Looking for information on Martin & Robert Peterson family

[Ralph Rasmussen]

Sønder Ørslev is a village a half mile east of Idestrup and well within the parish boundaries.

Until the 1850's parish boundaries were important, as parishioners were 'bound' to the parish in which they lived.  Parish boundaries were set before the reformation, and sometimes reflect very old land ownership patterns.  With that much importance they are shown on the more detailed older maps.

mvh
-Ralph

[R N]

Has anyone had any luck finding anything on Ancestry.com?  I can't figure out the correct combination of spelling to find much of anything.  Is there a way that you could post a direct link to stuff that you have found?  Or email me the doc?  I would like to have proof that I can print out to show others in case they question me.  Thanks!

To summarize what we have found, this is what I came up with...
--Morten Pedersen: b. 26 January 1857 in Sønder Ørslev, Idestrup sogn, Falsters Sønder, Maribo.  Baptism 8 March.
--Brother Rasmus Pedersen: b. 25 June 1860 in same
--Both emmigrated in 1881, before which they lived in Væggerløse, Veggeløse, Falsters Sønder, Maribo (not sure on the order)
--Parents of Morten & Robert:  Hans Jørgen Pedersen (b. 15 January 1823) and Kirsten Hansen/datter (b. abt 1826 based on Census data provided), m. 23? October 1856.

--Parents of Hans Jørgen Pedersen:  Peder Hansen Mortensen (b. abt 1779 based on Census info provided, d. 10 December 1831) and Johane Jensdatter
--Siblings of Hans Jørgen Pedersen:  Morten Pedersen (b. 13 December 1820), Christiane Pedersdatter (b. 5 December? 1826), and Jens Peder Pedersen (b. 19 May 1829).

--Parents of Peder Hansen Mortensen:  Morten Hansen and Maren Rasmusdatter.

--Parents of Kirsten Hansen (Morten's mother):  Hans Pedersen (b. abt 1796 based on Census info provided) and Margarethe Jørgensdatter (b. abt 1814 based on Census info provided).  -OR- is her mother Karen Rasmusdatter (b. abt 1800 based on Census info provided)??
--Sibling of Kirsten Hansen:  Jørgen Hansen (b. abt 1838 based on Census info provided).

My questions from this data are:
--Karen Rasmusdatter is most likely Kirsten Hansen's mother, right?
--Hans Jørgen Pedersen married a woman with the same name as his mother, just to make sure I interpreted that correctly.
--Is there a name on the ship that Morten and Rasmus came over on?  And where they landed?
--Has anyone been able to find anything on Anna Marie Larson/Larsen, Peter Larsen, Sophie Sorenson, etc?

Thanks again for all the help!

[Homer Ficken]

My questions from this data are:
--Hans Jørgen Pedersen married a woman with the same name as his mother, just to make sure I interpreted that correctly.
--Is there a name on the ship that Morten and Rasmus came over on?  And where they landed?
Thanks again for all the help!

Hans Jørgen Pedersen's mother was Johanne Jensdatter; his wife was Kirsten Hansen.

I can't find the ship that Morten and Rasmus emigrated on.  Some passenger lists didn't survive or were damaged by ink blots and tears.  "Indirekte" on their registrations means the ship was not yet known and they probably left from another port, eg. Hamburg, Bremen, Liverpool.

[R N]

Oh good grief.  I didn't even read what I typed - I had it right in my response.  I need sleep. 

[Jane C]

Hi again Robin - nice to see you guys are making progress.

I hope some kind soul can check AO in Slagelse for Annie Maria Larsen.

Robin you asked about the mother of Kirsten Hansen (Kirsten being Morten's mother): The census data shows her mother is not Margarethe Jørgensdatter and that Karen Rasmusdatter was her father's wife when she was a little girl. Likely Karen is Kirsten's mother, but the church records are needed to be certain.

I don't know where you found the data for Peder Hansen Mortensen's parents - maybe it's just a mistake you saying they are Morten Hansen and Maren Rasmusdatter?

