Confused about Kirsten Nielsdatter

Startet af Linda Michelle Thérèsa de Bodt Rosenland, 15 Feb 2020 - 02:47

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Hello,

My Kirsten Nielsdatter was born around 1767 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark and apparently died 7 Feb 1847 in Ørup, Rosmos, Djurs Sønder, Randers, Denmark.

Her age at death says 83 but something I did not know was that she was apparently a widow of Christan Sørensen and Niels Sørensen.  She is the daughter of Niels Jensen in Grundfør.

Death #1 here 7 Feb 1847: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21585578#368926,70718556

I have Kirsten Nielsdatter married to Søren Frandsen around 1799 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus.  The records do not appear to be online for me to confirm.  He dies 28 Nov 1830 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark.

Death Søren Frandsen Dahl #8 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391773,74288623

She is on the 1840 and 1845 Census living with her daughter Bergithe Marie Sørensdatter,

Age 73 1840 Census here: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4258955

Age 76 1845 Census here: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5006365

The marriage with Christian Sørensen appears to be 9 Jul 1814 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark but her 1st husband, Søren Frandsen, has not yet died which makes me wonder if I have the right death record because there is no mention of poor Søren.  The translation for the 1845 Census for Kirsten says, "Kirstine Nielsdatter 76 widow Divorced wife Grundför parish, county of Aarhus."

Marriage 9 Jul 1814 #5 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391772,74288602

I find my Søren Frandsen and Kirsten Nielsdatter in the 1801 Census as follows:

Year:   FT-1801   Source reference:   348   
Household No:   30.   
Name:   Kirsten Nielsdatter   
Age:   33      Civil status:   Gift   
Position in household:   Kone   
No of marriage:   1   
Parish:   Grundfør   District:   Vester Lisbjerg
Shire:   Aarhus   Place name:   Grundfør Bye
Source entry No:   B3144   Record No.:   198

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Søren Frandsen     37     Gift     Mand     Huusmand med jord      
Kirsten Nielsdatter     33     Gift     Kone           
Niels Jensen     6     Ugift     Pleiebarn           
Stephan Christensen     1     Ugift     fælles Tvillinger           
Anne Helena Sørensdatter     1     Ugift     fælles Tvillinger 

The children on this Census match what I have.

Stephan Christian Sørensen born about 1800 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark (twin)
Anna Helena Sørensdatter born about 1800 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark (twin)
Birgethe Marie Sørensdatter born 19 May 1802 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark (twin)
Bodil Marie Sørensdatter born 19 May 1802 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark (twin)
Anna Marie Sørensdatter born about 1805 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark
Frands Sørensen born 29 Jul 1808 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark

I find Kirsten Nielsdatter and Christian Sørensen on the 1834 Census living with her daughter Anna Marie Sørensdatter as follows:

Year:   FT-1834   Source reference:   124   
Cadastre/Address:   hus   
Household No:   89   
Name:   Kirsten Nielsdatter   
Age:   67      Civil status:   Gift   
Occupation:   hans kone   
Parish:   Grundfør   District:   Vester Lisbjerg
Shire:   Aarhus   Place name:   Grundfør Mark
Source entry No:   B3330   Record No.:   459

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Peder Rasmussen     31     Gift          husmand, lever af sin jordlod      
Anne Marie Sørensdatter     29     Gift          hans kone      
Karen Pedersdatter     3     Ugift          deres datter      
Christen Sørensen     58     Gift          daglejer      
Kirsten Nielsdatter     67     Gift          hans kone      

I am wondering if I have the wrong death record for Søren Frandsen?  Maybe he died before 1814 when the parish records were not available?  Given how quickly people married after the death of a spouse I am thinking he might have died in 1813?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

#1
I think I may have answered my question.

Probate Søren Frandsen here bottom left: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193360#193360,32416360

In Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark 12 Aug 1814.  His widow is Kirsten Nielsdatter.

Does it say when or where he was born or to whom?

I found a transcription as follows here: https://www.brejl.dk/arhusgejst.html

12 Kirsten Hansdatter i Søften. 7.11.1782, fol.40B.
E: Peder Sørensen, skoleholder i Søften. A:
1) moster, død, [var g.m. Søren Mikkelsen i Søften]. 4B:
a Mikkel Sørensen i Søften
b Niels Sørensen i Søften
c Maren Sørensen g.m. Frands Sørensen i Søften
d Anne Sørensdatter, enke i Søften ved søn Jens Sørensen sst.
2) mors halvsøster, død. 16B:
a Christen Clemensen i Brendstrup [i Tilst sogn]
b Christen Jensen i Pannerup [i Trige sogn]
c Jens Jensen i Hæst [i Trige sogn]
d Kirsten Jensdatter g.m. Jens Murer i Storring
e Anne Marie Christensdatter i Århus
f Kirsten Frandsdatter i Århus, enke efter en matros
g Søren Frandsen i Grundfør
h Christen Frandsen i Hinnerup [i Grundfør sogn]
i Mads Frandsen i Tinning [i Folby sogn]
j Frands Frandsen i Kvolbæk [i Skjød sogn]
k Birthe Frandsdatter i Kvolbæk
l Else Frandsdatter i Fillerup [i Odder sogn]
m Anne Sørensdatter
(Fol.40 mangler og dermed resten ar arvingerne).

