Told og Consumtions Betjent

[Nicky Mathiesen]

In the census records of 1855 (see attachment) I have found my great-great-grandfather Martin Mathiesen and his family. His son Christian, then 4 years old, is my great-grandfather.

As is clear from the different birthplaces of the children, the family moved around quite a bit.

Might this have anything to do with his occupation as 'Told og Consumtions Betjent'?

Is there a (online) record for postings of customs personnel?

This is the last record I can find for the family, but they must have gone somewhere...

Also, even though his birthplace is given as København, I haven't been able to find any record for it.

Any help is very much appreciated!

Kind regards,
Nicky



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Ole Westermann]

Hi Nicky

Custom personnel moved often round to different cities.
There are no records online about this.
They may have stayed in København, but I don't see them in the 1880-census.

But I found these data, that might be helpful for you:

Census 1845 Skelskør
Martin Mathiesen 46  Gift  Toldbetjent København
Amalie Wulf 29  Gift  Hans kone Bregninge, Svendborg amt   (on the island Taasinge SE to Svendborg)
Klara Mathiesen 5  Ugift  Hans datter Kalundborg
Helga Mathiesen 4  Ugift  Hans datter Skælskør
Hulda Mathiesen 1  Ugift  Hans datter Skælskør

Bregninge (Svendborg,Sunds) 1813-20 at opslag 32:
Juliane Amalie Wulf born 16.oct 1816, bapt. at home 20.oct, in church 3.nov
Parents: Inderste og Søemand ('cottager' and sailor) Frederik Frederiksen Wulf in Troense and
             Hust(ru) (wife) Karen Hansdatter

Bregninge 1820-34 opslag 165 (departure list)
nr 1 Juliane Amalie Wulf  15½ - at her mother as maid - goes to Thurøe to smallholder Christen Thurøe - date 23.may 1832
Turø 1829-47 opslag 106 (departure list)
nr 26 Amalie Frederiksen 18 Tjenestepige (maid) leaves for Kjøbenhavn - date 1.may 1833 (same day as above)

And she probably stays in København (Copenhagen) and meets Martin Mathiesen there.
They did not get married in Bregninge on Taasinge (or i Kalundborg).
They probably got married in København ca 1839.

Their first child Clara Nathalia Mathiesen is born in Kalundborg (1834-44) ops. 80:
1840 nr 8 born 15.mar, bp 31.may in church

Census 1.feb.1840  - Holbæk, Ars, Kalundborg Købstad, Cordilgaden - Nordre del 2.Rode, 98 , 99 Forhuset F2, 189
Martin Mathiesen 41  Gift  Tolbetient 
Amalie Wolf 23  Gift  Hans kone 
Marie Wolf 21  Ugift  Konens søster

Here is Martin and his family in 1801 census:
København, København (Staden), Rosenborg Kvarter, Rosenborg Kvarter, Matr. 174, 1082, FT-1801, A5030
Johan Mathiasen 37  Gift Huusbond Toldbetj. 
Magdalene Colditz 37  Gift hans Kone   
Elisabeth Mathiasen 7  Ugift deres Datter   
Jens Mathiasen 6  Ugift deres Søn   
Martin Mathiasen 2  Ugift deres Søn   
Johan 'Mathiasen 1  Ugift deres Søn

Where and approx. when did your GGfather go?

Kindly
Ole

[David Peterson]

Nicky:

What other information do you have?

For example:
What happens with son Christian from that point on?
Have you traced any of the other children?
(Parents often end up with one of the children.)
Do any of this family emigrate?  When and from where?

What and where is the earliest census where you find this family?
Do you have information on the marriage of the couple?

All of these can offer clues as to the origins and subsequent whereabouts.

I imagine that a customs agent could be posted to many locations around the country.  I don't know anything about records of such postings.  The State Archives catalog lists a huge number of documents having to do with "customs", some of them going back into the 1800s.  Some of them make reference to "personnel" in the title.  I would expect that any of these documents would have to be viewed in person at the archives.

