Anna Marie & Carrie Christine Larsen

[R N]

I'm back.  I took a few months off from this branch of the tree and now I am back to dig in again....here is what I have so far.  Could someone please help me find this family?  Thanks!

Anna Marie Larson/Larsen, born 13 March 1859 per obituary; 1859 per headstone.  Married Martin/Morten Peterson/Pedersen in 1888 in Baileys Harbor, WI.  Arrived in 1884, came through Racine, WI.  Possibly married to a Søren Thomsen/Thorsen in Racine, had a son Waldemar/Peter, born in Racine, with previously mentioned Thomsen/Thorsen (or maybe married in Denmark and came with spouse?).  Local church record says she was born in Flindrup (maybe Finderup?).  Obit says she was born in Copenhagen.  Marriage record says Syeland.  Parents were Peter Larson and Sophie Sorenson, also from marriage record.  Have not been able to locate her death record yet, but most likely wouldn't be of much help anyway.   

Anna Marie's sister:  Carrie Christine Larson/Larsen, born 2 January 1866 per family website and obituary; 1866 per headstone.  Married Robert/Rasmus Petersen/Pedersen in 1890 in Baileys Harbor, WI.  Arrived in 1889 on the Danmark.  Local church record says she was born in Flindrup also.  Marriage record states she was born in Slagelse.  Parents Peter Larson and Sophia Sorenson. 

I'm pretty sure I found both of their emigration info, and possibly one census, but I'm not positive.  Anna Marie's mother's name is listed as Johanne, though, instead of Sophie.  And I think they live with Anna Marie's maternal grandparents - does that sound right?

Name:    Larsen, Ane M.   Occupation:    Tyende (m/k land)
Age:    25   Destination:    Racine, Wisconsin
Contract no.:    19400   Registration date:    2/26/1884
Last res. parish:    Holbæk   Last res. county:    Holbæk
Last residence:    Tostrup, Holbæk   Destination country:    USA
Destination city:    Racine   Destination state:    Wisconsin
Name of ship:    Indirekte
IDcode:    I8284L2402

Name:    Larsen, Karen Kirstine   Occupation:    Jomfru
Age:    23   Destination:    Racine, Wisc.
Contract no.:    28500   Registration date:    3/13/1889
Birth place:    ?   Birth place:    ?
Last res. parish:    København   Last res. county:    København
Last residence:    Kbhvn.   Destination country:    USA
Destination city:    Racine   Destination state:    Wisconsin
Name of ship:    Denmark
IDcode:    D8789L2408


Aalborg, Fleskum, Volsted, Volsted Bye, , et huus, 2, FT-1860
________________________________________
Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Occupation in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Søren Pedersen   57    Gift   huusmand      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Maren Sørensdatter   56    Gift   hans kone      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Inger Marie Sørensen   20    Ugift   Deres datter, sypige      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Ane Marie Knudsen   21    Ugift   sypige      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Peder Larsen   28    Gift   huusfaderens svigersøn      Gunnerup Sogn, Aalborg Amt
Johanne Sørensen   28    Gift   hans kone      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Ane Marie Larsen   1    Ugift   Deres datter      Født i Sognet [Volsted]
Christine Dorthea Christensen   11    Ugift   huusfaderens pleiebarn      Født i Sognet [Volsted]

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!  Thank you!

[John Wrenholt]

from this website:

http://www.greenwoodsupperclub.net/ramus_and_carrie.html

(Carrie) Christine Marie Larsen Peterson

Christine Marie Larsen was born January 2. 1866 in Sjaelland, Denmark to Peter Larsen and Sophia (Sorensen) Larsen and immigrated to the United States in 1899. For several years Christine worked in Denmark in a clothing factory as a seamstress and it was considered a well paying job. Still her sister convinced her to come to America. Upon arrival, she was surprised to find how uncivilized Door County was. Her sister didn't tell her about the Native Americans who lived there. It was then when she questioned why she left Denmark.

