Holbaek in Sjaelland

Startet af Julie Pickett, 30 Dec 2010 - 05:06

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Julie Pickett

This looks like the same family in 1834:

Holbæk, Merløse, Nørre Jernløse, Nørrejernløse Bye, , et Huus, 31, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Rasmus Jeppesen 73  Gift  Huusmand 
Ane Hansdatter 61  Gift  hans Kone 
Else Rasmusdatter 36  Ugift  deres Datter, Væverske 
Hans Christiansen 7  Ugift  Væverskens Søn

Julie Pickett

#31
I found Rasmus Jeppesen's death record. He died 14 Feb 1838 in Norre Jernlose. He was 77 years old. No other helpful information was included from what I can tell. There is a column with a number reference, but I don't know what that means - referring to another record book?? (Norre Jernlose, 1813-1843, opslag 413.)

Perhaps he was born in Norre Jernlose. I'll look for his birth there.

Julie

Julie Pickett

I have been unable to locate Ane Hansdatter for certain in the 1840 census (found some possibilities, but don't know for sure). I did find her daughter Else and her grandson Hans:

Holbæk, Merløse, Sønder Jernløse, Lille Knabstrup Bye, , en Gaard, 50, FT-1840
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Frederik Johansen 49  Gift  Gaardmand 
Else Rasmusdatter 43  Gift  hans Kone 
Hans Christiansen 13  Ugift  deres Børn 
Rasmus Frederiksen 2  Ugift  deres Børn 
Niels Hansen 22  Ugift  Tjenestefolk 
Kirsten Frederiksdatter 23  Ugift  Tjenestefolk

Chris Nelson

Such is genealogy... everything seems to point in one direction, then a small clue brings us in another.

Thank you!!

Julie Pickett

So true!

I found Rasmus' and Ane's marriage record (I think). It looks pretty basic, but is a little difficult to read. It is in Norre Jernlose 1744 - 1800, opslag 98 (on the far right side in the middle). It looks to me like they were married 16 May 1796. There is no parental information.

I found 3 1787 census possibilities for Rasmus Jeppesen, but none of them are from Holbaek, so it's hard to know if any of the 3 are the right one.

Regards,

Julie

Jeppe Juel Jensen

Hej.

The marriage of Rasmus and Anna:

Fer. 2 Pascat. d. 16 Maji.
Ungkarl Rasmus Jeppesen og
Pigen Anna Hansdatter i Nørre Jernløse.
-------------
Rasmus born in Nr. Jernløse 1763, opslag 140.

Fest. Annunciat. Maria.  Baptizat:
Jep Andersen og Hustru i Han-
erup, deres drengebarn Noe:
RASMUS.
Kirsten Andersdatter bar det.
Testes: Søfren Christensen, Jens Michelsen
Anders Hansens Hustru og Bødkerens hustru ibid.
--------------
His parents:
Nr. Jernløse. 1755. Dom 1 p Epiph. (opslag 44)
Disponsati:
Jep Andersen fra Nørre Jernløse og Else Christophers
datter, Rasmus Pedersens Enke i Hanerup.
Sponsores: Jens Jørgensen i Nr. Jernløse og
Mads Hansen i Torstrup
--------
Dom Oculi Copulat. i Br. Jernløse:
Jep Andersen og Else Christophersdatter i Hanerup..
-------.
Jep/Jeppe born abt. 1730.  dead 1793 i Nr, Jernløse.
Else born abt 1720. dead 1776 i Nr. Jernløse  (Jep/Jeppe Remarried.)
-----------------

Holbæk, Merløse, Nørre Jernløse, Hanerup, , 84, FT-1787, C0097

Jeppe Andersen 62  Gift Hosbonde Bonde Gaardbeboere 
Maren Rasmusdatter 44  Gift Madmoder   
Anders Ipsen 25  Ugift ægte Sønner af Mandens 1ste Egteskab   
Rasmus Ipsen 23  Ugift ægte Sønner af Mandens 1ste Egteskab   
Karen Olsdatter 12  Ugift Mandens Datter Datter   
Kirsten Jensdatter 19  Ugift Tieneste Pige   
-------------------
Jep = Jeppe = Ip.
----------------------
Peder born 1807 19 Juli. (opslag 19) Nr. Jernløse.

