Carl Victor Christiansen

[Riemke Christie]

My husband and I have been attempting to locate information regard the above named person (my husbands father).  He was, we believe, born in Svendborg on 11 January 1904.  His father's name was Kai Wilhelm and mother Agnes Christophersen.  Carl Victor arrived in Sydney Austalia in 1922/23 on the MS Asia.  We have been searching through archive records for both Svenborg and Odense where the family lived (again from what we have been told - cannot be confirmed) without success.  I hope that you may be able to assist in some way.  Thank you, Riemke

[Jane C]

May I post a link to the family website?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~christiansen/history.htm

The website says the father Kai Wilhelm Christiansen was a tailor. Vic trained as a cabinet maker.
It says Vic's known brothers and sisters were:  
Kai Wilhelm
Agnes
Sven
Einer
Vera Viola
Ella May
Ebba

The website mentions the family may have moved to Odense about 1907; that Vic worked as a cook-deck boy on a ship for a short period beginning about 1919; that he trained as a cabinet maker in Copenhagen thereafter.

[Jane C]

A previous discussion, in Danish, of this Carl Victor Christiansen, with another descendant:

http://www.dis-danmark.dk/forum/read.php?1,80739

I haven't put time into this but some other kind soul with more skills will come along to help I'm sure. Meanwhile here are some links - obviously you've used some of these, but perhaps some will be new. Another forum participant has just been collecting links in another thread, so these are handy.  

Danish archives online
http://www.sa.dk/ao/  

A helpful tool that lets you search (some) churchbooks and census records
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/

A website to search immigration records
http://www.emiarch.dk/search.php3?l=da

People who were born, married, died or lived in Odense ca. 1720-1900 (not complete)
http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/

Adults living in Copenhagen ca. 1890-1920
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/

Norman Madsen's Danish-English Genealogy Dictionary (a brief dictionary of most often encountered terms):
http://www3.sympatico.ca/colin.swift/danish.htm

A translator for Danish to English and other Scandinavian languages:
http://www.gramtrans.com

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Riemke,

With the clues that Jane gave I was able to find the following.

Vera Viola Kristiansen was born 22 Oct 1912, parents Frits Frederik Kristiansen and Nielsine Andrea Hansen, Skt Hans, Odense, Odense, opslag 346 nr 69.

Frits Frederik Kristiansen, born 21 Oct 1872 in Hamburg, foster child of Mads Hansen of Nørre Broby, and Nielsine Andrea Hansen and Nielsine Andrea Hansen, born 9 Sep 1875, parents Lars Christian, Hansen and Gjertrud Larsen, 43, Fangel, Odense, Odense, opslag 24 nr 6, were married  in Skt Knud, Odense, Odense on 7 Nov 1895, opslag 107 nr 0.

In the 1921 Odense census for Provstegade 4, opslag 12, part of the family is listed.   From this I found

Kai Vilhelm Christiansen was born 4 Feb 1901 in Fangel, Odense, Odense, opslag 26 nr 1.
Helga Ella Christiansen was born 9 Jun 1910, Ansgar, Odense, Odense, opslag 233 nr 51.
Ebba Ragnhild was born 15 Dec 1913, Vor Frue, Odense, Odense, opslag 373 nr 82.

I then found the family in the 1911 Odense census living at Jens Benzonsgade 43, opslag 63.

Here I found th following
Agnes Gerde Christiansen born 18 Sep 1898 in Odense, Vor Frue opslag 321 nr 105.
Viggo Marinus Christiansen born 11 Jan 1903 in Odense.  I didn't find his birth record.
Otto Ejnar Christiansen born 13 Oct 1904 in Nødager, Djurs Sønder, Randers, opslag 6 nr 17.
Svend Oskar Christiansen born 24 Sep 1906.  I couln't read his place of birth.  Perhaps a kind Kane can.

