Too many Hans Rasmussen

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 31 Mar 2020 - 23:37

Hello,

According to my information my Hans Rasmussen was born 8 Feb 1739 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark and dies 30 Dec 1772 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark at the age of 36 (his birth year would suggest he was born 1736). He is the son of Rasmus Hansen (son of Hans Rasmussen and Anna Christensdatter) and Karen Henriksdatter (daughter of Henrik Plembach and Anna Larsdatter) who married 22 Dec 1738 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark.

He married 1st to my Maria Pedersdatter around 1768 (I do not know where Maria comes from) and they had one child Anna Hansdatter 19 Nov 1769 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark before Maria dies 9 Feb 1771 in Farsbølle.

He married 2nd to Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter 9 Aug 1771 in Brenderup, Vends, Odense, Denmark. They had one child Rasmus Hansen born 10 Oct 1772 in Farsbølle.

His probate is dated 23 Jan 1773 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark.

Birth Hans Rasmussen #1 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466246

Marriage to Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17137359#178802,30329872

Death Hans Rasmussen #1 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466245

Probate Hans Rasmussen here: http://faesterogskifter.dk/InfoSpage.aspx?id=110734

Next I have Hans Rasmussen #2 who was born 9 Oct 1740 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark. I have no other information about him. I did not see a death record for him in Lumby and I have no marriage information for him.

Birth Hans Rasmussen #2 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137939#180018,30528873

Next I have Hans Rasmussen #3 who was born 2 Aug 1744 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark. He is sometimes known as Hans Rasmussen Slagter. He dies 16 Apr 1829 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark age 83.

He marries 1st to Anna Hansdatter around 1773 and together they have 10 children all born in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark. Anna dies 3 Dec 1807 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark. He marries 2nd to Karen Marie Simonsdatter 29 Dec 1808 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark and together they have 4 children all born in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark.

Birth Hans Rasmussen #3 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137939#180018,30528915

Death Hans Rasmussen #3 death here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21835590#449123,80677420

Year:   FT-1787   Source reference:   194
Household No:   40
Name:   Hans Rasmussen
Age:   42      Civil status:   gift
Position in household:   Manden      Occupation:   Huusmand og Slagter
No of marriage:   1
Parish:   Lumby   District:   Lunde
Shire:   Odense   Place name:   Lumbye Bye (Huusmænd)
Source entry No:   A4229   Record No.:   255

Hans Rasmussen    42    gift    Manden    Huusmand og Slagter
Anne Hansdatter    38    gift    Konen [Hans Rasmussen]
Maren Hansdatter    13    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Hans Christian -    8    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Karen Hansdatter    6    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Rasmus Hansen    4    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Anne Marie -    2    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]

Year:   FT-1801   Source reference:   235
Household No:   17
Name:   Hans Rasmussen
Age:   59      Civil status:   gift
Position in household:   Huusfader      Occupation:   Jordløs Huusmand og Slagter
No of marriage:   1
Parish:   Lumby   District:   Lunde
Shire:   Odense   Place name:   Lumbye
Source entry No:   A4232   Record No.:   125

Hans Rasmussen    59    gift    Huusfader    Jordløs Huusmand og Slagter
Anna Hansdatter    55    gift    Kone [Hans Rasmussen]
Anna Maria Hansdatter    15    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Abelone Hansdatter    13    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]
Peter Hansen    7    ugift    Barn [Hans Rasmussen]

I understand that it was sometimes common to name two living children the same name but three sons? And why would they not name their second son Henrik after the mother's father?

Niels Just Rasmussen · 01 Apr 2020 - 20:08

The System was generally that:
1st Son: Named after the paternal grandfather.
2nd Son: Named after the maternal grandfather.
3rd+ sons: More free name giving, but often after other (dead) members of the family.

If one son dies, then the next new son is often born with the now missing name (1 or 2) [I have seen children named the same and dying 3 times in a row, but don't recall ever seen anyone so lucky they had to name 4 children after each other].
If a widow(er) marry again, then you can also easily have half-siblings with the same name.; as both the paternal-and the maternal grandfather can have the same name!

With short-range intermarriages you often see the same names within a parish, so anyone is called the same [because most end up being related in some way]. Another parish might end up using somewhat different names, though some names are very common all over the country.
In reality most people were known by nicknames, occupational name and/or by the farm they lived - so for the locals it wasn't a problem.
For us that only have the few informations in a church book it can get really tricky when everyone are called the same....

