Niels Jensen Winther, Vrensted, Denmark approx 1763

[icunurse36@yahoo.com]

Hello:
My first post, I am so excited. I have to say, that I have been stuck on my 3x great grandfather, Niels Jensen Winther, born approximately in 1763 in Wrensted (Vrensted?) Denmark. He married in Arendal, Norway Gunnild Rasmussdatter in 1811. He had my great, great grandmother Marthe Helene Winther in Arendal in 1821. I am stuck anywhere in Denmark on his family. I was wondering if anyone could possibly help me find his family or give me some tips on the Winthers in northern Denmark.

Thanks!!

Christine Beattie
USA

[Jane C]

Hi Christine - I'm pretty new here too and learning a lot. There's a place called Wrensted Bye, Vrensted, Børglum, Hjoerring in Denmark. The website ddd.dda.dk has a map (kort) that will show where that is. Here's a link that discusses a Jens Jensen Winther in Vrensted, in this forum, some time ago:

http://www.dis-danmark.dk/forum/read.php?1,312210

"Jens Jensen Winther var skoleholder i Vrensted "i 1760-erne og atter i 1780erne, men nævnes 1797 som Sætteskoleholder i Nørlev i Skallerup S."

I can't really read Danish....but think it says Jens became a teacher there in Vrensted parish in 1760 and later lived in another parish, Nørlev in Skallerup. A son of his would be a Jensen and could be a Jensen Winther born about the right time. I think the discussion in the link says sometimes that last identifer name of Winter was not used (he is just Jens Jensen in the 1787 census).

Hjørring, Børglum, Vrensted, Wrensted Sogn, Wrensted Bye, 48, FT-1787, C4884
Jens Jensen 58 Gift (married) Skoleholder i Wrensted
Mette Jensdatter 65 Gift Madmoder (his wife)
Hans Kynde 10 Ugift (unmarried) Pleyebarn (foster child)
with one servant girl also

[Erling Agesen]

Hello Christine,

Niels Jensen was christened 30 Oct. 1763 in Vrensted parish.

IGI Individual Record    FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
     Denmark
Search Results  | Download | Print      
NIELS JENSEN    Pedigree
     Male                   
Event(s):
   Birth:
   Christening:     
30 OCT 1763      Vrensted, Hjorring, Denmark
   Death:
   Burial:          
Parents:
     Father:     JENS SKOLEHOLDER    Family
     Mother:     ANNE NIELSDR    
Source Information:
   Batch No.:     Dates:     Source Call No.:     Type:     Printout Call No.:     Type:
   C203071     1730 - 1814     0049195      Film     NONE     
   Sheet: 00

Attached is the page where you can find Niels Jensens christening (bottom of page).

I searched Niels Jensen in the 1787-census, but since he has a very common Danish name it is almost impossible to find the right person.

His father is in the 1801-census in Skallerup parish, Nørlev Village.
He is now 65 years, widow (Enkemand) and School-keeper.
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Skallerup, Nørlev Bye, , 3, FT-1801, B8403
Navn:    Alder:    Civilstand:    Stilling i husstanden:    Erhverv:    Fødested:
Peder Thirup   41    Gift   Huusbonde   Bonde og Fæste Gaard=Beboer   
Zidsel Pedersdatter   38    Gift   Hans Kone      
Ole Jensen   20    Ugift   Tieneste=Folk      
Niels Pedersen   15    Ugift   Tieneste=Folk      
Else Axelsdatter   23    Ugift   Tieneste=Folk      
Jens Jensen Vinter   65    Enkemand   Manden ??   Omgans Skoleholder i Byen   
Johanne Nielsdatter   15    Ugift   Børn af Konens første Egteskab      
Jens Nielsen   12    Ugift   Børn af Konens første Egteskab      
Kiersten Nielsdatter   11    Ugift   Børn af Konens første Egteskab      
Else Pedersdatter   8    Ugift   Børn med denne Mand eller Konens andet Egteskab      
Anne Pedersdatter   7    Ugift   Børn med denne Mand eller Konens andet Egteskab      
Niels Christian Pedersen   5    Ugift   Børn med denne Mand eller Konens andet Egteskab      
Peder Pedersen   3    Ugift   Børn med denne Mand eller Konens andet Egteskab      
Karen Pedersdatter   1    Ugift   Børn med denne Mand eller Konens andet Egteskab

Parish records are on-line - http://www.sa.dk/ao/default.aspx.
Census can be found on ddd.dda.dk