Sincerely,
Paul
North Carolina, USA

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi,

I have checked the birth of Vera Viola Christiansen/Kristiansen mentioned in the old posting. Her parents are: Fritz Frederik Kristiansen (corrected for both from Christiansen) and Nielsine Andrea Hansen. They are found in Vor Frue parish, Odense - opslag 346 (1907-1913).

I have tried to write Lone Andersen who had the old posting, but I got the mail back again. Perhaps anyone here knows her, or hopefully she sees this?

Lissa

[Inge Hedal]

Hi,
Paul wrote: Svend Oskar Christiansen born 24 Sep 1906.  I couln't read his place of birth.  Perhaps a kind Kane can

Svend was born in Hasselager, Aarhus, Ning, Kolt 1901-1911, opslag 22, nr 23.

Sincerely,
Inge Hedal

Now we have all the names from your website - except Carl Victor. Something is wrong somewhere. Ejnar was born in October 1904, and I doubt it that they had a child in January 1904 as well.

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

I rechecked the records and from what I can read, Frits Frederik Christiansen was born in Hamborg not Hamburg on 21 Oct 1872.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Inge Hedal]

Hi,
Suggestion: Carl Victor is Viggo Marinus, born January 11 1903. 'Viggo' is not the best of names in English speaking countries, so he decided to alter it a bit.
His birth: Odense, Sct. Knud 1902-1906, opslag 47, nr 6. They lived in Gartnergade 23.

Frits Frederik Christiansen's confirmation in 1886: Svendborg, Nørre Broby 1883-1891, opslag 7, nr 8. No parents mentioned. Fosterson of Mads Hansen. He was born in Hamborg, the Danish spelling of Hamburg. He did not have a birth certificate, but was given permission by the ministry to be confirmed.
Inge

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Inge,

I think you are correct.  Here is Viggo in København in 1919 working as a cook. http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1346936&searchname=polit_simple

mvh
Paul

[Jane C]

How fun to check back and find the riddle has been solved. Cool!

8)    

Frits Frederik Kristiansen and Nielsine Andrea Hansen - PARENTS
married in Skt Knud, Odense, Odense on 7 Nov 1895
THEIR
CHILDREN
Agnes Gerde Christiansen born 18 Sep 1898, Vor Frue, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Kai Vilhelm Christiansen born 4 Feb 1901, Fangel, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Viggo Marinus Christiansen born 11 Jan 1903, Sct. Knud, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Otto Ejnar Christiansen born 13 Oct 1904, Nødager, Djurs Sønder, Randers, Denmark
Svend Oskar Christiansen born 24 Sep 1906, Hasselager, Kolt, Ning, Aarhus, Denmark
Helga Ella Christiansen born 9 Jun 1910, Ansgar, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Vera Viola Kristiansen born 22 Oct 1912, Skt Hans, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Ebba Ragnhild born 15 Dec 1913, Vor Frue, Odense, Odense, Denmark


Agnes = Agnes Gerde
Kai Wilhelm = Kai Vilhelm
Carl Victor = Viggo Marinus
Einer = Otto Ejnar
Sven = Svend Oskar
Ella May = Helga Ella
Vera Viola = Vera Viola
Ebba = Ebba Ragnhild

Impressive work, all of you.

By the way, Riemke, I have the same unexpected discrepancies in my own family history. I know exactly who my grandparents and great-grandparents and great-great-grandparents were in America and in Denmark (from handwritten documents by those people, a super-abundance of family stories, family Bibles etc.). One great-great grandmother who immigrated (my earliest immigrant) was born on a certain day-month in 1839. Her birth day-month in America is the same as her 1839 birth record in Denmark. But on her tombstone, it says she was born in 1840. Also, on her American death record, her oldest brother's name is given instead of her father's name. So...it happens.


1880 census
Denmark, Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel sogn og by, hus, 12, FT-1880, b0079
Lars Christian Hansen 41 Gift husfader. tømrer Fangel
Gjertrud Larsen 46 Gift tømr. S. C. Hansens hustru Orte, Odense Amt
Martha Marie Hansen 13 Ugift deres datter Fangel
Hans Christian Hansen 11 Ugift deres søn Fangel
Lauritz Frederik Hansen 9 Ugift deres søn Fangel
Emma Kristine Hansen 6 Ugift deres datter Fangel
Nielsine Andrea Hansen 4 Ugift deres datter Fangel (unmarried, their daughter, born in Fangel parish) <-- Vic's mother

Where is Hamborg?