David Peterson

[Ole Westermann]

Here is Martin Matthiesens baptism:

København, Trinitatis 1793-1811 ops.100:
1799 Samme Dag (20.jan) lode Johan Matthiesen Toldbetient og Magdalena
Colditz i Gothersgaden No 212 døbe en Søn kaldet Martin; Mad(a)me Ceci-
lia Rausch bar ham og Jfr. (jomfru) Catharina Herforth holdt ham; Hr Mægler
Winther, Hr Mægler Mour og Hr. Møller Skibs Kapitain vare Faddere.

1799 Same day (20.jan) JM, custom officer MC in Gothersgade No 212 had a son baptized, named Martin.
Mdm. CR carried him and miss CH held him. Mr (ship)broker W, Mr. (ship)broker M and Mr Møller ship captain
were witnesses.

Ole

[Nicky Mathiesen]

Hi Ole, hi David,

Thank you for your help!

Christian Mathiesen emigrated to The Netherlands, where he married Gerarda Maria Louisa Kolster on 09-02-1887 in Rotterdam.

The story in the family is, that at some point after the marriage the family moved to a town (which one is unknown) in Denmark (one of Christian's sons, born 19-06-1900 and also named Christian, would remain a Danish citizen his whole life) and then moved back to Rotterdam once more, where they stay. Christian senior died in Rotterdam on 13-01-1902 in an accident, while working in the harbour.

What happened in between the last census in which I could find Christian in København and the moment he married, I'm not sure. It is certain that he worked as a sailor; he registers himself in Rotterdam as a ships' cook.

I hadn't seen Juliane Amalie on the departure list of Bregninge, thank you Ole! How can you be certain that the Martin Mathiasen you found is the same person as Martin Mathiesen?

I have tried to trace the other children, but so far, no luck. I did find a record for Juliane's death on 04-11-1867 in Silkeborg, but I can't read the document (see attachment).

The earliest census I've found is the same one that Ole found, too, in Skælskør. I haven't been able to find the marriage.

Alas, a visit to Denmark is no option in the near future, but I'm sure I will be back (I lived in København for a few months a long, long time ago).

Kind regards,
Nicky



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Nicky Mathiesen]

Ole,

You're a gem! Thank you again. It's probably a question of not getting the spelling right (Mathiasen, Matthiesen), but with the baptism, too, that should be proof enough.

They seem to have moved in the right circles, with brokers and captains -a far cry from Christain's circumstances in Rotterdam!

Kind regards,
Nicky

[Lissa Pedersen]

Wulff, Juliane Amalie

Widow after ex skipper
Mathiesen in Kbh (København), died
here by an accident
died 1867 4 Nov, 52 years
(Silkeborg churchbook)

Lissa

[Ole Westermann]

It must be

Widow after ex skipper
Mathiesen in Kbh (København), died
here by an accident
died  1867 4 Nov, 52 years
(Silkeborg churchbook)

Ole

[Lissa Pedersen]

Of course Ole

Lissa

[Ole Westermann]

Nicky

Martin Mathiesen died in København (somewhere) in 1860 (unless he died at sea?):
I found a little about his probate (skifte):

At http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside
click
Københavnske skifter
Københavns Skiftekommision indtil 1919
Reg. forseglingsprot. L-Ø
opslag 65: Mathiesen, Martin, skibsfører (skipper), 1860  5/4-2
    (the last numbers are not the date, but the number in the protocol)

The probate itself is not online. It must (still) be read at the archive.

Ole

[David Peterson]

To all looking at this...

What do you make of the apparent change in occupation?

In 1840, he is a 41-year-old Tolbetient at Kalundborg.
In the 1845 census, he is a 46-year-old Toldbetjent down at Skælskør.
In the 1855 census, he is a 54-year-old Bomforpagter on the outskirts of København. (I take this to be some sort of customs station operator.)
In 1860 he dies some somewhere in the vicinity of København and is referred to as skibsfører.
In 1867, at his widow's death, he is a former skipper from(?) Københaven.