Rasmus Jeppesens S: Peder
af Nørre Jernløse. Faddere El-
sa Christensdatter. Gmd. Lars Hansen
og Anders Jeppesen (the fathers brother)
Alle Af Nr- Jernløse.
Daaben confirmeret 11 søndag efter Trin. d. 9 August.

mvh. jeppe

Julie Pickett

Hello Jeppe,

Very nice work! I hadn't quite made it to 1763. I started reading the records in 1760, not knowing for sure when he was born. Those records are difficult for me to read, so it was slow going. Also, I did not know Jep = Jeppe = Ip. That is very helpful.

I hope your New Year is off to a very nice start. :)

Julie


Julie Pickett

#37
Since Jeppe so nicely wrapped up the males in Frederik's paternal line, I thought I would start working on his mother Karen Christensdatter's family.

Based on the census information giving her birth place as Kundby, I found a baptism record for a Karen Christensdatter, born to a Christen Nielsen, which mostly confirms this census information that Lissa originally found (reposting it here for quick reference):

holbaek, Tuse, Kundby, Kundby, en Gaard, 17, FT-1834, C4587
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Christen Nielsen 52  Gift  Gaardmand 
Bodil Larsdatter 50  Gift  Hans kone 
Niels Christensen 15  Ugift  Deres børn 
Karen Christensdatter 22  Ugift  Deres børn 
Ane Christensdatter 21  Ugift  Deres børn 
Niels Madsen 29  Ugift  Tjenestekarl

I'm just not sure by reading the record that I found who exactly the mother is or if she is even listed. Would somebody please look at Kundby, Tuse, Holbæk, 1769 - 1814, opslag 137 and tell me if you think this is the right record and the pertinent information from it? I did read all of the baptismal records from 1810 - 1814 and this is the only Karen Christensdatter that I saw.

Edited to add that I found Karen's confirmation record in Kundby, Tuse, Holbaek, 1813 - 1842, opslag 222. It is straightforward, but there is a word after Christen Nielsen's name that looks like "Trolle." What does that mean? (Edited again to say that I figured out what the Trolle means - it was his father's surname. See post below.)

Gratefully,

Julie

Julie Pickett

I have located the marriage record for Karen's parents, Christen Nielsen and Bodil Larsdatter. They were married 18 Nov 1808 in Kundby. This record is located in Kundby, Tuse, Holbaek, 1769 - 1814, opslag 43. It says that Christen is from Kundby (which we knew from other records). It also looks like there is a location listed after Bodil's name, but I can't make out what it says. Would somebody mind looking at that record to see what it says?

Thank you,

Julie

Julie Pickett

Posting this census record for reference. I think we have another generation!

Holbæk, Tuse, Kundby, Kundby By, , , 2, FT-1787
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Niels Trolle 42  Gift Husbonde Bonde og gårdbeboer 
Margrete Hansdatter 36  Gift Madmoder   
Karen Nielsdatter 14  Ugift Deres barn   
Hans Nielsen 10  Ugift Deres barn   
Niels Nielsen 8  Ugift Deres barn   
Christen Nielsen 5  Ugift Deres barn

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

Hi Julie,

"I have located the marriage record for Karen's parents, Christen Nielsen and Bodil Larsdatter. They were married 18 Nov 1808 in Kundby. This record is located in Kundby, Tuse, Holbaek, 1769 - 1814, opslag 43. It says that Christen is from Kundby (which we knew from other records). It also looks like there is a location listed after Bodil's name, but I can't make out what it says. Would somebody mind looking at that record to see what it says? "

Bodils is Lars Dt. = Larsdatter

Cannot read the placename.

Lissa

Julie Pickett

I have been trying to locate Christen Nielsen Trolle's birth record (abt 1782), but haven't found it yet. Those older records are difficult to read, especially when one doesn't speak or read Danish. :)

However, I think I had success location his father Niels Trolle's birth record on 19 Feb 1747. The year is slightly off from the census, but the Kundby baptismal records from 1743-1747 are pretty easy to read and I don't think that I missed another Niels Trolle.