I think this is "our" Peder (Hansen) Mortensen:
1801
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse, , 37, FT-1801, B8365 
Morten Pedersen 65 Gift Mand Jordløs (landless) Huusmand og Tømmermand (carpenter)
Ane Hansdatter 66 Gift hans kone
Peder Mortensen 22 Ugift Deres børn - Hans Søn af 2det ægteskab (Morten's son from second marriage)

Robin, did you know you can make a family tree online at Ancestry.com for free? You need to pay to use many of their services, but building a tree is free. It's almost necessary to keep all these different family lines straight.

Here's a link to Annie and Morten/Marten on Family Search (as you asked to see stuff)

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MX15-GVB/p1

You bring up searching as a problem again. Do you want me to write an explanation how to use ddd.dda.dk? If you can navigate the site, then you should be able to bring up the exact same census data we are finding, by using the spellings and place names shown here in this forum.

Bear in mind that people in the forum are also "striking out" in searches, same as you. Sometimes the records aren't there, they are destroyed, or they are not digitized, and one must use an old-fashioned way of finding them (such as your aunt visiting the Door County courthouse). By the way - did she find obituaries for anyone we could see? It's a long shot, but an obit might say more about where Annie's parents are.

On ddd.dda.dk, I cannot find them.

Mvh

[R N]

Looking for Peder Hansen Mortensen, father to Hans Jørgen Pedersen  - Homer, can this be him?

1801
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse, , 37, FT-1801, B8365  
Morten Pedersen 65 Gift Mand Jordløs (landless) Huusmand og Tømmermand (carpenter)
Ane Hansdatter 66 Gift hans kone
Peder Mortensen  22 Ugift Deres børn - Hans Søn af 2det ægteskab (his son from second marriage)

1787
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Weggerløse Bye, Huusmænd, 11, FT-1787, C1997
Same family...Peder Mortensen age 8 Søn af 2det ægteskab. Here father Morten is a Dagleyer.

As for Hans Jørgen Pedersen's occupation of dagleier - I think that means day labourer.

Robin - about searching - sometimes the search engines are picky (some more than others) so try wild cards and different ways of spelling names. You'll get the hang of it on Family Search, Ancestry.com, www.ddd.dda.dk.

The churchbooks are much harder - this forum helps with that.

Jane, I was going by this post....I think.  How would I know if this one or the other one you posted is right?  It's confusing because children don't have the same last name as their parents, but at the same time, I guess it makes sense....somewhat.  

I do have a tree started on ancestry.com (over 1300 people on it), and I also have a copy of the original doc that you posted from the familysearch website.  I have kind of figured out how to use the ddd website, and have found all the census documents that have been posted so far.  Where would I go/how would I get access to church records?  Is that where I would use the AO website and try to decipher the grainy images?  Would those happen to be transcribed somewhere?

My aunt didn't find anything on this branch of the family tree.  But I will be going back home for Thanksgiving, so I'll try to get to the local library during that time, or see if I could get that newspaper microfiche sent to my local library here.  I think I might be able to do that.  Thanks again for the help!

ADDED:  I just noticed that you edited your post.  I had copied and pasted all these posts into a Word doc so I could print it out and write all over it trying to connect people, and when I copied it, it was different census info.  Oops.  I didn't notice that when I copied it just now.

[Jane C]

Hi Robin - forgot about that edit! Thought I revised pretty fast - but you were faster. : D

Looked again for parents for Annie Maria and Carrie Christine Larsen. No luck.

I hope some kind soul here in the forum will search AO Slagelse for you. ; D Or maybe people have searched and didn't find - so they didn't post. That could be.

