different records with same information, jordebøger, 1733, Koldinghus

Startet af Lisa Petersen, 18 Sep 2020 - 00:55

Forrige emne - Næste emne

Lisa Petersen

I have found 3 different records with what looks like the same information about an ancestor (Christen Jepsen in Oustrup).  What are the differences?

Rentekammeret, Landgildejordebog, Kolding Distrikt, 1733, Book No. 135
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V9-ZXLR?i=1&cat=25724
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3V9-Z6GV?cat=25724 

Rentekammeret, Landgildejordebog, Kolding Distrikt, 1733, Book No. 136
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V9-833G?i=1&cat=25724
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V9-8S94?cat=25724

Koldinghus Rytterdistrikt, Jordebog, 1733, Book No. 1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3J5-6298?i=2&cat=394246
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3J5-62WB?cat=394246

Thank you.

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

Grethe Leerbech

Hi Lisa

First the Kolding Jordebog. Rytterdistrikts means the Kings farms in Kolding area, where the farmers also should serve the king and the military and they peid rent for the farm to the King.
The jordebog tells us the Size/areal  of the farmspoil and what they growed- In the page you can see that they grow: Barley, Rhye, Wheat and the first one should keep 16 sommer and Winterhorses and 3 horses for hunt. also "brændevin /Snaps they where allowed- alcohol to make themselves (of the barley I think)

The last one should also pay a "guesttax", because he had to take guests in  ex. officials and officers, but also he sould have a payment for that.

Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Grethe Leerbech

Landgildejordebog: Is a protocol over the farmers yearly tax of their outcome.

The first one. As you can see they grow the same as in the jordebog for rytterdistriktet. but here they are going to pay a tax in money of their outcome ex. 3Rd 71 skilling and besides that the 2 first also shal pay extra 1Rd 48 Skilling for the horses (I read so, but I wonder why they shall pay tax for the horses)!

The second book:  Is excactly the same, but here you have a totally inventory list of all the farms that is the total areal , total outcome and the total they shall pay in money.

Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Ole Westermann

#3
Hej Lisa

Briefly - the books contain nearly identical/comparable informations.

Landgilde is the yearly duty/tax that the leaseholder (fæster) has to pay to the owner.
It can be money, grain, diff. animals, eggs, butter or duties.
(ex. Aarlig Penge, Rug, Biug, Havre, Malt, Smør, Brendsvin (branded pigs to feed in the forest), Føe Nød (cattle), Lamb, Gaas, Høns etc...)
Also selfowners have to pay landgilde - to the king - a kind of tax to the state.
As you can see the value of all these things are in practice transformed into a payment in money.
What should ex. the king do with all the pigs, lambs, hens, geese, eggs etc ?!!

The money from the Ryttergods (owned by the King) provided the Cavalry Regiments with money.

The Jordebog tells about the size (Hartkorn) of the leased farm/house/mill and how much leaseholder shall pay in 'landgilde' each year to the owner, like above - on the right page the payment is transformed into money (Particulair Erindring af Sessionen).

mvh Ole

Ole Westermann

I looked closer on the books:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3V9-Z6GV?cat=25724 - Landgildejordebog nr 135
Focusing on ex. on Laurs Nielsen i Oustrup:
Hartkorn 2-3-3-2 (Tønder-Skæpper- Fjerdingkar-Album) - he has to pay each year in
Landgilde Rye-Barley-Oats 1 ørte each, 1 branded pig,
                for stabling of 16 summer- and winter horses, and 3 hunters horses
       all this is transformed into money on the right page - 3 rigsdaler 71 skilling
     as:  each Tønde (barrel) Hartkorn corresponds to 1 rigsdaler 48 skilling
    --------------------
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V9-8S94?cat=25724 - Landgildejordebog nr 136
- exactly the same as above -
   --------------------
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3J5-62WB?cat=394246 - Jordebog nr 1
- exactly the same as above ! -

Ole Westermann

Sorry Lisa, that I had failed to notice, that you asked for Christen Jepsen i Oustrup.
But as you can see, it's the same as for Laurs Nielsen just below.

Lisa Petersen

Grethe and Ole

Thank you for the information and trying to help me with this.  Yes all 3 books show the same information about each land tenant.  I guess one book was written first, perhaps the Koldinghus Rytterdistrikt, and the other two are copies.  To me, in the 21st Century, it seems like a lot of work to copy a large book by hand with pen and ink, so there must have been reasons to do that, important to someone.

I have looked more at the 3 books and found that

1.  they cover the same area, Koldinghus Rytterdistrikt
2.  the 3rd one, K.R. Jordebog, keeps a running total of penge/landgilde (each page has the total from the first page up to and including that page)
3.  Rentekammerets Book 135 shows the total hartkorn and penge of each page on each page (not a running total)
4.  Rentekammerets Book 136 shows a running total of hartkorn and penge on each page

So I think now that

1.  the Koldinghus Rytterdistrikt made the jordebog first, and calculated the landgilde each farmer should pay
2.  the tenant farmers paid the landgilde to the K. Rytterdistrikt
3.  the Rentekammer wants a copy of the jordebog, from Koldinghus and other parts of Denmark, to know the income for the whole country

Is this correct?  If yes, perhaps I should keep the information from the K.R. Jordebog for each ancestor in my family database, and not use the Rentekammers books.

New question:  Did Christen Jepsen (and Laurs Nielsen, they were brothers-in-law) pay 3rdr 71sk only in 1733, or each year until a new jordebog was made?  There are very few jordebøger in this rytterdistrikt.

Thanks again, and I hope you are staying away from the virus.

Lisa Petersen
near Washington, D.C.

Ole Westermann

Lisa

I looked also in the end of all 3 books - and everything seemed identical !

I imagine that the Jordebog made in Kolding was sent to the Rentekammer, and there clerks made 2 copies named Landgildejordebog I and II.
I also noticed in the end of the book, that the Rentekammer compared the book with a book called Krigsjordebogen ('The war cadastre') to find deviations.

And I think that Christen Jepsen and Laurs Nielsen payed 3 rd 71 sk each year for many years, I don't know for how many.

Personally I don't fear the corona virus - I live my life as allways. There is and has been too much panic about that.
As a practising vet during many years I know a good deal about virus diseases - they are not so different in animals and humans.
I have allways been able to wash my hands, and now I only use alcohol for internal use and in small amounts as usual.

Best wishes
Ole


Lisa Petersen

Hej Ole

Thanks for the reply about Christen Jepsen paying 3rd 71sk each year.

I think the Krigsjordebog could be this one from 1692.  Maybe there are 3 copies of this, too?    ;D

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WN-NV9W?mode=g&i=2&cat=392945
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9WN-NNXM?i=116&cat=392945

My family has managed to stay healthy, and for me, the 'new normal' is not so bad.  For my daughter in college, though, everything was cancelled -- study abroad in the spring and summer in Europe, then living on campus, sports, and in-person classes this fall.  We are looking forward to the end of 2020!

mvh
Lisa P.