Adolph Møller of Naestved

[Richard Miller]

Hello,

My great grandfather Adolph Møller was born in Naestved about 1837, a son of Hans Christian Faur Møller (b. about 1792) of Aarhus and Nicoline Clausine Jensen (b. about 1807) of Naestved.  I believe Hans Christian Faur is the correct name.

Adolph married Rosa Kamilla Emilie Lerche (b. 1850) before 1867.  I have found much information about the Lerche family, but nothing about the ancestry of Hans Christian Faur Møller. 

Can anyone provide the history of this branch of the Møller family before Hans Christian Faur, the year Adolph and Rosa married, and the year Adolph died?

Thank you.

Richard Miller
USA

[Lis B. Jensen]

Hi Richard

It could be this one:
Household: Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, 1801, 184, Studsgade, 212

Kildenavn (Name), Alder (Age), Køn (Gender), Civilstand (Civilstate), Nr. ægteskab No of Marriage), Stilling i husstanden (Place in Householsd), Kildeerhverv (Occupation),
Johan Müller, 42, Gift, 1, husbond, musikantersvend,
Mette Margrethe Frausing, 41, Gift, 1, hans kone,
Christian Peter Müller, 10, Ugift, deres søn,
Poul Frausing Müller, 6,  Ugift, deres søn,
Hans Christian Müller, 4, Ugift, deres søn,

When I look in the census in 1845 and 1850 - I can see he is born in Aarhus.

If You wnat more translations and the census let's know.

[John Wrenholt]

Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, Kattebjerget, , , 56 F1, FT-1840

Hans Møller   48   Gift      Sadelmager   
Necoline Jensen   32   Gift      hans Kone   
Oline Møller   12   Ugift      deres Børn   
Hansine Møller   11   Ugift      deres Børn   
Anne Møller   9   Ugift      deres Børn   
Johanne Møller   5   Ugift      deres Børn   
Christian Møller   4   Ugift      deres Børn   
Adolph Møller   2   Ugift      deres Børn   
Frederikke Møller   1   Ugift      deres Børn   

Adolph Møller was born 17 Dec 1837. You can find his birth record in the 1832-1847 Næstved Skt Morton, Hammer, Præstø churchbook on ops 24.

[Lis B. Jensen]

Here is the family until 1850:

Husstand: Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, 1834, 178-F2, Nestved Kiøbstad, Krumportstræde No 56

Kildenavn, Alder, Køn, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Kildeerhverv,
Hans Christian Faur Møller, 42, M, Gift, Sadelmager,
Nicoline Clausine Jensen, 25, K, Gift, hans Kone
Oline Evardine Jensen, 7, K, Ugift, deres Børn
Hansine Dorothea Jensen, 5, K, Ugift, deres Børn
Ane Marie Jensen, 3, K, Ugift, deres Børn


Husstand: Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, 1840, 56 F1, Kattebjerget,

Kildenavn, Alder, Køn, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Kildeerhverv,
Hans Møller, 48, Gift (=Married), Sadelmager (=Sattlemaker),
Necoline Jensen, 32, Gift, hans Kone (his Wife),
Oline Møller, 12, Ugift (=Unmarreid), deres Børn (Their Children),
Hansine Møller, 11, Ugift, deres Børn,
Anne Møller, 9, Ugift, deres Børn,
Johanne Møller, 5, Ugift, deres Børn,
Christian Møller, 4, Ugift, deres Børn,
Adolph Møller, 2, Ugift, deres Børn,
Frederikke Møller, 1, Ugift, deres Børn,

Husstand: Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, 1845, 56, Nestved Kiøbstad, Kattebjerget

