Christian August Lindeborg - Hoptrup and Schleswig Holstein

[Kandace Lindeberg]

I am looking for information on my great grandfather Christian August Lindeborg, son of Jens Lorenz and Anna Kerrline Pedersen (as noted on his death certificate). 

He immigrated to Australia from Schleswig Holstein and notes his place of birth to be Hoptrup around August of 1850. 

Unfortunately that is all the information I have on my great grandfather.  I apologise for it being very limited as my family does not know much at all about his life in Denmark before he sailed to Australia. 

I was hoping that someone may be able to assist me in getting any information or archives about him and/or his family. 

Thank you,

Kandace Lindeberg
Sydney, Australia

[Inger Buchard]

If Hoptrup is the correct birth place you have an easy search
www.slesvignavne.dk tells that Hoptrup is a parish (sogn) of its own
www.arkivalieronline.dk gives you the church records (kirkebøger) online
Birth/baptizm: Fødsel/Daab

But I can't find any Christian August born in Hoptrup 1847-185; take a look around yourself - are you sure that Hoptrup is correct?

Inger

[Jane C]

There is a Jens Lorenz Haustedt age 7 in 1835 in Hoptrup, Haderslev, Haderslev as well as two men named Jens Lauritzen in other census years.

Christian August's father may be Jens Lorenz Pedersen (not just Jens Lorenz).  And his mother could be Anna Kerrline (or Caroline) with no last name given - yes? At least it is American custom to so often drop the mother's maiden surname and write the surname just once for a couple.

With that in mind, in 1835 there is a Christian August Petersen, age 57, in Dorf S. Mastrup, Hoptrup, Haderslev, Haderslev - of course it might be no relation.

And there is a Jens Pedersen Lindberg born 27 JULY 1865 in Nustrup, Haderslev, to Peter Jensen Lindberg and Ane Kirstine Romet.

Not too helpful...trying to find possible relatives as clues.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Kandace,

August Christian Lindeberg was married to Henrietta/e Kirstine Jørgensen, wasn't he? Were they married before coming to Queensland, Australia? If you can locate their marriage you will have information on him? Do you know when and where she was born? Is Arthur Christian Lindeberg related to August Christian? Brothers, for example.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Mr. C. A. Lindeberg.
Mr. Christian August Lindeberg, aged
81 years, died at Granville on Decem-
ber 9. He had been a resident of the district for over 60 years, and is sur- vived by his widow, two daughters Mesdames L. Greaves (Brisbane) and J. Thompson (Sydney)-and four sons -Messrs. Albert and Charles (Mary- borough), Percy (Sydney), and Walter Lindeberg (Mackay).

Obituary from 1931. If is true that he been in Australia for over 60 years, he must have emigrated as a teenager.

Eva M

Mr. C. A. Lindeberg.The Brisbane Courier (Qld. : 1864 - 1933) Monday 14 December 1931 p 15 Article

[Jane C]

Some records for the family in Australia - from Ancestry.com.

Shows Christian August Lindeberg immigrated before 1873.

Australia Marriage Index
Christian August Lindeborg married Henrietta Kerstine Jorgensen
1 Feb 1873 in Queensland

Australia Election Roles: 1905 Maryborough, Wide Bay, Queensland, on Alice Street: Christian August Lindeberg, Henriette Lindeberg; Agnes Lindeberg; Charles Andrew Lindeberg. On Albert Street: Johan Petersen Lindeberg, Auguste Helene Florentine Lindeberg, and Charles William Lindeberg

1908 Maryborough, Wide Bay, Queensland, on Alice Street: Christian August Lindeberg, carpenter, Henriette Lindeberg, Agnes Lindeberg. On Albert Street: Johan Peterson Lindeberg, carpenter. On Bazaar Street: Charles Andrew Lindeberg, carpenter; Nellie Lindeberg

1913 Maryborough, Wide Bay, Queensland, Christian August Lindeberg etc

1919 Maryborough, Wide Bay, Queensland, Christian August Lindeberg etc

1915 Howard, Wide Bay, Queensland, Christian August Lindeberg etc

1925 Howard, Wide Bay, Queensland, on Granville: Christian August Lindeberg, carpenter, and Henriette Kerstine Lindeberg

Australia Death Index: Christian August Lindeberg died 9 Dec 1931 in Queensland. Father Jens Lorenz, Mother Anna Kerrline Pedersen