Inger Toudal

#2
Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 15 Feb 2020 - 03:45

Probate Søren Frandsen here bottom left: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193360#193360,32416360

In Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark 12 Aug 1814.  His widow is Kirsten Nielsdatter.

Does it say when or where he was born or to whom?

- I read the date as 12 Jul. 1814. No info about place of birth or parents.

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 15 Feb 2020 - 02:47
Hello,

My Kirsten Nielsdatter was born around 1767 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark and apparently died 7 Feb 1847 in Ørup, Rosmos, Djurs Sønder, Randers, Denmark.

Her age at death says 83 but something I did not know was that she was apparently a widow of Christan Sørensen and Niels Sørensen.  She is the daughter of Niels Jensen in Grundfør.

Death #1 here 7 Feb 1847: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21585578#368926,70718556

- she's living with her son-in-law (hos Svigersønnen Niels Sørensen). In the 1845 Census, she's Opholdskone = Aftægtskone (not divorced).
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Parish registers for Grundfør before 1814 were destroyed in a fire 1887: https://dis-danmark.dk/intro/danmarks_kirkeboeger.pdf

"Grundfør (V. Lisbjærg H.). F 1814-91; K 1814-91; V 1814-91; D 1814- gl.

Pgd. brændte 17. April 1887 og med den de fleste Kbgr. Kbg, 1814-42 og 1855-60 er Afskrift af Kmbg."

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Thank you Inger.  How sad to read about parish records destroyed in a fire.

Thank you for clarifying that she is living with her son-in-law Niels Sørensen.  I should have put two and two together on that but I thought it read 'husband' for some reason.

So this ties Birgethe Marie Søresndatter to Niels Sørensen as his wife (per my other thread) but I have the father of Kirsten Nielsdatter as Niels Frandsen and his name looks like Niels Jensen in the death record.

Inger Toudal

#4
Birthe Marie's confirmation 1817 in Grundfør parish: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391775,74288682 - No 7

- stepfather Christen Sørensen in Grundfør

Daughters Birthe Marie, Ane Marie and Charlotte Lovise are mentioned in the probate 1814.

Anne Marie's confirmation 1820: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391775,74288683 - No 2

- born 11 Oct. 1805

Charlotte Lovise Cathrine's confirmation 1823 on the same page, No 5

- born 30 Mar. 1809

1801 Census, Grundfør: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1126057

- son is called Stephan Christian Sørensen

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Citat fra: Rebecca Johnson Dato 15 Feb 2020 - 19:29
but I have the father of Kirsten Nielsdatter as Niels Frandsen and his name looks like Niels Jensen in the death record.

Husband not father.  So her "father" is Niels Jensen?

Thank you Inger.  I had the 1801 Census but nothing else.

I had a son Frands Sørensen born 29 Jul 1808 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark but this makes it almost medically impossible for Charlotte Lovise Kathrine to be born 30 Mar 1809 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark 8 months later and he is not mentioned in the probate record.

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 15 Feb 2020 - 20:01

Charlotte Lovise Cathrine's confirmation 1823 on the same page, No 5

- born 30 Mar. 1809

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Inger

I am thinking she must be the mother of the following children, including a set of twins (she has 2 sets of twins as siblings).

Peder Rasmussen birth 22 Jun 1832 #11 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391770,74288568

Søren Sørensen (twin) birth 17 Sep 1835 #14 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391770,74288576

Anna Cathrine Sørensdatter (twin) birth 17 Sep 1835 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391774,74288666

But I cannot find her or her son on the 1834 Census in Grundfør?

