nacimiento

Startet af Gabriela, 18 Jan 2021 - 01:27

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Gabriela

Dear forum I am looking for the birth information of Elsebeth Jorgensen, parents Jorge Jorgensen and Kirsten Jorgensen, around 1860-1864, probably they were from Odense.
Also her marriage that could happen in Odense or in Copenhaggen around 1888-1891.
Thank you.

Ulla Karin Alsvold


Britta Hansen

Gabriela,

You should reveal futher details about Elsebeth: spouse, child/children and possible siblings. Anything would help us in finding the right persons.
Did she stay in Denmark or did she (and her family) leave DK?
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Ulla Karin Alsvold

If you use the information that Jorgen is born June 20 1867 and look for him in https://www.familysearch.org/ you will find his parents and his wife and children.
They was married in 1896 in Copenhagen


Ulla Karin

Britta Hansen

#4
Citat fra: Ulla Karin Alsvold Dato 18 Jan 2021 - 12:06
....that Jorgen is born June 20 1867 .....

Ulla Karin

I read that the daughter was born 1860-1864
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Ulla Karin Alsvold

I believed that  she ment Jörgen and Kisrstine.

There are a Elsebet Jörgensen  born 1867 in Odense married to an oberstlöjtnat  Johannes Jörgensen born 1863 in Slesvig  in Politiets registerblade, They had a son Vagn born in 1903.

You can find theme at danish family search https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid19663583


Ulla karin

Inger Toudal

#6
It could be Nicoline Kirstine Elsebeth Johansen born 25 Feb. 1862 in Odense:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/churchbook/sogn868/churchlisting137882/opslag15031647

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21502468#351559,69909734

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21477078#351246,69887899 - No 30

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22062253#457726,81738476 - No 30

Elsebeth was baptized in Vissenbjerg, close to Odense. She had her surname changed to Jørgensen in 1887.

Her mother was Kirsten Thomsen, 23 years old, the alleged father Johan Henrik Christiansen.
Kirsten is the daughter of Thomas Hansen in Vissenbjerg.

Kirstine Thomsen, 30 y, daughter of Thomas Hansen in Vissenbjerg, married Jørgen Jørgensen, 40 y, 27 Jun. 1869 in Odense:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17129128#174308,29320059 - right page

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21477082#351249,69888656 - No 19

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22062253#457731,81739221 - No 19

Elsebeth in 1885 Census, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid15345451

- probably with her mother, widow  Kirsten Jørgensen

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal
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Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal

#7
København, København (Staden), Holmens Kanal, Gammelholm Kvarter, 250, 30, FT-1880, D3800
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birthplace:
Kirstine Jørgensen, [f. Thomsen]     40     Enke            Dameskrædder      Vissenbjerg Sogn, Odense Amt 
Jacobine Kirstine Elisabeth Jørgensen     17     Ugift            Hendes datter      Odense 
Gertha Christine Jørgensen     14     Ugift            Hendes datter      Odense 

København, København (Staden), Holmens Kanal (Lige numre), Kjøbenhavn Øster Kvarter, Holmens Kanal 30, matr. 250 Forhus 4.Sal, 5, FT-1885
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     Birthplace:
Peer Hansen     68     Gift            Arbeidsmand      Falster 
Kirsten Jørgensen     44     Enke            Dameskræderinde      Vissenberg 
Nikoline Kirstine Elisabeth Jørgensen     22     Ugift            Dameskræderinde      Odense

Venlig hilsen
Inger
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Inger Toudal

#8
In May 1887 Elsebeth is still living with her mother: https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=2&item=5438922

In Nov. 1887 she has left home: https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=2&item=5438872

https://kbharkiv.dk/permalink/post/17-1567564

1890 Census, Holmens Kanal 26: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=60199#60199,12247701

- widow Kirsten Jørgensen, née Tomsen, born in Vissenbjerg.

Kirsten Thomassen was born 13 Dec. 1839:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21835700#458375,81766668 - No 43

1901 Census, Holmens Kanal 26: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=24413#24413,2807719

- Kirsten Jørgensen took residence in Copenhagen 9 Apr. 1874. She was married 1861(!), her husband died 1874,
she has 1 living child and 1 deceased child.

1880 Census, Holmens Kanal 30: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=57693#57693,12088816

- married 1862(!), 2 living children, took residence in Copenhagen 1875.

https://kbharkiv.dk/permalink/post/17-1567570

Kirsten Jørgensen, née Thomsen, passed away 17 Nov. 1916:
https://kildeviser.kbharkiv.dk/#!?collection=5&item=72540 - No 6398

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17114793#149570,24741908 - No 70

Venlig hilsen
Inger
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Inger Toudal

Gabriela


Gabriela

I can add that Elsebeth Jorgensen got married around 1888-90 perhaps in Copenhagen or Odensen? and her husband name was Paul Hantke. They have a daughter Kirsten Hantke born probably 1889-90 and a son Robert Hantke born 1890-91 and other daughter Gertrud born 1893?. Later in 1894 as a family of 5 members they emigrated from Hamburgo to Argentina.
Do you think you can find the marriage between Paul Hantke and Elsebeth Jorgensen in Denmark?
Thank you very much for your kindness and attention.

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Could it be Paul?

Pablo Hatke Huld born in Germany 1863 and died in Santiago Chile 1934?
Found him at Familly search.org


Ulla karin

Gabriela

Thank you Ulla Karin Alsvold and yes this is the Paul Hantke from Germany  I am looking for that married Elsebeth Jorgensen from Denmark. They married around 1888-1890 in Odensen or Copehagen.

