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[Jack Frost]

What are the household status and marital status of Thorine Marie Bohm?


https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/38107/981

[Jack Frost]

divorced wife and boarder?

[Ole Westermann]

Thorine Marie Bøhm - Logerende (lodging) Kone (woman) - divorced (fraskilt) - age 53 - born in Christiania (now Oslo)
and she has 4 unmarried children, the sons are sailors, all born in Laurvig (Larvik)

Maybe you should also send Litta Olsen a personal message to tell her, that you have made a request.
Click her name and then Send personlig besked.

[Jack Frost]

Thanks.  I'll try that.

In the 1875 Census, ten years later, Thorine Bohm is listed as "e" which I assume means widowed. 

[Jack Frost]

Does entry #48 state that the father of Johan Fredrik Bohm is Gullick Jakobsen?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-B3PP-49N6?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A683P-GWFB&action=view

[Ole Westermann]

Yes, e meas enke - widow
Gullik Jacobsen is best man and not father of JFB.

[Jack Frost]

Is father identified?

[Ole Westermann]

No.  But I found birth and baptism of Johan Frederik in Larvik
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7778/88  nr.12 born Oct.26, 1841, parents Kjøbmand (merchant) Frederk Bøhm and wife Thorine Marie born Carstensen. - So he seems to be Svends grandson.

[Jack Frost]

No.  But I found birth and baptism of Johan Frederik in Larvik
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/7778/88  nr.12 born Oct.26, 1841, parents Kjøbmand (merchant) Frederk Bøhm and wife Thorine Marie born Carstensen. - So he seems to be Svends grandson.

Yes.

[Jack Frost]

Looking for a translation for entry #67, Anne Kirstine Hansdatter.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/2926/189

[Jack Frost]

Also, #17, same name. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-13PP-W9DJ?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A683P-3L4L&action=view

[Ole Westermann]

67. AKH born 1788 staying at Kirkebakken B by wheelmaker Tilemann
17. AKH pensioner b.1788 staying at Næss

[Jack Frost]

1801 Census: Need to confirm 3rd family on left, Peder Hansen is on his second marriage and employed as a sheriff.  His wife is on her first marriage.  They live in Hedrum, Norway.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/58299/4

[Jack Frost]

And, is daughter Anne Kirstine from his first marriage?

[Jack Frost]

Can I get marriage translations for:

next to last entry on right page
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8250/40656/3

last entry on left page
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8245/84433/16

Is it the same Peder Hansen?  Name of brides?  Are parents or ages stated?  Is the 1792 marriage a second marriage? Anything else of note?

[Ole Westermann]

1801 Census
Peder Hansen              Husband      46  2.marriage    Place with land and lord lieutenant (lensmand)
Inger Christophersd.      his wife        30  1.  -
Hans Pedersen  &
Ane Ki(r)stine Pedersd  children from his 1.marriage
  ---------------
next to last entry on right page  on 29.jan.1784
Peder Hansen Westfossen, bachelor & Inger Marie Hansdatter, girl  - no parents or age
  --------------
Ao. 1792 the 19th of July married Leensmand* Sr. Peder Hansen
and Miss Inger Christophersd. Norbye, and that nothing agianst the law
can hinder this marriage therefore we signing witnesses and best men guarantee
  Christopher Jacobsen (prob. her father)

The 2 PH could be the same person -  as Hans from his 1.marriage could well be named after IMH's father Hans

Try to find the baptism of Hans and Anne Kirstine.

[Jack Frost]

Thanks.

leensmand = sheriff?
Johan Frederick Bohm wrote that his grandmother's father was sheriff of Hedrum.  His grandmother being the wife of his grandfather Svend Bohm (first wife unknown, second wife was Anne Kirstine Hansen)

Is Norbye the name of a person or place?

Why the name Westfossen?

[Ole Westermann]

Lensmand - my dictionary says: lord lieutenant - royal official over a district (len) - by the family called sheriff
    see https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Norwegian_Len
Vestfossen is a city north to Larvik near Drammen - you can google it
Norbye is a kind of surname/nickname -  Christopher Jacobsen prob. also was called CJ Norbye

I also noticed this https://forum.slaegt.dk/index.php/topic,197367.0.html about Martin Paaske Böhme died 1859, July 6 on the island Als east to Sønderborg.

Martin Paaske Böhme, told to be a son of schoolteacher in Gjedser on Falster Johan Gottlieb Böhme, born 7. April 1787
Pensioner at his son blacksmith Mads Böhme in Lambjergskov. Married to Marie Madsen, who died 1848
72 ½ Aar
Father to 4 sons, of which 3 are living

[Jack Frost]

This is the original wording in Norwegian Johan F. Bohm used in his letter.  Someone else translated it into English as sheriff.  Obviously, it's a similar word as in the Census.  So, that's his grandmother's father Peder Hansen.