Australia Death Index: Emma Florence Lindeberg died 26 Dec 1883 in Queensland. Father Christian Auguste Lindeberg  - Mother Henriette Kerstine Jorgensen

Australia Death Index: Ruby Lilly Beatrice Lindeberg died 29 Jul 1888 in Queensland. Father Christian August Lindeberg - Mother Henrietta Jorgensen

Australia Death Index: ??Bert Vither Vennon Lindeberg died 21 Jan 1954. Father Christian August - Mother Henriette Kerstine ??Haen

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Navn:  Jørgensen, Henriette Stilling:  Pige
Alder:  19 Bestemmelsessted:  Queensland
Kontrakt nr.:  328100 Forevisningsdato:  11/23/1871
Sidste oph.sogn:  Århus Sidste oph. amt:  Århus
Sidste oph.sted:  Aarhuus Bestemmelses land:  Australien
Bestemmelses by:  ? Bestemmelses stat:  Queensland
Skibsnavn:  Indirekte
IDkode:  I7172J2313

This may be his wife emigrating from Denmark in 1871. Last parish is Aarhus.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

When looking at the BMD for Queensland I now realize that Arthur Christian is their son born in 1875, not a brother.

Eva M

[Jane C]

I didn't see that Eva - interesting!

Kandace - for clarity -

The place to look is Hoptrup Parish, which is in Haderslev Herred (the Danes liken this to a district), which is in Haderslev Amount (the Danes translate this as county).

Haderslev is also the name of a town right in this area - like New York, New York - but it is not in Hoptrup parish, so heads up on that.

Yes, all this is in "Slesvig."

Haderslev Amount would have been within the boundaries of what was once the duchy of Slesvig. Just south of there was the duchy of Holstein. From the years 1864-1920 Slesvig was under Prussian rule. An attempt was made to turn the culture away from Denmark; for example, in many cases Danish language became forbidden (as in school). Christian August Lindeberg, born about 1850, was old enough in 1864 to notice a decided change - and with him immigrating so young, it could be this change of government might have been a factor. Just a thought.

And if I've misstated something, please correct me Eva!

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Hello,

Obviously Hotrup is not the right parish of birth. You found Hotrup on his death certificate. The informant, his wife?, didn't know for certain, it seems.
Maybe you should order a copy of C.A. Lindeberg's naturalisation record which is held at the Queensland State Archives. The reference No. is: LINDEBERG C A 1884 - 1885, Vol 2, p.246. 1884 is the year of oath.

"Information given in naturalisation records can include: name; age; occupation; place of birth; date and place of naturalisation; and, number of the Oath of Allegiance. Records received from the Supreme Court registries are usually indexed by the name of the alien."

Eva M

[Kandace Lindeberg]

Thank you Jane, Eva, Inger for your help with this one.

I have located records of his ongoings since arrival in Australia on 4 March 1871 (Reichstag - departing Hamburg 19/11/1870).  Prior to this I have had little success. 

It is correct that Henrietta Kerstine Jorgensen married Christian August on 1/2/1873 in Queensland. (Henrietta is as much of a mystery to me as Christian August given her parents names were extremely common at the time.)

Additional information I have found regarding Christian August's (C.A) origins:
1.  The birth certiifcate of Arthur Christian (son) notes C.A place of birth to be Hopdroup, Denmark
2.  A Statutory Declaration on Albert Victor Vernon (son) army enlistment records states C.A was born "about 1850 at Kolding in Schleswig Holstein, Denmark and came to the British Empire about 1870; was naturalised about 1880".  He adds "My father left Schleswig Hollstein when the Prussians annexed it".
3.  I have the will for C.A in the mail from the Qld State Archives, so cross fingers this may provide some more information about his origins.

I contacted the Kolding Stadtsarkiv on the Kolding lead, but was advised that there were no records of C.A in that area prior to 1871.  They believed that Hopdroup was indeed Hoptrup (given its proximity to Kolding.  I also contacted the provisional archives for Southern Jutland and they have advised me of this forum to help me with my search.  I am new to family research, beginning my digging on the request of my grandfather who wants to learn about his family.  I appreciate any help assistance you can give me.  I will contact the Qld State Archives again for C.A's naturalisation papers (I wasnt aware they were there as they didnt appear in my catalogue search on their website).  Will advise if I find anything more.