Kildenavn, Alder, Kildefødested, Køn, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Kildeerhverv,
Hans Møller, 49, Aarhuus, Gift, sadelmager,
Nicoline Jensen, 38, Nestved, Gift, hans kone,
Marie Møller, 14, do [Nestved], Ugift, deres datter (Their Daughter),
Johanne Møller, 11, do [Nestved], Ugift, do [deres datter],
Christian Møller, 10, do [Nestved], Ugift, deres søn (=Their Son),
Adolph Møller, 8, do [Nestved], Ugift, do [deres søn],
Frederik Wilh. Møller, 6, do [Nestved], Ugift, do [deres søn],
Carl Møller, 2, do [Nestved], Ugift, do [deres søn],
Margrethe Møller, 3, do [Nestved], Ugift, deres datter,
Regine Møller, 1, do [Nestved], Ugift, do [deres datter],
******
These are not members of the Family – but a new Family in the same house:
Hans Larsen, 34, Everdrup sogn, Præstøe Amt, Gift, tjenestekarl,
Marie Hansen, 35, Marstal, Gift, hans kone,
Maren Hansdatter, 8, Everdrup sogn, Præstøe Amt, Ugift, deres datter,
Hansine Hansdatter, 2, Nestved, Ugift, do [deres datter],

Husstand: Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, 1850, 65-F1, Øster Fjerding - Krumportstræde, No. 56

Kildenavn, Alder, Kildefødested, Køn, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Kildeerhverv,
Hans Møller, 54, Aarhuus, Gift, Sadelmager, Huusfader(head of Household),
Nikoline Jensen, 44, Næstved, Gift, Hans Kone,
Anne Marie, 20, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Poul Christian, 15, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Adolph, 13, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Wilhelm, 10, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Enger Magrete, 8, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Regine, 6, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Julius, 4, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,
Carl Erhardt, 7, Næstved, Ugift, Deres Børn,

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Richard,

Christian Müller was born 10 Nov 1797 to Johanis Müller and Mette Margrethe Frausing, Aarhus domsogn, Hasle, Aarhus, opslag 589.

Johan Müller and Mette Frausing were married in Aahus vor Frue, Hasle, Aarhus on 1 Jun 1789, opslag 193.

Sincerely,
Paul
North Carolina, USA

[Richard Miller]

Thank you all very much for replying! 

Lis and Paul, those are the first references I've seen to Hans Møller's parents.  Johan was a "musikantersvend"?   Google translates as "musician's companion."  Assistant musician?

Is the spelling "Möller" instead of "Møller" significant?  My great grandmother (Adolph's wife) wrote "Möller," while all the documents I've found read "Møller." 

Thank!

Richard   

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Richard,

From what I have seen Møller, Möller, and Müller were often used interchangably in the older records.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Richard Miller]

Hello Paul,

Glad to hear that.  So when my grandfather became "Miller" he was just following an old cultural tradition.  At least he preserved the meaning of the original name.

Best,

Richard

[Ralph Rasmussen]

In the 1789 marriage Mette's father (most likely) is a guarantor.  But the only two Frausings in the 1787 census are old enough, and prominent enough, to be the father of 'Jomfrue' Frausing, without a daughter living with either of them who would be Mette.

In the 1801 census Mette should have been born in 1761.  I don't see a Mette baptized at Vor Frue at about that time.

Working forward from the 1789 marriage could be eased by looking at the family as written up on Family Search.

Frausing/Fravsing is a village and a manor north of Silkeborg, probably in Hinge parish.

'Med venlig hilsen'
-Ralph

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Richard,

And now for the female side of your family.  All these records are from Næstved, Hammer, Præstø.

Nikoline Clausine Jensen was born 28 Apr 1807, parents Ole Jensen and Anne Margrethe Clausensdatter, opslag 52 nr 3.

Ole Jensen and Anne Margrethe Clausensdatter were married on 20 Jun 1804, opslag 319 nr 8.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Richard Miller]

Many thanks, Ralph and Paul.

On FamilySearch I found Mette Marie Frausing and Johan ("Jens" in another listing) Muller married "03 Jun 1789 Vor Frue,​ Aarhus,​ Aarhus,​ Denmark."

I also found these:
http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=267533&sort=f
http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=267534&sort=f

It appears their daughter Katrine died between the time the two documents were written.

I'm delighted to know the names of my 3rd great grandparents, Paul.  Mange tak!

