Please help this kiwi trace my Flensborg born Danish great grt grt grandfather.

[DelSaunders]

Hello,

I am trying to locate information on Frederick Ohlson/Ohlsen ( both spellings have been used on records in New Zealand)

Frederick was born c1832 in Flensborg, he gives his nationality as Danish on all records in New Zealand.

It is believed that his parents were Marcus and Ann/Anna Christene Ohlson/Ohlsen. ( no known exact spelling for their first names)

Frederick was a master mariner and immigrated to New Zealand 1855 and was Naturalised in 1858. He married and had a family here in New Zealand. Frederick died NZ 1894.

I found a record on the igi but due to the fact that I have no knowledge of the Danish language, I am unable to assitain if the people are even connected. Have added thid in case it could be correct or ruled out.

Marcus Ohlsen
Anna Christina Neilson
son- Marcus Ohlsen -26 JUN 1836 Bov, Aabenraa-Sonderborg, Denmark


How likely would this be, is Sonderborg close to Flensborg?

Please please help me, this has been a brickwall for years

Regards
Del

[Agnete Waagstein]

Hello,

The babtism is found here: Bov, Lundtoft, Åbenrå page 215.

The entry is in German and my German is not that good, but the content is:

1836,
Born 12
baptism 26. June

Marcus Ohlsen of  ??  Marcus Ohlsen and Anna Christina born Nielsen, in Clues: a son

Sponsors:
Hinrich Lorenzen in Clues
Jürgen Nielsen
Anna Helene Sørensen

Sønderborg is close to Flensburg, about half an hour by car!
You should ask for a full translation in the forum to get the occupation of the father!

In 1836 Flensburg was Danish, therefore a son of Marcus – your Frederick - would regard himself as Danish.

Agnete Waagstein

[DelSaunders]

Hello,

The babtism is found here: Bov, Lundtoft, Åbenrå page 215.

The entry is in German and my German is not that good, but the content is:

1836,
Born 12
baptism 26. June

Marcus Ohlsen of  ??  Marcus Ohlsen and Anna Christina born Nielsen, in Clues: a son

Sponsors:
Hinrich Lorenzen in Clues
Jürgen Nielsen
Anna Helene Sørensen

Sønderborg is close to Flensburg, about half an hour by car!
You should ask for a full translation in the forum to get the occupation of the father!

In 1836 Flensburg was Danish, therefore a son of Marcus – your Frederick - would regard himself as Danish.


Agnete Waagstein

Wow that it awesome, Thank you so very much. Any ideas where to start looking for records for Frederick? This reply makes the igi record very possible.

Cheers
Del

[Eva Morfiadakis]

In 1887 a Charles Ohlson died at the age of 50 in New Zealand. Have you searched him? If it could be a brother. Charles is Carl/Karl. Ohlson is the Swedish spelling whereas Ohlsen is the Danish spelling but of course it is easy to mix up e and o.

Eva M

[John Wrenholt]

I did some Google research and see that you have been searching for this ancestor for some time.  I have two leads which may or may not prove useful.

First, I found this posting on a different genealogy website: "I am looking for information on Jens Neilsen Marcusen Ohlsen, son of Marcus Ohlsen and Christine Margaretha Nielsen. Jens was born approx. 1840 in Flensburg, Schleswig, Denmark. Came to Australia around 1865". 

There is a possibility in my mind that this person is searching for a brother of your Frederick.  It might be worthwhile for you to contact him if you haven't already.

Second, in searching the census data for 1845, I find the following info:

Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Møgeltønder en Bye, , 101, en Gaard, Fattig og Arbeidsanstalt, 181-F2, FT-1845
Anne Kirstine Ohlsen 47  Gift  Almisselemmer Tombøll Apenrade Amt
Diderich Ohlsen 13  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg
Jens Ohlsen 3  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg

This is a partial listing of families that are living on a poorfarm in Tonder Amt. Although his name is slightly different the age is correct as is the birthplace.  The father is not listed which would imply that he died sometime between 1842 to 1845.