Kandace

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Kandace,

I have looked at Albert's declaration. He says that his mother was born near Copenhagen. It is true she left from Copenhagen to go to Hamburg but her last residence was in Århus which is not near Copenhagen. She went on board the Herschel in Hamburg which arrived in Queensland in 1872. I have seen her name in a name index. The original passenger list does exist. I don't know if it contains the passengers' place of birth or just country of origin.

It may be true that A.C. left Schleswig in 1864 when Prussia took over the province. But it could be something Albert said because at the time of WW1 it was not good to be connected with Germany in Australia.

Eva

[Inger Buchard]

The Hamburg Passenger Lists are available at www.ancestry.de - free of charge this week. You'll have to search the name indexes page by page, as only the indexes from 1890 onward are listed and searchable online. How to get from the index-pages to the original passenger lists - I don't know, but it should be possible.

Earlier I looked into these original passengers' lists in a search for one of my own relatives from the Duchy Schleswig. The original passengers' list didn't quote a birth adress, only the area or the country, in my case Schleswig, but no town or parish mentioned. This of course was after 1890, and I can't know if informations are equally few before 1890, so give it a try.

I agree in the name Hoptrup, seeing what informations you have. But: the parish borders were open - he might have lived in Hoptrup only at the time of emigration, being born in a neighbouring parish. Unfortunately the confirmation list of Hoptrup are not online. This is often the fastest way to find a young adult, and mostly the name of the father is mentioned in the list, even if the boy is working on a farm some km from home. The original church books are kept at the State Archive in Aabenraa. Unfortunately I have no time to go there the next weeks, but you could ask somebody to make a look up for you.

Inger

[Kandace Lindeberg]

Ancestry.dk has passenger lists for the 'Herschel' arriving in Queensland in 1878.  Will see whether there are other sources out there which have the 1872 voyage on-line.

Will contact the State Archive in Aabenraa for a look up and see whether they can provide clues.

Thank you

[Jane C]

Here is a link about Niels Peter Jorgensen and Anne Marie Pedersen of Aarhus, immigrating to Australia in 1873.

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/DENMARK/2000-03/0954390116

Here is a baptism record for a Henriette Kirstine Jorgensen, found on Family Search:

Henriette Kirstine Jorgensen
residence: Århus, Denmark
parents: Niels Peter Jorgensen, Marie Pedersen
record title:Denmark Baptisms, 1618-1923
name:Henriette Kirstine Jorgensen
gender:Female
baptism/christening date:06 Nov 1853
baptism/christening place:DOMSOGNET, AARHUS, AARHUS, DENMARK
father's name: Niels Peter Jorgensen
mother's name: Marie Pedersen
indexing project (batch) number:C22013-8

Immigration info, the Niels Jorgensen family in Austalia:

Jrgensen, Niels Peter, Landmand, 44, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -,
Aarhus, Australien, , I7273J4106
Jrgensen, Ane Marie, Hustru, 49, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -, Aarhus,
Australien, , I7273J4107
Jrgensen, Jrgen, Barn, 14, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -, Aarhus,
Australien, , I7273J4108
Jrgensen, Mariane, Barn, 12, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -, Aarhus,
Australien, , I7273J4109
Jrgensen, Hansine, Barn, 10, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -, Aarhus,
Australien, , I7273J4110
Jrgensen, Carl, Barn, 07, Queensland, 692, 3/19/1873, , -, Aarhus,
Australien, , I7273J4111
===============
The tickits number 4106 - 4111.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Jane,

I doubt you found the right Henrietta/e K. Jørgensen as to the emigration. You said yourself that Henriette and C.A. were married on 1st Feb. 1873. The family you found arrived in Australia in July 1873
so it can't be her. I guess Kandace would have known if she emigrated with all her family.
If Kandace has got Henrietta's date of birth she may confirm that it her great-grandmother's birth. I think the one who left from Copenhagen to Hamburg 11/23/1871 and then went on the Herschel is the right one.

Eva M

[Jane C]

Yes thank you Eva - it's always nice to get feedback.