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Hallo again

The problem is that we don´t know where the children was born. And in what document have you found that they travelled from Hamburg?
What documents are there in Chile, any records of naturalization?


Ulla karin

Gabriela

Thank you Ulla Karin. I know they emigrated  from Hamburg to Argentina on 1894 but I dont know where the children were born.
I am searching inmigration data in Argentina but I have only found the trip data so my hope is to fine the marriage in Denmark where Elsebeth the bride lived.

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Hallo again

Where did you find the trip data ?
How are you related to this persons?

Ulla karin

Gabriela

Hi Ulla Karin
Nice to write you again. Answering to your questions I know by family data because they were the grand parents of my mother so my grand-grand parents. :)

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Hallo Gabriella.

Do your family data tell you La Plata in Argentina or La Plata Maderia, in Spain
Check the Passengerlist for Hamburg in Ancestry.com.
If you want to see more you have to pay. It is no problem if you remember to let them know, when you want it to end.
Please let me know.

https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/1068/?name=_hantke


Ulla karin

Gabriela

 :) Thank you Ulla Karin I am happy to communicate because i don´t understand Danish so i don´t know if I am doing the right thing...
Thank you for your idea about Ancestry.com, i have the boat records because i got it from the Chile-German League and it is the passenger list with some information but not what I am looking for, that is:
1. The marriage between Elsebeth Jorgensen adn Paul hantke around 1888-1891 in Odensen or Copehaguen or even Hamburg.
2.The birth of Elsebeth Jorgensen in Denmark in Odense or Copenhaguen around 1861-65
3.The birth of Paul Hantke around 1861-65
4. As a way to move toward this information the birth of the children Kirsten, Robert and Gertrud Hantke (Jorgensen)
Do you think Ancestry.com may have this information?

Are you a researcher in Denmark? I am planning to visit Denmark after the Corona virus end.

My best regards, Gabriela Paiva Hantke


Ulla Karin Alsvold

Ancestry has the passengerlist, probaly the same.

If you look at familysearch.org  for free, you will find the International Genealogical Index for Hedwig Hantke, if you search for Hantke in Chile you can study birth registrations, in Spanish.


I am an Swedish researcher, living in Skåne, the Öresund Bridge is between the countries.
But I have relatives in Denmark and had a lot of help from the researcher on Forum, and learned a lot about how to search in the different books.

Sending you an email.

Have a good day
Ulla Karin Alsvold

Britta Hansen

#20
Citat2.The birth of Elsebeth Jorgensen in Denmark in Odense or Copenhaguen around 1861-65
The best (and only) candidate so far is the female found by Inger Toudal
Nicoline Kirstine Elsebeth Johansen Jørgensen born 25 Feb. 1862 in Odense.

Her half-sister Gertha Christine Christensen Jørgensen *27. May 1865 Odense, Sankt Knuds
married Carl Albert Helle-Broe on 15. January 1885 in Holmens, Copenhagen.

This couple had four children according to this Geneanet family site

A daughter
Kirsten Emilie Helle-Broe *5. April 1887

Kirsten Emilie married Lorentz Johan Bie *24. June 1878 on 7. April 1908 Frederiks, Copenhagen

Kirsten Bie is the grandchild mentioned in the probate records from Court
Københavns Skiftekommission
Forseglings- og registreringsprotokol – left #998

I do not know if some DNA-testing of you, your mother (if she is still alive) and descendants of this half-sister might indicate a reliable genetic connection. But you might give it a try, if you can find living descendants of the four Helle-Broe children.

You can find the owner of the Geneanet site on Facebook.
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Ulla Karin Alsvold

I agree.

I can´t find anything more abuot the family

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Britta Hansen

#22
Gabriela,

I found possible living descendants of the sister. You can mail me: britta.hansen12@gmail.com.

Citat1. The marriage between Elsebeth Jorgensen adn Paul hantke around 1888-1891 in Odensen or Copehaguen
If the marriage has been found in DK by a user on this Forum-site, most certainly he or she already would have revealed place and date.

Citat4. ................the birth of the children Kirsten, Robert and Gertrud Hantke (Jorgensen)
If someone already found the baptisms of the three children, he/she would have told us.
Venlig hilsen
Britta Hansen

britta.hansen12@gmail.com

Inger Toudal

#23
Gertha Christine changes her surname from Christensen to Jørgensen 10 Dec. 1884, i.e. shortly before her marriage 15 Jan. 1885.

Nicoline Kirstine Elsebeth changes her surname from Johansen to Jørgensen 11 Jul. 1887, so maybe she marries shortly after that date?

Both girls change their surname to the surname of their stepfather Jørgen Jørgensen.

Elsebeth is living with her mother in Copenhagen in May 1887, but no longer in Nov. 1887.

Venlig hilsen
Inger
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

Ulla Karin Alsvold

Inger must have fuond the right person. Elsbeth Jorgensen travelled from Copenhagen to Hamburg and emigrated to Argentia1 of July 1887 (Hamburg passengerlists) She went alone.


Ulla karin Alsvold

Sonia Pedersen

Hola Gabriela,  he leído tu post y tal vez  puedas encontrar información en el Censo argentino de 1895 de las personas que pasaron por Argentina en su camino a Chile. Saludos cordiales,

Sonia Pedersen. Argentina.

(Gabriela kan maaske finde positiv response i den argentinske national Census fra 1895, da hendes aner kom til landet fór de flyttede over til Chile).
Mvh Sonia