Before boarding the ship "Danmark" to the new world Christine was given an unusual prediction. A fortuneteller said an eventful journey was in her near future that she must not take. Christine was unshaken by this warning. She packed all her possessions and started out to make a new life with her sister and brother-in-law, Mr. & Mrs. Martin Petersen, who were living on a farm in Baileys Harbor, WI. But, before the "Danmark" reached its destination, disaster struck. The ship sank, along with all of Christine's possessions. Fortunately an English steamer named the "Missouri" was passing nearby and rescued the ships passengers. This occurrence remains one of the least-known great sea rescues of all time.

A year later in 1890 in Baileys Harbor, WI, Christine married (Ramus) Robert Peterson, brother of Martin her brother-in-law. She became the mother of five children; Harry, William, Louis, Robert, and Eva. Christine passed away August 3, 1933.

[John Wrenholt]

Could this be the family in the 1860 census?

Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Kirke Flinterup Skoledistrikt, Kirke Flinterup, , Et Hus, 19 - F2, FT-1860
Peder Larsen 26  Gift Inderste. Daglejer  Gyrstinge Sogn, Sorø Amt
Karen Sophie Sørensen 29  Gift Hans Kone  Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt
Hans Peter Larsen 4  Ugift Deres Barn  Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt
Ane Marie Larsen 2  Ugift Deres Barn  Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt


I find a birth record for Ane Marie Larsen in:

AO: 1836-1860 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Sorø ops 192 (first on the page dated Mar 13, 1858)

and there is a Karen Kristine Larsen in

AO: 1861-1889 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Sorø ops 59 (first on the page dated Dec 20, 1865)

[Jane C]

http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,22282.30.html

Above is a link to Robin's previous thread re. this family - mostly focused on the brothers that the Larsen sisters married. Page 1 of the thread has the greenwood supperclub link.

John, when was the Karen Kristine you found baptised? Robin gives 02 January 1866 as the USA record of her birth but could be a baptismal date.

Of course also there's a difference of one year in the birth dates (the sisters in Denmark vs. the sisters in Wisconsin) - but I have seen that happen before, when the link between a US obituary and a Danish birth record is a solid, known connection, so the Danish record has to be right and the US obituary has to be wrong. Not sure whythis happens. My theory is that people (survivors writing obituaries, etc.) get confused about how to count back to a birth year from the age the person is.

[Jane C]

Re. place names:

Anna Maria's sister Carrie Christine gives her place of birth as Slagelse on her marriage record. Slagelse is a town on the island of Sjælland.

Anna Maria's marriage record gives her place of birth as Syeland. From other US records for this family, we can see that the Danish place names get mangled, so it's easy to imagine that Syeland = Sjaelland.

Sorø amt is on the island of Sjælland. Slagelse is a big town in Sorø amt. Sometimes an immigrant gives the biggest town in the area as a place of origin, rather than the more accurate but less recognizable name of a smaller place.

Local church in Wisconsin gives birth place for both sisters as Flindrup. John found a town of Flinterup in Alsted herred in Sorø amt on the island of Sjaelland.

The reason I'm spelling this out, Robin, is that you've proposed a census record from Aalborg amt, which is in northern Jutland. I'm not sure why. I think John has the right geography.

**************
Re. parents names:

Anna Maria and Carrie Christine's parents are named in their US records as Peter Larson and Sophia Sorenson. Danish names would normally be Larsen and Sorensen.

It is very common for a first name to be honorary (after a grandparent etc.) and a middle name to be used as the name by which a person is called. This is true for both my parents and tons of other examples. John found a mother named Karen Sophie Sorensen, and it would be normal for her to be called Sophie.

You probably know this! It's an important point in assessing what John found - which looks so much like it can be the right people!



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Jane C]

This Ane Marie Larsen, age 21, fits with the immigration record Robin posted. Her last residence was Tostrup, Holbæk; she was bound for Racine, Wisconsin. This record ties that Ane Marie to the family John found.   

