Forfatter Emne: COMPLETED WITH THANKS...MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census  (Læst 4758 gange)

Sue Murphy

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Soren Madsen m. Magdalene Hermansen in Oct 1855.  On the marriage, looks like they lived at Knaebrostraede 134??  How do you search the Folketaelling for the 1860 census?  I had help finding the 1870 census where it was located in Norregard. How do you know what kvarter they lived and what exactly is the matrikel?  Obviously the numbers signify something but I don't want to trawl through 100s and 100s of docs if I don't need to.  They would have had three children by 1860, Peter, Carl and possibly Otto (born 1860).  

Apologies if I have already placed this in the forum  :-[

Appreciate any help I can get.

Sue, Melbourne.
« Senest redigeret: 06 Jan 2011 - 09:58 af Sue Murphy »

Anette Korsgaard

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #1 Dato: 28 Dec 2010 - 13:34 »
Hi Sue

Welcome to DIS-Forum :-)

Could you please write a bit more, making it easier to help you out....

The name of the town/place - "Norregard" could be many places in Denmark....is it the parish or a place?

Knaebrostrade....in Copenhagen?

Where do you have the information from? Is it om DDD? Or have you looked in AO?

You can search the census om http://www.ddd.dda.dk/soeg_person.asp, but not all data is submitted yet.

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Asger Berg

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« Svar #2 Dato: 28 Dec 2010 - 21:35 »
Hi Sue,

Sure, they lived in Copenhagen, at Knabrostræde No. 134, when they married on October 12th 1855 (Arkivalieronline, Helligånds 1845-1858, opslag 141).

Assuming they are still in Copenhagen in 1860, you'll have to search the whole of the census on Arkivalieronline: Folketælling > 1860 > København! But start out with "Snarens kvarter", because Knabrostræde is there. However, in those days people moved around a lot.

But since they have had children during those years, it may be easier to go through the records of Helligaands parish, looking for baptisms - you may find the parents' address in that way.

In the 1870 census, you have found them in "Norregard", you write - do you mean the street Nørregade in Copenhagen? Nørregade is in the quarter "Nørre Kvarter" or "Udenbys Klædebo", and it is Vor Frue parish.

Good luck -
Asger






  
« Senest redigeret: 29 Dec 2010 - 08:18 af Asger Berg »
Med venlig hilsen
Asger Berg

www.hillerødlokalhistoriskeforening.dk
Hillerød Lokalhistoriske Forening

Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #3 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 10:18 »
Hi Anette and Asger, thanks for the tips...sorry I didn't put enough info - am finding the Danish side of ancestors very challenging.  The info I have got was from a very helpful person at Statens Arkivers.  She found my rels in Folketaelling, 1870, Kobenhavn and in "Gade" picked Norregade which I assume is Norre Street??  She told me the census was done by street and not kvarter.  However, when I go to the 1860 Folketaelling and put in 1860, Kobenhavn it wants the Kvarter and the Matrikel and I'm not sure how I should know what the Kvarter is.  I guess from what you say, Asger, I need to go through the whole lot but will do as you suggest with the baptisms of the children.

It is slowly driving me insane... are you able to help?

Cheers!
Sue, Melb, Aus
« Senest redigeret: 29 Dec 2010 - 10:57 af Sue Murphy »

Sue Murphy

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« Svar #4 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 10:56 »
Hi Anette and Asger, thanks for the tips...sorry I didn't put enough info - am finding the Danish side of ancestors very challenging.  The info I have got was from a very helpful person at Statens Arkivers.  She found my rels in Folketaelling, 1870, Kobenhavn and in "Gade" picked Norregade which I assume is Norre Street??  She told me the census was done by street and not kvarter.  However, when I go to the 1860 Folketaelling and put in 1860, Kobenhavn it wants the Kvarter and the Matrikel and I'm not sure how I should know what the Kvarter is.  I guess from what you say, Asger, I need to go through the whole lot but will do as you suggest with the baptisms of the children.


Cheers!
Sue, Melb, Aus

Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #5 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 10:57 »
Hi Anette and Asger, thanks for the tips...sorry I didn't put enough info - am finding the Danish side of ancestors very challenging.  The info I have got was from a very helpful person at Statens Arkivers.  She found my rels in Folketaelling, 1870, Kobenhavn and in "Gade" picked Norregade which I assume is Norre Street??  She told me the census was done by street and not kvarter.  However, when I go to the 1860 Folketaelling and put in 1860, Kobenhavn it wants the Kvarter and the Matrikel and I'm not sure how I should know what the Kvarter is.  I guess from what you say, Asger, I need to go through the whole lot but will do as you suggest with the baptisms of the children.
It is slowly driving me insane... are you able to help?