I found it in Kundby 1720-1769, opslag 60. I don't believe his mother's name is listed to confirm that she is Margrete Hansdatter.

I do think that I found Margrete Hansdatter in the 1801 census, remarried to Ole Nielsen. I have not found Niels Trolle's death record yet, but it should be between 1787 and 1801 in Kundby.

Holbæk, Tuse, Kundby, Kundbye Bye, , , 2, FT-1801
Ole Nielsen 40 Gift husbond bonde og gårdbeboer
Margrete Hansdatter 51 Gift hans kone
Hans Nielsen 25 Ugift hendes børn
Christen Nielsen 17 Ugift hendes børn
Peder Nielsen 12 Ugift hendes børn
Maren Jensdatter 22 Ugift tjenestefolk
Christiana Carolina 6 Ugift et plejebarn fra Helsingør

Side note: Kundby must have had a strong military presence in the mid 18th century as a lot of people have military titles in front of their names.

Regards,

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

#42
Hi Julie,

Found a probate reference on:  http://myweb.cableone.net/jopassey/vognsrpx.htm - perhaps you can find more probates on the website - a.o. there are more Trolle people there (I know that the owner of the website, Aurelia Clemons, has done a lot of transcribing in Tuse district, as she has ancestors that came from the area):

Christen Nielsen Trolle gmd i Kundby       1835 3 Mar       Pg 831  #4
WIFE:- Bodil Larsdtr CH:-     Kirsten Christensdtr  = Christian Frederich Hagendrup, hiulmand
        Karen Christensdtr
        Ane Christensdtr  both ugift
        Niels Christensen        15
[Vognserup gods; 1718-1765 & 1766-1838; films 41406 & 41407]

Niels Christensen Trolle gmd i Kundbye     1796 7 Jul       pg 395,7
WIFE - Margrethe Hansdtr
CH:-     Hans Nielsen      19
         Niels Nielsen      15
         Christen Nielsen      10
         Peder Nielsen      6
WIFE.BRO -       Bendt Christensen Trolle i Gislinge
wgd: - Frederich Johansen/Involsen gmd of here
[Vognserup gods; 1718-1765 & 1766-1838; films 41406 & 41407]

Could be that you will find some death dates.

Lissa


Julie Pickett

For the record, I have Niels Christensen and Margrethe Hansdatter's 20 Oct 1771 marriage record from Kundby 1769-1814 opslag 5. It is straightfoward. I just didn't want anybody spending their time looking for it when I already have it. :)

Regards,

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

A bit more from same page:

Bodil Larsdtr enke (widow) i Kundbye 31 Mar 1839 #6    pg 15 18 21
HUSB:   Christen Nielsen Trolle gmd (dod  = dead)
CH:     Kirsten Christensdtr = Christian Nielsen Frolich hjulmand i Hagendrup
        Karen Christensdtr   = Peder Rasmussen hmd/bmd i Lille Borup
        Ane Christensdtr     25 ugift
        Niels Christensen             19  - both home
BRO?:   Jorgen Larsen drengen i Kundbye ( by: Jens Nielsen gmd i Kundbye)
gd: Lars Larsen smed i Benneboe
[Vognserup gods; Book 3 1838-1850; film 41408]

Lissa

Julie Pickett

Hello Lissa,

That is all very good and helpful information - thank you!

I think that when I come back to this later today, I am going to create a GEDCOM file with what we know so far so that I can keep track of all of this information and have a ready reference.

Kundby records are wonderful to use and the name Trolle has made this a little easier to research!

Kind regards,

Julie

Julie Pickett

One other thing before I go - I found a death record that includes Christen Nielsen Trolle's name, but I'm not sure in what context he is mentioned. If somebody could look at this and let me know the gist of it and whether or not it pertains to our research, I would appreciate it.

Kundby, Tuse, Holbaek, 1769-1814, opslag 142, the second entry on the left page.

