Forfatter Emne: Decendents of Signe Jacobine Monrad Hermansen  (Læst 969 gange)

Julia Graham

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Decendents of Signe Jacobine Monrad Hermansen
« Dato: 04 Jul 2022 - 01:30 »
I am looking for any living descendants of Signe Jacobine Monrad Hermansen (born 15 October 1875, Skanderborg).

Signe married Jens Peder Hansen Tjørnlund on 12 April 1896 in Viborg.

As far as I am aware, they only had one child: Anna Jensine Catrine Tjørnlund (born 21 April 1896, Viborg).

I am hoping any living descendants may have done a DNA test which would help me with my genealogy research. You are welcome to contact me privately if you prefer.

Thanks  :)
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Britta Hansen

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« Svar #1 Dato: 04 Jul 2022 - 08:35 »
The name of the daughter is
Alma Jensine Katrine Hansen Tjørnlund *21. April 1896 - Serup, Hids, Viborg

Svend Rasmus Holst + Alma Jensine living in Copenhagen

A daughter Solbjerg Parish. + Vor Frelser Parish
« Senest redigeret: 04 Jul 2022 - 08:44 af Britta Hansen »
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Britta Hansen

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Bente Wanning

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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #3 Dato: 04 Jul 2022 - 12:00 »
The family in the 1916 Census, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid19709411

- see Original Source

Surname was changed from Hansen to Tjørnlund in 1909.

The family living in Copenhagen: https://kbharkiv.dk/permalink/post/17-425551

1901 Census: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid21361761

1906 Census: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid22323059

Alma's mother died in 1946: https://dodsregister.dk/Infopage.aspx?id=TlpCvGEtvbwhVrKCgX3uTQ==

Her father died in 1950: https://dodsregister.dk/Infopage.aspx?id=ha4fzk1JZw5DPcQLRFoGbQ==

Her husband Svend Rasmus Holst died in 1956: https://dodsregister.dk/Infopage.aspx?id=MvkJwznAREMgMTIi4FHFNg==

1940 Census: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=224000#224000,42203853 - see page 15

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Inger Toudal
« Senest redigeret: 04 Jul 2022 - 12:11 af Inger Toudal »

Julia Graham

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« Svar #4 Dato: 07 Jul 2022 - 08:25 »
Thank you everyone for this information — apologies for my delayed reply — I thought I had subscribed to this post so I would get alerts when there were replies, but obviously I hadn't!

I will have a good look through the information this evening and get back to you if I have any further questions.

Thanks again!  :)
Venlig hilsen, Julia

New Zealand

Julia Graham

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« Svar #5 Dato: 07 Jul 2022 - 09:43 »
The name of the daughter is
Alma Jensine Katrine Hansen Tjørnlund *21. April 1896 - Serup, Hids, Viborg

Svend Rasmus Holst + Alma Jensine living in Copenhagen

A daughter Solbjerg Parish. + Vor Frelser Parish

This is excellent — thanks so much, Britta! Do you know why Nina would have her birth recorded at two different parishes?
« Senest redigeret: 07 Jul 2022 - 09:54 af JuliaH »
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Julia Graham

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« Svar #6 Dato: 07 Jul 2022 - 09:52 »
Alma Jensine marriage no 18

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17119859#158892,26698961

Thanks for this, Bente (and for pointing out they are number 18 on the list ... I was having trouble reading all the names)! Could you please confirm the date of Signe and Jens marriage? Does the record say 17 March 1922, Frelsers Parish, Copenhagen?
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Julia Graham

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« Svar #7 Dato: 07 Jul 2022 - 10:09 »

Surname was changed from Hansen to Tjørnlund in 1909.


Wow! That's a LOT of research! Many thanks, Inger.  :)

Would it be unusual for a man to change his surname at 35 years of age? It looks like there was some discrepancy as to the spelling of the surname of their daughter, Alma, too (see the link provided by Britta). Alma's surname was originally written as Hansen then crossed out and changed to Tjørnlund???xxx
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Rebecca Johnson

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« Svar #8 Dato: 08 Jul 2022 - 05:03 »

Surname was changed from Hansen to Tjørnlund in 1909.