Richard

[Anni Larsen]

Hi.
Adolph Møller died 24. march 1896 in Næstved.

Death-record Næstved Skt. Morten parish, Hammer district, Præstø county, 1892-1896, opslag 190 no 14:
Adolph Møller.
Died 24. march 1896 Præstø county hospital, St. Mortens parish, Næstved.
Buried 31. march 1896 Næstved Churchyard, III Litr. U.
Married. Cattle dealer. (Address) Prolongation of Ringstedgade no 2, Næstved.
Wife Camilla, b. Lerche. 58 years old.

Regards
Anni

[Richard Miller]

Thank you so much, Anni!  This means a lot to my family.

Best regards,

Richard

[Ralph Rasmussen]

A quick footnote to Paul's latest:

Næstved Skt. Mortens 1741-1805, opslag 319, the bride is Ane Magrethe Clausen, Sl (salige, the late) Petersen's (widow).  It is also noted that the probate has been settled.

mvh
-Ralph

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hej Ralph,

Thanks for reading the original.  I thought it was Clausen dt.  The Gothic script really throws me.

mvh
Paul

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

I think this is Ane Margrethe with her first husband in the 1801 census.

All persons in the household

Præstø, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, Nestved Kiøbstæd, , Ringsted Gade 97, 131, FT-1801
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Zacharias Petersen   30    Gift   Huusbonde   Kiøbmand   
Anne Margrethe Clausen   25    Gift   hans Kone      
Jens Emanuel Saelberg   18    Ugift   -   Kramboedreng   
Jacob Christensen   25    Ugift   -   Gaardskarl   
Mette Hansdatter   24    Ugift   Tienestepige      
Anders Rasmuseen   34    Ugift   Logerende   Tærskemand   

Sincerely,
Paul

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Here is Ane Magrethe/Anne Margrethe in 1801, born according to the reckoning in the 1801 census about 1777.

praestoe, Tybjerg, Næstved Købstad, Nestved Kiøbstæd, Ringsted Gade 97, 131, FT-1801, B6472
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Zacharias Petersen 30  Gift Huusbonde Kiøbmand 
Anne Margrethe Clausen 25  Gift hans Kone   
Jens Emanuel Saelberg 18  Ugift - Kramboedreng 
Jacob Christensen 25  Ugift - Gaardskarl 
Mette Hansdatter 24  Ugift Tienestepige   
Anders Rasmuseen 34  Ugift Logerende Tærskemand

mvh
-Ralph

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Maybe Anne Margrethe with her father (it looks as if this is his second wife and not Anne Margrethe's mother) and siblings in the 1787 census.

All persons in the household

Præstø, Tybjerg, Sankt Peders, Maglemølle, , En Mølle, 11, FT-1787
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Peder Clausen   62    Gift   Mand   Møller   
Kirstine Svendsdatter   49    Gift   Kone      
Evert Clausen   12    Ugift   Mandens barn      
Anna Margrethe Clausen   10    Ugift   Mandens barn      
Jacob Clausen   70    Enkemand   Mandens Broder   Fattig   
Anna Maria Hansdatter   19    Ugift   Mandens Brøderbørn      
Kirstine Hansdatter   11    Ugift   Mandens Brøderbørn      
Peder Johansen   26    Ugift   Tjenestefolk      
Jacob Ipsen   19    Ugift   Tjenestefolk      

Sincerely,
Paul

[Richard Miller]

I'm grateful for this Paul and Ralph.  Please don't tell me it's all available on the Dansk Demografisk Database if only I would learn how to use it!

19-year-old Anna Maria Hansdatter who appears in the 1787 census may well be the Anne Maria Hansdatter (b. 1757) who married Carl Friderich Lerche (b. 1746) in 1774.  They were the great grandparents of Rosa Camilla Møller, Adolph's wife. 

So, the grandmother of a future husband was living in the same household as the great grandmother of his future wife long before either was born.  That's an amazing possibility.