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 02 Apr 2020 - 00:20

Citat fra: Niels Just Rasmussen Dato 01 Apr 2020 - 20:08

If one son dies, then the next new son is often born with the now missing name (1 or 2)

Thank you Niels! I think what struck me as odd with this family is that the children are all coming from the same parents: Rasmus Hansen (son of Hans Rasmussen and Anna Christensdatter) and Karen Henriksdatter (daughter of Henrik Plembach and Anna Larsdatter).

Plus they name their first two daughter Kirsten (Kirsten #1 dies) yet neither had a mother named Kirsten.

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 02 Apr 2020 - 01:37

I have since discovered that Hans Rasmussen #2 cannot be their child since their next child, a daughter Kirsten, was born only a few months later on 19 Feb 1741 and although she dies in 1742 another Kirsten is born 1743 and the dates match up, I think that father's name in the baptism record for Hans Rasmussen #2 was wrong.

So I am down to 2 Hans Rasmussens which I think is more realistic.

Inge Nissen · 02 Apr 2020 - 07:34

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 02 Apr 2020 - 00:20

Plus they name their first two daughter Kirsten (Kirsten #1 dies) yet neither had a mother named Kirsten.

Perhaps the father was a widower when he married the mother, and his first wife was named Kirsten. A common custom in many places to give the first daughter in a new marriage the name of the dead wife.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 02 Apr 2020 - 12:55

What Inge says is very true and it does seem very strange from a modern perspective.
That a second wife "allows" their first daughter in the new marriage to be named after the husbands former dead wife.
But I have seen that often as well and it was an accepted custom.
"Names has to go on".

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 02 Apr 2020 - 19:48

Thank you both. That makes complete sense and I have seen that practise many times not only if the wife dies but if the husband dies that the next same gender child is given the same name.

The only problem with that is that I have not found any information to indicate that my Rasmus Hansen was married before. He was born 3 Sep 1713 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark and married Karen Henriksdatter when he was 25 and she was 23 on 22 Dec 1738 in Lumby, Lunde, Odense, Denmark.

Betrothal 14 Nov 1738 here on right side: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137939#180018,30528849

Marriage 25 Dec 1738 on left side here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137939#180018,30528851

Niels Just Rasmussen · 02 Apr 2020 - 23:48

Unfortunately it doesn't state either place whether he is "ungkarl" (bachelor) or "enkemand" (widower), so it does seem weird.

I can see three options to go forward.....

1) He has been married before and maybe the first wife died in childbirth. [I have seen a woman that became a widow for the 3rd time at the age of 26 years in the 1700 hundreds with epidemics and/or harvest failures].
Remember that is was the Danish tradition to be married in the Bride's parish, so it could be the reason you haven't found an earlier marriage, if she came from a another parish.
Only way to know that is go through the burials in Lumbye to see if any "wife of Rasmus Hansen" was buried, if so it is worth looking into neighbouring parishes?

2) Could it be you have the wrong "Karen Henriksdatter" - maybe she did have a mother, whose name was Kirstine?
First daughter was usually named after the maternal grandmother.

3) or it is an irregularity.
Maybe one of them had a sister named Kirstine, that had recently died?

The naming system is not 100% foolproof - you do see occasional variations!

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 04 Apr 2020 - 22:35

Thank you for explaining that.

I have come across something odd with respect to Hans Rasmussen #1.

CitatHe married 2nd to Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter 9 Aug 1771 in Brenderup, Vends, Odense, Denmark. They had one child Rasmus Hansen born 10 Oct 1772 in Farsbølle.

Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter married 2nd to Niels Henriksen 2 Apr 1773 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark and together they have six children.