Inger Toudal

#8
Could be here:

Aarhus, Hasle, Sønder Aarslev, Aarslev Bye, Præstegaarden, 1, FT-1834, B3326
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:     
Villads Kasbjerg Assens     49     gift            Sognepræst       
Ane Elisabeth Kjerstine Knudsen     37     gift            hans Kone       
Sophie Erasmine Assens     10     ugift            deres datter       
Marie Cathrine Assens     7     ugift            deres datter       
Thøger Assens     5     ugift            deres søn       
Hans Friderich Hyllerup Assens     2     ugift            deres søn       
Maren Frederiche Schvartz     27     ugift            Huuslærerinde       
Laurs Jensen     34     ugift            tjenestekarl       
Søren Pedersen     34     ugift            tjenestekarl       
Jens Jensen     46     ugift            tjenestekarl       
Rasmus Nielsen     26     ugift            tjenestekarl       
Peder Pedersen     17     ugift            tjenestekarl       
Charlotte Sørensdatter     25     ugift            tjenestepige       
Ane Jensdatter     25     ugift            tjenestepige       
Ane Jensdatter     27     ugift            tjenestepige       
Ane Sophie Rasmusdatter     15     ugift            tjenestepige      

Son Peder died 5 Sep. 1832: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391773,74288624 - No 13

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Inger Toudal

#9
Aww, it always makes me sad to see young children die.  It makes me think about how great medicine has advanced and that many of these young children probably would not have died had they the same medical care we enjoy today.

At the time of Søren's confirmation he is living with a Niels Pedersen as his mother has died 23 Jul 1838 in Grundfør, Vester Lisbjerg, Århus, Denmark.  He is still living with Niels Pedersen on the 1850 Census.

Søren's confirmation 1850 here in Tilst, Hasle, Århus, Denmark #4: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L94S-BHLX?i=42&cc=2078555

Year:   FT-1850   Source reference:   69   
Cadastre/Address:   en Gaard   
Household No:   44   
Name:   Søren Sørensen   
Age:   15      Civil status:   Ugift   
Birth place:   Grundfør Sogn, Aarhuus Amt   
Occupation:   Tjenestefolk   
Parish:   Tilst   District:   Hasle
Shire:   Aarhus   Place name:   Gjeding
Source entry No:   D3405   Record No.:   276

All members of the household
Name:    Age:    Married?:    Pos. in household:    Occupation:    BirTD place:
Niels Pedersen     42     Gift          Gaardmand, Huusfader     Ølsted Sogn, Aarhuus Amt 
Johanne Nielsdatter     33     Gift          hans Kone     Liisberg Sogn, Aarhuus Amt 
Peder Nielsen     8     Ugift          deres Børn     Her i Sognet [ Tilst] 
Niels Peter Nielsen     3     Ugift          deres Børn     Do [ Her i Sognet, Tilst] 
Marie Kirstine Nielsen     6     Ugift          deres Børn     Do [ Her i Sognet, Tilst] 
Mette Kirstine Nielsen     1     Ugift          deres Børn     Do [ Her i Sognet, Tilst] 
Marie Kirstine Nielsdatter     79     Enke          Mandens Moder     Liisberg Sogn, Aarhuus Amt 
Laurs Christensen     26     Gift          Tjenestefolk     Veilbye Sogn, Aarhuus Amt 
Jens Pedersen     22     Ugift          Tjenestefolk     Her i Sognet [ Tilst] 
Søren Sørensen     15     Ugift          Tjenestefolk     Grundfør Sogn, Aarhuus Amt
Karen Sørensdatter     29     Ugift          Tjenestefolk     Ølsted Sogn, Aarhuus Amt 
Ane Marie Laursen !!     16     Ugift          Tjenestefolk     Her i Sognet [ Tilst] 

Death Charlotte #12 here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21618719#391776,74288697

I did not see a confirmation for the twin sister, Anna Cathrine Sørensdatter, so I think she must have died but I do not see her in Grundfør 1835-1842.

Inger Toudal

#10
Aarhus, Hasle, Sønder Aarslev, Årslev By, bolsted, 38, 1, FT-1845, B2764
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:       Birthplace:
Hans Pedersen     36     Gift            boelsmand, lever af sin jordlod      Wibye, Aarh. 
Marie Mortensdatter     51     Gift            hans kone      Sabroe, Aarh. 
Birgithe Pedersdatter     23     Ugift            hendes datter      Tiilst, Aarh. 
Niels Pedersen     12     Ugift            hendes søn      Heri Sogn 
Ane Catrine Sørensen     9     Ugift            plejedatter under fattigforsørgelse      Grundføer, Aarh. 

Aarhus, Hasle, Sønder Aarslev, Aarslev, Gård, 15, FT-1850, C0334
Name:     Age:     Marital status:     Position in household:     Occupation:       Birthplace:
Hans Pedersen     41     Gift            Gårdmand, husfader      Viby sogn, Aarhus amt 
Maren Morthensdatter     56     Gift            Hans kone      Sabroe sogn, Aarhus amt 
Niels Pedersen     17     Ugift            Deres søn      Her i sognet 
Ane Katr: Sørensdatter     15     Ugift            Deres plejedatter      Grundfør sogn, Aarhus amt 

Confirmation 1850: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21618771#416654,76634060 - No 2

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Inger
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Inger Toudal

Oh, thank you Inger!  I thought for sure she had died young.