Need help reading town

[Lissa Pedersen]

I found Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen mentioned in the Copenhagen probate registry - but - you will have to order the probate by writing on the National archives Daisy ordering system on the internet and then go to the National Archives and see it. Could be that this probate would tell about Hans Christian's birth place.

Found it under "Andre Arkivalier" = other records (Arkivalieronline) and then "Københavnske Skiftearkivalier" = Copenhagen probate records - and then in the first box choose "Københavns Skiftekommission indtil (until) 1919" - then "Navneregister: Hovedregister" - go to 1897 and click "Vælg" = choose and his name is on image 116 giving some numbers and a letter being the reference, when you order - but - you will have to do it in a special way, and a person on this forum has explained it to me.

I don't have time right now to order the probate and go there, but perhaps later .... one will have to wait 3 days to get an ordered record.

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

Jane, you just find Den Kgl. Fødselsstiftelse as a parish under Copenhagen county on Arkivalieronline, but you will have to go through it page by page - no easy way to do it, if that's what you mean!?

You will find the children and the mothers having numbers, and if the record doesn't give much info, you will then have to go to the National Archives and look up those numbers in 2 different books and perhaps find more info. These books are in a separate room where you go through them and they need not be ordered. Some people are willing to do look-ups, when they are at the National Archives.

Lissa

[Lissa Pedersen]

Frandsine's probate reference can be found in 1900 - same procedure as mentioned earlier - on image 117 - No. 4 on the page - the ref. No. is 2/1163 1 K.

Lissa

[Homer Ficken]

Edward A. Barfred, sea captain and seaman USN, was born in Denmark about 1838. Could be a brother to Thora's husband. I had seen him but haven't searched for the connection, if any...

In this link, "FRAN" means he is listed in the 1890 San Francisco Great Register of Voters.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/cgs/names/namesba.htm

Sea Captains
http://www.maritimeheritage.org/captains.htm

Find-a-Grave has only his death date.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Barfred&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=6&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=3520140&df=all&

Find A Grave has his death year wrong, although it states their info came from V.A.   He's in the 1896 S.F. Voters Register and 1897-98 S.F. City Directories, and died 11 May 1902:

U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006
about Edward A Barfred Name: Edward A Barfred
Service Info.: SN US Navy
Death Date: 11 May 1902
Interment Date: 20 May 1902
Cemetery: San Francisco National Cemetery
Cemetery Address: 1 Lincoln Blvd., Presidio of S.F. Presidio of San Francisco San Francisco , CA 94129
Buried At: Section Na Site 909

And the V.A. National Gravsite Locator has him mislisted as Edward A. Barfield!

BARFIELD, EDWARD A   
SN   US NAVY 
SPANISH AMERICAN WAR 
DATE OF DEATH: 05/11/1902 
BURIED AT: SECTION NA  SITE 909   
SAN FRANCISCO NATIONAL CEMETERY 

[Jane C]

HI! Lissa Pedersen . . .Do you have a link to Den kongelige Fødselsstiftelse?  Does it have a searchable database?  That's a resource that I haven't known about.  I did a quick search and see that it started in 1750?  I have been doing research in Helligånd and Holmen parishes after 1750, so if there are records I can search, I'll be very happy!  It might help me find some of my dead ends.

Thank you!

Thanks Lissa, but at the same time I was confused by your note to me. I guess you are referring to this question by Carol? In any case, your patience in explaining research tools is very much appreciated by everyone.

Thanks Homer. He was a bit old to serve in the Spanish American War, wasn't he? Still, a captain of a ship might be older....


Did you spot any of Thora's siblings in the San Francisco Bay Area?

[Carol Haagensen]

Hi! Jane Christiansen . . .

Thanks for the gracious response to me and to these fabulous researchers. I also appreciate your sharing more about the family - very interesting, and others who search for information about them at some future date will be lucky to find here the details you have painstakingly gathered.

Thank YOU for your kind words and help!  When I first started research, it was the clues and information that others sent me and that I found online that really pointed me in the right direction.  I'm sure that I've always gotten much more than I've been able to give.  It's my hope that anyone researching this family is helped; and of course, they can contact me if they'd like more.

I find it quite remarkable that your adventurous family had journeyed to the Caribbean at such an early date! I hope you've enjoyed a stay at "Haagensen House" - or will.

It is remarkable to me, too.  This was a time when there wasn't easy traveling.  Yet, within two to three generations, this family traveled from Bornholm, to Copenhagen, to the danish west indies, to Roskilde and America, and probably more that I haven't found yet.  Given the time in history, it is really interesting, I agree.

I can't go back now to edit the summary with some additional changes I would make, so we'll let it stand as it was posted. I prepared the summary a short while ago: it reflects your work, and that of the others here, and thus you couldn't have found it earlier!


LOL!  That happens to me, too.  I find something, but it turns out that it's my own research!  It's a good summary, thank you for doing that!

hilsen,
Carol

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi Jane,

Sorry for the mistake .. too late in the night. My reply was of course meant for Carol.

Lissa

[Jane C]

Sweet note Carol!

Lissa, after all the kind help you give, you owe no one any apologies!

[Carol Haagensen]

Lissa Pedersen . . .
Thank you for finding the Hansen names in the probate index!  I didn't even realize probate registry was at the Arkivalieronline!  Your instructions led me right to the page. 

In this thread, you all have given me several new sources that I didn't know were there!  In the future, I'll have new places to search.

Homer Ficken . . . It is very fun for me to see some of the descendants in California.  During this thread, you all have given me a couple more parishes to search, new resources, and ideas.  Please know that I will follow up on the Barfred surname in USA to find any links that may exist to this family.  Thank you!

