Birth Record

[Julia Graham]

Hello. I would really like some help with finding more information on my 4x great-grandfather, Johan Heinrich Frobøs.

I have managed to find him in the following records:

Marriage of Johan Hinrich Frobøs to Ana Dorothea Petersen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21583748#379935,73888736 #62

(I think the Johan in this marriage record may be the same Johan who later had children with my 4x great-grandmother, Juliane Marie Terkelsen).

Father to Magdalene Amalie Frobøsse (my 3x great-grandmother)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=380081#380081,73916873 #24

1840 Census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSLH-192M-X?i=438&cc=2778651&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQG6P-B1S8

(apologies for the FamilySearch link — I was having difficulty trying to find the census record on Arkivalieronline).

Johan's death
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=380112#380112,73921798 #70

I would really like to find a birth record for Johan and to also find out if he had any siblings. Johan's surname sounds like it may be German, so I am wondering if he was actually born in Germany and not in Denmark?

Thanks again in advance, for your help.

[Svend Aage Mikkelsen]

Hello

In the mariage record it says he is from Lütjenburg (a place east of Kiel) in Holsten (Germany), born January 30 1801. Sankt Petri is a german church in Copenhagen

Svend Aage
6200

[Julia Graham]

Oh! Fantastic — thanks so much, Svend!

Can you see anything in the birth record of Magdalene Amalie Frobøsse that confirms the Johan who married Ana is also the father of Magdalene (for example, mention of Johan's birth place, etc.)?

[Svend Aage Mikkelsen]

Hello

Nothing is mentioned that confirms it is the same person. Juliane and Johan is not married, his occopation is af kind of officer at 2. ?regiment. At his death he is corporal an unmarried.

Svend Aage
6200

[Julia Graham]

Thanks again for your help, Svend.

[Inger Toudal]

At the marriage 1823, Johan Hinrich Frobös is Schneidergeselle 'journeyman tailor'.

At Magdalene Amalia's birth 1829, Johan Heinrich Frobøs is Underofficer 'non-commissioned officer' [corporal or sergeant] at 2. Livregiment.

At his death 1843, Johan Heinrich Frohbøse is unmarried and corporal at 3. Linie Infanteri-Bataillon.

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

[Julia Graham]

Thanks, Inger. Can you think of any ways I could verify whether the Johan Hinrich Frobös who married Ana Dorothea Petersen is the same person who had a child with Juliane Marie Terkelsen? There appears to be a one year age difference between Johan Hinrich Frobös and Johan Heinrich Frobøs / Frohbøse in the 1840 census and 1843 death register. I'm not quite sure where else to look to investigate my theories!

[Inger Toudal]

Navn:   Johan Froløse??
Alder:   40   Civilstand:   Ugift
Erhverv:   Underofficeer
Kildehenvisning:   side 55
Antal familier/hus:   1
Kommentarer:   efternavnet er usikkert, sikkert er Fr...se og der er ca. 7 bogstaver   
Kilde:    FT-1840   Husstands-/familienr:   59
Matr.nr/adresse:   Sølvgaden No. 421 3. Etage
Sogn:    Københavns Guvernement   Herred:    København (Staden)
Amt:    København   Stednavn:    2den* Regiments Grend. Comp.   *) Liv
Indtastningsnr:    D2986   Løbenr.:    1390

*) 2 Liv Regiments Grend.Comp.

1840 Census, Copenhagen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=6547#6547,154092

Maybe info could be found in military records?

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[Lisa Petersen]

Julia, 

You could keep going as you have, collecting information about all these people and hope to build a better picture of their lives.  What happened to the marriage in 1823?  Were there children?  Did the wife die before J.H.F. had the daughter with J.M.T.?  Do you have a confirmation record for Magdalene Amalie (it might say her father is deceased). 

I have had good luck with court records in my ancestor's villages in Jutland, finding unmarried mothers suing for child support and one case where the wife and children were abandoned and the husband had a girlfriend in Copenhagen.  Court records are usually not indexed, so for you to look for J.M.T. suing for child support, or perhaps a divorce from the first wife, would take a huge amount of time and effort.  Maybe keep it in mind and try it some day in the future.

