James Peterson (born 1839) and Marie Jensen (born 1841) in the US

[Anders M. Petersen]

Good evening Forum!

I am writing in English, since I am helping an American to trace his Danish ancestors.
We have very little information and some very ordinary names.

James Peterson
Born 15 March 1840 in Denmark
Died 3 October 1918 in Kansas City, Missouri, USA

Marie Jensen (Jensen undocumented)
Born June 1841 in Denmark
Died 25 June 1901 in Kansas City, Missouri, USA

First clue is the US 1900 census for Kansas City:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY73-3H5?i=7&cc=1325221&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM3C1-QHQ

It states that they both came to the US in 1872 and that they have been married for 30 years (so since 1870).
This must mean that they were married in Denmark and most probably arrived to the US together.
It also states that James Peterson was born in March 1840 and Mary in June 1841.

Second clue is this obituary: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/58315651/james-peterson
It puts James birthday to 15th of March 1840 (see death certificate information) but also gives a second clue: "He is survived by a daughter, Mrs. O. C. Clevers, 3129 Tauromee Avenue, Kansas side; a son, James Peterson, of the home address, and a brother, Peter Peterson, Chicago"

We are sure that the above information is regarding the same persons - and the right persons too!
But that is all we have!

I have tried Castle Garden, more US censuses, Danish Folketællinger, Udvandrerdatabasen, Ancestry Danish churchbooks etc, but I can not find them?

Anybody with better skills?
Thanks, Anders

[Karsten Damén]

hi Anders

Is there a reasoning behind not posting the 1910 US Census ?
I believe this must be "your" James Petersen:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVG-JJ?i=11&cc=1727033&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM2YC-MB4
I did note that year of immigration is listed as 1867 in the 1910 census, but the rest fits.

Please also note in the 1900 census the couple Charles & Elisabeth Clever living next door to James and Mary Petersen.
With reference to the daughter Mrs O. C. Clever mentioned in the newpaper clipping on Find A Grave.
This couple later moved to Colorado; US Census 1920:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MX2H-P1S

Karsten

[Anders M. Petersen]

Hi Karsten!

The reason is that I did not make the same conclusion as you did - and you are right!

That sadly means that they either emigrated in 1867 or 1872 - or the years in between.
I also notice that in the obituary it says "Mr. Peterson, a native of Denmark, had lived in Missouri fifty years" which would give the year 1868 if taken literally.

My contact has everything after James and Mary Petersen, so all we need is to find James and Mary on Danish ground - from there things should be easy!

Thanks Anders

[Karsten Damén]

all we need is to find James and Mary on Danish ground

You forgot this smiley at the end

There are many uncertainties in the data your American friend has provided, like:
-  year of immigration; 1872 vs. 1867
-  year of birth for James Petersen; 1839 (headstone) vs. 1840 (census and death certificate)
-  year of birth for Marie; 1842 (headstone) vs. 1841 (census)
-  surname Jensen for Marie (documentation ?)
-  what was the Danish name of "James" (could be "Jens" obviously, but I've seen "Jørgen" and "Jep" turn into "James" too)
-  where are they in the 1880 census for Missouri (or Kansas)?

The reason I took interest in the children James and Elisabeth was that I wanted to see if any marriage records were available with their parents' names.

There are huge gaps between the supposed marriage in 1870 and the birth of the children in 1876 and 1881.  My guess is that there could be missing (dead) children in-between.

Back to 1880.  Did you find the family in that census ?

Karsten

[Anders M. Petersen]

I think I have tried everything that is possible in FamilySearch without any clear results - but I have found this family in Kansas city 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBX-5ZR?i=13&cc=1417683&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM6XZ-QXH

- almost right birth years for the parents
- James works for the railroad (as in the FT 1910 census)
- but different name for Mary (maybe Marie Katrine?)
- a son James born ~1877
- a daughter "Elisha" (Elisabeth?), but the age does not fit with the 19 years in the 1900 census and 38 years in the 1920 census, but maybe she died soon after the census and then Elisabeth was born in 1881-1882?
- but there are also 2 other children born in Denmark?

If this is the same family, then one of the parents (or both) came to the US with children?
That could be Mary / Marie Katrines children since the obituary of James only mentions (his) two children?
So maybe I should try to trace Mary and her two children in Denmark?

Or is the 1880 and 1910 James a different James than the 1900 James?

Not an easy one!

[Karsten Damén]

I think I have tried everything that is possible in FamilySearch without any clear results - but I have found this family in Kansas city 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBX-5ZR?i=13&cc=1417683&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AM6XZ-QXH

That's what I was afraid of 

As a matter of fact I found that one, but also another similar 1880 census record from Kansas city:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6XC-GZF

These records differ by date of enumeration (4th vs. 10th of June), so in theory the family could have moved inbetween.
Notable differences are:
- name of wife/mother
- age of James Petersen Jr.
- sex of the youngest child Leesa/Elisha

If you leave room for some mishearings/misunderstandings due to language problems, this could very well be the same family. In both cases James Petersen Sr. is listed as a railroad worker like in 1900 and 1910.

The two older children, Anne and Peter, could as you suggest be children of Marie from an earlier relationship.
But you should not exclude the possibility that they in fact are younger siblings or half siblings to James Petersen Sr. There may be some judicial implications e.g. that they were granted citizenship with James Petersen and his family if listed as children!

Karsten

[Karsten Damén]

There's one emigration record I nearly forgot about.