Wow! That's a LOT of research! Many thanks, Inger.  :)

Would it be unusual for a man to change his surname at 35 years of age? It looks like there was some discrepancy as to the spelling of the surname of their daughter, Alma, too (see the link provided by Britta). Alma's surname was originally written as Hansen then crossed out and changed to Tjørnlund???xxx

Inger is my Danish genealogy hero.  ;D

As for name changes, yes, it was not unusual.  My grandfather was 26 when he changed his name in Canada from Åge Rosenlund-Jensen to Arthur Rosenland and his Danish birth record notes this name change in Canada.

She is found on the 1880 Census here living with relatives?  Perhaps these are her grandparents?

Year:   FT-1880   Source reference:   Kort 963,Lb.1   
Parish:   Almind   District:   Lysgaard
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Almind
Source entry No:   C8203   Record No.:   6

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Jacob Monrad     60     Gift     Husfader, Skolelærer og Kirkesangerr          Veirum Sogn, Viborg Amt 
Jensine Jensen     53     Gift     hans Kone          Aalborg 
Emil Theodor Monrad     21     Ugift     Deres Barn          Her i Sognet 
Alma Margrethe Monrad     29     Gift     Deres Barn          Ullitz Sogn, Aalborg Amt 
Kirstine Monrad     28     Ugift     Deres Barn          Ullitz Sogn, Aalborg Amt 
Signe Hermansen     4     Ugift     Plejebarn          Them Sogn, Skanderborg Amt 
Ingeborg Jensen     1     Ugift     Plejebarn          Sønderup S. Aalborg Amt
« Senest redigeret: 08 Jul 2022 - 05:32 af Rebecca Johnson »

Julia Graham

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« Svar #9 Dato: 08 Jul 2022 - 07:30 »

Inger is my Danish genealogy hero.  ;D


Hahaha! It's always nice to have someone who can find their way around Danish records!  :)

I understand many Danes anglicised their names when they immigrated to English-speaking countries, but I was curious about why a male (who remained within Denmark), would drop his surname and choose to go by his middle name?

Thanks for the 1880 census info — I was aware that Signe was living with her mother and grandparents at that time. She seems to have disappeared from the 1890 and 1911 census, but perhaps that's due to my beginner's researching skills!
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Bente Wanning

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« Svar #10 Dato: 08 Jul 2022 - 09:16 »
Frelser parish, København 17. March 1922
no 18

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17119859#158892,26698961 

The two fathers are best men.
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Julia Graham

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« Svar #11 Dato: 08 Jul 2022 - 09:46 »
The two fathers are best men.

Thanks, Bente. Could you please tell me which part of the marriage document shows the fathers are the best men? Is it written under the groom's name? Sorry, I have a lot of trouble understanding what is written on many of the documents (and Google Translate is only as good as the information I put into it)!  ;D
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Inger Toudal

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« Svar #12 Dato: 09 Jul 2022 - 18:29 »
Concerning best men, please refer to:

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Denmark_Genealogy - Church Records - 3.3. Marriages

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Denmark_Parish_Register_Headings#Marriages

- Forlovernes fulde Navn, Stilling og Bopæl.
__________________________________________________________________________________

After 1904, when a new law concerning surnames was approved in Denmark, people were encouraged
to change surnames ending in -sen to more individual surnames.

Tjørnlund was not Jens Peder Hansen's middle name: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=149463&side=15 - No 3

- see remarks on right page: ... Tjørnlund instead of Hansen ...

JPH was born in the village of Tjørnelunde in Finderup parish, Holbæk county.

When the father in a family changed his surname, the surname of wife and children also changed.
______________________________________________________________________________

It seems that Alma had no siblings, and Alma's daughter also seems to be the only child of hers.

The daughter was born at a maternity home in Solbjerg parish and baptized in Vor Frelser's parish, the home parish of the family.

Venlig hilsen
Inger
« Senest redigeret: 09 Jul 2022 - 18:45 af Inger Toudal »

Rebecca Johnson

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« Svar #13 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 00:35 »
Citér

Thanks for the 1880 census info — I was aware that Signe was living with her mother and grandparents at that time. She seems to have disappeared from the 1890 and 1911 census, but perhaps that's due to my beginner's researching skills!

I think this must be her.  Between 1874-1876 there is only on Signe Hermandsen born in Them, Skanderborg and it is your Signe.  I am not clear why she is listed as their child but this could simply be a mistake made by the recorder particularly since her parents lived until 1946 and 1950.