Erling

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Flemming Kristensen]

Hej Christine

From Nygaard sedler:
http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=410364&sort=e
Jens Winter degn i Bindslev
Children
Jens sep 1737   (FT 1801 65 år)
Frans 16/3 1740

http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=410392&sort=e
Winter, Jens degnen (father)
dead 7/11 1740 Tversted

http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=410399&sort=e
Winter, Jens 1715 præst, Mygind (grand father??)


http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=410411&sort=e
Winter, Jens 1733 30/4 degn, Bindslev

Med venlig hilsen
Flemming Kristensen

[Jane C]

Hi again - Looks like the lead of Jens Jensen Winther (or Winter, or Vinter), teacher, did work out, and he is the father to "your" Niels! Cool.  

Here's a link on GENI family history site to see Jens Jensen Skoleholder i Vrensted (same guy as Jens Jensen Winther in Vrensted):
http://www.geni.com/people/Jens-Jensen-Skoleholder/6000000012885234254

Includes information relating to wife Mette Jensdatter who is not the mother to "your" Niels Jensen Winther. (If the IGI record posted by Erling is correct, she should be Anne Nielsdatter):

21. dec. 1792 skifte efter husmand Erich Sørensen Skrædders hustru Johanne Jensdatter i Nørre Saltum. Søskende.......Mette Jensdatter, gift med Jens Jensen skoleholder i Vrensted.

-----------------------------------------------------
Below must be Anne Nielsdatter's father Niels Jensen dying 17 JULY 1762 in Nørre Harritslev at the home of his son Jens. Daughter Ane Nielsdatter, age 31 when he died, is married to Jens Winter the teacher in Vrensted:

Side 388 - 17.juli 1762 Niels Jensen   i Nørre Harritslev, død hos Jens Nielsen ibidem. Børn (CHILDREN): Ane Nielsdatter, 31 år, gift med Jens Winter, skoleholder i Vrensted, Jens Nielsen, 29 år, boende i Nørre Harritslev, hvor faderen døde, Maren Nielsdatter, 26 år, Niels Nielsen, 22 år. For de yngste var Christen Jensen af Nørre Harritslev formynder [?]
Link:
http://rigmornoergaard.tripod.com/Aastrup_1740.htm

[Jane C]

Niels Jensen died in Nørre Harritslev, [? sogn/parish], Vennebjerg herred, Hjørring amount.

I thinks this is Astrup parish...? Help?

From the same link, above, looks like Ane Nielsdatter's mother was Johanne Nielsdatter; she died 13 December 1759 in Nørre Harritslev:

Side 361 13.december 1759 Niels Jensens kone Johanne Nielsdatter i Nørre Harritslev. Børn: Ane Nielsdatter, 29 år, gift med Jens Winter, skoleholder i Vrensted; Jens Nielsen, 27 år; Maren Nielsdatter, 24 år; Niels Nielsen, 20 år. Christen Jensen af Nørre Harritslev var formynder for de to yngste.  

[Erling Agesen]

To Jane Christiansen and Christine Beattie


If the IGI record posted by Erling is correct, she should be Anne Nielsdatter):

It is correct - just take a look on the file, I attached yesterday.
The parents are Jens Skoleholder and Anna Nielsdatter.

Erling

[Jane C]

Hi Erling - Oh I forgot you looked it up in the churchbook! And attached a record. I clicked on it just now, and I cannot read the record - but I certainly believe you that it is correct. So...we can trust that Anne Nielsdatter is mother to Niels Jensen Winther. Thank you!
Mvh

[Erling Agesen]

I read the following in the churchbook:

Christening 1763, Vrensted,  No. 20.
30 October
Jens Skoleholder and Anne Nielsdatter from Wrensted, Son NIELS
Sponsors: Madam Stampe, Magrethe ?Iversdatter, Christen Bruus, Laurits Kirkegaard, Christen Knudsen

Intr. 18 Decbr.


Erling

[icunurse36@yahoo.com]

Hello All:

Thanks so much for the information...I am trying to wrap my head around the name differences...Jensen vs. Winther (Vinter)..it is similar to my family in Norway with the name of the farms listed. It can be so confusing! So do you think that  the name of Vrensted listing is either a farm or a town?? I am amazed with the information that you all have given me. I am trying to learn more about my Danish heritage and about Denmark in general. My niece is in Amsterdam and I am hoping maybe she can make a trip there for me. I cannot thank you all enough....If you ever need anything on this side of the world, please feel free to contact me.

