Sønder Broby parish records

Erik Schaefer · 06 Nov 2012 - 23:01

I was looking at the books for Sønder Broby, Sallinge, Svendborg. They only seen to go back to 1813. Does anyone know if they were part of a different parish prior to 1813? I am hoping 200 years of parish records are not missing. I have a family member born in 1812 and I would hope he is not a "dead end" for me.

Ole Westermann · 06 Nov 2012 - 23:32

Hi Erik

Unfortunately the vicary in S.Broby burned down on June 27 1868 and with that also the old church books from before 1813.
And that happened in many parishes all over the country in old days. What a pity !

mvh Ole

Erik Schaefer · 06 Nov 2012 - 23:58

That is too bad. 1813 was not that long ago. I was hoping I could go back farther. I guess I will never be able to go beyond this then.

Could someone please help me with this person to see if there are any clues to help me go back farther? I can read most of the names in the records, but not the places. Maybe someone came from a different parish and I can continue my research:

Ole Rasmussen

Baptism:
(parish record not available, but I got this from his confirmation)
19 Sep 1808 in S. Broby

Confirmation:
(parish book Sønder Broby 1813-1829 opslag 34, #4)
??/??/1823 in S. Broby

I believe it says his father is Rasmus Olsen and mother is Ingeborg Jorgensdatter. I cannot read any of the witnesses. He was vaccinated 27 October 1809

Marriage:
(parish book Sønder Broby 1829-1849 opslag 131, #3)
14 March 1840

Ole Rasmussen, 32 years old (cannot read his profession), and his vaccination date. Married
Karen Andersdatter, 22 years old (cannot read where she is from) and her vaccination date. Then it says "Christensen" What is that?

I cannot read the column that begins with "Falk Moller". Please help me understand that because I've seen that name before in my tree (maybe it's a common name). Are those witnesses to the marriage?

Burial:
(parish book Sønder Broby 1868-1891 opslag 209, #7)
Died on 5 December 1879
Buried on 12 December 1879

What does the last column mean? I can't read it.

If I have the names above correct, then I am a little confused about Ole's mother based upon the 1860 Census I found on DDD. Does this say Maren Jorgensdatter was his mother (Enke (Mand))? In the records above it says his mother was Ingeborg Jorgensdatter...

1860 Census, family 10, record 67

Name:          Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Ole Rasmussen      52    Gift      gaardmand, huusfader      do [Sønderbroby]
Karen Andersdatter      42    Gift      hans kone         Espe sogn, Svendborg Amt
Maren Jørgensen      89    Enke(mand)   almisselem         Kjøng sogn, Odense Amt
Mette Marie Rasmusdatter   50    Ugift      mandens søster, som af ham forsørges      her i sognet [Sønderbroby]
Ane Marie Ingeborg Olsen   20    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Else Kirstine Olsen      18    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Rasmine Olsen      15    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Caroline Olsen      12    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Maren Dorthe Olsen      10    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Hansine Olsen      8    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Johanne Olsen      5    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Anne Cathrine Olsen   2    Ugift      deres børn         do [Sønderbroby]
Frederik Jørgensen      22    Ugift      deres tjenestefolk         do [Sønderbroby]
Christian Ch??sen      21    Ugift      deres tjenestefolk         do [Sønderbroby]
Hans Christian Knudsen   15    Ugift      deres tjenestefolk         Søby sogn, Odense Amt
Hans Pedersen      25    Ugift      deres tjenestefolk         Veile sogn, Svendborg Amt

Inger Toudal · 07 Nov 2012 - 02:48

Hi Erik,

Just a few censuses for a starter:

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, , 9, FT-1787, B8800
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Niels Eriksen   37    Gift   hosbonde   bonde og gaardbeboer
Else Hansdatter   34    Gift   madmoder
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter   16    Ugift   børn af første ægteskab [of Else Hansdatter's 1st marriage]
Kirsten Jørgensdatter   12    Ugift   børn af første ægteskab
Hans Jørgensen   7    Ugift   børn af første ægteskab
Erik Nielsen   3    Ugift   børn af andet ægteskab
Jørgen Nielsen   1    Ugift   børn af andet ægteskab
Bendtz Anthonsen   30    Ugift   tienestefolk, avlet uden ægteskab
Casper Hansen   23    Ugift   tienestefolk
Karen Madsdatter   40    Ugift   tienestefolk
Malene Rasmusdatter   57    Enke(mand)   enkekone   huuset beboere og væver
Eleonora Christophersdatter   68    Enke(mand)   liigeledes [enkekone]   inderste og nyder almisse af sognet