What is confusing to me is that on the 1787 Census I find Dorthe and her family (and her step-daughter Anna Hansdatter) living with "Konens 1. mands moder" and she is listed as Ane Hansdatter not Karen Henriksdatter? So now I am super confused other than this might explain why two sons are named Hans and no sons named Henrik.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid89293

Year:   FT-1787   Source reference:   Mikrofiche 437
Household No:   F 1
Name:   Ane Hansdatter
Age:   17      Civil status:   u
Position in household:   Konens steddatter      Occupation:   -
Parish:   Haarslev   District:   Skovby
Shire:   Odense   Place name:   Fasbølle og de tilhørende Stæder
Source entry No:   A3175   Record No.:   295

Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Niels Henrichsen    39    g    Huusbond    Bonde og Gaardmand
Dorthe Jørgensdatter 36    g    Hans kone    -
Rasmus Hansen    14    -    Søn af hendes 1. ægteskab    -
Hans Nielsen      11    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Henrich Nielsen    8    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Boel Nielsdatter    4    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Nielsdatter    1    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Hansdatter    17    u    Konens steddatter    -
Ane Hansdatter    85    e    Konens 1. mands moder    -

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 00:01

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 04 Apr 2020 - 22:35
Thank you for explaining that.

I have come across something odd with respect to Hans Rasmussen #1.

CitatHe married 2nd to Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter 9 Aug 1771 in Brenderup, Vends, Odense, Denmark. They had one child Rasmus Hansen born 10 Oct 1772 in Farsbølle.

Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter married 2nd to Niels Henriksen 2 Apr 1773 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark and together they have six children.

What is confusing to me is that on the 1787 Census I find Dorthe and her family (and her step-daughter Anna Hansdatter) living with "Konens 1. mands moder" and she is listed as Ane Hansdatter not Karen Henriksdatter? So now I am super confused other than this might explain why two sons are named Hans and no sons named Henrik.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid89293

Year:   FT-1787   Source reference:   Mikrofiche 437
Household No:   F 1
Name:   Ane Hansdatter
Age:   17      Civil status:   u
Position in household:   Konens steddatter      Occupation:   -
Parish:   Haarslev   District:   Skovby
Shire:   Odense   Place name:   Fasbølle og de tilhørende Stæder
Source entry No:   A3175   Record No.:   295

Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Niels Henrichsen    39    g    Huusbond    Bonde og Gaardmand
Dorthe Jørgensdatter 36    g    Hans kone    -
Rasmus Hansen    14    -    Søn af hendes 1. ægteskab    -
Hans Nielsen      11    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Henrich Nielsen    8    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Boel Nielsdatter    4    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Nielsdatter    1    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Hansdatter    17    u    Konens steddatter    -
Ane Hansdatter    85    e    Konens 1. mands moder    -

(Probably) found Ane Hansdatter buried 5th of April 1788 in Hørslev Sogn.
Listed as the mother of Hr. Landstingshører Rasmussen from Fasbølle. Age 85 years.
Source (s. 160, right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137775#179648,30466300

Landstingshører:
Source: https://ordnet.dk/ods/ordbog?query=landstingsh%C3%B8rer

Was the first Hans Rasmussen a "Landtingshører"?
If so we have the right person....

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 05 Apr 2020 - 01:03

I do not see that name in the birth of Anna Hansdatter 19 Nov 1769 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark here on the left: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466233

Or in the birth of Rasmus Hansen 10 Oct 1772 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark here on the right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466245

And I am not sure I see that word in the death record for Hans Rasmussen #1 here on the right: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466246

The age of Anna Hansdatter of 85 on the 1787 Census makes her born around 1702 but this then does not match with the birth of the children of Rasmus Hansen whose last daughter, Anna Marie, was born 1759.

The probate database record seems to indicate he was a gårdmand here: http://faesterogskifter.dk/InfoSpage.aspx?id=110734

The death record of Karen Henriksdatter has a long blurb about Rasmus Hansen and Karen Henriksdatter but I cannot decipher what it says except that she was 40 when she died.

Karen Henriksdatter death 12 Feb 1760 here on the left: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137939#180019,30529092

I am almost wondering if Rasmus Hansen married a 2nd time. I do not see a marriage in Lumby or Gamborg but it is possible that he married an Anna Hansdatter somewhere between 12 Feb 1760 and 15 Feb 1763.

