Forfatter Emne: Naming pattern of an 1800's Danish family. Adding the 'sen'. Oversat til dansk  (Læst 5046 gange)

Jonathan Bryan

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Hi, thanks for reading my post.  I'm new to this board, and new to research in Denmark.  I'm helping a friend with her research, and came across some information I don't understand and would appreciate some help comprehending the information. 

The area I'm researching is in the county of Odense.  A family in the 1860 census has the father's name as Gorm Hansen, and the children's last name as Gormsen.  Well, apparently, they instead of being named Hansen, they've taken his first name and added the 'sen', meaning 'son of' or 'child of'....at least that's what it appears like to me.  My question is why?  Was this common in the mid 1800's?  Or, is there more to this story?

I will 'copy and paste' the census record below and give a 'translation' from Google Translate.

Name:   Age:   Marital status:   Occupation in household:   Occupation:   Birth place:
Gorm Hansen           37   Gift   huusfader, brøndsætter   her i sognet [Gjelsted]
Kirsten Jørgensdatter   35   Gift   hans kone                      Eiby sogn, Odense Amt
Karen Gormsen            8   Ugift    deres børn                      sammesteds [Eiby sogn, Odense Amt]
Hans Peter Gormsen   5   Ugift   deres børn                      sammesteds [Eiby sogn, Odense Amt]
Jørgen Gormsen    3   Ugift   deres børn                      her i sognet [Gjelsted]


Hej, tak for at læse mit indlæg. Jeg er ny til dette board, og ny forskning i Danmark. Jeg hjælper en ven med sin forskning, og kom på tværs af nogle oplysninger, som jeg ikke forstår, og ville sætte pris på lidt hjælp til at forstå oplysningerne.

Området er jeg forsker er i amtet i Odense. En familie i 1860-folketællingen er faderens navn som Gorm Hansen, og børnenes efternavn som Gormsen. Nå, tilsyneladende, de i stedet for at blive navngivet Hansen, har de taget hans fornavn og tilføjede den »sen«, der betyder "søn af" eller "barn af'.... det mindste det er, hvad det ser ud som mig. Mit spørgsmål er, hvorfor? Var denne fælles i midten af ​​1800-tallet? Eller er der mere til denne historie?

Jeg vil "kopiere og indsætte 'folketællingen record nedenfor, og giv en' oversættelse 'fra Google Translate.

I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Lissa Pedersen

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Karen Graabæk Møller

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Hi Jonathan

Adding to what Lissa has refered you to, the legal history of surnames means that the mid-1800's sees a confusion of new and old tradition when it comes to names.

In the larger towns, the surname became fixed quite a lot earlier than on the country. But in 1828, the first bit of law decided that everyone was to fix their surname on whatever name was most used in the family, or use a occupational or geographical name. This law was not accepted easily, and in places simply ignored!

A new attempt to fix the last names was made in 1857, where it was stressed that the priests had to give children the same surnames as their father. Effectively this also means that the ending - datter/daughter slowly "dies out" - literally!

I have seen examples that these two attempts still were not enforced during the 1870's. I think it became usual to give the children the same name no matter what, so that if the oldest children had been given patronyms, the youngest would be given the same patronym.

These laws did unfortunately not do what the government wanted - an easier way to distinguish persons. Too many families ended up with the same patronym, a fact seen today in last name statistics! So in 1904 it was made easier to change one's last name, and people were encouraged to take non-patronymic names!

Two webpages for you - unfortunately in Danish.

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navnelov

http://geneablog.kilokilokilo.dk/2006/dansk-navnelovgivning-gennem-tiderne/

Best regards
Karen G. Møller (an occupational surname - my middle-name is a geographical name ;))

Homer Ficken

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A "local" name sometimes became the family name very early, as in my wife's line:

1   Michel Andersen  1706   

2   Anders Michelsen  1738

3   Niels Andersen Skov  1765 

4   Anders Nielsen Skov  1790

5   Karsten Andersen Skov  1825

6   Andreas Nielsen Clausen Skov  1857  (His mother was a Clausen)

Niels Andersen Skov probably lived in or near the local woods or forest (skov) so Skov was added to distinguish him from the other local Niels Andersen.  The middle name then became the patronymic for two generations, but Skov was retained (and became Skow in USA)
Location:  Texas USA
Areas of interest:  Tønder county,  Brede, Daler, and Visby parishes
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=-skow-

Jonathan Bryan

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Thank you all for the links and explanations!  I had no clue......obviously.  Shows me I still have much to learn about cultural history all over the world.

Karen........your last name happens to be the same as the maternal line I'm researching.  Is 'Moller' a mason?  Lars, below, was a 'murer' and his children were "Moller-Hansen" (my computer isn't set up to do the 'slash').

1890 census:

Lars Frederik Hansen, 52
Karen Amalie Henriksen 47
Emma Magdarine Henrikke Moller Hansen
Olaf Rye Moller Hansen
Katnika Laurentine Moller Hansen
Inger Margrethe Moller Hansen
Laurense Augusta Moller Hansen


P.S.  For the residents of Denmark, I traveled to Denmark and performed some music before the beautiful Denmark people in the 80's.  I enjoyed ferry ride and wonderful visit.  Someday, I'd love to return.
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Lissa Pedersen

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Hi Jonathan,

Moller = Møller (Danish spelling) = miller

a "murer" = bricklayer

What part of Denmark is the census from?