[DelSaunders]

In 1887 a Charles Ohlson died at the age of 50 in New Zealand. Have you searched him? If it could be a brother. Charles is Carl/Karl. Ohlson is the Swedish spelling whereas Ohlsen is the Danish spelling but of course it is easy to mix up e and o.

Eva M

Hi Eva,

Thank you for the input, I have seen other Ohlson/Ohlsen records in New Zealand, and have mostly ruled them out.

Cheers
Del

[Inger Buchard]

AO Bov Baptisms 1808-1871 page 215 says:
birth: June 12. 1836
baptism: June 26. 1836
Marcus Ohlsen, des Dienstknechts Marcus Ohlsen
und Anna Christina geb. Nielsen in Clus ehel. Sohn
Sponsors: Hinrich Lorenzen in Clus
Jürgen Nielsen and Anna Helena Sörensen aus der Holebüller Gemeinde

The father was a farmworker

The two sponsors Jürgen Nielsen and Anna Helena Sörensen from Holbøl could be relatives of the mother Anna Christina Nielsen.

If I repeat the census 1845:
Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Møgeltønder en Bye, , 101, en Gaard, Fattig og Arbeidsanstalt, 181-F2, FT-1845
Anne Kirstine Ohlsen 47  Gift  Almisselemmer Tombøll Apenrade Amt
Diderich Ohlsen 13  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg
Jens Ohlsen 3  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg

it states that Anne Kirstine was born in Tombøl, Aabenraa; this is in the nearby Felsted parish.
Here I find what is probably her birth:
Felsted 1767-1828 page 204:
birth Jan. 15. baptism Jan. 23
Father:
Nicolay Nielsen, Köthner
Mother:
Cathrin Dorthea born Martin

The cencus 1845 says she is 47 - maybe the 42 was misread as 47?

If the sponsor Jürgen Nielsen in the birth entry 1836 is a brother of Ann Kiestin, you should find his birth in the church book of Felsted.

To the geografi of the area:
Felsted and Holebøl lie north of the Flensborg Fjord
Bov lies to day on the Danish side of the border, drawn 1920 after WW I; this parish was 1920 divided into two parts: the suburbs of Flensburg, i.e. Clues, Kupflermühle, Wassersleben became part of Flensburg on the German side of the border, while the village Bov and the town at the railway Padborg were Danish. You can see this on a road map, take www.viamichelin.de.

The parishes north of the Flensburg Fjord: look at the map at
http://www.sa.dk/media(915,1030)/LAA_-_De_nordslesvigske_sogne.pdf

The language of the church books changes in this area, depending on which national position the vicar chose. The people living in the parish would speak the lokal Danisch dialect.

Inger

[DelSaunders]

I did some Google research and see that you have been searching for this ancestor for some time.  I have two leads which may or may not prove useful.

First, I found this posting on a different genealogy website: "I am looking for information on Jens Neilsen Marcusen Ohlsen, son of Marcus Ohlsen and Christine Margaretha Nielsen. Jens was born approx. 1840 in Flensburg, Schleswig, Denmark. Came to Australia around 1865". 

There is a possibility in my mind that this person is searching for a brother of your Frederick.  It might be worthwhile for you to contact him if you haven't already.

Second, in searching the census data for 1845, I find the following info:

Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Møgeltønder en Bye, , 101, en Gaard, Fattig og Arbeidsanstalt, 181-F2, FT-1845
Anne Kirstine Ohlsen 47  Gift  Almisselemmer Tombøll Apenrade Amt
Diderich Ohlsen 13  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg
Jens Ohlsen 3  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg

This is a partial listing of families that are living on a poorfarm in Tonder Amt. Although his name is slightly different the age is correct as is the birthplace.  The father is not listed which would imply that he died sometime between 1842 to 1845.

Hi,

Thank you very much for the information. You are right I have been chasing this one for a while.
I will do a follow up on the messsageboard item, and have spotted this family tree online.

Thank you also for the,  census record, do you know what the name Dederick translates to roughly in English?