- Niels Eriksen dies before 1801 census

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye Bye, , 11, FT-1801, B8559
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Rasmus Olsen   29    Gift   huusbonde   fæstebonde og gaardbeboer
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter   29    Gift   hans kone
Anna Rasmusdatter   1    Ugift   deres datter
Jens Larsen   25    Ugift   tienestefolk   døv og stum
Christopher Madsen   34    Gift   tienestefolk
Anna Larsdatter   17    Ugift   tienestefolk
Maria Nielsdatter   11    Ugift   tienestefolk
Else Hansdatter   48    Enke(mand)   konens moder   forrige beboers enke og nyder aftægt
Jens Jørgensen   31    Ugift   hendes børn   ??
Jørgen Nielsen   15    Ugift   hendes børn

Rasmus Olsen might be out of this family and working as a farmhand in another parish at the time of the 1787 census, but you would need the probate of his mother and/or father to prove it. Please note, that Rasmus Olsens eldest daughter is named Anna, probably after his mother.

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, , 4, FT-1787, B8800
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Ole Rasmusen   36    Gift   hosbonde   bonde og gaardbeboer, samt erdfornen medhjælper
Anna Nielsdatter   39    Gift   madmoder
Magrethe Olesdatter   13    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Niels Olsen   4    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Anna Olesdatter   2    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Niels Nielsen   25    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Hans Larsen   20    Ugift   tiænestefolk   gevorben dragon
Christopher Hansen   8    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Karen Hansdatter   23    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Rasmus Olsen   63    Gift   hosbondens forældre   gaardens forrige beborer
Anna Falksdatter   64    Gift   hosbondens forældre
Anna Rasmusdatter   21    Ugift   deres datter af første ægteskab   vanfør og nærer sig med syning
Peder Olsen   70    Ugift   hosbondens farbroder   ?? opholdet i gaarden

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye Bye, , 4, FT-1801, B8559
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Ole Rasmussen   50    Gift   huusbonde   fæstebonde og gaardbeboer, og ?? [in 2nd marriage]
Sophie Nielsdatter   62    Gift   hans kone
Margareta Olesdatter   26    Ugift   hans børn
Niels Olsen   18    Ugift   hans børn
Anna Olesdatter   15    Ugift   sidstanførtes fæstebondes børn
Sophie Olesdatter   12    Ugift   sidstanførtes fæstebondes børn
Rasmus Rasmussen   2    Ugift   ?? datters søn
Hans Pedersen   25    Ugift   tienestekarl
Hans Nielsen   10    Ugift   konens søsters sønnesøn

- Rasmus Olsen dies before 1834 census

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye, gaard, 5, FT-1834, B6378
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter   62    Enke      gaardbrugende enke
Jørgen Rasmusen   28    Ugift      hendes børn
Ole Rasmusen   26    Ugift      hendes børn
Anders Rasmusen   21    Ugift      hendes børn
Else Rasmusen   24    Ugift      hendes børn
Mette Marie Rasmusen   23    Ugift      tienestefolk
Jens Pedersen   32    Ugift      tienestefolk
Jens Nielsen   17    Ugift      tienestefolk
Maren Nielsen   17    Ugift      tienestefolk
Rasmus Pedersen   11    Ugift      pleiesøn

- Ingeborg Jørgensdatter dies before 1840 census

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, en gaard, 31, FT-1840, D2023
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Ole Rasmusen   32    Ugift      gaardfæster
Karen Andersdatter   22    Ugift      hans forlovede
Jørgen Rasmusen   34    Ugift      paa gaarden
Rasmus Andersen   29    Ugift      tjenestekarle
Nicolai Hansen   23    Ugift      tjenestekarle
Else Rasmusdatter   30    Ugift      hans søster
Rasmus Mogensen   3??    Ugift      hendes søn
Kirsten Rasmusdatter   25    Ugift      hans søster og tjenede
Maren Madsdatter   19    Ugift      tjenestepige
Hans Pedersen   17    Ugift      tjenestedreng