Rasmus Hansen dies 15 Feb 1763 in Gamborg, Vends, Odense, Denmark here on the left: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17137587#179257,30404097

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 12:45

Probate after Hans Rasmussen 23. Januar 1773:
Enke: Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter.
Hendes lavværge: Jørgen ?Henrichsen? i Ore Skovmøller.
Hendes barn: Rasmus Hansen 1/4 aar gammel.
Rasmus Hansens værge: Landtings-hører Rasmussen fra Odense, som var faderens broder !!
Forrige ægteskab: Marie Pedersdatter.
Barn: Anna Hansdatter, 3 1/2 år gammel.
Anna Hansdatter værge: Moderens fader Peder Sørensen fra Broelund.
Hans Rasmussens moder: Anna Hansdatter.
Hendes lavværge: Hendes søn Landstings hører Rasmus Rasmussen [som altså er broder til afdøde Hans Rasmussen].
Source (p 38, right page): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17070926#140500,34500785

Conclusion:
Hans Rasmussen's former wife was Marie Pedersdatter [her father Peder Sørensen from Broelund, still alive].
Child: Anna Hansdatter [has maternal grandfather Peder Sørensen as guardian]
Hans Rasmussen's recent wife was Dorthe Marie Pedersdatter.
Child: Rasmus Hansen [has fathers brother Landstings-hører Rasmus Rasmussen as guardian].
Mother: Anna Hansdatter [has sons brother Landstings-hører Rasmus Rasmussen as guardian].
2nd wife Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter has Jørgen H....sen as guardian [unclear if her father?]

So the Anna Hansdatter - who died as 85 years old in 1788 - IS the mother of Hans Rasmussen and of Landtings-hører [Rasmus] Rasmussen in Odense, who is still alive in 1788.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 13:45

Probate after gaardmand Peder Sørensen 23. Juni 1796 in Broelund, Særslev Sogn, Odense Amt.
- child nr 7: Marie Pedersdatter, giwt med gaardmand Hans Rasmussen i Farsbølle, død, men efterladt en datter Anne giwt med gaardmand Anders Jespersen i Eilschou.
Kilde (s. 135, rigt mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17070296#139476,34340253

"Broelund" [modern Brolund] is a Gård in Sønder Esterbølle in Særslev Sogn.
See picture form 1995: https://arkiv.dk/vis/925675

Elvedgård fæsteregister 1704-1882, Veflinge sogn, Skovby herred, Odense amt [Transcribed]
Jens Pedersen takes over the "Fæste" to Brolund in Særslev Sogn from his father Peder Sørensen 10. September 1798.
Source (page 3, second entry): http://www.wadschier.dk/afskrifter/elvedgaard_faeste1704-1782_w.pdf

Census 1787: Odense, Skovby, Særslev, Esterbølle Bye, , F 7, FT-1787, A3171
Peder Sørensen    75    e    Hosbonde    Bonde og Gaardbeboer
Jens Pedersen    50    g    Hands søn    Opholder sig hos faderen
Kirstine Larsdatter    38    g    Kone    Opholder sig hos faderen (gift med ovennævnte)
Søren Jensen    2    -    Deres søn    -
Ane Catrine Hansdatter    20    u    -    Tienestefolk
Hans Jensen    28    u    -    Tienestefolk
Marie Lisbet Rasmusdatter    15    -    -    Tienestefolk
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.

Census 1801: Odense, Skovby, Særslev, Sønder Esterbølle Bye, , F 5, FT-1801, A3463
Jens Pedersen    63    Gift    Huusbonde    Bonde og Gaardbeboer
Cathrine Maria    30    Gift    Hans kone    -
Søren Jensen    15    Ugift    Hans søn    -
Niels Rasmussen    18    Ugift    Tienestefolk    -
Maria Lisbet    31    -    Tienestefolk    -
Jørgen Sørensen    45    Ugift    Karl    -
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.

----

Census 1801: Odense Amt, Skovby Herred, Haarslev Sogn, Eilskow Bye, F 4, 186, FT-1801, A3467
Anders Jespersen    45    Gift    Huusbonde    Bonde og Gaardmand
Ane Hansdatter    32    Gift    Hans kone    -      [daughter of Hans Rasmussen & Marie Pedersdatter].
Kirstine Marie Andersdatter    9    Ugift    Deres barn    -
Jesper Andersen    7    Ugift    Deres barn    -
Ane Marie Andersdatter    5    Ugift    Deres barn    -
Magrethe Andersdatter    3    Ugift    Deres barn    -
Hans Andersen    1    Ugift    Deres barn    -
Jørgen Jespersen    27    Gift    Mandens broder    Soldat
Lars Nielsen    21    Ugift    Tienestefolk    -
Hans Christophersen    12    Ugift    Tienestefolk    -
Jens Pedersen    35    Ugift    Tienestefolk    Privat Skoleholder
Karen Frandsdatter    31    Ugift    Tienestefolk    -
Karen Pedersdatter    16    Ugift    Tienestefolk    -
Source: Dansk Demografisk Database.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 14:27

Gyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
15. feb 1759 fæste til Hans Rasmussen, det fæste efter hans fader Rasmus Rasmussen iboende gaard i Farsbølle, Haarslev Sogn.
Kilde (s. 146, nederst højre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264532

So it is very likely that [your] Hans Rasmussen's father was Rasmus Rasmussen [and Hans Rasmussen also had a brother named Rasmus Rasmussen].

Gyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
17. Februar 1773 fæste til Niels Hendrichsen, egter [ægter = marries] afdøde Hans Rasmussen's hustru [Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter].
Source (s. 218, nederst højre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264604

Census 1787: Odense, Skovby, Haarslev, Fasbølle og de tilhørende Stæder, , F 1, FT-1787, A3175
Niels Henrichsen    39    g    Huusbond    Bonde og Gaardmand
Dorthe Jørgensdatter    36    g    Hans kone    -
Rasmus Hansen    14    -    Søn af hendes 1. ægteskab    -
Hans Nielsen    11    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Henrich Nielsen    8    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Boel Nielsdatter    4    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Nielsdatter    1    -    Barn af sidste ægteskab    -
Ane Hansdatter    17    u    Konens steddatter    -
Ane Hansdatter    85    e    Konens 1. mands moder    -
Hans Hendrich Jørgensen    23    u    -    Tienestefolk. Landsoldat
Rasmus Hansen    22    u    -    Tienestefolk
Ane Marie Lausdatter    17    u    -    Tienestefolk
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 14:43

Rasmus Rasmussen - brother of Hans Rasmussen.

Census 1787: Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Torvet, 2, 1, Ft-1787, C0708
Rasmus Rasmussen    56    Gift 2. Ga    Husstandsoverhoved    Landstingshører
Jacobine Kurzelbaum    51    Gift 1. Ga    Gift Med Husstandsoverhoved     [his 2nd wife].
Rasmus Rasmussen    16    Ugift    Barn    Latinskoleelev
Johan Frederich Kurzelbaum Rasmussen    11    Ugift    Barn
Kirstine Torsager Rasmussen    15    Ugift    Barn
Christen Jensen    23    Ugift    Tjenestefolk    Skriverkarl
Hans Jørgen Bøtger    16    Ugift    Tjenestefolk    Skriverdreng
Anne Marie Arvesen    31    Ugift    Tjenestefolk    Stuepige
Marie Hansdatter    21    Ugift    Tjenestefolk    Kokkepige
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.

Census 1801: Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kiøbstad, Det store Torv, 587, FT-1801, B9037
Rasmus Rasmussen    69    Enke(mand)    huusbonde    landstingshører
Kirstine Rasmussen    29    Ugift    hans datter
Andreas Scheffmann    22    Ugift    tienestefolk    fuldmægtig
Lars Gottfred Schmid    16    Ugift    tienestefolk    skriver
Maria Cathrine Nielsen    21    Ugift    tienestefolk
Anna Maria Johansdatter    21    Ugift    tienestefolk
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 14:55

Could be the Father of Hans Rasmussen:

Gyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
21. jul 1729 fæste til unge karl Rasmus Rasmussen fød i Haarslev Sogn, den gaard i Haarslev Sogn udi Farsbølle Bye, som Niels Madsen sidst beboede og fradøde.
Kilde (s. 39, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264425
NB: Så Rasmus Rasmussen takes over the fæste from Niels Madsen, who died. No obvious relation between the two.

Haarslev Sogn:
Baptised: First Sunday after Trinitatis 1732.
Rasmus Rasmussen, [son] Rasmus [Rasmussen] in Farbøll.
Source (s. 13, roght): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137775#179647,30466117
&
eod die [1737] Rasmus Rasmussen [son] Hans [Rasmussen] i Farbølle.
Source (s. 15, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17137775#179647,30466119

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 15:39

Possible death of Rasmus Rasmussen:

Burial: 8. Marts 1762.
En Rasmus "Coporal" [Corporal] af Faesbøel, 70 aar gammel.
Kilde (s. 60, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466200
NB: If this is the older Rasmus Rasmussen, it gives the military information.