[Jane C]

Personer Hovedperson
Viggo Marius Christiansen , 11-1-XXXX , Odense
Stillinger: Kok

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1346936&searchname=polit_simple

Here is Viggo Marius Christiansen [sic] in Copenhagen, in the register the police kept of all citizens. The birth year is cut off in the scan, but the birth day is 11 January, born in Odense. Maybe some one else will read the rest.

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Jane C]

Another child in the family

1901
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel, 70b, 17, FT-1901, C4183
Frederik Christiansen 21. oktober 1872 Gift Husfader Skræder Nørre Broby Sogn, Svendborg Amt
Sine Christiansen, født Hansen 09. september 1875 Gift Husmoder Husgerning Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt
Aage Christiansen 26. februar 1896 Ugift Barn Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt
Agnes Christiansen 18. september 1898 Ugift Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt

================================================

A rough translation

1901 census in Fangel in Fangel parish, Odense herred (district), Odense amt (county), Denmark

Frederik Christiansen was born 21. October 1872 married, head of house, skrædder = tailor, he's born in
Nørre Broby Sogn (parish), Svendborg Amt.

Sine Christiansen (Sine is short for Nielsine), født Hansen (born Hansen/maiden name Hansen) born 09. September 1875 married housemother, Husgerning (??) born in Fangel Sogn (parish), Odense Amt

Aage Christiansen born 26. februar 1896 unmarried, their child, born in Fangel Sogn (parish), Odense Amt

Agnes Christiansen born 18. september 1898 unmarried born in Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt

==================================================

Searching in 1880 census, I didn't find Frits Frederik Kristiansen, born 21 Oct 1872 in Hamburg, foster child of Mads Hansen of Nørre Broby. I did find:


1880
Svendborg, Sallinge, Nørre Broby, Nørrebroby by og sogn, en gaard, 2, FT-1880, B0241
Mads Hansen 39 Gift huusfader, landmand Nørrebroby
Maren Kirstine Rasmussen 46 Gift huusmoder dito [Nørrebroby]
Frederik Rasmussen 7 Ugift pleiebørn Altona <------------born about 1873
Niels Peter Rasmussen 1 Ugift pleiebørn Vattinge??
Lars Madsen 19 Ugift tjenestekarl Nørrebroby
Karen Kirstine Andersen 27 Ugift tjenestepige dito [Nørrebroby]


A Dane could switch last names (from father's first name + sen, switch to a family surname). A foster child/pleiebørn could be an orphan or illegitimate child and switch from his mother's maiden name to his father's name. Just thinking out loud...

==================================================
I wonder if Agnes married a man named Christopherson, since Agnes Christopherson was given as a possible mother's name.

I hope Lissa will hear from that Danish cousin of this family. And now good night.

[Riemke Christie]

I wish to sincerely thank all of the people who have provided information.  What you have said has been most helpful and the riddle that we have at the Australian end is now starting to unravel (we hope).  We will re-commence our Australian Immigration searches using Viggo Christiansen with that person's  DOB.

[Inge Hedal]

Hi again,
Hamburg is the second largest city of Germany, a few hours' drive from Denmark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg

1880
Svendborg, Sallinge, Nørre Broby, Nørrebroby by og sogn, en gaard, 2, FT-1880, B0241
Mads Hansen 39 Gift huusfader, landmand Nørrebroby
Maren Kirstine Rasmussen 46 Gift huusmoder dito [Nørrebroby]
Frederik Rasmussen 7 Ugift pleiebørn Altona born about 1873
Niels Peter Rasmussen 1 Ugift pleiebørn Vattinge??
Lars Madsen 19 Ugift tjenestekarl Nørrebroby
Karen Kirstine Andersen 27 Ugift tjenestepige dito [Nørrebroby]