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye, En gaard, 3, FT-1845, B6652
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Ole Rasmusen   37    Gift      Gaardmand   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]
Karen Andersdatter   27    Gift      Hans kone   Vantinge sogn
Anne Marie Olsen   5    Ugift      Deres børn   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]
Else Kirstine Olsen   3    Ugift      Deres børn   do [Sønder Brobye]
Hans Pedersen   26    Ugift      Tjenestekarl   Sandholts Lyndelse sogn
Jørgen Villumsen   24    Ugift      do [tjenestekarl]   Glensbjergbye, Kjøng sogn, Odense Amt
Peder Hansen   20    Ugift      do [tjenestekarl]   Jordløse sogn
Hans Jeppesen   16    Ugift      do [tjenestekarl]   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]
Mette Kirstine Madsen   25    Ugift      Tjenestepiger   Østerhæsinge sogn
Mette Marie Rasmusen   33    Ugift      Tjenestepiger   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]
Hans Hansen   43    Gift      Indsidder og dagleier   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]
Maren Andersdatter   33    Gift      Hans kone   Hillerslev sogn
Anne Marie Hansen   4    Ugift      Deres barn   Her i sognet [Sønder Brobye]

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbroby, en Gaard, 8-F1, FT-1850, C6704
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Ole Rasmussen   42    Gift      Gaardmand, Huusfader   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Karen Andersdatter   32    Gift      hans Kone   Vantinge
Ane Marie Ingebor!! Olsen   10    -      deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Else Kirstine Olsen   8    -      deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Rasmine Olsen   5    -      deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Caroline Olsen   2    -      deres Børn   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Søren Andersen   20    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Johan Gotlieb Pedersen   20    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Niels Hansen   16    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Hillerslev
Ane Kirstine Andersen   21    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
Karen Madsen   17    Ugift      Tjenestefolk   Her i Sognet [Sønder Brobye Sogn]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maren Jørgensen in the 1860 census is not a member of the family. She is a pauper living at the farm.

For vocabulary etc., see e.g. https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Erik Schaefer · 07 Nov 2012 - 04:06

Oh My! Thank You Inger. I think I tried DDD because I got the 1850 and 1860 census...I must have missed the others, or forgot to search

About Maren in the 1860 Census: I saw she was a welfare recipient, but given her age, and where she was listed in order, I thought she was family. Order is:

Head of House
His Wife
Pensioner widow
Head of House sister
Children
Farm workers

If she was merely a welfare recipient, wouldn't she be listed after the children? Maybe rather than His mother, Maren could be his aunt? Or does the order mean nothing?

Inger Toudal · 07 Nov 2012 - 09:54

I admit - the order in FT-1860 is strange. Paupers are mostly listed after the servants. As far as I understand, it's the same Maren Jørgensdatter that we see here, but I haven't looked into the matter:

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye, huus, 4-F2, FT-1834, B6378
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Christopher Madsen   67    Gift      indsidder. fattigfoged
Maren Jørgensdatter   60    Gift      hans kone
Morten Christophersen   16    Ugift      deres søn

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, et huus, 28 F1, FT-1840, D2023
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Maren Jørgensdatter   65    Enke      efter afdøde fat[t]igfoged, almisselem

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, Et huus, 20, FT-1845, B6652
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Maren Jørgensdatter   71    Enke(mand)      Fattiglem   Haarbye sogn, Odense Amt
Gjertrud Nielsdatter   33    Ugift      Daglønner   Her i sognet [Sønderbrobye]
Anne Andersdatter   2    Ugift      Hendes barn   do [Sønderbrobye]

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbroby, en Gaard, 8-F2, FT-1850, C6704
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Maren Jørgensdatter   75    Enke      Inderste, Almisselem   Kjøng, Odense Amt

She could be a relative. It seems that she was living at the farm also in 1850, where Ole Rasmussen's household is marked as 8-F[amily]1, Maren is marked 8-F2.