No Probate after him, but there is after his wife:

Gyldensten Gods. Skifteprotokol for Oregård (1720-1830).
19. Maj 1788 efter Anne Hansdatter.
Død på Niels Henrichsens gaard i Farsbølle den 30. Marts.
En Søn: Landstingshører Rasmussen i Odense.
En Søn: Hans Rasmussen, førhen gaardmand i bemeldte Niels Henrichsens gaard i Farsbølle; men som er død men har efterladt sig:
[Hans Rasmussen's children]
Søn: Rasmus Hansen 15 aar gammel.
Datter: Anne Hansdatter 18 1/2 gammel.
Kiide (s. 681, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17070926#140502,34501590

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 16:02

Haarslev Sogn.

Konfirmeret 1753.
1) Hans, Rasmus Corpor[al], søn i Farsb[ølle].
Kilde (s. 18, højre øverst): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466158
&
Hans Rasmussen's big brother Rasmus Rasmussen is apparently Confirmed before 1750 (where we have the earliest list of confirmed children).

Death of brother Rasmus Rasmussen.
Død: 24. Maj 1823 i Vester Hæsinge Sogn, Sallinge Herred, Svendborg Amt.
Begravet: 29. Maj 1823.
Navn: Landstingshører Rasmussen.
Alder: 91 aar.
Kilde (s. 89, 4-lowest): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138743#181951,30889467

Probate fills a good deal:
Brahesminde gods. Skifteprotokoller for Stensgård (1718-1851):
See: https://www.faesterogskifter.dk/InfoSpage.aspx?id=111877

Discovered from someone on the net, who had done the work extensively already!
See Hans Rasmussen: https://www.ronlev.dk/webtrees/individual.php?pid=I6256&ged=anetavler
See landstingshører Rasmus Rasmussen: https://www.ronlev.dk/webtrees/individual.php?pid=I6246&ged=anetavler

Niels Just Rasmussen · 05 Apr 2020 - 18:03

Married: Onsdagen d. 8 Juni 1768 in Særslev Sogn, Odense Amt. [generally marriage in the Bride's parish].
Hans Rasmussen fra Farsbølle &
Peder Sørensen['s] daatter af Brolund Marie Pedersdatter.
Kilde (s. 25, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138499#181472,30814918

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 06 Apr 2020 - 21:58

Thank you so much Niels. So Rasmus Hansen has no relation to my Hans Rasmussen #1?

I am just making my way through all of your information.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 06 Apr 2020 - 23:00

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 06 Apr 2020 - 21:58
Thank you so much Niels. So Rasmus Hansen has no relation to my Hans Rasmussen #1?

I am just making my way through all of your information.

Correct. The "older" Rasmus Hansen from Lumby has no relation to Hans Rasmussen #1 [but Hans Rasmussen has a son Rasmus Hansen with his second wife].

Hans Rasmussen #1 [born 1737] is the son of Rasmus Rasmussen & Anne Hansdatter [dies 1788].
His older brother Rasmus Rasmussen [born 1732] becomes a "Landstingshører" in Odense.
His first wife is Marie Pedersdatter [daughter of Peder Sørensen from Særslev Sogn]; married 1768.
With her a daughter: Anne Hansdatter.
His second wife is Dorthe Marie Jørgensdatter, married 1771.
With her a son: Rasmus Hansen.

This is actually a very good example of: "If there is something strange with the names of the children", it is worth to check everything again!
Just know that the "naming convention" is usually the case, but not air tight.

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 07 Apr 2020 - 15:16

Thanks for clarifying that for me Niels.

I am glad I did not give up on this one because it turned out to not be my Hans Rasmussen at all and you have so fabulously done the investigating to prove it with supporting documentation.

I am still making my way through everything you found.

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 07 Apr 2020 - 16:31

CitatGyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
15. feb 1759 fæste til Hans Rasmussen, det fæste efter hans fader Rasmus Rasmussen iboende gaard i Farsbølle, Haarslev Sogn.
Kilde (s. 146, nederst højre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264532

So it is very likely that [your] Hans Rasmussen's father was Rasmus Rasmussen [and Hans Rasmussen also had a brother named Rasmus Rasmussen].

I am curious about this. Is it not normal that a fæste happens at the death of the father or some other similar situation that transfers title? If so, my Rasmus Rasmussen dies 3 Mar 1762 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark. Or does it just mean that the father is too old to run the farm? Also, was it not common that the eldest son would inherit the farm? Or did Hans get it because his older brother Rasmus was the Landtings-hører?