Altona is interesting in our context, as Frits Frederik came from Hamburg. Altona was a Danish town until 1864 when we lost one of our wars with Germany. Nowadays it is one of the suburbs of Hamburg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altona,_Hamburg

This is Vera Viola, who was blind: http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/ppl/e/5/b6d3de0790b5ce45b5e.html
Sincerely, Inge

[Jane C]

Ah, so Hamborg is Hamburg by your reading Inge. Thank you. I thought perhaps the Swedish city. And there is also a small place called Hamborg in southern Germany. If you are comfortable saying it is Hamburg that is meant as Frederik Christiansen's birth place, then the boy Frederik Rasmussen age 7 from Altona (living in Mads Hansen's house in Nørre Broby in 1880) is very much like him indeed. One guesses he was put to work at that house rather than being a little "son" of the family? Would that be the case?

My understanding is that it would be difficult to research a birth in Altona/Hamburg.

It is amazing to see the photo of the sweet little Vera Viola.

Riemke, it's a lot of new information, some of it a little hard to swallow. I'm sorry the parents turned out different (that could be disappointing for a person) but again that is more normal than one might think. Do you know how to access the 1911 Odense census with the family living at Jens Benzonsgade 43, opslag 63. Also the 1921 Odense census for Provstegade 4, opslag 12, where part of the family is listed.

Seeing the family members grouped together solidifies the identification of the family. Since you knew so much about the Danish family - all those siblings! and some of their names a bit unusual  - you've made it possible to identify the family group as a whole. It is almost impossible to believe another family could have that specific constellation of siblings.

Vic had worked as a kok (cook) in Copenhagen per the police registry. You had a story that he'd worked as a cook on a ship, as we have seen many young men do who wanted to go to sea and/or see the world. Thus it could be he has found passage to Australia as a crewman. Just an idea.

[Jane C]

More about Vera Viola Christiansen of Odense and husband Anders Andersen:

http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/img/9/7/b828c12b7d82c39c479.html

http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/img/3/9/b828c11833f65d5b393.html

http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/img/3/9/b828b9e09ec1493b393.html


Frits Frederik Kristiansen (Kristjansen) / Christiansen on Lone's family tree
Spouse: Nielsine Andrea Hansen
http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/ppl/8/3/b6d3de096167aff4a38.html


Vera Viola Christiansen Andersen's son Jorgen (1933 - 2003)
http://www.it-la.dk/Anetavle/ppl/1/1/b6d3de07d710db35111.html
Jorgen and family emigrated to Sydney Australia in 1968, returned to Denmark...see the link.

[Jane C]

Another child for the family is listed on Lone's tree:
Kurt Emil Christiansen born 19 January 1909 baptized 12 April 1909 Ansgar Sogn, Odense

If this is correct then the list of siblings is thus:

Aage Christiansen born 26 February 1896 in Fangel, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Agnes Gerde Christiansen born 18 September 1898, Vor Frue, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Kai Vilhelm Christiansen born 4 February 1901, Fangel, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Viggo Marinus Christiansen born 11 January 1903, Sct. Knud, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Otto Ejnar Christiansen born 13 October 1904, Nødager, Djurs Sønder, Randers, Denmark
Svend Oskar Christiansen born 24 September 1906, Hasselager, Kolt, Ning, Aarhus, Denmark
Kurt Emil Christiansen born 19 January 1909 Ansgar, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Helga Ella Christiansen born 9 June 1910, Ansgar, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Vera Viola Kristiansen born 22 October 1912, Skt Hans, Odense, Odense, Denmark
Ebba Ragnhild born 15 December 1913, Vor Frue, Odense, Odense, Denmark


Below we can see Gjertrude Larsdatter/Larsen, who is mother to Nielsine Andrea Hansen, as found by Paul (Nielsine born 9 Sep 1875, parents Lars Christian Hansen and Gjertrud Larsen age 43, Fangel, Odense, Odense, record found in the churchbook opslag 24 nr 6)