Cheers
Del

[DelSaunders]

AO Bov Baptisms 1808-1871 page 215 says:
birth: June 12. 1836
baptism: June 26. 1836
Marcus Ohlsen, des Dienstknechts Marcus Ohlsen
und Anna Christina geb. Nielsen in Clus ehel. Sohn
Sponsors: Hinrich Lorenzen in Clus
Jürgen Nielsen and Anna Helena Sörensen aus der Holebüller Gemeinde

The father was a farmworker

The two sponsors Jürgen Nielsen and Anna Helena Sörensen from Holbøl could be relatives of the mother Anna Christina Nielsen.

If I repeat the census 1845:
Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Møgeltønder en Bye, , 101, en Gaard, Fattig og Arbeidsanstalt, 181-F2, FT-1845
Anne Kirstine Ohlsen 47  Gift  Almisselemmer Tombøll Apenrade Amt
Diderich Ohlsen 13  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg
Jens Ohlsen 3  Ugift  Almisselemmer Flensborg

it states that Anne Kirstine was born in Tombøl, Aabenraa; this is in the nearby Felsted parish.
Here I find what is probably her birth:
Felsted 1767-1828 page 204:
birth Jan. 15. baptism Jan. 23
Father:
Nicolay Nielsen, Köthner
Mother:
Cathrin Dorthea born Martin

The cencus 1845 says she is 47 - maybe the 42 was misread as 47?

If the sponsor Jürgen Nielsen in the birth entry 1836 is a brother of Ann Kiestin, you should find his birth in the church book of Felsted.

To the geografi of the area:
Felsted and Holebøl lie north of the Flensborg Fjord
Bov lies to day on the Danish side of the border, drawn 1920 after WW I; this parish was 1920 divided into two parts: the suburbs of Flensburg, i.e. Clues, Kupflermühle, Wassersleben became part of Flensburg on the German side of the border, while the village Bov and the town at the railway Padborg were Danish. You can see this on a road map, take www.viamichelin.de.

The parishes north of the Flensburg Fjord: look at the map at
http://www.sa.dk/media(915,1030)/LAA_-_De_nordslesvigske_sogne.pdf

The language of the church books changes in this area, depending on which national position the vicar chose. The people living in the parish would speak the lokal Danisch dialect.

Inger

Hi,

Thank you so much for the exceptional explantion of the info that you found and followed up with. I will have to go off and research further.

Cheers
Del

[John Wrenholt]

Aabenraa, Lundtoft, Felsted, Dorfes Schobüll, , , 20, FT-1803
Nicolai Nielsen 41  Gift Hausvater Käthner 
Catharina Dorothea Hansen 35  Gift dessen frau   
Anna Maria 10   ihre Kinder   
Hans Peter 8   ihre Kinder   
Peter 5   ihre Kinder   
Helena 3   ihre Kinder   
Anna Christina 1   ihre Kinder

This appears to be the family that Inger has found, There is a Helena. Perhaps Jürgen was born later.

[DelSaunders]

Aabenraa, Lundtoft, Felsted, Dorfes Schobüll, , , 20, FT-1803
Nicolai Nielsen 41  Gift Hausvater Käthner 
Catharina Dorothea Hansen 35  Gift dessen frau   
Anna Maria 10   ihre Kinder   
Hans Peter 8   ihre Kinder   
Peter 5   ihre Kinder   
Helena 3   ihre Kinder   
Anna Christina 1   ihre Kinder

This appears to be the family that Inger has found, There is a Helena. Perhaps Jürgen was born later.

Hi,

I located a record at fam'search, that appears to be the same family as 1803 census.


Ann Kiestin Neilsen
baptism/christening date: 23 Jan 1803

baptism/christening place:  Felsted, Aabenraa-Sonderborg, Denmark

birth date: 15 Jan 1803

father's name: Nicolaij Neilsen

mother's name: Cathrin Dorthe Neilsen Martin

then the following for a death, however the burial date is before death date??


burial date: 17 Apr 1803

death date: 13 Apr 1803

death place: Felsted, Åbenrå, Denmark

age: 0

birth date: 1803

father's name: Nicolaij Neilsen

mother's name: Cathrin Dorthe Neilsen Martins


Do you think its is safe to assume that this is the same family as 1803 Census, and would rule out the possible birth record?