CitatBurial: 8. Marts 1762.
En Rasmus "Coporal" [Corporal] af Faesbøel, 70 aar gammel.
Kilde (s. 60, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466200
NB: If this is the older Rasmus Rasmussen, it gives the military information.

Does this mean my Rasmus Rasmussen was a Corporal in the military?

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 07 Apr 2020 - 18:57

I believe this is the birth for Rasmus Rasmussen 6 Mar 1692 in Nymark, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark. His father is Rasmus but I cannot decipher his patronymic. It looks like Hansen but my vision is bad and the page does not magnify well.

Birth here near the top left of the 2nd page: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17137775#179646,30465972

If it is Rasmus Hansen then this might be his probate: http://faesterogskifter.dk/InfoSpage.aspx?id=171491

It lists Anna Jensdatter as his spouse but the information I have suggests his wife was Karen Nielsdatter?

Niels Just Rasmussen · 07 Apr 2020 - 20:18

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 07 Apr 2020 - 16:31
CitatGyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
15. feb 1759 fæste til Hans Rasmussen, det fæste efter hans fader Rasmus Rasmussen iboende gaard i Farsbølle, Haarslev Sogn.
Kilde (s. 146, nederst højre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264532

So it is very likely that [your] Hans Rasmussen's father was Rasmus Rasmussen [and Hans Rasmussen also had a brother named Rasmus Rasmussen].

I am curious about this. Is it not normal that a fæste happens at the death of the father or some other similar situation that transfers title? If so, my Rasmus Rasmussen dies 3 Mar 1762 in Farsbølle, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark. Or does it just mean that the father is too old to run the farm? Also, was it not common that the eldest son would inherit the farm? Or did Hans get it because his older brother Rasmus was the Landtings-hører?

CitatBurial: 8. Marts 1762.
En Rasmus "Coporal" [Corporal] af Faesbøel, 70 aar gammel.
Kilde (s. 60, venstre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=179648#179648,30466200
NB: If this is the older Rasmus Rasmussen, it gives the military information.

Does this mean my Rasmus Rasmussen was a Corporal in the military?

It was NOT automatic that the Fæste went from father to (oldest) son.
You see fairly often that an unrelated young man takes over the fæste and either marries the widow (or the daughter of the former farmer).
Sometimes the fæste is continued in the family, but not automatically to the oldest son; could be any son deemed appropriate.
What you as an old farmer wanted was "aftægt": Meant a deal where you had a pension (food and drink) and could continue to live at the farm.
[Without "aftægt" you could just be thrown out].

So Rasmus Rasmussen passed on the fæste in 1759 to Hans Rasmussen - 3 years before he died to his second son [as the oldest had a career in Odense].

Gyldensten Gods. Fæsteprotokol for Oregård (1720 - 1830):
15. feb 1759 fæste til Hans Rasmussen, det fæste efter hans fader Rasmus Rasmussen iboende gaard i Farsbølle, Haarslev Sogn.
Kilde (s. 146, nederst højre): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20803208#333962,67264532

Rasmus Rasmussen could have had "Corporal" just as a nickname, but it is most likely that he had been an actual Corporal. Sadly we don't really have many army lists from that period preserved and we don't know in what regiment he was in.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 07 Apr 2020 - 20:54

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 07 Apr 2020 - 18:57
I believe this is the birth for Rasmus Rasmussen 6 Mar 1692 in Nymark, Hårslev, Skovby, Odense, Denmark. His father is Rasmus but I cannot decipher his patronymic. It looks like Hansen but my vision is bad and the page does not magnify well.

Birth here near the top left of the 2nd page: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17137775#179646,30465972

If it is Rasmus Hansen then this might be his probate: http://faesterogskifter.dk/InfoSpage.aspx?id=171491

It lists Anna Jensdatter as his spouse but the information I have suggests his wife was Karen Nielsdatter?

That probate [14. Marts 1737] is VERY informative:
It clearly stats that the wife is Anne Jensdatter and the following children listed are "deres efterladte børn". Not children of a former wife.
It seems that both Rasmus Jensen and Anne Jensdatter had died (as far as I can see)?!