1834
Præstø, Baarse, Ørslev, Ørslöv Bÿe, hus, 78.fam., FT-1834, B3561
Lars Hansen 41 Gift husmand og væver
Cathrine Lars Datter 39 Gift hans kone
Hans Larsen 12 Ugift deres børn
Rasmus Larsen 10 Ugift deres børn
Niels Larsen 4 Ugift deres børn
Gjertrud Chirstine Lars Datter 2 Ugift deres børn


1845
Præstø, Baarse, Ørslev, Ørslev Bye, et hus, 95, FT-1845, B5347
Lars Hansen 52 Gift husmand og væver Ørslev
Cathrine Larsdatter 49 Gift hans kone Ørslev
Rasmus Larsen 21 Ugift deres børn Ørslev
Niels Larsen 15 Ugift deres børn Ørslev
Gertrud Larsdatter 10 Ugift deres børn Ørslev
Karen Larsdatter 7 Ugift deres børn Ørslev

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Kurt Emil Kristiansen was born on 15 Jan 1909, Ansgar, Odense, Odense, opslag 58 nr 4. 

Sincerely,
Paul

[Inge Hedal]

Hi,
In 1909, November 12, Kurt Emil died, 10 months old. Jens Benzonsgade 43. Odense, Ansgar 1902-1914, opslag 68, nr 36. He was born Heden 66.

Source: http://www.virgo-fyn.dk/html/kirkehtm/ansg127.html
Sincerely, Inge

[Jane C]

In the death record, Kurt is called "søn af skrædder nu brødkusk Frits Frederik Christiansen..."

It's possible Aage had died before the list of Vic's siblings was made in Australia.

Riemke, another way of verifying this connection still more than is already apparent would be to track down descendants of the many siblings to see if they have a story of the brother who went to Australia.

[Riemke Christie]

Hello Jane,

You and the others have been so helpful.  Carl (Viggo- Carl Victor's son) and I really appreciated all the effort.  After all our searching, to suddenly be confronted with so much information is a little overwhelming.  It will take us a little while to put it all together.  You asked if I knew how to check census records.  I had attempted to do this some time ago but did not succeed.  Probably because I was entering incorrect date.  The translator is coming in very useful.  The theory that Agnes may have married someone named Christopherson is an interesting theory.  Not sure how to go about tracking siblings. It would be great to find some more family members.  We met Lone when we visited Denmark this year.  She has been very helpful to.  Another thing, why did Carl's father tell us that his parents were Kai and Agnes?   You are probably correct though in thinking that there is too much of a co-incidence that this not be the family of Viggo (Carl Victor).  Carl's has also updated our web site.   So far no luck with records here in Australia.  Will keep working on that side of things too.

I can see that we are going to be very busy for some time to come.  Thank you again one and all,

Riemke

[Jane C]

Hi Riemke, Yes, I wondered about you guys being a bit at a loss how to react.  At the same time I felt gratified for you when I saw Paul's research findings and Inge's insightful suggestions. Processing all of it will take time.

You ask a momentous question:  "Why did Carl's father tell us that his parents were Kai and Agnes?" I have no answer except that we've all seen similar things before, involving wonderful, loving (and loved)people. You probably will have many discussions about it and the insights will emerge there. I could comment more - but seems emails would be a more appropriate medium so write if you wish.

You'd like to find relatives. Some people in this forum have a track record in connecting people to living descendants. How they do it I do not know. You could start a new thread with a request for help with this. If so insert a link to this old thread. A DNA match with a descendant would be final proof. I think Carl has to be compared with a male descended from a male?

About the census records, my question wasn't meant to be about searching, but rather whether you could view the specific census records cited here, if you have the skills to use the database. Sounds like you do. Good.

About the family website: you might want to insert the surname after each first name to tag it for internet browsers (to help any possible seekers to find you). I hope you don't mind this (unsolicited) advice and thank you for your patience with it.