Cheers
Del

[Agnete Waagstein]

Hi,
According to the church book of Feldsted, Ann Kierstin was born Jan. 23. 1803 in Feldsted(page 204) and she died April 13. 1803 from whooping cough and she was buried April 17. 1803(page310).

Her parents were Nicolai Nielsen and Cathrin Dorthe Nielsen born Martin.
There seem to have been an epidemic of this still very dangerous disease for small children.

If you want to see the church records yourself you can visit http://www.sa.dk/ao
It's free of charge. There is an introduction in English, but do ask for help if you need any!

Agnete

[DelSaunders]

Hi,
According to the church book of Feldsted, Ann Kierstin was born Jan. 23. 1803 in Feldsted(page 204) and she died April 13. 1803 from whooping cough and she was buried April 17. 1803(page310).

Her parents were Nicolai Nielsen and Cathrin Dorthe Nielsen born Martin.
There seem to have been an epidemic of this still very dangerous disease for small children.

If you want to see the church records yourself you can visit http://www.sa.dk
It's free of charge. There is an introduction in English, but do ask for help if you need any!

Agnete

Hi there,

Thank you, that rules out that Ann Kerstin as mine, however  the later census record is  still a possibility.

Cheers
Del

[DelSaunders]

Hi to all my lovely helpers

I have found a record on the igi, which may match the baptism info, but I dtart to get confused when I spot lots of people with the same names, its very hard getting use to the naming patterns. I would appreciate some feedback please

Denmark, Marriages, 1635-1916

groom's name: Jürgen Nielsen
bride's name: Anne Lena Sörensen
marriage date: 08 Oct 1837
marriage place: Holbøl, Åbenrå, Denmark
groom's father's name: Hans Nielsen
groom's mother's name: Maren Jürgensen
bride's father's name: Hans Sörensen
bride's mother's name: Metta Maria August



Also what is the difference in these surnames  Jurgensdr & Jorgensen, Jorgensdatter

Cheers
Del

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Jügen is the German spelling of the name Jo/rgen. Sen means son of and datter means daughter of.
This is callled patronyms, a system we had in Scandinavia in the 19th century. Denmark dropped this system earlier than the other Scandinavian countries.

Eva M

[John Wrenholt]

Using this census data from 1845, I located Jurgen's birthrecord at : AO: 1763-1884 Kværs ops 137

Aabenraa, Lundtoft, Holbøl, Dorf Holebüll, , Instengebäude, 19a, FT-1845
Jürgen Nielsen 37  Gift  Häuerling u Tagelöhner Quars
Anna Helena Sørensen 38  Gift  seine Ehefrau Handewitt
Hans Peter Nielsen 7  Ugift  ihr Sohn Holebüll
Metta August 76  Enke  Der Frau Mutter lebt durch Unterstützung Ulderup

The couple's marriage record is AO: 1827-1850 Holbøl ops 188.

[DelSaunders]

Using this census data from 1845, I located Jurgen's birthrecord at : AO: 1763-1884 Kværs ops 137

Aabenraa, Lundtoft, Holbøl, Dorf Holebüll, , Instengebäude, 19a, FT-1845
Jürgen Nielsen 37  Gift  Häuerling u Tagelöhner Quars
Anna Helena Sørensen 38  Gift  seine Ehefrau Handewitt
Hans Peter Nielsen 7  Ugift  ihr Sohn Holebüll
Metta August 76  Enke  Der Frau Mutter lebt durch Unterstützung Ulderup

The couple's marriage record is AO: 1827-1850 Holbøl ops 188.

Hello, and Thank you,

This information could tie in with another record or records that Ive found , especially if Anne Christene was born c1803 . Do you think this all looks likely?