Here's a link to the burial site of your great-great-grandparents. The name spellings vary a little:

Annie Marie Larsen m. Petersen, buried in St. Mary's of the Lake Cemetery in Bailey's Harbor, Door, Wisconsin. Her headstone says she died 1943.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996853&

Martin Petersen, died 1941:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996852&

Annie's sister Christine Larsen who married Rasmus/Robert Peterson (brother to Martin), died 1933:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996850&

Martin's brother Rasmus/Robert Peterson, d. 1934:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996851&

Robert and Christine had children Harry (abt 1891), William/Willie (abt 1895), Ludvig/Louis (abt 1901), Robert (abt 1908), and Eva (abt 1915) in 1905, 1910, and 1920 census.
I'm sure you have the information for Annie and Martin in the US. : D

[Jane C]

You wanted original records to print out - I don't get that an image of original marriage record for Martin and Annie on Ancestry.com. As was already posted, the date does come up. Has this citation information. So the original record can be ordered, and it might say more about Annie's parents. Forgive me if you already said you have this.
Wisconsin Marriages, pre-1907
Name: Martin Peterson
Marriage Date: 22 Dec 1888
County: Door
Volume: 01
Page: 0309

[R N]

Yes, I have their marriage registration - I had to go to a university library near Door County and was able to find it and print it out.  It lists Peter Larsen and Sophie Sorenson as her parents.  I've also been to their graves (both brothers are in same cemetery, but Robert's last name is Petersen, and Martin's is -son, weird) and have pictures of the graves.  Next time I go home, my grandpa's going to take me to the site where their farm was (but not sure if any buildings/house are still standing).  I'm going to try to order the Door County newspapers for that time period to see if I can find her obit and get info from that.  I'm hoping my local library can get them for me.

[Jane C]

Hi again - sounds good. I'm like you in that it's very hard for me to navigate the churchbooks websites and we need help. The other day when Ralph and Homer tried to search, the AO site was down. Maybe in time help will come here. If not, you could make a new post for finding Annie Marie Larsen's birth record. If so be sure to reference this thread and give all the possible names for searching - that is, include Annie's sister Carrie Christine.  (Presumably Caroline Kirstine in Denmark, but could vary). Their mother Sophie could be Sophia, Sofie, Sofia, Soffie, Soffia...Carrie Christine was said to be born on Sjælland, the island on which Copenhagen and Slagelse, Soro, both are found. I've certainly searched all the amounts on the island and done a global search in Denmark, as I'm sure you have too, on www.ddd.dda.dk.

This link lists other cities on the island - although that's really kind of pointless to have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealand

[Jane C]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MGTR-2F5/p1

Here's Maren Sophie Sorensdatter (danish o)
single, age 27, b 1841
in Braaby, Soro, Denmark
married 16 May 1868
to Peder Larsen
widowed, age 42, b. 1826

source ref. bk #16 page 238 #2

So if this is "our" couple, then Peder and Sophie get married after Annie Maria Larsen is born in 1859!
And there's a Maren Sophie Sorensdatter getting married to Mads Nielsen in 10 Oct 1863 in Haslev, Soro, Denmark - no idea if it's the same woman.

[R N]

Awesome! 

[Jane C]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MGTR-2F5/p1

Here's Maren Sophie Sorensdatter (danish o)
single, age 27, b 1841
in Braaby, Soro, Denmark
married 16 May 1868
to Peder Larsen
widowed, age 42, b. 1826

source ref. bk #16 page 238 #2

So if this is "our" couple, then Peder and Sophie get married after Annie Maria Larsen is born in 1859!

Robin - I edited OUT that added comment.

[R N]

What is the reference number in reference to?  Can I look that up somewhere?

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Robin,

The reference number refers to where in the Braaby (now spelled Bråby) church books the marriage can be found.

Yes you can access these records online for free.  Don't let the fact that the site is in Danish worry you as it is easy to use.

Go to http://www.sa.dk/ao/

Click on kirkebøger (church book)

Click on søg in kirkebøger (search in churchbook)

For amt choose Sorø

For herred choose Ringsted

For sogn choose Bråby

Now click on  the book for 1841-1890, and on the left side click on Opslag 211.  When the page loads look at record 2 and you will see the marriage record of Peder Larsen.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Jane C]

Thanks Paul - Robin will be so pleased to see this! Although, since Annie Maria Larsen of Door County, Wisconsin, was born in 1859, this 1868 record raises the obvious question.