1880
Holbæk, Merløse, Store Taastrup, Søtofte Bye, Tostrup sogn, en gaard, 3, FT-1880, B0312
Jens Poulsen 29 Gift husfader, gaardeier her i sognet [Tostrup]
Karen Marie Poulsen født Nielsen 24 Gift hans hustru Haraldsted sogn, Sorø Amt
Ane Johanne Pouline Poulsen 1 Ugift deres barn her i sognet [Tostrup]
Johanne Poulsen født Jensen 60 Enke(mand) husfaderens moder, der af ham forsørges her i sognet [Tostrup]
Hans Christian Sørensen 24 Ugift tjennestefolk Sigersted sogn, Sorø Amt
Hans Peder Andersen 15 Ugift tjennestefolk her i sognet [Tostrup]
Ane Marie Larsen 21 Ugift tjennestefolk (servant) Flinterup sogn, Sorø Amt  

More records for the family John found, I think:
1880
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Ødemark, et Hus, 7, FT-1880, C8990
Peter Larsen 45  Gift Husfader, Husfæster, Dagleier i Agerbruget  Gyrstinge, Sorø Amt
Karen Soie Larsen f. Sørensen 48  Gift hans Hustru  Her i Sognet
Jens Peter Larsen 8  Ugift hans Barn  Her i Sognet
Ane Sofie Frederikke Larsen 3  Ugift hans Barn  Gyrstinge, Sorø Amt

This could be Peter in 1845:
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge, Et Huus, 5 [F2], FT-1845, C0294
Lars Pedersen 42  Gift  Hmd Dagleier Fjennesløv S Sorøe Amt
Anne Jensdatter 47  Gift  hans Kone Jydstrup S Sorøe Amt
Sidse Larsen 16  Ugift  deres Børn Flinterup S Sorøe Amt
Hans Larsen 14  Ugift  deres Børn Do [Flinterup S] Do [Sorøe Amt]
Peder Larsen  11  Ugift  deres Børn Her i Sognet [Gyrstinge]
Karen Larsen 5  Ugift  deres Børn Do [Her i Sognet] [Gyrstinge]

Maybe this is Peter's wife Karen Sophie in 1834:
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Flinterup, Hus, 14, FT-1834, C6969
Søren Christensen 34  Gift  husmand og daglejer  
Ane Hansdatter 35  Gift  hans kone  
Karen Pedersdatter 14  Ugift  plejebarn i barns sted  
Sophie Sørensdatter  3  Ugift  deres barn  
Katrine Sørensdatter 7  Ugift  deres barn  
Søren Hansen 58  Gift  Inderste og daglejer  
Maren Jensdatter 71  Gift  hans kone

[John Wrenholt]

Jane, thank you for making the case on why I thought I might have found the right family.  The 1880 census showing Ane Marie in Holbæk certainly makes a strong case.

I wonder if this might be the other sister in 1880?

Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge Sogn, , Et Hus, 7, FT-1880
Lars Jensen 39  Gift Husfader Snedker  Bringstrup Sogn Sorø Amt
Karen Petersen 36  Gift Husmoder  Bjernede Sogn Sorø Amt
Ane Kirstine Larsen 11  Ugift Barn  Bjernede Sogn Sorø Amt
Karen Sofie Jensen 6  Ugift Barn  Bjernede Sogn Sorø Amt
Jens Peter Jensen 1  Ugift Barn  her i Sognet
Ane Petersen 72  Enke opholdes af Lars Jensen Snedker  Glim Sogn Roskilde Amt
Maren Petersen 65  Enke Huusfæster med Fattigforsørgelse  Valsølille Sogn Sorø Amt
Carl Frederik Petersen 13  Ugift Barn  Gyrstinge
Johan Peter Mathiesen 75  Gift Husfader og Husejer   
Ana Magrethe Mathiesen 72  Gift hans Hustru  Bringstrup
Henrik Mathiesen 33  Ugift Søn og Tømmersvend  Gyrstinge
Karen Kirstine Larsen 14  Ugift tjenestepige  Gyrstinge

[Jane C]

Yes, I do think you found the right family John! The evidence is strong.

I wish I knew how to navigate the archives. Arggh. Can you find a confirmation record for the Karen Kirstine you found? Could be "Robin's" Carrie Christine.