Meanwhile, I looked in the marriages index for Garnison's sogn and found 2 women with the name Frobøse.  I don't know if they are related to J.H.F. or not.  They were born about 1815 and 1813, respectively.

the index, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17256660#211789,40013849

and the marriages in the kontraministerialbog

1841, #164, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618415#380104,73920151
1843, #132, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618415#380104,73920210

the same in the hovedministerialbog, with less information

1841, #159, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17223806#203767,38651930
1843, #130, https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17223806#203767,38651961

I hope this helps a little.

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

[Julia Graham]

Hi Lisa — some great ideas there, thank you!

I have not been able to find any children from Johan's first marriage or what happened to Ana Dorothea Petersen, however, I will keep on searching!

Magdalene Amalie was fostered by the time of her confirmation in 1845, so the name of her foster father is recorded (Søren Madsen).

Thanks again for some ideas of where to look next ... I will investigate the marriages you found and see if they are related in any way. 

[Julia Graham]

Maybe info could be found in military records?

That sounds like a good next step in the research process — thank you!

[Inger Toudal]

Military records: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/collection/theme/22

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/other/other-collection/81

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/other/other-collection/70

This must be him:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17022111#131692,21170769

- cannot find the corresponding Stambog at AO.

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17022111#131692,21170764

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913498#472764,84498583 - No 9

- born in Kiel in 1800, profession: tailor (Skræder), entered service 2 Mar. 1827 as non-commisioned officer at 2nd Livregiment,
transferred from 2nd Livregiment 1 Jul. 1842, died 14 Mar. 1843 at Garnisons Hospital (according to the churchbook cause of
death was Tæring 'consumption').

https://www.fredericiashistorie.dk/html/fredericia/artikler/regimenter.html

It could very well be him who married in 1823:
Junggeselle Johan Hinrich Frobös, Schneidergeselle aus Lütjenburg in Holstein, 4 Meilen von Kiel, geb: d. 30 Jan: 1801; ...

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCtjenburg

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile#German

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[Inger Toudal]

Maybe you can find the baptism of Johan Heinrich Frobös at FamilySearch?

- or at archion.de:

https://www.archion.de/en/browse/?no_cache=1

- Norddeutschland: Landeskirchliches Archiv der Evang.-Luth. Kirche
- Kirchenkreis Plön-Segeberg
- Lütjenburg
- Taufen 1763-1802

Norddeutschland: Landeskirchliches Archiv der Evang.-Luth. Kirche
- Kirchenkreis Altholstein
- several parishes in Kiel

https://www.archion.de/en/price-list/#c2326

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[Julia Graham]

Inger, as always, your help has exceeded anything I could ever have imagined. Thank you for the time you have spent researching on my behalf ... you have managed to find more about Johan in a few hours than I have in a few weeks! Thank you also for those links to the military records on Arkivalieronline — I often have trouble finding my way around the website (especially since the change of layout), so it's great to now have direct links to each of the collections (I have bookmarked these on my computer).

Your research skills are very much appreciated and it was so kind of you to add those extra links in your previous message, too — I have found it really interesting learning more about the different military regiments, German miles, and Lütjenburg — you really are a star!

[Lisa Petersen]

J.M.T. and J.H.F. had another child in 1833 and they were still not married.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn595/churchlisting141567/opslag15702423

This may be Anna Dorothea Petersen on the 1840 Census

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4743898

Have you used danishfamilysearch.com?  It is a database of census transcriptions and indexes to some church records (with links to images).  You can search the whole country for Frobøse (try various spellings and use % wildcard, e.g. Frohb%), or specify København amt if you want to limit to one area.  Always find the original census or church records on AO or FS or your favorite site when danishfamilysearch gives you results.

A short line drawn above a letter means double letter:  Ana with a line over the n = Anna.