....afgangne Rasmus Hansen og hustruen Anne Jensdatter til huse hos sønnen rytterbonde Jens Rasmussen.
Deres efterladte børn:
Niels Rasmussen, Grarup
Rasmus Rasmussen, Farsbølle paa grevskabet Gyldensten
Hans Rasmussen, paa ryttergodset i Roldshuse, Vissenbjerg
Jens Rasmussen, rytterbonde i Nymark [the son where the parents lived].
Anne Rasmusdatter gift med rytterbonde Peder Mathiesen i Tevringe
Karen Rasmusdatter gift med rytterbonde Jens Clausen, Skovsgaarde
Maren Rasmusdatter gift med Peder Hansen, Morud gaarde, Gyldenstens gods
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17070978#282553,55013368

About the Baptism in 1692 I does seem to say "Dom Lætare blif Rasmus Hansens barn i Ny? christnet ?ed nafn Rasmus".
It is a strange "H", but it is used again in the next sentence: "Degnens kone Holdt det til Daaben".
So we can be certain it is an H as who held the child at the baptism is a standard formular written after the name.
Fadderne: first mentioned is Peder Hansen [possibly a brother or the husbond of sister Maren Rasmusdatter?]. Same type of H again in his name.

Dom Lætare (Danish: Midfaste) = 4th Sunday after Fast. [Danish Fastelavn].
In 1692 that is Sunday the 6th of March.
See: http://www.morchslaegt.dk/bauers/kal_06s.htm

Niels Just Rasmussen · 07 Apr 2020 - 22:01

Første Fynske Nationale Rytterregiment. Haarslev (1685-1763). Nymarck:
"Rasmus Hansen af Nymarck" overtager fæste i Nymark den 2. Marts 1685 efter Hans Pedersen.
Kilde (s. 66-67): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20146297#282771,55070395

Can't from a cursory reading see if Hans Pedersen is his father, but as Rasmus Hansen is "af Nymark" it is quite possible!
I can't find a skifte after this Hans Pedersen, but it fits if he passed on the fæste to his son, while still alive.

The Hårslev churchbook first starts in 1688; but it is worth checking if you find a burial of Hans Pedersen in Nymark?!

As Rasmus Hansen's son Rasmus Rasmussen [born 1692] thus grew up at Nymark, then it is likely he was a Corporal in the First Funen National Cavalry Regiment (Første Fynske Nationale Rytterregiment).

Det Fynske Rytterdistrikt. Ruller og lister.
So it actually has military lists from 1702-1764 [though quite damaged and covers probably both 1st og 2nd regiment until 1718, when they apparently got joined]:
See: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20146359#282846,55088872

Total list of archives from Daisy on the "Første Fynske Nationale Rytterregiment": https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskabers_arkivserier?a=&b=&c=Fynske+nationale+rytterregiment+&d=1&e=2020&f=&g=&h=&ngid=10553768&ngnid=&heid=&henid=&epid=&faid=&meid=&m2rid=&side=&sort=&dir=&gsc=&int=&ep=&es=&ed=

Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland · 07 Apr 2020 - 22:09

Citat fra: Niels Just Rasmussen Dato 07 Apr 2020 - 20:18

[Without "aftægt" you could just be thrown out].

Oh, I learned something new! I have been working on my Denmark genealogy for 9 years and I always wondered what that meant on the Census records.

Niels Just Rasmussen · 07 Apr 2020 - 22:27

It is very faint - close to guessing.

Hårslev Sogn:
1692.
Dom ?Remise? [perhaps Dom Reminiscere = 2nd sunday after Fast]
blif ?Hans? Pedersen ?af? ?....? [can't read the rest of that line]
begraffvit i ?hans? alders 66 aar.
Kilde (s. 7, right page, third column mid): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17137775#179646,30465960

But is looks like a Hans Pedersen at some place dies and is buried at 66 years of age in 1692.

About "aftægt".
Danish: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aft%C3%A6gt

Niels Just Rasmussen · 07 Apr 2020 - 23:09

Specifikation over Hr. Obrister Rosenørns 2. Fynske Cuirasseer Regimentes Ryttergods 1714.
Haarslev Sogn:
Nymarck: nr 123. Peder Hansen. [so no Rasmus Hansen or Rasmus Rasmussen listed here].
Kilde (s. 240, nr. 123): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20146359#282846,55089069
&
Ruggaards Ampt. Skovby Herred. Haarslef Sogn.
Nymarck.
Peder Hansen as nr 123 [Company and Squadron number etc].
Kilde (s. 232): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20146359#282846,55089061

So this must be the 2nd regiment - so Rasmus Rasmussen should be in 1st regiment.