Thank you,

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

#47
Hi Julie,

Could be that would be a good idea .. I cannot follow it very much any more, but hopefully you can. Perhaps you could sum up later what you have or need to find, then we need not go through all that is written, or you could ask for specific help, when needed.

Lissa

"Same day (3 Dec 1769) Christen Nielsen Trolle in Kundbye had his wife, Karen Bentsdatter burried ?9 years old".

PS: Can you use this:

Karen Bendtsdtr i Kundbye         1769 29 Dec       Pg 59
HUSB - Christen Nielsen Trolle gmd
CH:-     Niels Christensen        23
        Bendt Christensen        15
        Kirsten Christensdtr     19
        Bodil Christensdtr       9
[Vognserup gods; 1718-1765 & 1766-1838; films 41406 & 41407]


Julie Pickett

#48
I was thinking the same thing, Lissa. Rather than expect the kind helpers here to wade through this whole thread, I will organize what we know and don't know and make a list of questions and records that need looked at for help with words, translations, etc. I will do this summary later today.

Thank you,

Julie


Julie Pickett

#49
It's taking some time to enter all of the information into the tree, but here is the descendancy chart for Jep Andersen to Frederik Pedersen, who is the person that emigrated to the United States. Jep Andersen is the end of the line because Norre Jernlose's records only go back to 1743.



I don't think that I have any questions on the records for the males in this line (other than date translations! :) ).

To sum up the records still needed for Frederik's line:

Frederik's and Ane Marie Nor-Jensen's marriage record. We think it occured in Denmark between 1871 and 1873, but are not sure where.

Peder Rasmussen and Karen Christensen's marriage record. (Edited - no longer needed as Jeppe found this one.)

Karen Christendatter's death record. Supposedly, her husband Peder died 16 Dec 1896 in Frederiksværk, Strø, Frederiksborg, but there are no records for that location and time. We are not sure when and where Karen died.

Anna Hansdatter - need birth and death records and parental information. I think that she may have remarried a Peder Larsen after her husband Rasmus Jeppesen died (although, at the moment, I don't recall how I arrived at this conclusion!). If that is correct, then I believe that I found her death record at Norre Jernlose, Merlose, Holbaek,  1842-1864 ops 23

I have started working on Karen Christendatter's line (see previous posts by Lissa and me if interested) or I plan on summarizing her information tomorrow.

Kind regards,

Julie

Jeppe Juel Jensen

Hi.

The marriage of Peder R. and Karen C:

Kundby. 1835. 10 marts i Kirken.  (opslag 216. 1833- 51)

Ungkarl Peder Rasmusen af Holbek. 28 Aar.
Pige Karen Christensdatter af Kundbye. 22 Aar.
Forlovere:
Gmd. Jens Frederiksen, Gmd Christen Nielsen, begge af Kundbye.
----------------------

The m. of Christen Nielsen and Bodil Larsd.

Kundby. 1808. (opslag 43. 1769-1814)
Fredagen d. 18 Novemb. blev Ungkarl Christen Nielsen
af Kundbye og Pigen Bodil Larsdr. af Vognserup
ægteviede.
Som Forlovere underskriver: Ole Nielsen og Frideric Josvasøn-
-----------------------
mvh. jeppe.

Chris Nelson

Trolle! That's very similar to the name "Stroll" that has been passed down in family lore, as one of Karen's names was "Karen Christensen Stroll".

Julie Pickett

Jeppe, thank you very much for finding those records!

I'm working on the next branch in this tree and have been trying to find Bodil Larsdatter's birth record, but haven't had success. From what I can tell, she was born  about 1786. Her death record says that she was 53 years old when she died in 1839. (1833-1851 Kundby, Tuse, Holbaek, opslag 432). This record said that she was born in Ho'det. I've been assuming that Ho'det is in Kundby, but perhaps that is a wrong assumption. I have tried googling Ho'det, but have not been able to find out anything about it.

I have read the 1769 - 1814 Kundby christening records for the years 1784 - 1787 (opslags 87-96) several times and I'm not finding it. I also looked for her confirmation record in that same set of records and didn't find it either. This makes me wonder if Ho'det is not in Kundby. Any suggestions on how to locate Ho'det?