Lisa Petersen

[Inger Toudal]

København, København (Staden), , , Kasernen for den kongelige livgarde til hest no 245 ved Frederiksholm Canal, 23, FT-1840, D2989
Navn:     Alder:     Status:     Stilling i familien:     Erhverv: 
Johane Marie Torkildsen*     35     Ugift            Sygevarterske for Garden      *) Tærkildsen   
Magdalene Amalia Torkildsen*     11     Ugift            Hendes uægte datter       
Avilda Scharlotte     7     Ugift            Hendes uægte datter 

- 1840 Census: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=6547#6547,154304 - bottom
_________________________________________________________________________________

I don't know if Johan Heinrich Frobös and Anna Dorothea Petersen were ever formally divorced.
They were judicially separated 13 Feb. 1826.

Application from Skrædersvend J.H.F. 16 Sep. 1825:
https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418064

https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418365

https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418366

https://kbharkiv.dk/brug-samlingerne/kilder-paa-nettet/kilder-om-vielser-og-aegteskab/separation-og-skilsmisse/

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[Julia Graham]

J.M.T. and J.H.F. had another child in 1833 and they were still not married.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn595/churchlisting141567/opslag15702423

This may be Anna Dorothea Petersen on the 1840 Census

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4743898

Have you used danishfamilysearch.com?  It is a database of census transcriptions and indexes to some church records (with links to images).  You can search the whole country for Frobøse (try various spellings and use % wildcard, e.g. Frohb%), or specify København amt if you want to limit to one area.  Always find the original census or church records on AO or FS or your favorite site when danishfamilysearch gives you results.

A short line drawn above a letter means double letter:  Ana with a line over the n = Anna.

Lisa Petersen

Thanks Lisa!  Yes, I was aware Johan and Juliane had another daughter. I hadn't found Ana on the 1840 census though  — it looks like you found her! Interesting how Ana has been recorded as a widow despite Johan still be alive at that time. Am I correct that Ana was a servant for a baroness at the time of the census (I don't always trust the translations I look up)!

I do use Danish Family Search quite a bit, but obviously my searching skills need a bit more practice! Good idea about the wildcards.

I have always wondered about the lines drawn over some letters — thanks for explaining that to me. 

[Julia Graham]

København, København (Staden), , , Kasernen for den kongelige livgarde til hest no 245 ved Frederiksholm Canal, 23, FT-1840, D2989
Navn:     Alder:     Status:     Stilling i familien:     Erhverv: 
Johane Marie Torkildsen*     35     Ugift            Sygevarterske for Garden      *) Tærkildsen   
Magdalene Amalia Torkildsen*     11     Ugift            Hendes uægte datter       
Avilda Scharlotte     7     Ugift            Hendes uægte datter 

- 1840 Census: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=6547#6547,154304 - bottom
_________________________________________________________________________________

I don't know if Johan Heinrich Frobös and Anna Dorothea Petersen were ever formally divorced.
They were judicially separated 13 Feb. 1826.

Application from Skrædersvend J.H.F. 16 Sep. 1825:
https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418064

https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418365

https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=14&item=418366

https://kbharkiv.dk/brug-samlingerne/kilder-paa-nettet/kilder-om-vielser-og-aegteskab/separation-og-skilsmisse/

Venlig hilsen
Inger

Great find, Inger (as always)!

I have looked up Juliane's occupation, Sygevarterske for Garden, and the translation appears to be 'nurse for garden' — I haven't heard of this phrase before. Would a Sygevarterske for Garden be similar to a gardener?

Thanks for all the extra information on Johan and Anna's separation — what a find! On Johan's death record, he is recorded as ugift — I always thought this meant never married, but does it have another meaning (or perhaps he didn't tell the truth about his marital status when he was admitted to hospital)?

[Inger Toudal]

J.H.F. applied for separation from A.D.P. in 1825, and the couple was judicially separated in 1826.

In order to remarry, J.H.F. would have to get divorced from A.D.P. and furthermore,
after he entered the army, get permission to marry from the military authorities.

Sygevarterske for Garden 'nursing aide for the [Horse] Guards'

ugift 'single, unmarried'

- but maybe the army wasn't aware that J.H.F. had been married before he started his military career.

He's also registered as ugift in the 1840 Census.

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[Julia Graham]

Thanks for clarifying, Inger.