I did notice that difference in years - but Henriette is NOT listed as one of the immigrants with the Niels Peter Jorgensen family in 1873. I too think you likely found the right Henriette in the 1871 emigration notice you posted...that is why I searched in Aarhus.

For this to be Henriette's family, it would have to be that Henriette emigrated earlier, perhaps with friends or other relatives. This is what happened for my great-great-great grandparents. Two daughters immigrated to USA ca 1870, then a year later another daughter, then the next year the parents and two sons (including my great-great grandfather).

I guess one or two members of a family had to "test the waters" before everyone came!

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Sorry Jane, I didn't notice that Henrietta was not in the emigration record. Of course, she could have gone earlier and then her family followed.
Let's hear what Kandace has got to say about this.

Eva M

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Henriette Kirstine Jørgensen was born 21 August, 1853. Parents were clogmaker(?) Niels Peter Jørgensen and his wife Marie Pedersen, 29, Lange  ?     No. 207  (opslag 148 Århus Domsogn).

Eva M

[Kirsten Tatt]

Census 1860 Aarhus
Alle 5 personer i husstanden:
Folketælling: 1860     By: Århus Købstad    Herred: Hasle    Amt: Århus
Gadenavn: Fredensgade    Husnr: 1003    Husstand: 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Der er mere end en husstand i denne bygning. Se alle husstandene.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navn: Niels Peter Jørgensen    Alder: 31    Civilstand: gift
Fødested: Kjøbenh.
Stilling: Arbeidsmand Noter:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navn: Ane Marie Jørgensen    Alder: 37    Civilstand: gift
Fødested: Aarhus
Stilling: Kone Noter:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navn: Henriette Kirstine Jørgensen     Alder: 7    Civilstand: ugift
Fødested: Aarhuus
Stilling: [deres datter] Noter:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navn: Hans Peter Jørgensen    Alder: 4    Civilstand: ugift
Fødested: [Aarhuus]
Stilling: [deres søn] Noter:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Navn: Jørgen Jørgensen    Alder: 2    Civilstand: ugift
Fødested: [Aarhuus]
Stilling: [deres søn] Noter:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kirsten

[Ralph Rasmussen]

In Henriette's birth record, klodsmager might seem to be 'block' maker, but I would agree on clog maker.  The mother is '29 Aar gl.', age 29.  That seems to let the address be Studsgade 207.

mvh
-Ralph

[Kandace Lindeberg]

Thank you Jane for your link.  I did come accross that thread in my search, but counted it out due to the date of arrival not marrying up with the date which C.A and Henriette got married in Queensland and assuming it was one nuclear family.  I take on board the note that people may have travelled in 'spurts' and not as one whole nuclear family so I will have another look at this.

The ages nominated by the 1860 Census for Henriette's parents do not match with the ages prescribed for NP and Anne on the 1873 voyage.  So is it safe to assume these are not the same people and a matter of co-incidence?

On FamilySearch I did find two Henriette Kerstine Jorgensen's with the parents Niels Peter (NP) and Ann Marie, although the first record showed a birth in 24 July 1852 and a death later that year.  The other record on Family Search is the DOB you provide Eva, - 21 August 1853.  Both registered in Domsognet, Aarhus.  Is it possible NP and Ann named their 2nd daughter after their earlier one, or is this again a co-incidence?

[Eva Morfiadakis]

The birth in 1852 is on image 131 Aarhus domsogn. It seems to be the same parents. Although I wonder about mother's age. It's 29 in 1852 as in 1853. Now I believe that father's profession is klodsmager "block maker". The address is not the same as in 1853, I think.

It wasn't uncommon to give the next child the same name as the child that had passed away.

Eva

[Eva Morfiadakis]

JORGENSEN Niels Peter Southern 1915/385 742766 SCT/P962 Z1790
JORGENSEN Peter Southern 1907/244 742455 SCT/P652 Z1717

These two wills are in the State Archives of Queensland. I guess a will would contain the names of the deceased living children.

Death index:
1915/C3923 Niels Peter Jorgensen  - Jorgen Matheson Jorgensen - ** born Denmark aged 71 years

1907/C341 Peter Jorgensen  - Neils Christian Jorgensen Annie Elizabeth Petersen

In 1873 the Niels P Jørgensen who emigrated was 44 years old, born around 1829. In 1915 he would have been around 86. If the age refers to the deceased the former is rules out.