Probably the next question is - what does it say? I too would like to get a better handle on reading the churchbooks. I see the following, but maybe it's wrong:

Churchbook for Braaby, Ringsted, Sorø

op. 211 #2

first column, Bridegrooms name etc:
Huusmand og (and) __________ Peder
(next line) Larsen in ______________ 42 års gl. (years gammel/old)
(next line) og (and) ____________13 (15?) June 1827
(next line) ____________________________(probably says widowed)

second column, Bride's name etc:
Pigen (maiden) Karen Sophie Sorens [not Maren as the Family Search record says]
(en? very faint)  __________ 37 års? [ not 27 years as the Family Search record says]
_____28 June 1833? og (and)
__________ (probably says single)

next column, Witnesses:
Fredrich Sorensen and Christen Christensen

16 May [1868]

i kirke(?) [in church?]

far right - can't read -

[Ralph Rasmussen]

The 1868 marriage transcribed:

Huusmand og Enkemand Peder
Larsen i Vesteregede 42 Aar gl. [Vester Egede]
og vaccineret 15 Juni 1827
af Heyer.  Første Gang Enkemand [widowed only once]

Pigen Karen Sophie Søren...
paa Gisselfeld 37 Aar og vac
cineret 28 Juli 1833 af U?...
...

Picked from the remarks:
Banns were read 5, 12, 19 April
Probate? 25 March

mvh
-Ralph

[R N]

If Peder was a widower, then maybe his previous wife was Anna Marie's (and Carrie Christine's) mother?  Is that what you mean, Jane?

Also, where is a good place to look for death info?  AO?  In those same parish books?

Another question - back in Svar #2 from Ralph, Alling shows up after one of the names - does this translate to something, or is it part of his name?  (Hans Pedersen Alling 44 Gift Husmand og Skomager)

[R N]

What does this mean?  It's a source of some type, like the parish records or census, I think?

Den nøjagtige dato vides ikke

[Jane C]

Thanks for writing Robin. Good to hear from you.

"If Peder was a widower, then maybe his previous wife was Anna Marie's (and Carrie Christine's) mother?  Is that what you mean, Jane?"

Yes

"Also, where is a good place to look for death info?  AO?  In those same parish books?"

Yes

"Another question - back in Svar #2 from Ralph, Alling shows up after one of the names - does this translate to something, or is it part of his name?  (Hans Pedersen Alling 44 Gift Husmand og Skomager)"

Part of his name, added after his calling name (Hans), his patronymic name (Pedersen), to further identify which Hans Pedersen it is. Allinge may be a place where some ancestor is from (and name stayed with the familiy), or a place where the person himself is from, especially in early generations. There's an Allinge on Bornholm - I don't know where all else.

[R N]

I *think* we may have the wrong Kirsten Hansdatter (Martin's mother).  I'm trying to figure it out.  Ugh.

Jane - that one that you had changed a while back, where Maren Pedersdatter and Hans Pedersen were listed as her parents -

Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Sønder Ørslev Bye, , et huus, 44 (22), FT-1834
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Hans Pedersen   25    Gift      huusmand har jordlod og er skræder   
Maren Pedersdatter   31    Gift      hans kone   
Kirsten Hansdatter   1    Ugift      deres barn   
Engel Simonsdatter   18    Ugift      tjenestepige

Why did you decide this was wrong?  Because the age didn't add up with the marriage registration?

[Jane C]

Guess I was writing this as you posted - I'll read what you put, Robin!

Hi Robin, That's too bad that you are discouraged. Bear in mind that in my parents' day, people doing a genealogy took decades to develop the needed information, and invested time and money in trips to archives near and far. I think you've found out a lot about your family here, very quickly.

There is no doubt we have the correct Kirsten Hansdatter as Martin Petersen's mother. You knew her name and the name of Martin's father. You knew Martin's birthdate. You knew Martin had first gone to Racine, Wisconsin.

Then we found the Danish-equivalent name, Morten Petersen, with that exact birth date and that father's name and that mother's name. He was in Idestrup parish, on the island of Falster, in Falster Sonder herred, Maribo. Then we found Morten Petersen of the right age from that place immigrating to Racine, Wisconsin.

Ergo...we have our man.

This string of facts backed up by those for his brother. Rasmus Petersen's death certificate even states he was born in "Sonder Ortev." Americans mangle the names of Danish places - since there is no Sonder Ortev (that doesn't even sound Danish), this must be Sonder Orslev, the village within Idestrup parish that we talked about.