Cheers!
Sue, Melb, Aus

Anne Mortensen

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #6 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 11:22 »
She also helped me with my grandfather's baptism.  She told me where to find it and I just can't find it anywhere   even with her specific instructions.  She said "Kobenhavn Amt - Sokkelund Herred - Vor Frue Sogn.  Find the right book and page Vor Frue folio/page 107/108 og opslag 54 and he is there as boy number 229 for the year and on the bottom line is written Hellig G Kirke".
???
------------------------------
Proposals:

SOREN MADSEN Pedigree
  Male     
Event(s):
 Birth: 
 Christening:  06 MAY 1821   Holmens Sogn, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark
 Death: 
 Burial: 
Parents:
  Father:  MADS SORENSEN SANDORFF   Family
  Mother:  CHRISTIANE MORTENSEN
--------------------------------
København
Holmen 1813-1821
opslag 365
26.3.1821
--------------------------------

Navn: Søren Madsen Sandorph   Alder: 24   Civilstand: Ugift
Erhverv: Arrestant, Arbeidsmand   Fødested: Kjøbenhavn
Kilde: FT-1845  Amt: København   Herred: København (Staden)   Sogn: Vester Kvarter   Stednavn: Vester Kvarter
Matr.nr/adresse: Kattesundet 114A, 1 Sal   Husstands-/familienr: 1   Indtastningsnr: C4240   Løbenr.: 3339

Arrestant = in prison
----------------------------------

kbhv, København (Staden), Snarens Kvarter, Snarens kvarter, Knabrostræde 134 B. stuen til højre, 830, FT-1850, C1183
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Anne Elisabeth Boeck   73    Ugift      Enke efter etatsraad boeck i Fredericia   Kjøbenhavn
Johanne Christiane Henriette Randrup   37    Ugift      fruens niece   Kjøbenhavn
Magdalene Hermansen   28    Ugift      tjenestepige   Fredericia
---------------------------------------

FT 1850 on AO

København
Knabrostræde
opslag 33
---------------------------------------
Did you know the name Sandorff ?
---------------------------------------
Parish and opslagstal for the children?
---------------------------------------

http://translate.google.com/#en|da|
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Anne Mortensen - 2770

Anne Mortensen

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« Svar #7 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 11:28 »
Kobenhavn Amt - Sokkelund Herred - Vor Frue Sogn.  Find the right book and page Vor Frue folio/page 107/108 og opslag 54 and he is there as boy number 229

København
Vor Frue 1859-1864
opslag 54
1860
nr. 229
Otto Christian Madsen
Nørregade No. 4
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Anne Mortensen - 2770

Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #8 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 11:49 »
Thank you so much...I eventually found it!  Anne, I have not heard of the name Sandorff but my tree finishes with Soren Madsen and Magdalene Hermansen.  Really don't know how to go back any further on either side as Dane don't have the same surname as their parents.  Soren and Magdalene's children were all born/baptised in Vor Frue, Sokkelund, Kobenhavn if that helps.  Otto is as you have stated, Carl was born 25 Dec 1858, Peter was born 20 December 1856 and there were also two others, Anna and Hans.  I didn't keep a copy of the opslag number  :( so that is another lesson I've learned!

How would one ever know whether they had the right family when surnames are different??  On the 1870 census I have foujnd in the first column next to Soren's name is what looks like "Kjalderen".  Am unsure what that means.  For their birth place for  Soren is something that looks like Yaderby?? and for Magdalene is Fredicia.  Does that help?

Cheers!
Sue, Melbourne Australia


Anne Mortensen

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« Svar #9 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 12:31 »
FT 1870
København
Nørregade
opslag 91

Kjælderen = Basement (family lives in the basement)
Søren is Værthusholder = pub owner

Søren born in Ydderby - maybe

http://www.krabsen.dk/stednavnebase/index.php
Stednavn Sogn Herred Gl. amt Kommune (2007) Bemærkning
Yderby Odden Ods Holbæk  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.

Maren born in Fredericia

Stednavn Sogn Herred Gl. amt
Fredericia Fredericia Elbo Vejle
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Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #10 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 12:45 »
Thank you so much for taking the time to assist me... I am slowly getting the hang of it.  Unfortunately I don't understand Danish so am having to put everything through an online translator. 