From the parents' census in 1880, it seems the family was living in Peter Larsen's home parish of Gyrstinge in about 1877 (Ane Sofie Frederikke Larsen, age 3 in 1880, was born in Gyrstinge, Sorø Amt).  Karen Kirstine Larsen could be living there with them, get a job, and stay in Gyrstinge sogn after her parents moved back to Flinterup sogn. Many young people of about 14 were "working out" away from home, so it's a very plausible scenario.

The birth place for the Karen Kirstine in Gyrstinge is wrong for "our" Karen Kirstine. But she's of confirmation age, and her confirmation record might shed some light on that discrepancy.

[John Wrenholt]

Note that during this time period the Gyrstinge Sogn and Kirke Flinterup Sogn shared a churchbook. So it would be easy to confuse the two.

Ane Marie Larsen's confirmation can be found:

AO: 1836-1889 Gyrstinge-Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Sorø ops 177.

I have yet to locate Karen Kirstine's confirmation.

The marriage of Peder Larsen and Karen Sophie Sørensen can be found:

AO: 1836-1889 Gyrstinge-Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Sorø ops 246.

[Jane C]

Note that during this time period the Gyrstinge Sogn and Kirke Flinterup Sogn shared a churchbook. So it would be easy to confuse the two.

Okay, sure! That could explain why 14-year-old Karen Kirstine Larsen born in Gyrstinge Sogn per 1880 census can be the same girl you found born in Kirke Flinterup.

[John Wrenholt]

Ane Marie Larsen
Wisconsin, Marriages, 1836-1930
birth:  Denmark
marriage: 14 Feb 1885 Racine,​ Wisconsin
parents: Peter Larsen,​ Karen Sophia Sorensen
spouse: Soren Thorsen

 
groom's name: Soren Thorsen
groom's birthplace: Denmark, Europe
bride's name: Ane Marie Larsen
bride's birthplace: Denmark
marriage date: 14 Feb 1885
marriage place: Racine, Wisconsin
groom's father's name: Thomas Jensen
groom's mother's name: Maren Sorenson
bride's father's name: Peter Larsen
bride's mother's name: Karen Sophia Sorensen

[Jane C]

Wow - so Ane Marie Larsen's mother's full name WAS Karen Sophie Sorensen! More strong evidence supporting the family in Flinterup, Alsted, Sorø, Denmark as the birth family for Anna Larsen Petersen and Carrie Christine Larsen Petersen of Bailey's Harbor, Door County, Wisconsin. You're on a roll, John.

[R N]

......WOW.  It's going to take me a week to digest all of this info!  THANK YOU!  You guys  are amazing. 

I always forget about familysearch.org to look up records.  I was waiting for my cousin in Madison to go to the History Center/Vital Records place there to look up that marriage record for me (the one John found), as I had found it in the genealogy index (but it doesn't list parent's names or anything).  Huh.  So that means she must have been pregnant when she married him, since her son was born on 1 March 1885.  Naughty naughty...

"The reason I'm spelling this out, Robin, is that you've proposed a census record from Aalborg amt, which is in northern Jutland. I'm not sure why. I think John has the right geography." 
Yeah, I was just trying to find anything that might fit.    I haven't worked on this branch for quite some time, so I'm working on getting back into the Danish swing of things.  Next on the agenda - refreshing myself on how to work the church records.  Ugh. 

Thanks again, and please let me know if you find anything more!!  Just curious, but how far back are people generally able to go with their Danish ancestry?

[Jane C]

Hi Robin - Thanks for the cheer! I'm not working on this but am checking back to see if John found any more "goodies."

A typical Danish family history might dribble out in the first half of the 1700s and end in the mid-1600s. Peter Larsen is a "daglejer" (day-laborer) in the 1860 census - this looks like a typical (not wealthy, noble, or highly educated) family.

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Even with a year's discrepancy in his age, it looks like the father of Ane Marie Larsen, Peder Larsen is born January 18, 1835 at Gyrstinge to Lars Pedersen and Anne Jensdatter (1826-1836, opslag 48). He is the only Peder Larsen baptized in Gyrstinge 1833-1836.