The reference to a blended family confused me. You realize Paul found the same parents for all those siblings? The langage is yours to choose, I'm just checking that you understand the situation.

Also, the website states: "Vic left Denmark on the ship MS Asia in September 1922, arriving in Sydney, Australia, in April 1923 (he was then 19 years of age). Whilst Vic had originally intended to travel to Perth, Western Australia, he had already spent 7 months on the ship and didn't wish to spend another month at sea."

I wonder whether you have that immigration record or what is the source. This puzzles me because I think it took far less time to get to Australia from Denmark in 1922? It's the reference to "seven months" that originally made me think he was working on a ship rather than sailing as a passenger. Also the forum has so often encountered immigrants to Australia who stayed there having arrived as a crewman on a ship. If he was a crewman, that does not (in my mind) contradict the story about the competition he won, the plans for going to Canada falling through, and the man who facilitated his getting to Australia.

[Hanne Bjørn]

I have been reading Lone´s family story. She has been in Australia together with her parents and brother from 24. dec. 1968. They moved back to DK in 1975 because of her mother´s illness.
I think Lone Andersen still lives in 6400 Sønderborg as she did in 2006.
regards
Hanne Bjørn

[Riemke Christie]

Hello Hanne,

You are correct.  Lone does live in Sonderborg.  In May when we were in Odense, she came up from Sonderborg to meet with Carl and myself.  We had a very nice day with Lone as our tour guide.

Riemke

[Jane C]

It's a delightful connection you've made Riemke.
And thanks Hanne for conveying that.


Here are Frits Frederik Kristensen and Nielsine Andrea Hansen working as servants/laborers in 1890:

1890
Svendborg, Sallinge, Nørre Broby, Nørrebroby, huus, 2, FT-1890, B0689
Kristjan Madsen Lund 31 Gift husfader skrædermester Nørrebroby, Svendborg Amt Hansine Pedersen 34 Gift husmoder Jordløse sogn, Svendborg Amt
M;arie Elise Hansen 13 Ugift datter Haarby sogn, Assens Amt
Kristen Marius Madsen Lund 6 Ugift søn Nørrebroby, Svendborg Amt
Valborg Mathilde Madsen Lund 4 Ugift datter dito [Nørrebroby, Svendborg Amt]
Mads Peder Madsen Lund 2 Ugift søn dito [Nørrebroby, Svendborg Amt]
Ingeborg Hansine Madsen Lund under 1 aar, 5/8 89 Ugift datter dito [Nørrebroby, Svendborg Amt]
Jens Nielsen 21 Ugift tjenestetyende svend Verninge sogn, Odense Amt
Magnus Johan Kalleberg 21 Ugift dito [tjenestetyende] svend Sverrig
Frits Frederik Kristensen 17 Ugift dito [tjenestetyende] dreng Hamburg

There is no Frederik in the household of Mads Hansen in 1890 and I didn't find Frederik Rasmussen elsewhere.  


1890
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel, gaard, , FT-1890, B0318
...many people in this record...
Nielsine Andrea Hansen 14 Ugift tjenestetyende do [Fangel sogn, Odense Amt]


And Nielsine's parents:

1890
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel, hus, , FT-1890, B0318
Lars Kristian Hansen 51 Gift husfader tømrer do [born in Fangel sogn, Odense Amt]
Gjertrud Larsen 56 Gift husmoder born in Orte sogn, Odense Amt
Hans Kristian Hansen 21 Ugift barn snedkersvend born in Fangel sogn, Odense Amt Martha Marie Hansen 23 Ugift [born in Fangel sogn, Odense Amt]
Jørgen Peter Hansen 9 Ugift [born in Fangel sogn, Odense Amt]


This record, below, may be Nielsine Andrea Hansen's mother Gjertrude (Vic's maternal grandmother) when Gjertrude was a toddler. This Gjertrude's mother is unmarried servant girl Anne Hansdatter:

1834
Odense, Baag, Orte, Ladegaard mark,et huus, , 26, FT 1834, A8755
Niels Larsen 47 gift huusmand og daglejer
Maren Pedersdatter 57 gift hans kone
Anne Hansdatter 27 ugift tjenestepige
Gjertrud Larsen 1 ugift hendes barn

In 1845 Gjertrude is in the same household without her mother, as a foster child:

1845
Odense, Baag, Orte, , Aalsmoshuus, 2, FT-1845, B7309
Niels Larsen 61 Gift kurvemager Vedtofte sogn, Nye Odense Amt
Maren Petersdatter 65 Gift kone Ørsted sogn, Nye Odense Amt
Gjertrud Larsdatter 12 Ugift pleiebarn born in Orte sogn, Nye Odense Amt

This Gjertrud as a servant in 1850:

1850
Odense, Baag, Orte, Ladegård By, En Gård, 92, FT-1850, B1168
Jens Poulsen 68 Enke(mand) Gdm.Husfader Orte
Rasmus Christian Jensen 27 Ugift hans Børn Orte
Hans Jensen 20 Ugift hans Børn Orte
Kirsten Jensdatter 29 Ugift hans Børn Orte
Karen Marie Jensdatter 23 Ugift hans Børn Orte
Mads Johansen 36 Ugift Tjenestefolk Gjelsted Odense A.
Gjertrud Larsen 16 Ugift Tjenestefolk Orte

[Jane C]

Nielsine Andrea's father Lars Christian Hansen might be this boy in 1840 (so that would be Vic's maternal grandfather):

1840
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel Bye, Et huus, 25, FT-1840, B5515
Hans Jørgensen 30 Gift Huusmand og dagleier
Anne Marie Larsdatter 28 Gift Hans kone (she could possibly be daughter to Lars Hansen)
Jørgen Hansen 4 - Deres sønner
Lars Christian Hansen 2 - Deres sønner
Lars Hansen 73 Gift Inderste og aftægtsmand, gift med Anne Cht. Hindrichsd. under no. 87

1845
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel By og Sogn, Et huus, 35, FT-1845, B6742
Hans Jørgensen 36 Gift Huusmand, lever af sin jordlod Brylle sogn, Odense Amt
Anne Marie Larsdatter 33 Gift Hans kone Her i sognet [Fangel]
Jørgen Hansen 9 Ugift Deres børn do [Fangel]
Lars Christian Hansen 7 Ugift Deres børn do [Fangel]
Marie Kirstine Hansen 5 Ugift Deres børn do [Fangel]
Maren Hansen 2 Ugift Deres børn do [Fangel]
Lars Hansen 74 Enke(mand) Almisselem Allesøe sogn, Odense Amt


1901
Odense, Odense, Fangel, Fangel, 72b, 13, FT-1901, C4183
Lars Christian Hansen 11. december 1838 Enke Husfader Tømrer born in Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt
Kristine Hansen 27. februar 1873 Ugift Barn Husbestyrerinde (his daughter, housekeeper) born in Fangel Sogn, Odense Amt

[Riemke Christie]

Wow Jane,

Thank you yet again.    Funny how things pop up out of the blue.  You mentioned DNA testing as a possibility to confirm a family link.  Just this afternoon I read an article about doing just that.  We, especially Carl, have been really busy compiling all the bits of information. 

You have been a fabulous help.

Riemke

[Lone Andersen]

Hello

As you've discovered, I have a web page, with all our family's history.
You are all welcome to follow the updating and adding of family member's during the oncoming winter.
   
I'm not sure, that I agree about Carl being a Viggo.
Reason:
Riemke, send me a document: Intent to marry - Vic is 33 years in 1934. And a little math: 1934-33 = 1901
If he told the truth about his age, he would be born in 1901....

In the family we have: Kai Vilhelm Christensen, born 4. feb. 1901..... He is the one that I would say, turns out to be: Carl Victor...