(Nicky's document would appear to be someone's handwritten copy of what is found in the kirkebog at Silkeborg, opslag 188.  The only thing more that the book offers is that she was buried on 11 Nov.)

Did he "retire" from the customs business and "take up" boating??
Is there any reason to interpret the "i Københaven" as her actual residence in 1867, but she was "passing through" Silkeborg when she died by accident?  Or is that meant to describe where he was a skipper?

David Peterson

[Ole Westermann]

I see no problems with the change in occupation. It was far from unusual that people with another 'education' took the job
as 'toldbetjent'. MM may originally have been a sailor/skipper and before his marriage c.1839 and then changed occupation.

I think I found his father Johan Mathiasen at the census 1787:

København, København (Staden), Hof & Militæretaten, Nyboder 3.Division Artillerikompagni, Tulipangade 17, 1335, FT-1787, B5763
Christian Bloker 57  Gift Hosbonde Under Canoner udi Comp 
Marte Catarina 46  Gift Hans Kone   
Johan Mathiasen 22  Ugift En Søn Skibs Tømmer Mand udi 4.Comp   
Jacob Christoffer 15  Ugift En Søn Dreng ved Faste Stok udi 3.Comp 3.Classe

where he is a ship's carpenter (skibs tømmermand) at the naval shipyard.

MM maybe got tired of the job as custom officer (or got fired) and the took the job at the 'bomhus' in Rødovre.
But at the baptism of his son Martin Frederik Fridolin he is called 'skibsfører':
Rødovre 1839-91 ops 15:
1753 nr 129 Martin Frederik Fridolin Mathiasen born 30.November,bp i Brøndshøi? Kirke d 7 Januar 1854
Parents: Skibsfører Martin Mathiasen og Hustr Juliane Amalie Wulff 34 Aar gl - i Damhuus Bommen ved Rødovre
Witn: Jfr Caroline Fo... , Jfr Hulda F......, Student August Christensen, alle af Vesterbro, Gaardeier .... Christensen i Rødovre

At https://www.rk.dk/lokalhistorisk-samling/roedovres-historie/damhuskroen/
you see the 'bomhus' just in front of the inn 'Damhuskroen'.
You can also see it at http://www.roskildehistorie.dk/gader/Koebenhavnsvej/bomhuse/bomhus.htm

It was a place where people using the road from Roskilde to København had to pay to use the road (road-pricing !).
The money were used to maintain the road.

Nicky's document is from the excellent and very usefull site http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/sogeside.asp and very reliable.

We don't know why Juliane Amalie Wulf was in Silkeborg. Did she move there or was she visiting family?

Ole

[Ole Westermann]

Nicky,

I have a cousin working as archivist at the City Archive in København, and she was so kind to check
the burial protocols to find the burial of Martin Mathiesen.
He was not there 1858-62 ! So it is very possible that he could have died at sea while working as skipper.
And it is very reasonable to believe, that the probate (skifte) in 1860 can reveal that (and several other things too).

Ole

[Inger Toudal]

Ole,

According to http://www.ksa.kk.dk/finddinslagt/personregistrering/Begravelser:

In the period 1805 to 1860 only burials at Assistens Kirkegaard in Copenhagen were registered in the burial protocols.

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

[Ole Westermann]

Inger,

Thank you, I was not aware of that.

Ole

[Nicky Mathiesen]

Thank you all for your information and help!

I can hardly keep up with everything you've found and have been able to tell me.

Ole, the probate for Martin Mathiesen makes me very curious indeed... Something to look into when I finally make it back to København. Someday... And thank your cousin for me, it was very kind of her to take the trouble!

Unfortunately, still no further with finding information on Christian Mathiesen between 1855 en 1887, or even after 1887, when it is said he took his family to Denmark (Næstved?, maybe) for some years before coming back to Rotterdam, The Netherlands once more.

Also, still no luck in finding Christian's sisters.

What I can tell you is that the seafaring gene carried on for 5 generations: from Johan to Martin to Christian to his sons Martin, Christian and Adrianus Johannes (my grandfather) and to all Adrianus' sons yet again!