Peder Larsen's parents were married in 1828 (1826-1836, opslag 176, #24).  Neither of them can clearly be traced back through the Gyrstinge confirmations.

They are here:
Soroe, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Ørslevvester by, et hus, 47, FT-1834, C6970
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Pedersen 29  Gift  husmand 
Ane Jensdatter 34  Gift  hans kone 
Sidse Larsdatter 5  Ugift  deres barn 
Hans Larsen 3  Ugift  deres barn

'Med venlig hilsen'
-Ralph

[R N]

I think I found Ane Marie's older brother, Hans Peder - AO:  1836-1880 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro ops 90 top entry.  Does that look right?

In regards to the marriage records - they don't list the parents??  Ugh.  How do you go about proving who their parents are then?  For Peder and Sophie's marriage - is the date 17 Feb 1856?  I'm a little confused about the year (1855 or 1856).  If it was 1856, then she, too, was pregnant when she got married.  Didn't realize it was such a common occurence back then.  What are the numbers/words directly above their names?

Ralph - Thanks! 

[R N]

I think I've found a some birth records for some of my ancestors and their siblings, but I am having difficulty with a couple of the females.  Here is what I have and also what I am having difficulty finding: 

Children of Peder Larsen & Sophie Sørensen
-Hans Peder Larsen, mentioned in previous post

-Jens Peder Larsen, born 20 March 1871, AO:  1861-1889 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 17, 3rd from bottom

-Ane Sofie Frederikke Larsen - having difficulty finding, born abt 1877 in Gyrstinge

Children of Lars Pedersen & Ane Jensdatter (siblings of Peder Larsen)
-Hans Larsen, born 5 September 1831, AO:  1826-1836 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 29

-Sidse Larsdatter, born 28 March 1829, 1826-1836 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 63

-Karen Larsen, having difficulty finding, born abt 1840 in Gyrstinge

Children of Søren Christiansen & Ane Hansdatter
-Karen Sophie Sørensen, born 14 November 1831, AO:  1826-1836 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 76

-Christian Sørensen, born 3 September 1838, AO: 1836-1860 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 13, #9

-Peder Sørensen, born 7 March 1842, AO:  1836-1860 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 27, #8-9 (they were twins, both named Peder, and one died?)

-Katrine Sørensdatter, having difficulty finding, born about 1827, no birthplace given on 1834 census

-Karen Pedersdatter, is she a foster child?  They maybe took in a niece or something?  (she lived with them according to 1834 census)

And ONE more thing - why are confirmation records important?  What kind of info can you get from them?  Is there a particular age when they got confirmed, or a strategy to finding a specific person?

Thanks!

[John Wrenholt]

Ane Sofie Frederikke Larsen is AO: 1859-1891 Gyrstinge ops 115

Karen Larsen is AO: 1836-1860 Kirke Flinterup ops 113

[Jane C]

Robin - this is really impressive! You said you needed to brush up on your Danish research skills - I guess that worked out for you!  

Some help with Katrine, underlined below (1834 census), one of those you asked about: She was apparently Bodil Katrine. The mother in this family was born in Flinterup and everyone but the father. Maybe searching for a Bodil will help you identify her in Kirke Flinterup.

Karen Pedersdatter, another you questioned, is in italics below (1834 census). Yes, plejbarn means foster child. She could be related but not necessarily. The system for orphans seems to have been to place them with families. I don't know why "i barns sted" is added - maybe someone else can help with that.

Maybe someone else also has a better answer than I do about confirmation records, but I'll try to help. Pretty much all children were confirmed in the Lutheran faith - about age fourteen I guess. You may already know about the history of religion in Denmark or can read about it. The confirmation record shows that a specific kid was in a specific place at a specific time. So it adds to the census records and other church records (such as record of birth, small pox vaccination, betrothal/banns, marriage, and death). Usually the parents' names are given, and maybe the information is easier to read in one record or another, or an additional record can clarify a contradiction in a record found earlier.

As you can see, below, place of birth is added to the 1845 census and later, but is not recorded in earlier years.