Year:   FT-1890   Source reference:   Serup   
Birth place:   Tem [ Them ]   
Parish:   Serup   District:   Hids
Shire:   Viborg   Place name:   Serup
Source entry No:   C9875   Record No.:   86

All members of the household
Name:                             Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Niels Andersen                      54     Gift     Husfader     Landmand , Husejer     Aarhus 
Mina Andersen                      39     Gift     Husmoder          Wits ??? 
Signe Hermandsen      14     Ugift     Barn          Tem [ Them ] 
Ditlev Andersen              5     Ugift     Barn          Fiskbæk 
Anna Andersen              3     Ugift     Barn          Ørum 
Christen Christensen      42     Gift     Husfader     Husmand Landbrug     Veierlev , Randers Amt 
Bodil Marie Christiane Jensen     33     Gift     Husmoder          Hinge , Viborg Amt 
Anders Nielsen                     32     Gift     Husfader     Lærer     Eltang , Kolding 
Marie Nielsen født Bul     32     Gift     Hustru     Madmoder     Eltang , Kolding 
Niels Nielsen                     8     Ugift     Barn          Leierskov 
Simon Nielsen                     7     Ugift     Barn          Leierskov 
Maren Nielsen                    4     Ugift     Barn          Leierskov 
Aage Nielsen                    Under et aar     Ugift     Barn          Leierskov 
Mete Marie Kjerstine Pedersen     17     Ugift     Tjenstepige     Medhjælper     Serup , Viborg A.

Source document can be found here: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid12691689

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #14 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 01:18 »
Signe Hermansen is living with her mother Alma and stepfather Niels Andersen in 1890.

There's a mistake in the indexed census: Alma (not Mina) Andersen, born in Ulits.

Another mistake: Niels Andersen, born in Aarslev.

Signe's confirmation 13 Apr. 1890: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=168651&side=63 - No 1

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Inger
« Senest redigeret: 10 Jul 2022 - 01:31 af Inger Toudal »

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #15 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 02:22 »
1911 Census, Suensongade 2, Copenhagen: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=65836&side=60

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Inger

Julia Graham

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« Svar #16 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 03:00 »

After 1904, when a new law concerning surnames was approved in Denmark, people were encouraged
to change surnames ending in -sen to more individual surnames.

JPH was born in the village of Tjørnelunde in Finderup parish, Holbæk county.

When the father in a family changed his surname, the surname of wife and children also changed.


That's so interesting! Thanks for that little piece of history, Inger.  :)
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Julia Graham

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« Svar #17 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 03:04 »

I think this must be her.

How did you manage to find her, Rebecca?! I don't know how many hours I have spent on Danish Family Search looking for that census info and haven't been able to find it!!  :o
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Julia Graham

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« Svar #18 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 03:08 »
1911 Census, Suensongade 2, Copenhagen: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=65836&side=60

Thank you once again, Inger — I can see why Rebecca refers to you as her Danish genealogy hero!!

I was not aware of the ao.salldata.dk website you use — I might give it a go and see if I can be as good a detective as you are!
Venlig hilsen, Julia

New Zealand

Rebecca Johnson

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« Svar #19 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 06:10 »
Citér

How did you manage to find her, Rebecca?! I don't know how many hours I have spent on Danish Family Search looking for that census info and haven't been able to find it!!  :o

Hi Julia,

I literally used a wildcard (ie: %) on DDD and went through each of the likely counties.  At first I found her and discounted it because it said she was their daughter but when I looked closely at it again I realised it must be a mistake that they listed her a "barn."  I also did not put two and two together that Mina was her mother.

DDD here: https://ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp?sit=2

I used:
County = Viborg

Name contains = Si%ne (sometimes the name Signe is transcribed at Sine.  I did not include a surname or patronymic in case she was Monrad or Hermansen)

Year of birth (calculated): 1875
Interval: +/- 2 years
Census year = 1890

I could not find her easily in 1911 because København is not yet transcribed and so not yet searchable on DDD.

Inger Toudal

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« Svar #20 Dato: 10 Jul 2022 - 23:45 »
This is how I read the 1890 Census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid12691689 - Original Source:

Viborg, Hids, Serup, Serup, , 6, FT-1890, C9875
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birthplace:
Niels Andersen     54     Gift      Husfader      Landmand, Husejer      Aarslev   
Alma Andersen     39     Gift      Husmoder            Ulits   
Signe Hermansen     14     Ugift      Barn            Tem
 
Ditlev Andersen     5     Ugift      Barn            Fiskbæk 
Anna Andersen     3     Ugift      Barn            Ørum 

Venlig hilsen
Inger
« Senest redigeret: 10 Jul 2022 - 23:47 af Inger Toudal »

Julia Graham

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« Svar #21 Dato: 11 Jul 2022 - 00:42 »

I literally used a wildcard (ie: %) on DDD and went through each of the likely counties.