Here is the other information I have on Bodil:

Marriage record information from Jeppe:

The m. of Christen Nielsen and Bodil Larsd.
Kundby. 1808. (opslag 43. 1769-1814)
Fredagen d. 18 Novemb. blev Ungkarl Christen Nielsen
af Kundbye og Pigen Bodil Larsdr. af Vognserup
ægteviede.
Som Forlovere underskriver: Ole Nielsen og Frideric Josvasøn-

Here is her probate info from Lissa:

Bodil Larsdtr enke (widow) i Kundbye 31 Mar 1839 #6    pg 15 18 21
HUSB:   Christen Nielsen Trolle gmd (dod  = dead)
CH:     Kirsten Christensdtr = Christian Nielsen Frolich hjulmand i Hagendrup
        Karen Christensdtr   = Peder Rasmussen hmd/bmd i Lille Borup
        Ane Christensdtr     25 ugift
        Niels Christensen             19  - both home
BRO?:   Jorgen Larsen drengen i Kundbye ( by: Jens Nielsen gmd i Kundbye)
gd: Lars Larsen smed i Benneboe
[Vognserup gods; Book 3 1838-1850; film 41408]

----------------------------------

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

#53
Hi Julie,

There is a small village in Jyderup parish called Höed/Høed. I have found a Bodil Larsdatter born ?? 1785 to Lars Jensen - opslag 52 - Jyderup-Holmstrup parish, Tuse district, Holbaek county - first entry on the right side. Please take a look, it might be her since Ho'det could be translated to Höed/Høed.

If it's her, then you have this census - 1787:

holbaek, Tuse, Jyderup, Høed By, , 78, FT-1787, B7265
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Jensen 32  Gift Mand Husmand og hjulmand  
Mette Pedersdatter 30  Gift Hans kone  
Hans Larsen 5  Ugift Deres barn  
Bodild Larsdatter 2  Ugift Deres barn

Her confirmation might be on opslag 130 - No. 16 on the page - same book.

Please give it a try.

holbaek, Tuse, Jyderup, Höed Bye, , 11, FT-1801, C0099
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Jensen 46  Gift mand husmand med jord og tømmermand 
Mette Pedersdatter 44  Gift hans kone   
Ane Larsdatter 9  Ugift deres børn   
Else Larsdatter 6  Ugift deres børn   
Lars Larsen 4  Ugift deres børn   
Jens Larsen 81  Enkemand mandens far hjulmand (the father of Lars)

Lissa


Julie Pickett

#54
Thank you, Lissa. That would be wonderful if this is the correct Bodil. Then we would know her grandfather!

I don't exactly know how to connect the Bodil that you found to the one who married Christen Nielsen. I suppose I could see if any of her other family members ended up in Kundby.

Thank you very much for the good lead!

Regards,

Julie

Edited to add: I noticed in Bodil's probate record that it says:
BRO?:   Jorgen Larsen drengen i Kundbye ( by: Jens Nielsen gmd i Kundbye)

Is this saying that she had a brother Jorgen Larsen in Kundbye? If so, I don't see that he fits into the censuses that you found for the Höed Bye Bodil.

Jeppe Juel Jensen

Hi.

This must be the brother of Bodil!  The blacksmith. Born in Jyderup.



Holbæk, Tuse, Skamstrup, Benneboe Bye, Et hus, 52, FT-1840, B7759

Lars Larsen 43  Gift  Smed 
Mette Marie Sørensen 43  Gift  Hans kone 
Jens Peter Larsen 17  Ugift  Deres barn 
Mette Larsen 14  Ugift  Deres barn 
Laurine Larsen 12  Ugift  Deres barn 
Lars Christian Larsen 8  Ugift  Deres barn 
Sidse Marie Larsen 6  Ugift  Deres barn 
Niels Christesen 20  Ugift  Tjenestefolk

-----------------------
Holbæk, Tuse, Skamstrup, Benneboe bye, Et Huus, 53, FT-1850, C6063