What is Maren please?  I have also found, as you suggested, addresses from birth in 1858 was 251 Norregade and 1860 was 4 Norregade so hopefully I'm on the right track now.  Does Matr.Nr. mean house number or something?  If so it should be fairly easy to find No. 4 Norregade.

Thanks again, I would not be able to do this without the help from people like you.

Cheers!
Sue

Anette Korsgaard

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« Svar #11 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 12:49 »
Hi Sue

About the surnames - it's quite logical, you'll learn that in no time :-) It's called patronyms....

Let's pretend your fathers name is Lars. Then you would be Sue Larsdatter (datter=daughter) and your brother would be Mr. Larsen (in the beginning it was LarSØN - Søn= son)

Or

Just as an example......We have your Soren Madsen.....looking at the above you would now know his fathers first name was Mads. If Soren Madsen had a son his surname would be Sorensen.

So if you went looking for children of Soren Madsen you would just have to look in the Churchbooks for the firstname instead of the surname.

From way back and untill about the middle of the 1800s, the patronyms were used. Then it changes....first you will see the daughters getting the -sen ending indtead of the -datter endings on their surnames. And then just a bit later the name will stay with the family.

Kjælderen you mentioned means the cellar - so they might have lived in the cellar.

Yaderby I don't know, but the girl is probably born in Fredericia, a town in the eastern part of Jutland (Jylland)

And don't give up - there's lots of help to get in here :-)



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Anette Korsgaard
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Anne Mortensen

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #12 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 12:56 »
??:

kbhv, København (Staden), Snarens Kvarter, Snarens kvarter, Knabrostræde 134 B. 1ste sal, 832, FT-1850, C1183
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
 
Frederik Christian Bruun 54  Gift  grosserer Skanderborg
Andrea Bruun født Møller 47  Gift  hans kone Slagelse
Frederik Christian Bruun 23  Ugift  hans søn, studiosus. juris Kjøbenhavn
Christian Hendrik Meÿer 31  Ugift  handelsbetjent Do.
Jacob Möller Mouritzen 25  Ugift  do. Frederiksberg
Oline Jørgensdatter 23  Ugift  tjenestepige Kongsted i Sorøe amt
Jens Nielsen 37  Ugift  tjenestekarl Ulkestrup i Holbecks amt
Søren Madsen 33  Ugift  tjenestekarl Yderby i Holbecks amt
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Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #13 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 13:00 »
By 1860 Soren Madsen was married (1855 to Magdalene Hermansen) and had at least two children....but the age would be about right and it's the address on the marriage!  Wonder where the wife and children are?  ???

Anette Korsgaard

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« Svar #14 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 13:05 »
This is 1850 and ugift means unmarried, so by 1850 he was still single.
You also now know he was born in Yderby parish, Holbech county :-)
Mange hilsner
Anette Korsgaard
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Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #15 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 13:07 »
 :o sorry of course, I didn't read it!  My word you are all wonderful!

Thanks.
Sue

Anne Mortensen

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« Svar #16 Dato: 29 Dec 2010 - 15:55 »
What is Maren please?

FT 1870:

Magdalene Madsen født (born) Hermansen
-------------------------------

 kbhv, København (Staden), Studiestræde, Nørre Kvarter, Studiestræde nr 26 - Matr. 87 Sidehus 2. sal, 7, FT-1885, C1904
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
 
Peter Herman Madsen 28  Ugift - Handelscommis (working with trade)
København
Ane Jensen 67  Enke Enke Husgjerning Sønnerup
---------------------------------
kbhv, København (Staden), Murergade (Ulige numre), Kjøbenhavn Udenbys Klædebo Kvarter, Murergade 15,matr.36U6H Forhus Stuen og 1.Sal, 2, FT-1885, C5617
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
 
Mads Larsen 61  Gift Husfader Detailhandel,Urtekram & blandet Forretning Asmindrup Sogn
Vilhelmine Nicoline Larsen 72  Gift Husmoder  Kjøbenhavn
Søren Valdemar Madsen 21  Ugift Handelsbetjent Handelsbetjent Kjøbenhavn
Jens Laurits Larsen 30  Ugift Søn Handelsbetjent Kjøbenhavn
Jens Larsen 26  Ugift Tyende Tjenestekarl Frederiksberg
Christiane Johanne Jensen 21  Ugift Tyende Tyende Kjøbenhavn
-----------------------------------


 
 
 
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Sue Murphy

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Sv: MADSEN, SOREN in 1860 census
« Svar #17 Dato: 30 Dec 2010 - 09:23 »
Thank you, Anne, you have been very kind.  I will look into it all.

No doubt I will be in touch in future!

Have a happy new year!