Min farmor var gudfryktig. Hun var født på gården Broen i Hedrum ved Bommestad bru og var datter av lensmannen i Hedrum.

[Jack Frost]

This is a confirmation list from Larvik in 1829 when Frederik Bohm, son of Svend Bohm, would have been 14 years old if the reference to his birth in 1815 is accurate. 

See entry #10.

Why would the other information for him not be completed?  Because his birth was illegitimate?
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7778/135

[Ole Westermann]

That's strange, not even his fathers name is there - didn't he have any papers at all?

[Jack Frost]

What papers?

If this Frederich Bohm is the son of Svend Bohm then it's puzzling because Svend had a royal order to move from Denmark to Norway to design gardens, plus he got royal permission for his second marriage.  It sounds like Svend was on good terms with the royal authorities.  But maybe not with the church? 

The other thing is that Johan F. Bohm wrote that his grandmother (wife of Svend Bohm) was a devout woman (see above).  Again, I don't know if he's referring to the first or second wife of Svend.  If Svend's second marriage was in 1820 and his son Frederich was born in 1820, how could a devout woman have an illegitimate child?  Maybe Frederich's mother was Svend's first wife?     

[Jack Frost]

Translation of #13 please:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-B3PP-49VB?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A683P-GW14&action=view

[Ole Westermann]

Papers: certificate of birth/baptism - maybe disappeared.

The marriage:
Merchant Frederik Böhm, 26 yo, born in Sandeherred* and conf. here, smallpox certificate.    *now Sandar
Miss Thorine Marie Carstensen, 23 yo, born and conf. in Christiania after shown certificate from Munk.
Marriage day 3^rd April in church.

Sandar - https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/8227/11 left nr 1 in translation:
Born 31.Oct. 1815
Frederich
In church 2.Dec
Parents:
Hanne Kirstine Hansen, as father ....? Gardener Frederik Böhm i Laurvig himself. Born on Orre?rød      (so they were not married)
Witnesses:
Mad. Enget Lins?man, the mother of the child, Frederik Böhm, Hendrik Lins?man, forest supervisor Heino.
Baptized at home by Mari Orrerød       (so both parents were witnesses in the church !)

[Jack Frost]

So what do you make of this? 

Are Svend and (H)anne Kirstine not the biological parents of Frederich Bohm?

Witnesses:
Mad. Enget Lins?man, the mother of the child, Frederik Böhm, Hendrik Lins?man, forest supervisor Heino.
Baptized at home by Mari Orrerød       (so both parents were witnesses in the church !)

Johan F. Bohm, grandson of Sven Bohm, wrote that his grandmother (I assume Anne Kirstine Hansen) was very devout.  Were Svend and Anne serving as foster or adoptive parents or were they the biological parents?  Were the Linsmans the biological parents? 

[Ole Westermann]

Notice that Svend was baptized Svend Friderich, so maybe he didn't use the first name Svend in Norway.
I think it is so.
Frederik maybe became a foster-child, and that's why nothing was listed at his confirmation, and neither he or his foster-parents had his certificate of baptism.
And maybe Frederik didn't know or remember the names of his biological parents.

Do you think, that Hanne Kirstine Hansdatter and Anne Kirstine Hansdatter are one person? I am not sure of that, it may also be a coincidence, that the names are alike.

[Jack Frost]

Svend was a gardener so that's him listed as Frederich.

I think it's the same Anne Kirstine Hansdatter/Hansen.

What I don't understand is who are the parents and who are the witnesses?  It makes a big difference to know Frederich's biological parents.

Johan F. Bohm (son of Frederich Bohm) definitely referred to Svend and Anne as his grandparents, whether they were biological or not. 

[Jack Frost]

Keep in mind that Svend also had a first marriage.

[Ole Westermann]

The parents of Frederich born 31.Oct.1815 are Hanne Kirstine Hansdatter and gardener Frederik Böhm, but they were not married,so Frederich is considered to be illegitimate.  Where he grew up is another question. The Linsmans are definitely not the parents.

Maybe the grandson of Svend F. Böhm, Johan F. Bohm, didn't know that his grandfather had been married twice.

PS see also my latest message at https://forum.slaegt.dk/index.php/topic,197019.30.html

[Jack Frost]

Born 31.Oct. 1815
Frederich
In church 2.Dec
Parents:
Hanne Kirstine Hansen, as father ....? Gardener Frederik Böhm i Laurvig himself. Born on Orre?rød      (so they were not married)
Witnesses:
Mad. Enget Lins?man, the mother of the child, Frederik Böhm, Hendrik Lins?man, forest supervisor Heino.
Baptized at home by Mari Orrerød       (so both parents were witnesses in the church !)

Couldn't this mean that Frederich Bohm is the father and Enget Linsman is the mother?  Why else would they indert the words father and mother like that?