And of course - so far, we don't know where Ingeborg Jørgensdatter was born.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Ole Westermann · 07 Nov 2012 - 11:38

Erik,

In the lack of church registers before 1813 this might be a help to you:

Fynske skifter (probates from Fyn) at http://fynhistorie.dk/node/14908
Most of the farms in Sønder Broby were owned by the manor Løg(i)smose, and
at http://daic.dk/infosys/images/daic/loegismose.pdf there are probate extracts
from 1760-1803 in alphabetic order on first names.

Ole

Erik Schaefer · 07 Nov 2012 - 15:32

Thank you both.

I have never looked at Probate records before. I'm excited to look at them later today.

Lise Østerberg Bahr · 07 Nov 2012 - 15:42

Hi.

When did the law about dobbelt churchbooks another place than the 1. one - apear ?

Kind regards
Lise Østerberg Bahr

Ole Westermann · 07 Nov 2012 - 16:27

The double church books were introduced from 1813 according to a rescript from Dec.11,1812.

And I have discovered that the farms in Sønder Broby were under Brobygaard Gods (Manor/Estate) and not Løgismose. And I don't think that the probate records from Brobygaard are available online ?

mvh Ole

Lissa Pedersen · 07 Nov 2012 - 17:20

Perhaps this link is useful: http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=2&Kilde_id=42

Lissa

Erik Schaefer · 07 Nov 2012 - 21:32

Hi Lissa,

Did you mean that particular page that you linked to, or the website with all 72 pages? I don't see anything on that page that makes a connection, but I could be missing it.

What do these probate records actually tell us?

It's interesting about these probate records and I see in Lissa's file the name "Muckadell". I posted this story on here about 2 years ago but I still have not found the answer:

The Ole Rasmussen that I have asked about above had a daughter named Caroline Olsen (my 3x Great Grandmother). The rumor in our family has been that Caroline was assaulted by a nobleman and had a daughter from that encounter (my 2nd Great Grandmother). We were told a man named Falk Moeller was listed as the father, but was not actually the blood father.

When I first started researching this years ago, I found the birth record of Caroline's daughter Albertine, and indeed it lists Falk Moller as the father. Some of you helped me find out that Falk went on to be married and start a new family in the parish, leaving Caroline's daughter to be raised by her parents. Caroline lived in a different parish and died young, having no other children. So the question has always been "Who was Albertine's real father?"

If the family story is true that it was a nobleman that impregnated her (which I have been told was not exactly uncommon), then sometimes, the nobleman would pay a bachelor in the parish to be listed as the father instead. Going off of this theory, I was able to find a living descendant of Falk Moeller who now lives in Australia. They talked to Falk's grandson who said Falk did receive a bit of land (or a mill, I can't tell) from the count Muckadell around the time Caroline was pregnant.

Obviously this is not enough information to prove anything, but my ears perk up when I see "Falk Moeller" or "Muckadell" for this reason. I was also wondering if probate records might lend any insight as to WHY Falk was given some land from the local nobility, and if it was more than just coincidence. I fear anything short of a DNA test would never actually prove who her father was...but it's such a big hole in my family history...I hope some day I can find out.

Sorry to go off topic. Thank you all for the help!

Erik Schaefer · 07 Nov 2012 - 21:33

oops

Ole Westermann · 08 Nov 2012 - 00:30

Hi Erik,

Lissa's link is not the probate records, but the register to these. The records are not yet online, they are at the 'Landsarkivet for Fyn' in Odense, but the register yet tell us 'something'.
I have tried to make a little family history back in time and hope that it makes sense to you:

Rasmus Olesen is here at the census 1787:

Odense, Baag, Køng, Højbjerg, , 1, FT-1787, A3361
Henrik Henningsen 40 gift husbond bonde og gårdmand
Karen Jacobsdatter 32 gift madmor
Maren Henriksdatter 5 ugift barn
Henning Henriksen 3 ugift barn
Jacob Henriksen 1 ugift barn
Rasmus Andersen 36 ugift tjenestekarl
Rasmus Olsen 15 ugift tjenestekarl (unmarried farm hand)

Then he returns c.1800 to Sønder Broby to get married to Ingeborg Jørgensdatter and lease (fæste) a farm there:
In the leasing protocol (fæsteprotokol) from Brobygaard at
http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=34&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 ops.34:
Rasmus Olesen, Bachelor from Høyberg in Køng parish, leases farm in SB 6.apr.1800, ~ Ingeborg Jørgensdatter,
who is daughter (from her 1.marriage) of Else Hansdatter (widow after Niels Erichsen).