You question this line of reasoning, why?

[R N]

I don't doubt any of the "male" part of the line - Morten ->Hans Jørgen ->Peder Mortensen etc. etc.  But I came across the website of someone else's family tree where they had Hans Pedersen (Alling) as the father of Kirsten Hansdatter, and that she was married 3 times, 2 of the spouses listed, neither of them Hans Jørgen, and had 4 children, none of them a Morten, etc. etc.  If you google Hans Pedersen (Alling), it's the first site that comes up - but click on Translate this page instead of the actual site, otherwise it just brings you to a search page (at least, that's what it does to me).  This is the Hans that we are thinking is Kirsten's father.  Then, going back to google, the third site on the page says Kirsten Hansdatter (but click on Translate this page), and this is where things don't add up.  I haven't been able to find the exact records that he cites, yet, but I'm working on it.

[Jane C]

Ha ha - again you posted while I was writing! Okay, let's see what you said!

Okay, Robin, you ask, "Why did you decide this was wrong?  Because the age didn't add up with the marriage registration?"

I love how you are carefully assessing the facts. It is easy for people to get confused - including posters in the forum - with all the details that are involved.

We start with Martin Petersen. We find his birth record, based on information you provided as established fact.

We then looked for THAT Hans Jorgen Petersen and THAT Kirsten Hansen. There are many people with those names, so yes, it's good to be careful about confusion.

When Martin/Morten was born, Kirsten was age 32. 1857 - puts her born about 1825.

1834 census we posted - KH age 9 - puts her b abt 1825 - place of birth not noted

1840 census - KH age 15 - b abt 1825 - place of birth was not noted

1880 census - KH 54 - b abt 1826 (given the month of the year, ages can be a bit off like that) - place of birth noted as Torkilstrup Sogn

We have not found her birth certificate right? We think we know her parents, and that she was born in Torkildstrup Sogn, which is surprising.

That other Kirsten is too young -

Have you found a Kirsten and Hans couple who are a better fit?

[R N]

Ha.  No.  I'm just going off what this guy's tree says.  I'm just trying to prove HIS info wrong.  Were you able to find what I was talking about?

[Jane C]

....google Hans Pedersen (Alling), ....

I did Robin and I don't see the link you mean. Would you please post the link here? Just copy the address in the address bar of your search engine, and paste it into a forum post.

[Jane C]

We will prove him wrong!

[R N]

I'm not sure if these will work - they're actually google translate sites, but here goes. 

Hans Pedersen (Alling)

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://26.19.5746.static.theplanet.com/users/hjolsen/1/data/116&ei=5sGkTrewD6XJsQL3z82FBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhans%2Bpedersen%2B%28alling%29%26hl%3Den%26rls%3D%257Bmoz:distributionID%257D:%257Bmoz:locale%257D:%257Bmoz:official%257D%26prmd%3Dimvnso

Kirsten Hansdatter

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://26.19.5746.static.theplanet.com/users/hjolsen/1/data/105&ei=5sGkTrewD6XJsQL3z82FBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhans%2Bpedersen%2B%28alling%29%26hl%3Den%26rls%3D%257Bmoz:distributionID%257D:%257Bmoz:locale%257D:%257Bmoz:official%257D%26prmd%3Dimvnso

[Jane C]

Hi Robin - I need to look more closely at this...I'm being tugged another direction....
To be continued....!

[Ralph Rasmussen]

I haven't revisited the 1840 census, to confirm in any way my first 'find' of Kirsten Hansen's parents.

I do see a Kirsten Hansen ('Hansdatter') baptized in Torkildstrup and born February 6, 1824 (KB 1813-1829, opslag 56 #5) to Hans .... of Sillerup and Ellen Marie Rasmusdatter.  

Next stop is her confirmation, presumably with a vaccination date.

That turns out to be 1829-1839, opslag 74 #6.  I am able to pick out Kirsten's name and her mother's name and read that important vaccination as July 3, 1824 by Klein.

mvh
-Ralph