Regards,

Christine

I read the following in the churchbook:

Christening 1763, Vrensted,  No. 20.
30 October
Jens Skoleholder and Anne Nielsdatter from Wrensted, Son NIELS
Sponsors: Madam Stampe, Magrethe ?Iversdatter, Christen Bruus, Laurits Kirkegaard, Christen Knudsen

Intr. 18 Decbr.


Erling

[Erling Agesen]

Hello Christine,

Vrensted is a village (approx. 400 inhabitants) in northern Jutland. It is about 6 km. from Loekken, which is a well known holiday place on the Danish westcoast.
Vrensted is also the name of the parish: Vrensted - district Boerglum, County Hjoerring.

About year 1700 and up to 1850/1900 there were considerable trade between northern Denmark and southern Norway, called "skudehandel". Timber from Norway were transported to Denmark and food from Denmark to Norway. Transport was done by flat-bottomed vessels, "skuder", that were able to land on the sandy Danish coast. Loekken was one of the main places for this activity.
This is also the reason that Danes settled in Norway and visa versa.

I suggest you to take a look on Vrensted and Loekken in Google Maps.

Erling

[Jane C]

Hello Christine,

I can sympathisize with your saying, "I am trying to wrap my head around the name differences...Jensen vs. Winther (Vinter. My Danish Roots is a good place to learn more about Danish naming practices.

http://mydanishroots.com/research-guides/3-surnames-meaning-and-origin.html?layout=blog

[Jane C]

Vrensted link: a map, a photo of the church where your ancestors were baptised, etc., Click the map to zoom in and out - from far above, you can see Vrensted across the bay (North Sea) from Kristiansand. : D

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/33011371

The previous DIS forum discussion (see the link I posted) says: "Ut fra kronologien, slik C. Klitgaard fremstiller den i boken Vrensted Sogn (kapitlet "Skoler, Degne og Lærere"), "burde" Jens Jensen være identisk med Jens Jensen Winther (f. i Bindslev 1737; sønn av Jens Jensen Winther og Sophie Kathrine Bruun).

So that is a source you will want to see!

And notice that this history says Jens Jensen Winther schoolteacher is the son of Jens Jens Jensen Winther and Sophie Kathrine Bruun.

Mvh

[Jane C]

And from the records Flemming found and posted:

Jens Winter degn (parish clerk) in Bindslev and Sophie Kathrine Bruun are the parents of
Jens born September 1737 in Bindslev (in the census for 1801 he is 65 years old)
(his brother Frans born 16 March 1740). Being a teacher and being a parish clerk seem closely related - those two jobs occur together (same guy) a lot. I don't know more about that.

You can see the father died 07 November 1740 in Tversted.

I found the answer to my earlier question About Astrup vs. Hjørring:

Hjørring amount 1794-1970 = Aastrup amount 1662-1793

More about places names in Hjørring amount:
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hj%C3%B8rring_County,_Denmark

[Jane C]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/9ZM4-CSD/p1

Sophie Cathrine Brun married Jens Winther
03 Aug 1735
Sindal, Hjorring, Denmark

[icunurse36@yahoo.com]

Wow, such great information. Thanks so much to both of you...the maps and information are so helpful!! ...I have found a few things on the internet...this web page confirmed what you had:

http://tng.kaj-ahlburg.dk/getperson.php?personID=I1508&tree=tree4

This page also shows information on the Bruun side of the family.. (Sophie Cathrine Christie Bruun married to Jen Vinter). Interesting to note that the name Christie starts to appear in the listings...what do you think that is from???

http://www.brejl.dk/hjorringgejst.htm

29 Bertel Frandsen Bruun, præst i Sindal og Astrup. 3.7.1742, fol.169B.
E: Margrethe Hedvig Jensdatter Hagedorn, [skifte 13.11.1732 lbnr.20]. B:
1) Sofie Cathrine Bruun, der ægter Christen Bjerregaard, [degn i Harridslev, Sejlstrup og Rakkeby]
2) Birthe Bruun
3) Anne Marie Bruun.
Afdøde døde 2.6.1742.