Rasmus Olesen is with great probability a son of Oluf/Ole Rasmussen* seen at ops.27 in the same protocol:
Oluf Rasmussen leases a ½farm in SB 10.may 1774 earlier leased by his father Rasmus Olufsen**.
Rasmus Olesen was born c.1771, as he died 12.jul.1831, 59½ y.o. and his wife
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter was born c.1772, as she died 20.jan,1839, 66 1/3 y.o.

*This Oluf/Ole Rasmussen was acc. to 1787-1801-censuses born c.1751 and was
1.~ c.1770 Anna Nielsdatter, born c.1748 and died 5.mar.1795 acc. to ops.19 at
http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=19&Kilde_id=42&zoom=0.5
Then Oluf/Ole ~ prob.1795-96 to the widow Sophie Nielsdatter, who prob. dies 5.aug.1807 (ops.27)
Oluf/Ole Rasmussen dies 82½ y.o. on 27.mar.1834 (retired farmer (aftægtsgaardmand i Sønderbroby))

**Rasmus Olufsen/Olesen was acc. to 1787-census born c.1724; he retires in May 1774 and leaves the leasing to his son.
~ Anna Falksdatter born c.1723
They both died 1787-1801

I have also made something about Rasmus's wife Ingeborg Jørgensdatter's family, but more about that later.

Ole

Erik Schaefer · 08 Nov 2012 - 01:20

Ole thank you! When I started this topic and was told the records were burned, I had no idea someone could still proceed this far back based on probates and census records. I have so much to learn....

Is it common for names to have different spellings in each document? For example "Olesen" versus "Olsen"? Sometimes they omit the "e". I've also seen sometimes when the father's name ends in "s" they usually drop the double "S" but not always. For example "Jensen" insead of "Jenssen" (but I've seen both). I think this is partly why I have trouble using DDD because names can be spelling so many ways.

Ole Westermann · 08 Nov 2012 - 15:49

Yes, it is very common that names have different spellings.
Oluf/Ole/Olle and Olufsen/Olesen/Olsen.
In the very early books the double-s in ex Jensen like Jenssøn/Jenssen is very common.
So ex searching in the census-databases for Ole Rasmussen you should just write ol% ras%.

About Ingeborg Jørgensdatter and her family relations:

She was born c. sept.1772 as daughter of
Jørgen Jensen ~ c.1769 Else Hansdatter, born c.1753
Children: Jens (c.1770), Ingeborg (c.1772), Kirsten (c.1776), Hans (c.1780)

Jørgen Jensen, see http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=12&Kilde_id=42&zoom=0.5 , dies 30.may 1783 and his widow Else then ~ c.1783-84 Niels Erichsen. Niels Erichsen (born c.1750) dies already 22.3.1798 (ops 6)
Jørgen Jensen was prob. born 1735-45, as he was prob. c.22-30 y.o. when he leased the farm in 1766:
At http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=18&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 we see, that Jørgen Jensen leases a ½farm in SB 28.dec.1766, earlier leased by Hans Hansen* (who might be the father of JJ's wife Else Hansdatter)

Else Hansdatter, see http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=7&Kilde_id=42&zoom=0.5 , prob. dies 10.may 1806.

* at http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=9&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 it is prob. this Hans Hansen, who leases a farm in SB 19.feb.1750, earlier Morten Rasmussen, and 26.jan.1757 another farm in SB, also from the same MR.
Hans Hansen seems to die before 1776 (start of the probate register).