Lars Larsen 53  Gift  Huusfader og Smed Jyderup
Mette M. Sørensen 53  Gift  Hans kone Holmstrup
Jens Peter Larsen 27  Ugift  Deres børn I sognet [Skamstrup]
Lars Chr. Larsen 19  Ugift  Deres børn I sognet [Skamstrup]
Sidse M. Larsen 16  Ugift  Deres børn I sognet [Skamstrup]
Karen M. Madsen 12  Ugift  Deres børn, Pleiedatter I sognet [Skamstrup]
Mette Larsen 24  Gift  Deres børn I sognet [Skamstrup]
Niels Zacharias Christensen 27  Gift  Datterens mand, svend Sønder Jernløse
Lauritz Nielsen 3  Ugift
----------------------

mvh. jeppe

Jeppe Juel Jensen

#56
Hi.

And this !

Mette Pedersdtr i Hoed    13 Jul 1827      pg 77
HUSB:    Lars Jensen hmd
CH:      Hans Larsen      44 bmd i Gothaab
        Bodil Larsdtr    = Christen Nielsen gmd i Kundbye  
        Jens Larsen      33
        Else Larsdtr     = Jeppe Andersen
        Lars Larsen      30
        Ane Larsdtr (dod)
          CH:   Jens ...         14
[Agersvold gods, Holbaek; Bk 3 1809-1842; film 41074]

mvh. jeppe

And KB Jyderup sogn. 1785. (opslag 52)

Samme Dag (22 Tr. søndag) døbt Huusmand i Høed
Lars Jensens Datter og kaldet BODILD.
Baaren af Hmd. Bonde Larsens kone
i Jyderup. Faddere: Hmd. Hans Christensen
og  Frands Konradsen. Hmd. Jens Andersen,
Ungkarl Jens Jensen og Hmd. Niels Ras-
mussens kone, alle af Høed.
------------------
1827. Den 18de Juli. (opslag 422)
Mette Pedersdatter.
Huusmand og Hjulmand Lars Jensens kone i Høed.
70 Aar.
-------------

-----------------------

Julie Pickett

Thank you very much Jeppe and Lissa. You have definitely found the right Bodil Larsdatter family.

I will put this information into the tree I'm building and then summarize this family line and post any lingering questions.

Thanks again. Your help has been enormous!

Julie

Lissa Pedersen

#58
Hi Julie,

That's great.

I searched the internet for Høed+Jyderup and found that the village Høed is on Facebook - there is a small, fine map so you can see where Høed is. There are also a large number of pictures of all the houses in Høed: "Høed - past and present" (Høed - før og nu). Also found a number of old photos there - old houses, school photos, a mill etc.

Here you will find photos from Kundby: http://www.google.dk/images?hl=da&q=Kundby%2Bbilleder&rlz=1R2SKPB_daDK367&wrapid=tlif12941618828071&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=4lcjTb3jGZH24gaD_7GGAg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQsAQwAA&biw=1007&bih=645

And here: http://www.holbaeknettet.dk/Site.aspx?UnderSideID=9117&UnderExpand=17700&LangRef=1&MenuID=1170&ExpandID=7642&parentID=&title=Torslunde&template=../templates_under/1_standard_layout.asp&ArticleID=17700

Options on the right side of the website.

Søndersted: http://www.google.dk/images?um=1&hl=da&rlz=1R2SKPB_daDK367&biw=1021&bih=622&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=S%C3%B8ndersted%2BSj%C3%A6lland%2Bbilleder&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=


Lissa

PS: Have you tried to find the births of Bodil's siblings in Jyderup?

Julie Pickett

Hi Lissa,

I will check out Facebook for Høed. I would love to see a map and photos. Thanks for the tip!

I have not looked for her siblings' births. Right now I am sticking to the main lines unless I have to go to siblings for clues or supporting information. I still have several main branches to work on. If I have time when all of the main lines are done, I will fill in other family members so that a nicely documented tree is availabe on Ancestry.com for other descendants.

Thanks again for all of your help. I definitely would not be this far without your, Jeppe's, and others' help!

Kind Regards,

Julie