Forfatter Emne: Census question  (Læst 7842 gange)

Bill Petersen

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Census question
« Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 02:56 »
Hi All,
I have a question regarding the 1855 census for Haderslev, Frøs, Sønder Hygum
It says the Father was born in Fardrup sogn her i amtet...where is this?
Where is Varnæs?...where it lists the daughter, Theodora as being born

The three sons, Nicolai, Andreas and Peder are shown as being born the same place as the father,
But I have all three born in Aastup, Haderslev, Haderslev.

I would like help in locating the father and the daughter...any help would be appreciated.
Mvh,
Bill

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #1 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 04:17 »
Hi Bill,

I take it you have the census info from ddd.dda.dk? "Fardrup" is probably a misreading, or a mistake in the original census - I cannot find such a place name or parish in the Danish place name database http://www.krabsen.dk/stednavnebase/.

Varnæs is in Aabenraa county, please refer to Map of the Danish counties http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/kort.htm. Click "Åbenrå", and youl'll see the districts and parishes in Aabenraa county.

Amt = County
Herred = District
Sogn = Parish


I wonder if this is the correct info:

Haderslev, Haderslev, Aastrup, Niederaastrup Dorf, Nebengebäude, 24 B, FT-1845, C2167
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Nicolai Henningsen 39  Gift  Pächter Satrup in Angeln
Caroline Christiane 51  Gift  seine Ehefrau Gramm
Sophie Henningsen 7  Ugift  Ihre Kinder Stenderup
Nicolai Henningsen 5  Ugift  Ihre Kinder Aastrup
Andreas Henningsen 3  Ugift  Ihre Kinder Aastrup
Peter Henningsen 1  Ugift  Ihre Kinder Aastrup

Is Sophie identical to Theodora Lydia, 17 y in FT-1855?

Haderslev, Frøs, Sønder Hygum (Slesvigsk), Brøstrup, en gård, 8, FT-1855, C2298
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Nicolaj Christian Henningsen 49  Gift gårdmand, husfader  Fardrup sogn her i amtet
Cicilie Caroline Lamp 47  Gift hans kone  Gram
Theodora Lydia Henningsen 17  Ugift deres børn  Varnæs
Nicolaj Frederik Henningsen 15  Ugift deres børn  Fardrup sogn her i amtet
Andreas Carl Henningsen 13  Ugift deres børn  Fardrup sogn her i amtet
Peder Henningsen 11  Ugift deres børn  Fardrup sogn her i amtet
Christian Henningsen 8  Ugift deres børn  Gram
Christine Marie Henningsen 4  Ugift deres børn  Her i byen
Sørine Jensen Schmidt 17  Ugift tjenestefolk  Fardrup sogn her i amtet
Ane Margrethe Hansen 16  Ugift tjenestefolk  Skodborg sogn, her i amtet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Bill Petersen

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #2 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 06:39 »
Hi Inger,
What you have found only brings up more questions...the mother in the 1845 Census is identical
except for the mothers birth...I have that as being Caroline Christine Lorenzen born 23 Sept 1808
in Gram. This birth fits for Cecilie in the 1855 census  Everyone else is the same also, except the
name for Sophie. I still have not found 'Satrup in Anglen'. I'm guesing the 1855 census is wrong.
I will spend the rest of the night trying to find them with the new Parish names you have found.
Thanks for your help Inger, it is appreciated.
Mvh,
Bill

Inger Buchard

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #3 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 10:18 »
One sister of my grandfather married a Hans Nicolai Henningsen, son of a Peter Henningsen, born 1838 in Steinbergholz. Hans Nicolai Henningsen was born 1874 in Quern, Angeln east of Flensburg. 10 km south west of Quern you find Satrup.
I never researched this Henningsen-branch as it is not my family, but I wouldn't wonder if it is connected to yours.
'My' Hans Nicolai Henningsen was a farmer (and rather well known pyromaniac) in Vimtrup north of Rødding, Haderslev amt, and his father Peter was a farmer in the same area, i.e. Rødding and Skodborg.