At http://arkiv.kms.dk/mpn/o2mapviewer.aspx?type=o1k_oekort&id=2961&mode=2&elav=0442153
is an excellent map from 1783 with Sønder Broby with the names of all the copyholders (fæstere) of the farms etc.
You see Ole Rasmussen in farm no 4,
and Niels Erichsen i no 7 (prob. before 1783 Jørgen Jensen and earlier Hans Hansen?)
New copyholders (fæstebønder) names have been put on later.

Ole

Erik Schaefer · 08 Nov 2012 - 18:22

Thank You!

I am curious from your personal opinion, would this be enough proof for you to put these people in your family tree if you were in my place?

I know you say "Probable" a lot, and many dates are estimates/calculations. But it seems sources are missing, so I don't know if there would be any other "proof".

This is probably up to the individual how confident they feel in this information, but I'm curious what all of you would do if you were in my shoes. Is this proof enough?

Thank you again Ole, I really thought I had hit a dead end!

Inger Toudal · 08 Nov 2012 - 19:36

Hi Erik

As I see it, the only weak link is this

Citat fra: Ole Westermann Dato 08 Nov 2012 - 00:30

Rasmus Olesen is here at the census 1787:

Odense, Baag, Køng, Højbjerg, , 1, FT-1787, A3361
Henrik Henningsen 40 gift husbond bonde og gårdmand
Karen Jacobsdatter 32 gift madmor
Maren Henriksdatter 5 ugift barn
Henning Henriksen 3 ugift barn
Jacob Henriksen 1 ugift barn
Rasmus Andersen 36 ugift tjenestekarl
Rasmus Olsen 15 ugift tjenestekarl (unmarried farm hand)

Then he returns c.1800 to Sønder Broby to get married to Ingeborg Jørgensdatter and lease (fæste) a farm there:
In the leasing protocol (fæsteprotokol) from Brobygaard at
http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=34&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 ops.34:
Rasmus Olesen, Bachelor from Høyberg in Køng parish, leases farm in SB 6.apr.1800, ~ Ingeborg Jørgensdatter,
who is daughter (from her 1.marriage) of Else Hansdatter (widow after Niels Erichsen).

Rasmus Olesen is with great probability a son of Oluf/Ole Rasmussen* seen at ops.27 in the same protocol:
Oluf Rasmussen leases a ½farm in SB 10.may 1774 earlier leased by his father Rasmus Olufsen**.
Rasmus Olesen was born c.1771, as he died 12.jul.1831, 59½ y.o. and his wife
Ingeborg Jørgensdatter was born c.1772, as she died 20.jan,1839, 66 1/3 y.o.

It still has to be proved that Ingeborg Jørgensdatter's husband Rasmus O(le)sen, born c. 1771 is son of Ol(e)/Oluf Rasmussen. What we know for sure is that he is recorded as being from Køng parish, when he leases the farm in 1800 and marries Ingeborg c. 1800.

If he is son of Ole/Oluf Rasmussen and Anne Nielsdatter, he would be mentioned in the probate after Anne Nielsdatter, who dies in 1795, and in the probate after Ole/Oluf Rasmussen, who dies in 1834.

These probate records can be found at The Provincial Archives for Funen (Landsarkivet for Fyn) in Odense.

Birth and marriage data are, of couse, estimates. As I'm not familiar with probates from this area, I don't know if date of death is mentioned in the probates. 30 days after the date when the authorities were notified of a death (and the probate procedure was initiated), they held a registration of the estate at the home of the deceased. A probate may consist of several different records.

You can read about probates here: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark:_Probate_Records, which has a link to record examples, and about fæsteprotokoller here: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark:_Land_and_Property.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Inger Toudal · 08 Nov 2012 - 20:00

Well, actually there's another weak link further back:

Citat fra: Ole Westermann Dato 08 Nov 2012 - 15:49

About Ingeborg Jørgensdatter and her family relations:

She was born c. sept.1772 as daughter of
Jørgen Jensen ~ c.1769 Else Hansdatter, born c.1753
Children: Jens (c.1770), Ingeborg (c.1772), Kirsten (c.1776), Hans (c.1780)

Jørgen Jensen, see http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=12&Kilde_id=42&zoom=0.5 , dies 30.may 1783 and his widow Else then ~ c.1783-84 Niels Erichsen. Niels Erichsen (born c.1750) dies already 22.3.1798 (ops 6)
Jørgen Jensen was prob. born 1735-45, as he was prob. c.22-30 y.o. when he leased the farm in 1766:
At http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=18&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 we see, that Jørgen Jensen leases a ½farm in SB 28.dec.1766, earlier leased by Hans Hansen* (who might be the father of JJ's wife Else Hansdatter)

Else Hansdatter, see http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=7&Kilde_id=42&zoom=0.5 , prob. dies 10.may 1806.