Margaret Hedvig Jensdatter Hagedorn in Sindal rectory. 13.11.1732, fol.120B. 
E: Bertel [Frandsen] Browne, pastor of Sindal and Astrup. B: 
1) Sophie Cathrine Christie 27 
2) Birthe Christie 25 
3) Anne Marie Bruun 23rd

23 Pedersen [Jensen] Frugaard, pastor of Elling and Tolne. 5.10.1736, fol.129B. 
E: Inger Laurids daughter. LV: Lorenz [Gerhard Christoffersen] Mumme, priest [in Åsted and Skærum. B: 
1) His Frugaard 20 
2) Ida Dorothy Frugaard 18 
3) Elise Kirstine Frugaard 17 
4) Georgia Ida Frugaard 15 
5) Fred Kirstine Frugaard 13th 
FM: 
1) Mathias [Mathiasen] Holm, pastor [in Jelstrup and Lyngby] 
2 ) Eric [Andersen] Miller, successor 
3) Laurids [Jensen] Vadum, priest [in Drying and Heldum] 
4) Peter Bloch 
5) Bertel [Frandsen] Christie, pastor [in Sindal and Astrup]. 
inheritance in the estate of President Hans Christensen Elling, [died in June 1714] to B: 
1) His daughter Inger Elling 
2) Aksel Hansen Elling. 
FM: Christen Jensen Elling, pastor of


I am trying to find the parents of Bertel Frandsen Bruun...I thought I found him in 1674 but cannot confirm...He died in 1742

[Jane C]

Fantastic!! What a lot of information there is - The family has so many teachers!

To summarize the Winther findings, the man Flemming found as possible grandfather is INDEED grandfather according to the online family trees you posted:

Jensen, Jens Winther
Født : C.1700 i Mygind?
Død : 1740 i Sønder Bindslev i Bindslev
Begravet : 07.NOV.1740 i Bindslev
Stilling : Degn
Århus Stift.
d: 7 Nov: Sepult: Degnen Hr: Jens Vinther af S:B:
P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.
"Mrs. Jens Winther er hel vel habil til Dansk Skoleholder, om han ikkun maatte
vorde tillagt saa meget Husrum, at han kunne holde skole, som hidindtil har
manglet her. Han har kun haft et Rum og Værelse for sig selv og Hustru, end
mindre Lejlighed til at holde Skole i." [Skolemandtal 1739, LNj].
Han var ellers i alle forhold upåklagelig.
Par:
Gift: 03.AUG.1735 i Sindal
    SOURCE: P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.

Fælle:
Bruun, Sophie Cathrine
Født : C.1705 i Sindal?
Død : 1781 i Harreslev
Begravet : 29.OCT.1781 i Harreslev
P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.
P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.
Datter af provst Bertel Frandsen Bruun og Margrethe Hedvig Hagedorn i Sindal.
Andre døtre synes at være Anne Marie og Birgitte.
Senere g.m. Christen Pedersen Bjerregaard, også skoleholder og degn.

Børn:
Jensen, Jens Winther
Født : 1737 i Bindslev
Døbt : 17.FEB.1737 i Bindslev
Stilling : Sætteskoleholder
Dom: Septuag: døbt Degnens Jens Vinthers barn i S:B: Kaldet Jens Test: Anne
Maire Bruun af Sindahl Præstegd. Provsten Velærv. hr. Berthel Bruun, Corporal
Pape, Severiin Kliim af Mosberg og Bergithe Bruun af Sindahl Præstegd:
P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.
Boede nogle år i Hjørring, men var 1797 Sætteskoleholder i Nørlev.
[Hjørring Bys Tgbg 21/3 1797].
Jensen, Frantz Winther
Født : 1740 i Bindslev
Døbt : 16.MAR.1740 i Bindslev
d:16 Marty Døbt Degnens Jens Vinthers barn i S:B: Kaldet Frantz Test: Provsten
hr Bruun, Lars Thoers. Johanne Mumme, Severiin Kliim, Birgethe Bruun;
P.M.Rørsig: Skoler, Degne og Skoleholdere i Vendsyssel. 1953.

Margrethe Hedvig Hagedorn:

http://ddd.dda.dk/nygaard/visning_billed.asp?id=124525&sort=f

[Jane C]

I see the family (Bruun) in this book - but the generations seem twisted to me - probably you have got them set up in a family tree to keep it straight -  

http://books.google.com/books?id=oyMRAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=Bertel+Frandsen+Bruun&source=bl&ots=kYPCqB2JwK&sig=XoC0SvN_A5zTYFqFclbOOwBm0M4&hl=en&ei=GaKdTtWSDNHSiAKvh83tCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Bruun&f=false

I see that the brother Frants baptised 16 March 1740 died as a baby:
begravet 27 Jun 1740: Frantz: Jens Winthers Barn af Bindtzlef, 5 (måneder) 1 (uge) 4 (dage)