Anyway: Satrup is in Germany - in the 19th century like Haderslev county it belonged to the former duchy Schleswig. Moving from Satrup to Aastrup was hence moving inside the same province of Prussia.

Inger
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Inger Toudal

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #4 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 10:50 »
Hi Bill,

You're right - Stenderup brings up more questions. A search in the Krabsen database gives the following result:

Stednavn Sogn Herred Gl. amt Kommune (2007) Bemærkning

Nørre Stenderup Eltang Brusk Vejle  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Føvling Malt Ribe  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Bæk Føvling Malt Ribe  Vandareal, f.eks. bugt, farvand, sø, å.
Stenderup Grarup Haderslev Haderslev  Bebyggelse.
Stenderup Ris Grarup Haderslev Haderslev  Areal, f.eks. bakke, pynt, skov, mose.
Stenderup Mosbjerg Horns Hjørring  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Nybøl Nybøl Sønderborg  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Mose Nybøl Nybøl Sønderborg  Bebyggelse.
Stenderup Skov Nybøl Nybøl Sønderborg  Areal, f.eks. bakke, pynt, skov, mose.
Stenderupmose Nybøl Nybøl Sønderborg  manuelt/ S A M
Stenderup Stenderup Hatting Vejle  Sogn Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Stenderup Øster Horne Ribe  Sogn Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderupskov Sønder Stenderup Nørre Tyrstrup Vejle  Bebyggelse.
Sønder Stenderup Sønder Stenderup Nørre Tyrstrup Vejle  Sogn Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Toftlund Nørre Rangstrup Haderslev  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Gårde Toftlund Nørre Rangstrup Haderslev  Bebyggelse.
Gammel Stenderup Vester Hæsinge Sallinge Svendborg  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Ny Stenderup Vester Hæsinge Sallinge Svendborg  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Øster Lindet Frøs Haderslev  Bebyggelse. Ejerlav eller dele heraf.
Stenderup Fælled Øster Lindet Frøs Haderslev  Bebyggelse.
Stenderup Mark Øster Lindet Frøs Haderslev  Bebyggelse.
 

Satrup in Angeln is a parish south-east of Flensburg in what was then the Duchy of Schleswig. You see the parish on this map:

http://www.dis-danmark.dk/kipkort/kort/sles1803.gif

Until the Second War of Schleswig in 1864, the Duchy was under Danish rule, Haderslev county and Angeln thus being different areas within the same duchy, please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Schleswig.


The age of the mother in FT-1845 is definitely wrong.

If you manage to find the marriage or the death of Nicolai Christian, I guess that might locate his birth place.


Best regards,
Inger T.
« Senest redigeret: 15 Dec 2010 - 11:23 af Inger Toudal »

Inger Toudal

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #5 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 11:21 »
 :)

Theodora Sophia Henningsen was born 2 Sept. 1838 in (Sønder) Stenderup parish, Nørre Tyrstrup district, Vejle county.

- AO, Stenderup, Nørre Tyrstrup, Vejle 1814-1850, opslag 103, Nr. 21

If you want to be accurate, Tyrstrup district in Haderslev county was part of the Duchy of Schleswig until 1864. After the war, the northern part, Nørre Tyrstrup, was incorporated into the Kingdom of Denmark as part of Vejle county.
 

The birth record is in German. Maybe Inger B. can translate?


Best regards,
Inger T.
« Senest redigeret: 15 Dec 2010 - 11:56 af Inger Toudal »

Inger Buchard

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #6 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 11:41 »
In German first:
Theodora Sophia Henningsen, des Meierei-Päch-
ters in Warmark Nicolai Christian Henningsen
und der Caroline Christine Lorenzen ehel. Tochter.
Gevattere:
1. Die Küsterfrau in Oeddis, St. Schmidt
2. Claus J. Juhl in Warmark
3. Gjertrud Holm auf der Insen Fänöe