1834
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Flinterup, Hus, 14, FT-1834, C6969
Søren Christensen 34 Gift husmand og daglejer
Ane Hansdatter 35 Gift hans kone
Karen Pedersdatter 14 Ugift plejebarn i barns sted (foster child in children's place)
Sophie Sørensdatter 3 Ugift deres barn
Katrine Sørensdatter 7 Ugift deres barn  
Søren Hansen 58 Gift Inderste og daglejer
Maren Jensdatter 71 Gift hans kone

1840
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Flinterup bye, huus, 65, FT-1840, C8291
Søren Christiansen 40 Gift huusmand
Anne Hansdtr. 41 Gift hans kone
Bodil Katrine Sørensdtr. 13 Ugift deres børn
Sophie Sørensen 9 Ugift do
Christian Sørensen 2 Ugift do

1845
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Flinterup, et Huus, 12, FT-1845, C0304
Søren Christiansen 45 Gift Huusfæster lever mest af Lodden Munkebjergby Sogn Sorø A
Ane Hansdatter 46 Gift hans Kone Her i Sogn [Flinterup]
Sophie Sørensdatter 14 Ugift deres Børn Do [Her i Sogn] [Flinterup]
Christian Sørensen 7 Ugift deres Børn Do [Her i Sogn] [Flinterup]
Peder Sørensen 3 Ugift deres Børn Do [Her i Sogn] [Flinterup]

1850
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Flinterup, et Huus, 12, FT-1850, B7554
Søren Christiansen 47 Gift Huusfader,Dagleier,lever af sin Jordlod Munke Bjergby,Sorø Amt
Ane Hansdatter 50 Gift hans kone I sognet
Sophie Sørensen 19 Ugift Deres Børn I sognet
Christian Sørensen 12 Ugift Deres Børn I sognet
Peter Sørensen 8 Ugift Deres Børn I sognet


[John Wrenholt]

Bodil Catherine (thanks Jane) is AO: 1826-1836 Kirke Flinterup ops 56

[Jane C]

Bravo, Mr. Wrenholt!

Below, some more census material re. Peder Larsen parents and siblings. (from Ralph, above: "Looks like the father of Ane Marie Larsen, Peder Larsen is born January 18, 1835 at Gyrstinge to Lars Pedersen and Anne Jensdatter (1826-1836, opslag 48). He is the only Peder Larsen baptized in Gyrstinge 1833-1836.)

1834 (posted by Ralph, above)
Soroe, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Ørslevvester by, et hus, 47, FT-1834, C6970
Navn (Name): Alder (Age): Civil stand (Married/Single/Widowed): Stilling i husstanden (Position in the household): Erhverv (Occupation): Fødested (Birthplace):
Lars Pedersen 29 Gift husmand
Ane Jensdatter 34 Gift hans kone
Sidse Larsdatter 5 Ugift deres barn
Hans Larsen 3 Ugift deres barn

1840
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge, huus, 6, FT-1840, C8292
Margrethe Andersdtr. 47 Enke almisselem
Mette Marie Hansdtr. 17 Ugift hendes børn
Maren Sophie Jensdtr. 9 Ugift do
Anne Marie Jensdtr. 7 Ugift do
Anne Madsdtr. 48 Enke almisselem
Hanne Hansdtr. 13 Ugift hendes børn
Dorthea Gottfriedsdtr. 10 Ugift do
Lars Pedersen 39 Gift arbejdsmand
Anne Jensdtr. 41 Gift hans kone
Sidse Larsen 11 Ugift deres børn
Hans Larsen 9 Ugift do
Peder Larsen 5 Ugift do
Karen Larsen 1 Ugift do

1845
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge, Et Huus, 5 [F2], FT-1845, C0294
Lars Pedersen 42 Gift Hmd Dagleier (day laborer, born in) Fjennesløv S Sorøe Amt
Anne Jensdatter 47 Gift hans Kone (his wife, born in) Jydstrup S Sorøe Amt
Sidse Larsen 16 Ugift deres Børn Flinterup S Sorøe Amt
Hans Larsen 14 Ugift deres Børn Do [Flinterup S] Do [Sorøe Amt]
Peder Larsen 11 Ugift deres Børn Her i Sognet [Gyrstinge]
Karen Larsen 5 Ugift deres Børn Do [Her i Sognet] [Gyrstinge