Lissa

Karen Graabæk Møller

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Hi Jonathan

Thanks to Lissa for answering for me! The interesting part is that your Møller seems to appear out of nowhere - My maternal Grandfather's middle name was also Møller (not my Møller), and I have yet to find out why on earth he was baptized Møller, when it is not a family name, not even generations back. And none of the baptism witnesses were called Møller.

So maybe names were sometimes "invented"?

Karen

Paul Londahl-Smidt

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Hi Jonathan,

Two of my ancestors, Jørgen Simonsen and his brother Rasmus Simonsen, of Faaborg, Sallinge, Svendborg, took the name Løndahl in the 1760s.  What the name means and why they took it has remained a mystery to me.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Ralph Rasmussen

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'En fattig jomfru sad i løn', i.e. quiet(ly).  Like the bjærge in Denmark the dal, or valley, may not have been so very large.

One occasion for taking a name was being fortunate enough to secure a farm, fæste en gaard.  You might try the oldest maps of the area to see whether one of the farms was at least for the moment Løndal.

mvh
-Ralph
Med venlig Hilsen
Ralph Rasmussen
<1850 Hammer herred, Præstø

Jonathan Bryan

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..Look at this, what I believe is a baptismal record for Lars daughter, Laurense.  I have not translated this document, but believe it says that Lars full last name is Hansen-Lugrisgaard (sorry, spelling probably off) and Laurenses' fathers mother was "Moller-Hansen-Tanderijs S."  Occuaption-fathers first name surname-location of Amanda or her fathers birth?  Lol....I'm trying!  :)

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Jonathan Bryan

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...hmm as I try to find "Tanderij", the only location I can find with that name is in Netherland (Nederland).  

Sorry, I didn't mention earlier that the census I was looking at was on from Lunghoj, Gelsted, Odense.

Both the census records of the Lars Hansen family, and the Hans Peter Gormsen family of 1890 are within 20 entries of each other (Jorgen Peder Gormsen, aged 5/6 in 1890, and Laurense Auguste Moller-Hansen, age 3/4 in 1890 eventually married @ 1907 Iowa, USA).   The census I mentioned in my first message is of Hans Peder Gormsen when he was a child in 1860.
« Senest redigeret: 07 Nov 2011 - 05:22 af Jonathan Bryan »
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Jonathan Bryan

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Here is the baptismal (am I right about that assumption?) record of Jorgen Peder Gormsen.  Maybe someone wouldn't mind translating it for me?  

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Jonathan Bryan

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Correction:  I think "Tanderij" was probably refering to today's "Tanderup", which is right next to Gelsted.  Make sence?
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Karen Graabæk Møller

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Hi Jonathan

Transcription of Laurense's baptism:

"No 14. 31 August. Laurense Augusta Møller Hansen. Murer Lars Frederik Hansen, Ludvigsgaard og Hustru Karen Amalie Henriksen, 44 år. Døbt i Kirken d. 5te Decbr 1886. Pige Amanda Anine Marie Møller Hansen, Tanderup S., Snedker Jens Hansen, ??, Ungkarl Kristjan Hansen, Møllebygger Kr. Henriksen, Barløse."

Ludvigsgaard is the name of the "settlement"/town the parents live in - it is costumary to write this. Amanda Anine cannot be the father's mother, as she is "Pige" = Girl (meaning unmarried). After her last name Møller Hansen is the place she lives = Tanderup S(ogn) as you mention yourself.

Since one of the witnesses is a millbuilder, there is a possibility the family also know some millers - maybe they wanted to "honor" one of them by naming the children Møller?

Sometimes it is preferable to look at the original - if you want to refer to pages on AO, the common way to do so is: AO, Odense, Vends, Gelsted, 1869-1891, opslag 112
Adding the number of the baptism helps even further. The order of the county, district and parish can be inverted without problems.

Karen

Karen Graabæk Møller

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Jørgen Peder Gormsens baptism:

”No. 16. 14de Juli. Jørgen Peder Gormsen. Hsmd Hans Peder Gormsen, Lungebjerge og H[ustru] Karen Kirstine Nielsen, Mod. 27 År. Døbt i Kirken d. 14de Septbr 1884. Arbejdsmd. Rasmus Peder Pedersens H[ustru] i Middelfart, do do [Arbejdsmd. Rasmus Peder Pedersen, Middelfart], Aftægtsmd Peder Jørgensen, Lungebjerge, Murer Hans Kr. Pedersen, Lungebjerge.”

Hans Peder Gormsen is a smallholder in Lunge Bjerge. The mother is 27 years at the birth. Jørgen is baptized in the church September 14 1884. Witnesses were Workman Rasmus Peder Pedersen's wife from Middelfart, Workman Rasmus Peder Pedersen from Middelfart [his name is not written but indicated by do (ditto's), Pensioner Peder Jørgensen from Lungebjerge, Mason Hans Kr(istian) Pedersen from Lungebjerge.

Jonathan Bryan

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Thanks Karen.......

Think that Snedker Jens Hansen had a shortened form of Ludvigsgaard after his name?
I specialize in researching the western area of Virginia, USA

Karen Graabæk Møller

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That could be it!

Jane C

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oops..;just added 1850 census but you probably don't need it!
« Senest redigeret: 07 Nov 2011 - 18:23 af Jane Christiansen »