Denmark, Baptisms, 1618-1923

name:Anna Nielsen

gender:Female

baptism/christening date:05 Sep 1803

baptism/christening place: OSTER LOGUM, AABENRAA-SONDERBORG, DENMARK

father's name:Hans Nielsen

mother's name:Maren Jurgensdr


They also appear to have had another daughter: Kjestine Nielsen Bpt: 11 Mar 1810, OSTER LOGUM, AABENRAA-SONDERBORG, DENMARK


Cheers Del

[John Wrenholt]

Aabenraa, Sønder Rangstrup, Øster Løgum, Dorf Osterlygum, , einer von den Hufen Ahnholm, 73, FT-1803
Hans Nielsen 29  Gift Hausvater Hufner 
Maren Jürgens 27  Gift Dessen Frau   
Niels Nielsen 3   Ihre Kinder   
Tornille Nielsen 1   Ihre Kinder   
Hans Knudsen 36  Ugift dienstmädchen   
Kiestina Andersens 23  Ugift dienstmädchen


The birth record for Anna is 1776-1845 Øster Løgum ops 79. 

Also I looked up the birth record of Hans Peter Nielsen (the son of Jürgen Nielsen). It is 1827-1850 Holbøl ops 73. The 2nd listed sponsor looks like it is Anne Christine ????. I can't make out the last name.

[Lise Østerberg Bahr]

Hi.

Hans  Knudsen - could not be = a dienstMädchen - because a (ein) Mädchen is a GIRL.

Did you miss 1 person ?

Regards
Lise Østerberg Bahr

[Eva Morfiadakis]

It says "dienstmädchen" in the transcript. Maybe Hans should be be Hansine or Hanne?

Eva M

[Inger Buchard]

Dienstmädchen may also be misread for Dientknecht

Inger

[DelSaunders]

Hello,

Have found another record which could tie in with the 1845 cenus record.I dont seem to be having any luck using the archive searches. Family search record below, Is there anyway I can cross check this or find out more? If it is the same person, the son Jen's would have been very young when she died, what would have become of him if the father was also deceased ?


Denmark Burials, 1640-1917

Marcus Olsen in entry for Anne Christine Olsen, 1798


name: Anne Christine Olsen
gender: Female
death date: 11 Aug 1846
death place:  Møgeltønder, Tønder, Denmark
age: 48
birth date:  1798
marital status: Married
spouse's name: Marcus Olsen
indexing project (batch) number: I01510-4
system origin: Denmark-EASy
source film number: 53320


Cheers
Del

[DelSaunders]

Hello,

I have also been looking at the names of Frederick's children here n New Zealand, this info may be of some help.

First born son named: William Mark Ohlson  ( after wifes father William and Frederick's father Marcus?)

Second born: Frederick Edward Ohlson ( after father Frederick and wifes brother Edward? died as infant)

Third born: Frederick John Ohlson ( after Father Frederick and perhaps fathers brother? no John in wife's direct line, apart from sisters husband)

Fourth born: born Annie Catherine Ohlson buried as Anne Charlotte, died as infant ( Annie after Fredericks mother, Charlotte after mother's mother Charlotte?-died as infant, no clue where the Catherine may have come from.

There is meant to be another son Marcus, so far records found n NZ to this name have not married up so is unconfirmed as yet.

Cheers
Del

[John Wrenholt]

The death record can be found in AO: 1825-1859, Møgeltønder, Lø, Tønder ops 398 no. 20.

In the same church book on ops 251, I find the confirmation record for a

Michel Diedrich Ohlsen

The confirmation record is interesting but I'll let one of the Danes translate it.

[John Wrenholt]

I would guess that this is Jens Ohlsen in the 1850 census, still living in a "poor" house.

Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Slotgaden, , , 63, en Gaard, F, FT-1850
Mathias Ebsen 11  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Christian Friedrichsen 10  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Jens Olesen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Johannes Jørgensen 9  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Hans Lorentsen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Niels Nielsen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet

[DelSaunders]

I would guess that this is Jens Ohlsen in the 1850 census, still living in a "poor" house.