David: the list is even longer: after Skælskør, Martin is also listed in Præsto and Næstved as customs personel, before showing up in København.

Throughout the family-tree, I see many occurences of careerchange, especially with the seafaring men. They seem to be a restles lot!

Lissa, thank you for your translation and Inger, thank you for the extra information.

Kind regards,

Nicky

[John Wrenholt]

Skanderborg, Gjern, Silkeborg Handelsplads, Silkeborg Købstad, , Østergade No 20 Forhuset, 1, FT-1870
Frederik Philipsen   44   Gift   Husfader   Købmand   Grønhøj, Frederiks Sogn Viborg Amt
Clara Nathalie Philipsen   29   Gift   Husmoder      Kalundborg Sogn Holbæk Amt
Peter Philipsen   15   Ugift   Søn   Slagterlærlig   Silkeborg
Kirstine Philipsen   13   Ugift   Datter      Silkeborg
Marthine Frederikke Philipsen [ Martine Frederikke Philipsen]   4   Ugift   Datter      Silkeborg
Betty Amalie Philipsen   2   Ugift   Datter      Silkeborg
Peter Christian Sørensen   18   Ugift   Tyende   Slagterlærlig   Lemming Sogn Viborg Amt
Comments: Clare Natalie Mathiasen. Født 13. marts 1840 i Kalundborg. Datter af Toldassistent Mathiasen. Ved ikke helt hvilken stavemåde der holder.

This is the oldest daughter living in Silkeborg in 1870.  Probably the mother was visiting or living with her at the time of her death in 1867.

[Lissa Pedersen]

Clara etc.:

skanderborg, Gjern, Silkeborg Handelsplads, Østergade, , Østergade Mat 34 Forhuset Gade No 4, 158, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Clara Nathalie Philipsen født Mathisen 39  Enke (widow) Slagter, Husmoder  Kalundborg Sogn Holbæk Amt
Jens Peter Philipsen 25  Ugift Slagter, Hendes Stedsøn  (stepson) Silkeborg
Magrethe Christine Philipsen 23  Ugift Hendes Steddatter  (stepdaughter) Silkeborg
Marthine Frederikke Philipsen 14  Ugift Hendes Datter (daughter) Silkeborg
Bette Amalie Philipsen 12  Ugift Hendes Datter  (daughter) Silkeborg

skanderborg, Gjern, Silkeborg Handelsplads, Silkeborg Købstad, , , 1, FT-1890
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
.....
.....
Klara Philipsen 48  Enke Husmoder Slagter Kalundborg Sogn Holbæk Amt
Marthine Thøgersen 24  Gift (married) Datter (daughter) Silkeborg
Betty Philipsen 22  Ugift Datter  (daughter) Silkeborg
Nanna Thøgersen 1  Ugift Datters barn  (daughter's child) Odder Sogn Århus Amt
....
....

Lissa

[John Wrenholt]

Skanderborg, Gjern, Silkeborg Handelsplads, Silkeborg Købstad, , Nygade No 91 Kvisten, 3, FT-1870
Anders Peter Jensen   25   Gift   Husfader   Fabriksarbejder   Harlev Sogn Århus Amt
Karoline Elisabeth Jensen født Mathisen   20   Gift   Hans Kone      Præstø
Betty Marie Nielsen   23   Gift   Hendes Søster   Fabriksarbejderske   Præstø
Comments: Betty Marie Mathiesen. Født 17. august 1846 i Præstø Datter af Toldbetjent Mathiesen. Blev. gift 2. gang 11. februar 1877 i Silkeborg med Lars Christian Michaelsen. (se løbenummer 185).

Two more daughters in Silkeborg.

[John Wrenholt]

Sept 20, 1868 Hulda Rosalie Matthiessen married Vigo Rudolph Ferdinand Kempel in Helsingør.

1857-1882 Helsingør Skt Olai, Frederiksborg ops 88

[John Wrenholt]

More records, some of which appear to contain a København street address but I can't read it well enough to identify.