If I have neglected to thank anyone for your help, please know that I do appreciate the help very much.  I'm still trying to enter the new information into my database with citations, and all you have given me will keep me busy for the next few weeks! 

It is especially kind for you all to post in English!  I am so proud to be danish!

Carol

[Jane C]

Here they are in 1880:

København, København (Staden), Strandgade, Strandgade 7, De Forenede Dampmøller i København, 133 az, , 27, FT-1880
Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen 57  Gift Husfader Forvalter København
Fransine Kristine Hansen 53  Gift Hans Hustru  Køge
Frantz Haagensen Hansen 22  Ugift Deres Søn Kommis Randers
Anna Margrethe Hansen 19  Ugift Deres Datter  Randers
Ida Mathilde Hansen 18  Ugift Deres Datter  København
Ellen Marie Børresen 26  Ugift  Tjenestepige Tikøb Sogn, Frederiksborg Amt

They must have been in Randers after they left Køge.  You can find the birth record of their son Frantz in:  AO: 1850-1858, Randers Skt Morten, Støvring, Randers ops 173.

Just back to say that birth record for this Ida calls her Ida Nathalia, like her aunt. I thought the two first+middle names should be the same!

København, København (Staden), Sankt Johannes, 1861 - 1869, Dåb (AO Opslag 8)
Ida Nathalia Hansen b. 11 September 1861, baptised 20 October 1861
father Hans Chr. Vilhelm Hansen, Kjøbmand
mother Franzine Christine f. Knuthsen
at Blaagaardsgade 49
Faddere:
Anna Margrethe Knuthsen of Kjøge
A. Marie Hansen
Edvard Thostrup, Kjøbmand (Ida's husband), Kjøge
...Barfoed, Boghandler, Kjøbenhavn (Thora's husband)

[Carol Haagensen]

HI!
Yes, I have the 1880 census now.  Thanks to this wonderful forum and all of you who have helped!  I've been going through the parish records today.  Frandsine was married in 1854, but her first child, Frantz Haagensen Hansen, wasn't born until 1857.   Ane Margrethe Hansen born in 1860 and right away, Ida Nathalia (Mathilde) Hansen was born in 1861.  Because of the spacing, I wondering if there might be another child.  But, after searching through births and death records in Randers, I found no other children up until they moved to Copenhagen.  Now, I'm going through the Skt. Johannes parish registers for anything else that might be there.  I was very excited to see the grandmother, Ane Margrethe Knuthsen attending the christening of Ida Nathalia (Mahilde) Hansen.  That's the latest date I have on her.  So, I'll be checking these parish registers very closely for other relatives who might be living near.  Thank you, again! 

[Jane C]

You are on a roll!

About the 1880 census in the blue box: it's a citation of John's earlier post - so yes I knew it had been found. I "cited" it.

I noticed on the 1860 census in Køge for Peter Julius Haagensen and Emilie Eliza Knuthsen that they have a foster child living with them - Julius Arent Emil "Thonstrup" age 9, born in Køge, foster child.

In 1855 he is Julius Thoustrup age 4.

A Julius A. E. Thoustrup born abt 1850 is found in San Diego; died 1914 and buried in Mount Hope Cemetery, San Diego, San Diego, California. Also Carrie Thoustrup b abt 1855 died 1905.
From the California Tombstone Project: http://files.usgwarchives.net/ca/sandiego/cemeteries/mthope-t.txt

And a Google "hit" for Julius Arendt Emil Thoustrup in San Diego on a webpage called "A New Lodge Is Formed" (Centennial history of "La Mesa Lodge" of the Masons).

BTW I'm American, as are some of the others. 

[Carol Haagensen]

HI, Jane!
Thanks for the Julius Thoustrup references.  I'd guess that Carrie was probably his wife.  I also found Cora Thoustrup on findagrave.com  The inscription says that she is the only child of William Thoustrup.  I believe that is Julius' brother.  The internet link was fun; it shows Julius being a Master Mason for helping to start a new lodge in San Diego.  I'm not going to go any farther on the Thoustrup line, though, because it's getting pretty far away from my direct line, the Haagensen's.

Last evening, I tried to find the confirmation records of Frandsine Knuthsen Hansen's children: Frantz, Anna Margrethe, and Ida.  I was using a paper I downloaded from Staten Archiver that has the parishes in Copenhagen listed by the street.  Using Strandgade from the 1880 census, and also Ryesgade from the Denmark Københavns Politietsregisterblade, and death records, it shows that they should have been in Skt. Johannes Sogn or Von Frelser Sogn.  I checked both, but no confirmation records.  ???

So I don't know if they lived somewhere else earlier about 1875, or if I'm looking in the wrong parish.  But, their death records were in Skt. Johannes.

I consulted another paper from Statens Archiver for Danmarks Kirkebøger for Skt Johannes, and it says that this parish was form in 1861 from two other parishes.  So, I'm kinda lost trying to figure out if I should be searching another parish, or if they aren't there?  Any ideas?

[Jane C]

You wrote:

"I tried to find the confirmation records of Frandsine Knuthsen Hansen's children: Frantz, Anna Margrethe, and Ida....They should have been in Skt. Johannes Sogn or Von Frelser Sogn.  I checked both, but no confirmation records....I'm kinda lost....Any ideas?"

No - but I'm sure one of the others will know how to help!

About the Thoustrups - yes I see what you mean. We were hunting for the more recent dates in a family of Knuthsen children, but for you, really, it's the Haagensen connection that is closest.