In the Censers for: odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Provstegade 4, forhus stuen, , 12, FT-1921, C3805


Frits Frederik Christiansen
21/10 1872
Gift
Husfader
Handelsmand
Hamborg

Sine Andrea Christiansen (Nielsine)
9/9 1875
Gift
Husmoder
Fangel

Kaj Vilhelm Christiansen
4/2 1901
Ugift
Barn
Snedkersvend
Fangel

Helga Ella Christiansen
9/6 1910
Ugift
Barn
Odense

Vera Viola Christiansen (my paternal grandmother) (both she and my paternal grandfather were blind)
22/10 1912
Ugift
Barn i Familien
Odense

Ebba Ragnhild Christiansen
15/12 1913
Ugift
Barn
Odense

Kai Vilhelm is, as you can see, a trained carpenter in 1921...

I'm not 100% sure, but, I have a god feeling about this.   

Love Lone

[Jane C]

Hi Lone, so nice to meet you. I love your family history website - beautifully presented.

About Vic's birth year: The family in Australia has several documents with birth years for Vic, and the birth year varies. Am I remembering that right?

The family knowledge is that he was born 11 January 1904.
Viggo Marinus Christiansen was born 11 January 1903.

A birth day and month are important. I would guess they are more likely than a birth year to be consistent with the facts.

Carl Victor returned to Denmark with his wife one time, and they visited Odense. They told the children, "We are visiting the town where your father was born." Kai Vilhelm was born in Fangel. Viggo Marinus was born in Odense.

Kai Vilhelm seems more likely to become Carl William in Australia, although in any case the name is certainly changed, probably for the same reason (assimilation) immigrants often modified their names.

This link shows Viggo in København in 1919 working as a cook. He has been exploring the world beyond his hometown already. And Vic in Australia talked about an early job as a cook on a ship.
http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1346936&searchname=polit_simple

If Viggo Marinus or Kai Vilhelm can be found in Denmark after 1921, then we will know with certainty "who is who."

[Jane C]

On a different subject....

At one time Viggo Marinus Christiansen lived at Gothersgade 175 in Copenhagen, in the home of the owner of the Café de la Reine. Viggo's job title on the police population register was "cook," so perhaps he worked at that café.  I googled the address, which is in Søtorvet (the Lake Square).

"Søtorvet іs аn elegant late 19th century residential development facing The Lakes in Copenhagen, Denmark. It flanks the end of Frederiksborggade, where it turns into the Queen Louise Bridge, at the intersection with Vester, Nørre, and Øster Søgade."
From Wikipedia entry on Søtorvet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Søtorvet,_Copenhagen

"The Lakes" in Copenhagen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lakes,_Copenhagen

From an article online about the Søtorvet residential area:
Poet's Lounge with Piano Music
By Hanne Fabricus
Copenhagen's original fortifications were taken out of service in 1870. It was therefore possible to build in the old no-build zone. In 1873-76 two symmetrical palatial properties were built at Søtorvet facing the lakes. The client was a construction company called "Det kjøbenhavnske Byggeselskab," an initiative of tycoon C.F. Tietgen. The monumental building complex flanks each side of Frederiksborggade towards Gothersgade and Vendersgade. The buildings form an impressive entrance from Nørrebro to Copenhagen. The entrance itself wasn't finished until 1887, when Vilhelm Dahlerup built Dronning Louise's Bridge. This bridge replaced the old brick Peblinge bridge.

Pavement café out of the rain
One of the first people to move in to the large new flats was actress Johanne Luise Heiberg. Despite the bad stoves, doors and windows, she loved the view of the lakes.
     In about 1900, the Café de la Reine – Queen's Café – opened behind the large bay windows on Søtorvet 2. The pavement restaurant was covered – which was unusual back then. It was therefore quickly nicknamed Cafe let it rain". In the 1930s, poets such as Sigfred Pedersen and Otto Gelsted gathered there, jumping on tables to read out their latest poems. Niels Clemmensen sat at the piano and composed music for many of Sigfred Pedersen's poems. The party was over, though, when Germany occupied Denmark in 1940 and the poets' cafe was closed. "

I was charmed by all this - especially as distant (very distant) connection to Johanne Luise Heiberg.
: D