DDD here: https://ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp?sit=2

I used:
County = Viborg

Name contains = Si%ne (sometimes the name Signe is transcribed at Sine.  I did not include a surname or patronymic in case she was Monrad or Hermansen)

Year of birth (calculated): 1875
Interval: +/- 2 years
Census year = 1890


SUCCESS! Thanks so much for simplifying the process for me, Rebecca — I think I was actually adding too much information to my searches rather than using wildcards and excluding surnames. I will try be a little less specific with my searches from here on in.  ;D
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Julia Graham

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« Svar #22 Dato: 11 Jul 2022 - 00:47 »

This is how I read the 1890 Census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid12691689 - Original Source:


Thanks, Inger. I often use the Danish Family Search website but I'm not always successful with my searches (but I now know why, thanks to Rebecca's post)! I've got so much to learn!  ;D
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Rebecca Johnson

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« Svar #23 Dato: 11 Jul 2022 - 10:58 »
Citér

SUCCESS! Thanks so much for simplifying the process for me, Rebecca — I think I was actually adding too much information to my searches rather than using wildcards and excluding surnames. I will try be a little less specific with my searches from here on in.  ;D

Oh, I am glad that worked.  I find using the '%' wildcard on DDD to be a godsend.  Particularly as patronymics were being phased out and females were sometimes 'datter' and sometime 'sen.'  So I just put Niels% or Peders% to capture them that way.  Then, once I find them on DDD I go looking on DanishFamilySearch.

And, since I have found out the hard way, if you cannot find your primary person try looking for a family member instead because even using the '%' wildcard does not capture transcription errors that made their way to DDD.

Obviously if you know for sure which Parish a person was living in you would add that as a search criteria.
« Senest redigeret: 11 Jul 2022 - 11:22 af Rebecca Johnson »

Julia Graham

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« Svar #24 Dato: 12 Jul 2022 - 00:51 »
Hey Rebecca, Inger may be the Danish genealogy hero, but you're my DDD user-guide hero!  ;D
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Rebecca Johnson

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« Svar #25 Dato: 16 Jul 2022 - 23:32 »
Hey Rebecca, Inger may be the Danish genealogy hero, but you're my DDD user-guide hero!  ;D

Haha!  Thanks!  :D

It is always good to pass along information so that others do not bang their heads against the wall like I have at times.

Julia Graham

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« Svar #26 Dato: 16 Sep 2022 - 09:26 »
I’m still on the hunt for Signe’s descendants … in particular, Nina Annilise Holst.

Nina was born 23 November 1923 (Solbjerg Parish, Sokkelund, Copenhagen).

The most recent record she is in is the 1940 census:

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=224000#224000,42203867

After that, I can’t find her anywhere. Are there any super genealogy detectives available who can find out if Nina got married, had children, or when she died?

Also, I’m having difficulty finding information on when Nina’s mother, Alma Jensine Katrine Holst (født Tjørnlund) died. I’m wondering if they both emigrated somewhere together (but I can’t find them on any emigration lists, either)!

Many thanks for your help, once again.
Venlig hilsen, Julia

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Britta Hansen

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« Svar #27 Dato: 16 Sep 2022 - 10:42 »
Alma Jensine sold the house at Zinniavej 11 in 1958 - Property court records(Tinglysning)

Her address was Amager Landevej 149, 2.th. (looks like a rented apartment) item #3
- -
The enquiry made at borger.dk (The Public Personal Register estab. april 1968) did not return any
data (date of death and/or address) on Nina Annilise.



« Senest redigeret: 16 Sep 2022 - 10:56 af Britta Hansen »
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Britta Hansen

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Julia Graham

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« Svar #28 Dato: 16 Sep 2022 - 12:32 »
Thanks so much for persisting with this, Britta!

In the first set of property court records, is the date next to Alma’s name (1930) the year she purchased the house? I looked up a translation for the word lyst, but it came back as bright (which doesn’t make much sense)!

Also, what makes you think the second property was a rented apartment? Just curious because I am trying to learn / understand as much as I can about each of the records.

Thanks again for your help (and the enquiry you made at borger.dk).  :)
Venlig hilsen, Julia

New Zealand