* at http://www.wadschier.dk/kilder/vis_side.php?nr=9&Kilde_id=41&zoom=0.5 it is prob. this Hans Hansen, who leases a farm in SB 19.feb.1750, earlier Morten Rasmussen, and 26.jan.1757 another farm in SB, also from the same MR.
Hans Hansen seems to die before 1776 (start of the probate register).

Even if the church records are missing before 1813, you have records from the preceding years. They are of a different kind and won't always give you exact dates and years, but "probate records are one of the most accurate sources of genealogical information" (quote from https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Denmark:_Probate_Records).

Best regards,
Inger T.

Ole Westermann · 08 Nov 2012 - 20:02

Erik,

I think that I would put them into the family tree; by mentioning the sources for this decision it is fair.
Let's take the suggestion that Else Hansdatter's father might be Hans Hansen; Jørgen Jensen leased HH's farm ultimo 1766, probably as a bachelor, and at that time Else was only 13-14 years old, but after c. 3 years HH and JJ agreed that JJ should marry Else. I think it is fair to believe what happened. It's the way they did in those old days.
And these small villages/parishes had a limited amount of possible partners !

Maybe you could put an ?! at the end of Hans Hansen you say that it is reasonable suggestion. And make a note why.

When I write that Else Hansdatter probably died 10.may 1806, it is based on the date in the probate register. She could maybe have died 1 or 2 days before. But she did die at that time.

Many dates are estimated from the un-exact sources available (like censuses). Even if you have an age at death from the church books, they are far from always reliable ! So you can only make an estimation, if you do not have the exact birthday.
When I estimate a time for a marriage it is from the age of the children in the censuses, when we miss the church book. And it's fair to do so.

And of course it would be very fine if you could get the probate records ! They could maybe reveal good informations and proofs.

Ole

Ole Westermann · 08 Nov 2012 - 23:52

Inger,

The fact that Rasmus Olesen calls his first daughter Anne is a rather good indication of
his parents being Oluf/Ole Rasmussen and Anna Nielsdatter.

mvh Ole

Erik Schaefer · 09 Nov 2012 - 01:01

Many many thanks to Ole and everyone who helped me here. Please don't think I question your work, because it is amazing. This being the first time I have ever seen probate records, I just didn't know how much I can rely on them. I do understand the "weak links" Inger points out and I will consider it all. For now I have included everyone Ole found, but I will continue searching.

If I continue looking at probate records, maybe I can find information on some of the children that could give me clues.

One thing that seems odd to me is how far Køng is from S. Broby. Would a young man really travel that far to be a farmhand? There were no jobs closer to home? I could imagine him going that far if he had family to help him near Køng. And, of course that pauper Maren Jorgensen who was from Køng according to the 1860 census. I still wonder if there was a connection there. She had the same maiden name as Ole's mother, and she's from the same town where his his father Rasmus worked as a boy (far from S. Broby). Could be coincidence, it seems odd to me.

I have a lot of things to search for. Thank you so much again.

Inger Toudal · 09 Nov 2012 - 01:59

Ole,

I couldn't agree more. As a matter of fact that's exactly what I meant, when I wrote:

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 07 Nov 2012 - 02:48

Rasmus Olsen might be out of this family and working as a farmhand in another parish at the time of the 1787 census, but you would need the probate of his mother and/or father to prove it. Please note, that Rasmus Olsens eldest daughter is named Anna, probably after his mother.