1850
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge, et Huus, 34, FT-1850, B7555
Lars Pedersen 45 Gift Huusmand, Arbeidsmand, Huusfader I sognet (born in this parish)
Ane Jensdatter 50 Gift hans kone Gyrstinge, Sorø Amt
Karen Larsen 11 Ugift Deres Datter I sognet

[Jane C]

More records for Peder Larsen:

1850
(Peder is "working out" here)
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge, en Gaard, 7, FT-1850, B7555
Christen Pedersen 46 Gift Gaardmand,Huusfader Alsted,Sorø Amt
Ane Jacobsdatter 51 Gift hans kone I sognet
Kirsten Sørensdatter 25 Ugift Deres Børn Alsted,Sorø Amt
Cathrine Sørensdatter 23 Ugift Deres Børn Alsted,Sorø Amt
Søren Pedersen 14 Ugift Deres Børn I sognet
Ane Pedersen 15 Ugift Deres Børn I sognet
Peder Larsen 16 Ugift Tjenestedreng (servant/working boy) I sognet

1860
(Peter Larsen's mother, Ane Jensdatter, is a widow, poor and dependent on her son Hans)
Sorø, Alsted, Gyrstinge, Gyrstinge Skoledistrikt, Gyrstinge, Et Hus, 52 - F3, FT-1860, D5708
Hans Larsen 29 Gift Husfader. Indsidder. Daglejer Gyrstinge Sogn, Sorø Amt
Karen Andersen 38 Gift Hans Kone Undløse Sogn, Holbæk Amt
Jens Peder Larsen 5 Ugift Deres Barn Gyrstinge Sogn, Sorø Amt Ane
Katharine Larsen 3 Ugift Deres Barn Gyrstinge Sogn, Sorø Amt
Ane Jensen 61 Enke Husfaders Moder. forsørges af Fattigvæsenet Jystrup Sogn, Sorø Amt

1860
(John posted earlier)
Sorø, Alsted, Flinterup, Kirke Flinterup Skoledistrikt, Kirke Flinterup, Et Hus, 19 - F2, FT-1860, D5709
Peder Larsen 26 Gift Inderste. Daglejer Gyrstinge Sogn, Sorø Amt
Karen Sophie Sørensen 29 Gift Hans Kone Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt
Hans Peter Larsen 4 Ugift Deres Barn Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt
Ane Marie Larsen 2 Ugift Deres Barn Kirke Flinterup Sogn, Sorø Amt

[Jane C]

Not sure about this stuff....A Jens Rasmusen and Dorte Jacobsdatter in Jystrup (Jydstrup), Ringsted, Sorø in 1801 with one child: 2-year-old daughter Anne Jensdatter (possible parents to Peder Larsen's mother Ane Jensdatter). Found again there in 1834 census with a grandson Jacob Pedersen, age 10, "their daughter's son."

[John Wrenholt]

I have looked at that 1801 census record for Ane Jensdatter previously but wasn't able to confirm it was the Ane we're looking for.

If it helps any, the birth record for Jacob Pedersen says that his mother Ane Jensdatter was unmarried at the time of birth and that the alleged father was Peder Olsen.

[Jane C]

Okay, thanks John. I looked twice at her because she was the only Ane Jensdatter I found in that parish, of about the right age, at ddd.dda.dk. "Our" Ane Jensdatter does not name a child Jens, Rasmus, Dorthe, or Jacob - family names for the Ane in the 1801 census in Jydstrup that might be repeated if she was the right Ane. I didn't find this second Ane in later years in Jystrup (if she is a separate person), although this could conceivably be her:
1845
Sorø, Ringsted, Jystrup, Jydstrup, et huus, 4, FT-1845, C2459
Ole Peter Olsen 45  Gift  Skomager København
Ane Jensdatter 48  Gift  hans kone Walsøelille sogn, Sorø amt
Jens Peter Olsen 14  Ugift  Deres barn Walsøelille sogn, Sorø amt

The boy Jacob Pedersen seems to be working as a tjenestedreng at Mortenstrup Bye in 1840.