Best,

Richard

[Paul Løndahl-Smidt]

Hi Richard,

From North Carolina, USA I was able to find the information by using three websites.  One is the transcribed censuses at http://ddd.dda.dk/ddd_en.htm

The next is the Mormon website at https://familysearch.org/

The third is the Danish church records and censuses at http://www.sa.dk/ao/.  This is the site that opslag refers to.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Trying to bridge the gap from the 1787 to the 1801 census, I found an Anne Margrethe Clausen/Clausdatter confirmed in Næstved Sankt Peder, 1742-1801, opslag 13, top left.  That should equate to the 1787 census place, yet the father or stepfather is 'F' Clausen.

I went through the marriages at St. Peders from 1794 to 1801 without finding anything that might fit.  And FS (Family Search) has nothing to give a lead.

mvh
-Ralph

[John Wrenholt]

The marriage of Adolph Møller to Rosa Camilla Emilie Lerche

Adolph's first marriage took place 19 Feb 1864 to Elise Catherine Anderson in Store Taastrup, Holbæk. (AO: 1860-1868 Store Taastrup, Merløse, Holbæk ops 82).  Together they had a least 1 child.  Elise Catherine Adolfine Møller was born 28 Oct 1866 (AO: 1861-1873 Karrebæk, Oster Flakkebjerg, Sorø ops 40).  The mother Elise Catherine Anderson died 4 Nov 1866.

By the time Adolph's next child Karl Kristian Paludan Møller was born 27 Jan 1870, he had married to Rosa Camilla Emilie Lerche.  This leaves a window of 1867-1869 for the wedding to have taken place.  However, I haven't been able to locate the marriage record because I don't know the location.

The yet-to-be-transcriped 1870 cenus (Karrebæk ops 68) shows:

Adolph Møller                                  age 32                      Næstved
Rose Camilla Emilie Nielsen                age 20                      Rosendal, Præsto  (why Nielsen?)
Yet-to-christened baby boy               under age 1              Karrebæk     (where is Elise, the first child?)
Heinrich Julius Møller                         age 23                      Næstved      (Adolph's brother?)

[Richard Miller]

John,

I've encountered many ancestors who remarried, but I had no idea Adolph had done so as well.  While not surprising, it's still...surprising! 

I had recorded a child of Adolph named Ilise born in 1867, but no evidence that the mother was someone other than Rosa Lerche.  Apparently that's the child you found who was born a year earlier than I had thought.

Adolph's next child was Carl, born 1870.  Given how often they had children, the 3-year difference seemed long.  This would explain it.

Nielsen?  First time I've seen that.  Could she have been a widow?

I can't thank you enough for this.

Richard

[Richard Miller]

My grandfather, Viggo Valdemar Johannes Møller (John Miller 1873-1960) was the only one of Adolph's children to emigrate to the US, arriving in Chicago in Oct 1893.  I've always wondered why he was the only one of the children to leave Denmark. 

Can someone suggest where, other than in personal papers, the circumstances of his departure might be recorded?  I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he had to leave.  If he had a legal problem, is there a Naestved newspaper or legal archive that can be searched?

Richard

[Jørgen Nielsen]

 Hans Christian Mueller's parents was: Johan Mueller, b. 1758, died March 20 1822 in Aarhus and Mette Margrethe (Pedersdatter) Frausing, b. July 1 1759 in Grønbæk sogn, died Dec. 27 1835 in Aarhus. They married on June 3 1789 in Vor Frue sogn, Aarhus.
Mette Margrethe Frausing's parents was: Peder Poulsen Frausing, died 1763 in Ans Kro, bur. Sept. 7 1763 and Anne Tyrjesdatter Bøggild, b. Sept. 30 1725 in Grønbæk sogn, bur. May 31 1764 in Grønbæk sogn.
Anne Tyrjesdatter Bøggild's parents was: Tyrje Jensen Bøggild, died Aug. 15 1729 in Ans Kro and Margrethe Jensdatter, died June 25 1737 in Adslev.