Tønder, Tønder, Højer og Lø, Møgeltønder (Kongerigsk), Slotgaden, , , 63, en Gaard, F, FT-1850
Mathias Ebsen 11  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Christian Friedrichsen 10  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Jens Olesen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Johannes Jørgensen 9  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Hans Lorentsen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet
Niels Nielsen 8  Ugift  Fattiglemmer I Sognet

Thank you John,

How very sad for Jens, would the poor farm be similar to the British poor/work houses?   wonder what happened to Frederick, (if the same one)  there is the following NZ record for him but it says very little.

Name OHLSON, F
Vessel Notes In 1886 the Addresses (or acknowledgement) to Sir George Grey list this person as arriving in 1855 from Sydney.
Source Addresses to Sir George Grey, K.C.B. by the European and Maori residents in the province of Auckland on his seventy-fourth birthday, April 14th, 1886 (Microfiche) Addresses to Sir George Grey GNZ MSS 275, p 193

Would Frederick have been trained as a sailor while in the poor farm? he shows as being a ships Master very early in records, this is a later record but may  hold a clue.

Return of Masters, Mates and Engineers, to whom certificates of compency have been granted under "The  Merchant Ships Officers Examination Act , 1870" during the finacial year 1873-1874

Frederick Ohlson *
Rank - Master
Class of Certificate - Foreign Trade

* ( Issued under the provisions  of her Majestys Order in council of 9th August 1872, and have the same force as similar certificates granted by the board of Trade in the United Kingdom.)

Cheers
Del

[DelSaunders]

The death record can be found in AO: 1825-1859, Møgeltønder, Lø, Tønder ops 398 no. 20.

In the same church book on ops 251, I find the confirmation record for a

Michel Diedrich Ohlsen

The confirmation record is interesting but I'll let one of the Danes translate it.

Thank you, I located the record, does it tanslate the same as the record I found, curious on what this says after " Marcus Oleson" Is it another Name?

Cheers
Del

[John Wrenholt]

The confirmation records give the date of birth as Feb 15, 1832. Does this match up with any records that you have for Frederick?

[DelSaunders]

The confirmation records give the date of birth as Feb 15, 1832. Does this match up with any records that you have for Frederick?

Hi John,

YES it very well could, all we have on any record here s born c1832 or 1832. Flensburg,( he even named his home here Flensburg.)

Is there any further translation? also on the death record?

Cheers
Del

[DelSaunders]

The death record can be found in AO: 1825-1859, Møgeltønder, Lø, Tønder ops 398 no. 20.

In the same church book on ops 251, I find the confirmation record for a

Michel Diedrich Ohlsen

The confirmation record is interesting but I'll let one of the Danes translate it.

Hi Del.

I read:

First transcribed:
Navn og bopæl:
Michel Dietrich Ohlsen
Møgeltønder Fattighuus

Forældres navn og bopæl:
Moderen ugift Fruentimmer Anna Christina
Larsen i Flensburg, og udlagt Fader Marius
Ohlsen i ...........

Født og døbt:
Født i Flensburg d. 15de Februar
og døbt d. 26de Februar 1832
efter udvist Daabsattest af Pastor
Valentiner af 12te Februar 1846.

Karakterer kundskab og opførsel:
mg – mg

Vaccineret:
den 22de Juni 1838 af Chirurg
Valentiner i Flensburg

Translated:
Name and place:
Michel Dietrich Ohlsen
Møgeltønder poorhouse

Parents name and place:
Mother unmarried woman/harlot Anna Christina
Larsen in Flensburg, and designated father Marius
Ohlsen in (can't read the place)

Born and baptized:
Born in Flensburg on Februar 15th
and baptized on Februar 26th 1832
according to birth certificate by Pastor
Valentiner on Februar 12th1846.

Rating in knowledge and behavior:
mg – mg (in a scale from best: ug, ug?, mg+, mg, mg?, g+, g, g?, tg+, tg, tg?, mdl+, mdl, mdl?, slet)

Vaccinated:
On June 22nd 1838 by surgeon
Valentiner in Flensburg

Regards
Jens