[Jane C]

More useless information: This looks like the same couple living in Jydstrup in 1845. Since this Ane is married to a Peder Olsen and later lives in Jydstrup, seems she could be mother to Jacob Pedersen age 10 in Jydstrup (with her parents) in 1834.

1834
Sorø, Ringsted, Valsølille, Olden, [et Huus], 18 F2, FT-1834, C4937
Peder Olsen 32  Gift  Skoemager og Indsider  
Ane Jensdatter 37  Gift  hans Kone  
Stine Pedersdatter 8  Ugift  deres Børn  
Jens Pedersen 2  Ugift  deres Børn

[Homer Ficken]

-Peder Sørensen, born 7 March 1842, AO:  1836-1860 Kirke Flinterup, Alsted, Søro, ops 27, #8-9 (they were twins, both named Peder, and one died?)

I would also appreciate clarification, as this seems an odd record:   Why would they name twins both Peder?

But death records show one Peder died 17 March 1842, age 11 days.
(Kirke Flinterup 1836-1889, opslag 14, nr 1)

And 1856 confirmations list Peder born 7 March 1842, baptism 16 March; what does the date 19 June represent?
(Kirke Flinterup 1836-1889, opslag 65, nr 2)



[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Jane C]

1856 confirmations list Peder born 7 March 1842, baptism 16 March; what does the date 19 June represent?
(Kirke Flinterup 1836-1889, opslag 65, nr 2)

I think it says: He was baptised at home 16 March and in church (I read i kirke) 19 June.

About the rest - I hope someone will come here with an answer Homer. It's as if the little boy who died is a fleeting shadow of the one who lived.

Maybe the little one who died was never named yet his birth must be registered...? Instead of saying it's twins, maybe it reads: Tvillingesøn/broder of Peder, and Peder himself were born...

[R N]

Thanks John & Jane!  I've been working on trying to make a spreadsheet to see if I have all censuses for each person - is there a place one can go to get a listing of what towns were involved in each census?  For example, if a town was "censused" in 1834, most likely they wouldn't have been in 1835, right?  Or do I just have to go through each year and see if I get this answer "Den søgte kombination af amt, herred og sogn findes ikke. Undersøg om området er i databasen. Se Oversigt" - "The requested combination of county, township and parish does not exist. Check if the area is in the database. see details" according to Google Translate - which is what I get for 1870 for Flinterup and Gyrstinge.

Homer & Jane - in my experience with other branches of my tree, a few times I saw where they would name a child the same name as a previous child/children who had died.  How terrible for the living child to be a constant reminder of the child/children that had been lost.  In one family, there were 3 children with the same "recycled" name.  In this case, maybe they didn't name the babies right away, and when they knew the one wasn't going to make it, they named and baptized him, and when he passed away, they gave the living baby his name.

I'm reposting a question I had posted earlier - nobody responded yet.    "In regards to the marriage records - they don't list the parents??  Ugh.  How do you go about proving who their parents are then?  For Peder and Sophie's marriage - is the date 17 Feb 1856?  I'm a little confused about the year (1855 or 1856).  If it was 1856, then she, too, was pregnant when she got married.  Didn't realize it was such a common occurence back then.  What are the numbers/words directly above their names?"  And what are all the other columns on the birth and marriage records?  On the birth records, sometimes they list the names of their other children?  Or the grandparents?

Thanks!
Robin

[Homer Ficken]

Homer & Jane - in my experience with other branches of my tree, a few times I saw where they would name a child the same name as a previous child/children who had died.  How terrible for the living child to be a constant reminder of the child/children that had been lost.  In one family, there were 3 children with the same "recycled" name.  In this case, maybe they didn't name the babies right away, and when they knew the one wasn't going to make it, they named and baptized him, and when he passed away, they gave the living baby his name.

Yes, it was a northern Europe custom when a child died to use the name for next child of same sex born, but I've never seen this done in anticipation that one would not live!