[Lissa Pedersen]

From www.folketimidten.dk:

Sogn (parish): Århus Vor Frue Sogn     Herred (district): Hasle    Amt (county): Århus
Brudgom (groom): Johan  Muller    Opholdssted (residence): Århus
Brud (bride): Mette Magretha  Frausing    Opholdssted (residence): Århus
Vielsesdato (marriage date): 3. Juni 1789

Kirkebogens vielsesdata (church book marriage details):
Trolovelse (betrothal):   
Vielse (marriage): Onsdagen (Wednesday) d. 3die Junii  Copuleret (married) Musikant (musician) Svend Sr. Johan Muller og (and) Jomfrue (young unmarried girl) Mette Magretha Frausing i Huuset (in the house) [.. Kongebrev (royal permission) [..]. Som Forlovere (as bestmen) [...]: Frausing, Fischer
Arkiv: C 360 A-1    Folie: 292
Noter (notes): 

You will find a number more Frausing on the webpage - find marriages under "vielsesdata" to the upper right on the page.

Lissa

[Jane C]

More about Tyrje Jensen Bøggild, died Aug. 15 1729 in Ans Kro, and wife Margrethe Jensdatter, died June 25 1737 in Adslev. It seems Margrethe Jensdatter had a sad death:

http://www.hornsyld.com/tyreb1729.html

A family tree includes some interesting notes about Johan Müller:
http://www.familiesporet.dk/pgv/individual.php?pid=I6222&ged=Correll_Dohlmann.ged&tab=0

"Farfaderen [of Adolph Møller]:  Johan Müller i 1787 som musikantsvend hos stadsmusikant ‎(town/city musician)‎ Friderich ‎(Frederik)‎ Fischer i Århus:

Stadsmusikant ‎(town/city musician)‎
En person, der havde ret og pligt til, alene eller sammen med andre, at levere festmusik for borgerne i den by, hvor han var ansat og i nogle tilfælde i et landdistrikt uden om byen
Kilde: Wikipedia, den frie encyklopædi

The town/city musician had exclusive rights to all music feast and similar among the citizens according to a fixed rate.

The town/city musician received a permanent modest salary for clearly defined services of an official character, with responsibility for training a necessary number of apprentices and journeymen.

Stadsmusikant:
musiker, der i en købstad havde eneret på at levere musik ved festlige lejligheder, kendt i Europa fra 1200-t., indtil næringsfriheden slog igennem i 1800-t. Musikanten var ansat af bystyret, og til gengæld for sin pligt til at stå til rådighed for magistraten og måske for kirken fik han eneret på erhvervsmæssig udøvelse af musik i den pågældende by. Erhvervet var organiseret med svende og læredrenge efter forbillede fra håndværkernes lavsvæsen. Orlando Gibbons og Johann Sebastian Bach var sønner af stadsmusikanter."
Kilde: Den Store Danske

FT-1787: Aarhus, Hasle, Aarhus Købstad, , Middel Gade, 137,
Kilde: ddd.dda.dk, FT-1787, A2012:
Friderich Fischer, 37, g, hosbonde, stadsmusikant ‎(town musician)‎
Maren Buchtrup, 30, g, hans kone
Jens Buchtrup, 5, u, deres søn, hjemme til opdragelse
Andreas, 3, u, deres søn, hjemme til opdragelse
Johan Carl, 2, u, deres søn, hjemme til opdragelse
Mette Marie, 6, u, deres datter, hjemme til opdragelse
Giertrud Marie, 1, u, deres datter, hjemme til opdragelse
* Johan Muller, 26, u, musikantsvend ‎(town musician journeyman)‎
Mathias Bering, 21, u, musikantsvend
Kiersten Nielsdatter, 29, u, tjenestepige
Jacob Christian Mullertz, 31, u, sek.løjtnant ved 7. compagni
Jens Christian Mullertz, 27, u, sek.løjtnant ved 8. compagni
Johan Wilhelm Sager, 19, u, tambour ved 7. compagni
Berger Jonasen, 25, u, musketer ved 8. compani