The latter could have dropped his first name Niels to call himself Peter only. ??

I don't know if it is possible to find N.P's birth. Probably not so easy since he was born in Copenhagen.  My suggestion is to contact the person in Jane's link and ask him if he has obtained a copy of the will and ask him what it says.

Eva M

[Jane C]

Thanks to you guys for what you found - it was exciting to come and read it! Fabulous to have that 1860 census.

Here is a comparison of Jorgensen ages during the 1873 voyage to Australia  with the Jorgensens in the 1860 Aarhus census

Looks to me like the Australian family is a perfect fit for the one in Aarhus - if my math is right??? Remember that a census day/month and the travel day/month can make a difference in someone's age that day.

Jrgensen, Niels Peter, 44 [born about 1829] - the 1860 census Niels is 31 [born about 1829]
Jrgensen, Ane Marie, 49 [born about 1824] - 1860 Ane Marie is 37 [born about 1823]
Jrgensen, Jrgen, 14 [born about 1859] - 1860 Jorgen is 2 [born about 1858]
Jrgensen, Mariane, 12 [born about 1861] - not in 1860 census because she's not born yet
Jrgensen, Hansine, 10 [born about 1873] - ditto
Jrgensen, Carl, 07 [born about 1876] - ditto

The poster who provided this list of immigrants (link above) said: "As they all have the same contract# - 692 - it is almost certain they belong to the same family."

ALSO - Henriette in Aarhus has a brother Hans PETER age 4 in 1860.
Could he have immigrated separately from his parents, and be the Peter Eva found?

[Eva Morfiadakis]

Jane,

I doubt the Niels Peter Jorgensen who died in 1915 is the one who emigrated. The age 71 probably relates to the deceased. His age has been written instead of his mother's name since this was probably unknown. He is 15 years too young.


Eva M

[Jane C]

I agree!
As to that death record, I checked and it is Niels who died and Jorgen Matheson Jorgensen is the father, per Ancestry.

Maybe that Niels is this man, noted in the RootsWeb link above as immigrating to Australia in 1873:
Jørgensen, Niels Peter, Tjenestekarl, 17, Queensland, 3969, 5/30/1873, , -,
Ullerslev, Nakskov, Australien, , I7374J1723

Kandace - another thought about the ages of the people immigrating in 1873 matching with the 1860 census in Aarhus - Ii looked only at the people with the same contract #. The rest of the Jorgensens on that ship are not shown to be in the same nuclear family. Make sense?

About Peter or Hans Peter - looks like there are several of these names in Australia and it doesn't make sense to try to sort them out yet (first we want to be sure the Aarhus family is the right family for "our" Henriete.

[Eva Morfiadakis]

As I see it only a will in Australia would link Henrietta Jørgensen/Lindeberg to the Jørgensen family. Unfortunately there are no departure records for Aarhus Domsogn. There are some for Vor Frue but she is not there as she lived in the Domsogn.
Perhaps Henrietta and A.C. and the Jørgensens were neighbours which may indicate they were related. I don't know if there are church records in Australia for christenings if you should look for the witnesses at the christenings of Henrietta's children if they are from the Jørgensen family.

A remark Jane, it should 1863 and 1866 for the two youngest children.  Jørgen J. was born on 13 Oct. 1858 (Vor Frue - image 17 (1858-1864) and he was confirmed in 1872 (image 315 - Aarhus Domsogn (1868-1872). At the time the family was living at Kystvejen.
I can't find the confirmation of Hans Peter J. which should have taken place 1869-1870 and I can't find him dead either.

Eva M

[Jane C]

Ha ha - oops! I put Carl immigrating three years before he was born. Thanks Eva!

About linking the families - a will is not the only way! For example, an obituary for Henriette could exist, or an obituary for any one from that 1873 immigrating Jorgensen family (obituaries often list other family members).

Yes maybe the link will never be found - but certainly too soon to give up on that. 

[Eva Morfiadakis]

I have been looking for an obituary for Henrietta L. who died in 1932. So far I haven't been successful.

I found that Niels Peter Jorgensen who died in 1915 in Back Plains, near Clifton, Darling Downs, was married to Maren Kirstine J. who was his sole heir.

Eva M