Birth of Carl Conrad Mathiesen (1856)    1856-1861 Vor Frelser ops 15 item 135
Death of a Martin Mathiesen (1860)         1852-1866 Vor Frelser ops 63 item 9
Confirmation of Helka Magdalene (1856)    1856-1872 Vor Frelser ops 127 item 1

[Ole Westermann]

Well done, John

I read:

Birth of Carl Conrad Mathiesen (1856)    1856-1861 Vor Frelser ops 15 item 135
living Amagerbro 14; witnesses: the mother, miss Clara Mathiesen (same place) and Skipper Wulf on Amager

Death of a Martin Mathiesen (1860)         1852-1866 Vor Frelser ops 63 item 9
died 12.jan buried 20.jan 1860 Arbmd (arbejdsmand (worker)) Martin Mathiesen, Dronningensgade 25
buried in Fattig Kgd (paupers' burial ground)

Confirmation of Helka Magdalene (1856)    1856-1872 Vor Frelser ops 127 item 1
Father Toldassistent MM in Sundbyvester

Ole

[Ole Westermann]

According to http://www.skippere.dk/folder/
Martin Mathiesen, age 22, born and living in København, got his skipper exam 26.march 1821; note: TOLDBETJENT; died 1860.

Ole

[Inger Toudal]

1860 d. 12 Januar. 1860 d. 20 Januar. Martin Mathiesen. Arbmd Martin Mathiesen, Dronn gd 25. 61. Fattig Kkgd.

I found Martin Mathiesens's widow and six children at the above address in the 1860 census (taken 1 Feb. 1860):

AO: Folketællinger, 1860, København, Christianshavns Kvarter, Matr. Nr. 200-299, opslag 52.

Best regards,
Inger T.

[Ole Westermann]

Looking at Juliane Amalie Wulf's family 1840:

Svendborg, Sunds, Bregninge (Taasinge), Troense, 3, et huus, 175-F3, FT-1840, B1867
Frederik Frederiksen Wulff 51  Gift  Inderste og Søemand 
Karen Hansdatter 49  Gift  Hans kone 
Niels Frederiksen Wulff 26  Ugift  deres Søn, Styrmand ('skipper') 
Hans Frederiksen Wullf 20  Ugift  deres Søn, Matros 
Christiane Frederiksen Wulff 14  Ugift  deres Børn 
Ane Kirstine Frederiksen Wulff 9  Ugift  deres Børn

we see that her 2 brothers Niels and Hans became sailors.
And it is reasonable to believe, that one of them could be the 'Skipper Wulf on Amager' at Conrad's baptism in 1856.
So maybe Christian Mathiesen joined him as a teenager and ended in Rotterdam ?!

Ole

[Nicky Mathiesen]

Hello all,

Lissa and John: incredible! You night owls... Finding three daughters in Silkeborg certainly explaines why Juliane was there at the time of her death.

And a sister in Helsingør to boot!

Inger: this is truly wonderful. The first data after 1855! I'm very much impressed. Even with the very faint handwriting you found them -and found confirmation of Martins'death. How he suddenly came to be an 'arbejdsmand' is a bit of a mystery to me.

I'm also a bit unclear on Carl Conrad: is he Juliane's son, or Clara's? He doesn't seem to be part of Clara's household after she marries Frederik Philipsen, but maybe I've got that wrong.

Ole, first the 'bomhus' and now the skipper exam; it makes it all that much more real. Thank you!

It is strange to realize I must have walked on Dronningensgade - I certainly remember the Vor Frelsers Kirke, with its characteristic spire.

I cannot thank you all enough!

Kind regards,
Nicky

[Inger Toudal]

Carl Conrad is Martin's and Juliane's son.

The witnesses at the baptism are:

Moderen og Jfr Clara Mathiesen Sstd og Skipper Wulf paa Amager.

So he was probably carried by his mother, and Clara was his godmother.

Best regards,
Inger T.