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønderbrobye, , 4, FT-1787, B8800
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation:
Ole Rasmusen   36    Gift   hosbonde   bonde og gaardbeboer, samt erdfornen medhjælper
Anna Nielsdatter   39    Gift   madmoder
Magrethe Olesdatter   13    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Niels Olsen   4    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Anna Olesdatter   2    Ugift   deres børn af første ægteskab
Niels Nielsen   25    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Hans Larsen   20    Ugift   tiænestefolk   gevorben dragon
Christopher Hansen   8    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Karen Hansdatter   23    Ugift   tiænestefolk
Rasmus Olsen   63    Gift   hosbondens forældre   gaardens forrige beborer
Anna Falksdatter   64    Gift   hosbondens forældre
Anna Rasmusdatter   21    Ugift   deres datter af første ægteskab   vanfør og nærer sig med syning
Peder Olsen   70    Ugift   hosbondens farbroder   ?? opholdet i gaarden

I found Anna/Anne Rasmusdatter's confirmation, which gives us the date of her baptism: 12 March 1800 (Sønder Broby 1813-1829, opslag 59 # 2 in 1815). Maybe Rasmus married Ingeborg prior to leasing the farm?

Erik,

Although Køng is in another county, it is not very far from Sønder Broby. Click on Svendborg and Odense counties on this map http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kort.htm and have a look at Sallinge district and Båg (Baag) district.

You can also get clues from witnesses at baptisms, but I could only find one child of Rasmus Olsen baptized after 1812: Kirsten Rasmusdatter (Sønder Broby 1813-1829, opslag 26 # 11). I'm not quite sure, but I think the last witness mentioned is Niels Olsens Kone (Niels Olsen's Wife).

When you look at the baptism of Niels Olsen's daughter Anna Kierstine (same book, opslag 25 # 4), the last witness mentioned is Rasmus Olsen's Kone.

These are further indications that Rasmus Olsen is, indeed, son of Ole/Oluf Rasmussen. You see Niels Olsen in the 1834 census with his father, who dies later the same year:

Svendborg, Sallinge, Sønder Broby, Sønder Brobye, gaard, 6, FT-1834, B6378
Name:    Age:    Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Niels Olsen   51    Gift      gaardmand
Abelone Mogensen   52    Gift      hans kone
Mogens Nielsen   23    Ugift      deres børn
Anna Kierstine Nielsen   21    Ugift      deres børn
Anna Nielsen   18    Ugift      deres børn
Kiersten Nielsen   16    Ugift      deres børn
Hans Rasmusen   26    Ugift      tienestefolk
Peder Rasmusen   26    Ugift      tienestefolk
Rasmus Villadsen   16    Ugift      tienestefolk
Ole Rasmusen   83    Enkemand      aftægts gaardmand

Best regards,
Inger T.

Jesper Folkmar · 03 Maj 2021 - 12:57

accidentaly I came accross this and as I now a little bit I thought I would share it:
look at this link https://www.wadschier.dk/afskrifter/lundegaard_godsarkiv_skifteprotokol_1719-1845.pdf
here you will find this entry
Gårdmand Hans Hansen Møllegård, Vittinge, 12-06-1770, II-145 (344)
~ Karen Olesdatter lavværge Rasmus Olesen, Sønder Broby
helbror Eskild Hansen, Fangel på Vejlegårds gods
helsøster Anne Hansdatter ~ Lars Jensen, Fangel på Søbo gods
helsøster + Anne Hansdatter ~ Hans Madsen, Fangel på Søbo gods, hendes børn:
Niels Rasmussen, Hillerslev på hospitalets gods
Rasmus Mortensen 26 år
Hans Mortensen 25 år
helsøster Maren Hansdatter ~ Niels Andersen, Langsted, hospitalets gods
halvbror Niels Rasmussen, Langsted, Hvedholms gods
Fortsætter 25-06-1770

and a bit later this whitch is why I found it
Karen Olesdatter, Vittinge, 04-08-1770, II-160 (352)
enke efter Gårdmand Hans Hansen Møllegård, Vittinge, 12-06-1770, II-145 (344)
gårdafståelse til Rasmus Larsen, som gifter sig med hendes broderdatter Kirsten
Rasmusdatter, Sønder Broby
Enken får aftægt, hendes lavværge bror Rasmus Olesen, Sønder Broby

I hope you can use it
jesper