in FT 1916.


Eva M

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Eva,

I think that we should wait to find out what my cousin finds in the archives before we do any more research on Christian Marinus.  I really appreciate all the work and expertise you and the other members of this forum have done to help Virginia.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej alle,

I had an e-mail from my cousin and he is hoping to get to the archives in Aarhus and see if Hilda filed for child support.  As soon as I hear from him I will let you know what he finds.

mvh
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

My cousin found the protocol in the Viborg archives naming Gerda's father.  Here is his e-mail to me

      
i've found her - Bingo  !!
but as it is a protocol it is forbidden to take photocopies and it is written with so small letters it is also impossible to take a readable photo !

But but I have ordered a copy and a scanned copy of the page - will take some time !
But the father's name is Driver (profession) Kresten Valdemar Madsen of Maglene - latest adr was Sjællandsgade 32 in 1913 - are both mother and father from Aarhus - and when was the child born ?
The first statement dated ffrom 30/3-13 until 30/9-13 60 kr each time and the last payment was made 30)-23 until 30/3-24 of 78 kr.

din danske fætter Bjarne

It is the same father as her brother John Ivar Svensson.  What a story there must be behind her love for this man.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Virginia asked me to post this.  She is so thankful for all the help.

OH MY GOD, PAUL!    I AM JUST SHAKING and seem to have forgotten how to breathe!

This is the most wonderful news and I will phone my sisters this morning!  They will probably cry, I know.  We have a grandfather!   Can only hope my mother is resting easier now, too.

There is no way that we can ever thank you enough for such kind and generous help.  Please convey our most sincere thanks to Bjarne for us.

I know that Bjarne has incurred charges for the trip and the document copies and we want to reimburse him for those.  Will you please help me figure out how to do that - possibly a check by mail - and I'd need to know the amounts and an address?

I bet your smile is as big as mine this morning!

Will write more later - my typing is pretty clumsy right now . . . still shaking . . .

Most sincere thanks and hilsen, too!    Virginia


PS  Perhaps you will share the news with Anni, Inge, Eva and the others involved in this mystery on the forum - they will probably enjoy it, too . . .

mvh
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej everyone,

Here is the document from the Aarhus archives that names Kristen Valdemar Larsen as the father of Virginia's mother Gerda.  Virginia is so happy with all the information that you have given her.  I am also so grateful for all your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Inge Nissen]

Kristen Valdemar Madsen, MAGLEMER. According to www.krabsen.dk Maglemer is a location in Hunseby sogn in Musse herred, Maribo amt.

Venlig hilsen Inge

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Inge,

Thanks for the clue.  Now to look at the 1916 census.  Hopefully it is a small parish.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Unfortunately it looks like the 1916 census was written in disappearing ink.  I noticed in the 1921 payments the term Rødby.  There is a Rødby sogn in Fuglse, Maribo, but I cannot find it in the 1921 census.  Any ideas?

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Am I stupid.  I looked for Rødby in landsogn rather than kobstad.  I guess I will have to give up looking for Kristen Valdemar Madsen in the 1921 census since Rødby is a city.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[John Wrenholt]

A while ago, I was attempting to locate the person who wrote the letter from Øster Sundby.  In doing so, I tracked one of Kristen Valdemar Madsen's sisters to Maglemer but at the time I abandoned the effort because it appeared as if someone else must have been Gerda's father.

Not sure if it will be helpful now or not but here is what I found:

Sara Kristine Olivia Madsen , 20-11-1890 , Østofte in the police register.  Last entry shows that she moved to Maglemar:

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1949654&searchname=polit_simple

Her wedding in 1913 in Hunseby sogn:  1912-1923 Hunesby ops 164 number 6.  It shows that her parents, Jens Peder Madsen and Maren Johanne Hansen, are also living in Maglemer.

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Thank you so much John.  Now to try tracing his sister. 

Med venlig hilsen og mange tak fra USA
Paul

[Inger Toudal]

Here is the document from the Aarhus archives that names Kristen Valdemar Larsen as the father of Virginia's mother Gerda.  

What the document shows is that Kristen Valdemar Madsen of Maglemer paid child support to Hilda Svensson in Aarhus (the first instalment 60 kr. in April/May 1913), but I think it must be for the son born 1910. Remember - in May 1912 he paid 50 kr. which was forwarded from Copenhagen to Odense (found by Eva M):

AO, Familieretslige sager i København, BJ-Journal, Fra 1912 Til 1912, BJ-Journal med register 1912 1 - 1912 482, opslag 10, left hand page.

You might be able to find information about Gerda's father or the residence of her mother 10 months prior to birth in the birth registration protocols (Fødselsanmeldelsesprotokoller) at Erhvervsarkivet in Aarhus:

http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/kirkeboger_-_en_vejledning/kirkeboger_pa_erhvervsarkivet

- but you may as well end up with the same info already found in the church books.

The ony 100 % proof would be a paternity case (if there is one):
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning

Summing up:

Ninus writes from Odense  vs.  K.V. Madsen lives in Maglemer
Ninus' parents write from Østersundby  vs.  K. V. Madsen's parents live in Maglemer

Best regards,
Inger T.