Meaning:
TSH, legitimate daughter of the tenant of the dairy in Warmark [Vormark] NCH
and CCL
Witnesses:
the wife of the parish clerk in Ødis St. Schmidt
CJJ in Warmark
GH from the island Fænø (in Lillebælt opposite the Kolding Fjord)

a 'Holländer' or in my rusty English 'tenant of the dairy' would be a rather wealthy specialist, often moving around from one dairy to the other. The Trap Slesvig 1860 doesn't mention a dairy in Vormark, only that Vormark had 5 rather big farms - maybe these had joined in a common dairy with a specialist leader in stead of treating the milk on the different farms.
If you remind me after New Year I'll take a look in the lists of 'Holländer' made by Joachim Memmert. The series of books are placed in the archive in Aabenraa. They could give en overview over the whereabouts of the Henningsen-family.

Inger
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Jørgen Sørensen

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #7 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 12:37 »
Venligst Jørgen - 2300

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #8 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 13:06 »

The link Jørgen mentions refers to Fårdrup, Vester Flakkebjerg, Sorø  ;).

Inger T.


Jørgen Sørensen

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #9 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 13:22 »
Troede lige jeg var heldig :( Sorry
Venligst Jørgen - 2300

Bill Petersen

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #10 Dato: 15 Dec 2010 - 20:16 »
Hi Inger,
Thank you for the overwhelming amount of information, now I have plenty to do the rest of the day.

I found an Afgangsliste message (Opslag 104...1827-1836...Skovby, Odense) that states they are leaving for Fenøe, Middlefart, Odense...could this be the same area that was reported by Inger Buchard?
If you look at this record would you translate the information of the mother.

Again, thank you Inger and Inger Buchard as well, for your indepth help it is more than appreciated, I don't know what those of us on this side of the water would do without the kindness of you people.
Mvh,
Bill

Inger Toudal

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #11 Dato: 16 Dec 2010 - 01:16 »
Hi Bill,

Yes, its the same island - Fænø - situated west of Middelfart town on Funen, east of Kolding town in Jutland.

The couple is not married in 1836, when they leave Skovby with destination Fænøe in Middelfart parish. However, Caroline Christine has given birth to an illegitimate son 21 Aug. 1835. The alleged father of the child was Nicolai Christian Henningsen.

Will be back with a full translation later.


Best regards,
Inger T.

Poul-Erik Langvad

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #12 Dato: 16 Dec 2010 - 10:38 »
His arrival:Odense, Vends, Kavslund1832-1852 opslag 25 no. 20.

29 years old, born in Sorup, Angeln, Schlesvig.
d.1/?-36 fra Harritzlevgrd i Shoubye Sogn til Fænoegaard m Egenskab

som Hollænderiforpager. Derfra d. 1/5 37 til Fobesletgd i Holsteen i ?

M.v.h. Poul-Erik

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #13 Dato: 16 Dec 2010 - 11:46 »
Here is the translation I promised.

Skovby, Skovby, Odense 1827-1836, opslag 104, No. 3 & 4:

Nicolai Christian Henningsen. Departure reported 26 April 1836. 29 3/4 y.
Dairy leaseholder at Harritslevgaard. To Fænøe in Middelfart parish.

Caroline Christine Lorentzen. Departure reported 26 April 1836. 27½ y.
Housekeeper for dairy leaseholder Henningsen. Follows her master to Fænøe.
About her condtions is to notice: that she has given birth to an illegitimate
man-child 21 Aug. 1835, and that she has fathered the same on her master,
dairy leaseholder Henningsen.



Hollænderi is, as I understand it, the dairy (or the dairy cattle and grazing) at a manor, which is leased to a hollænder.
Cf. http://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?aselect=Hollænderi&query=hollænderi (in Danish).

For a drawing of Harritslevgaard, please see http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harritslevg%C3%A5rd.


Best regards,
Inger
« Senest redigeret: 16 Dec 2010 - 12:58 af Inger Toudal »

Bill Petersen

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Sv: Census question
« Svar #14 Dato: 16 Dec 2010 - 20:43 »
Hi Inger and Poul-Erik,
Thank you for the information and the translation.
I have finally found Nicolai's death record...25 Mar 1885 in Sønder Hygum.
Thanks once again for your help.
Mvh,
Bill