Navn:    Petersen, Peter   Stilling:    Tyende (m/k land)
Alder:    16   Bestemmelsessted:    Kansas City, Mo.
Kontrakt nr.:    35300   Forevisningsdato:    05-04-1880
Sidste oph.sogn:    Horbelev (Falster)   Sidste oph. amt:    Maribo
Sidste oph.sted:    Meelse, Maribo A.   Bestemmelses land:    USA
Bestemmelses by:    Kansas City   Bestemmelses stat:    Missouri
Skibsnavn:    Thingvalla      
IDkode:    D7181P2306      

Going to Kansas City in due time to be included in the 1880 census.
And the only Peter Petersen fitting that age (found in the 1880 census for the whole of Missoury) is the one listed in the two records with James Petersen Sr. as head!

Worthy of a closer look.

Karsten

[Anders M. Petersen]

Hi Karsten!

Thanks for keeping on!

I am also sure that it is the same family counted twice - so much that I just thought that the same page had simply been indexed twice and did not notice that it is a completely different census count! The father James also works "at the railroad" in both censuses.

The Peter from Horbelev is sadly not our guy - he is in Horbelev in the February 1880 census as "born in this parish" and can only be the Peter Petersen born in Horbelev 20 Dec 1863 by unmarried Birthe Nielsdatter.

I also looked through all "Petersen, Pe" and "Pedersen, Pe" in the Udvandrerarkivet 1867-1880 who where about the right age. Then checked the ticket of each of them to see who they traveled with, looking for a slightly older sister "Ane" and a mother "Marie" or "Katrine" (and maybe more siblings and maybe a husband). It took some time (!) and there were a few interesting ones - but no one that was close enough.

Is this one really unsolvable?

[Verner Bentsen]

I have also seen Hans converted to James.

mvh Verner

[Karsten Damén]

I have also seen Hans converted to James.

Quite unusual. 
"Hans " would often become "John" - most people probably being aware that "Hans" originates from "Johannes" as do "John".

However, I managed to find my list of name transitions that I built over the years.

I've encountered James originating from:
- Jens
- Julius
- Jacob
- Jørgen
- Jochum
- Jonas
- Jes
- Jep/b

[Karsten Damén]

Anders

There's one more immigration record you need to take a look at.

A James Petersen, age 23, born in Denmark, arriving i NY 1863 via Liverpool:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV33-KGQW
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-529L-7F?i=74&cc=1849782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV33-KGQW

I guess this guy decided to switch his name even before entering the USA 
A closer look at the record reveals that he was travelling with a group of young men, all "mechanics".  Likely they were hired by a big company or organization - like a railroad company ?

[Anders M. Petersen]

Thanks Karsten!

And that could be him too, but it would not fit with the stated emigration years (1867 or 1872), but these seems to be rather insecure anyway.
The January 1864 date also conflicts slightly with Anne (born ~1863) and Peter (born ~1864), unless this James left his pregnant wife in Denmark. On the other hand, if Marie came to the US much later that would perfectly explain that the next child in the family is James (1875 or 1877) - and would also fit with a 1872 emigration year for Marie. One could wonder if it was James who responded in the first 1880 census, stating his emigration year and Marie in the second 1880 census - language difficulties could be the reason of the differences.

The sad thing is that the "Udvandrerarkivet" starts in 1868 so we can not trace this 1863 James back to Denmark.
I think my only chance is to find a suitable combination of "Marie", "Anne" and "Peter" in the Danish 1870 census and then see if they went to the US...

Just an additional information: My American contact states that he has a DNA match with a person descending from an "Anne Peterson" from Kansas city, so at least we got that explained by the 1880 census!

Thanks again
Anders

[Karsten Damén]

Just an additional information: My American contact states that he has a DNA match with a person descending from an "Anne Peterson" from Kansas city, so at least we got that explained by the 1880 census!

And your first reaction was of course to ask him if he had any further information of Anne like birth, year of immigration, marriage, name of husband, census records, death record, gravesite etc.  ?? 

regards Karsten

[Anders M. Petersen]

Still working on this while trying to get ready for Christmas 

My American contact sent me this one that he found yesterday: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L94W-5QCH?i=3&cc=2078555
Jens Pedersen born Hammer sogn, Præstø on 15th of March 1840 - suits the death certificate date perfectly!
And the mother is called Elisabeth - just like his first daugther in the US (and maybe his first daugther?).
Looks promising!

He was baptized by the local teacher on the day of birth due to ill health, but I can find him in Hammer in the 1850 census with his mother (now a widow)  but then I loose him. I have some trouble accessing the censuses today, so it is a bit difficult.

BTW the census shows two Jens Pedersen born in Hammer in 1840, so it is important to identify the right Jens in later censuses!

I have his military record (lægdsrulle) here in 1842 as #432 (to #347): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17516#17516,813946
1845 as #347 (to #280): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17527#17527,818580

But I loose him here in 1848 (should be #280) as they change the age of conscription to 15 years :-/
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17541#17541,823648

Last trace for now is his konfirmation in 1854 (#8): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913141#428806,78533501

Anybody with more luck?
Thanks!

[Anders M. Petersen]

The Jens Pedersen in Vester Egesborg in the 1860 census is "the other" Jens Pedersen:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17565#17565,833852

[Verner Bentsen]

Are these the Jens & Marie you are looking for ?

Vester Egesborg parish:
Marriage #4: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429443,78557590
Jens Pedersen & Marie Jensdatter married 24 may 1861
Jens vacc. 2 july 1840; like in the confirmation record.
Marie vacc. 4 july 1842 like in the confirmation record.

Marie Jensdatter born 22 jun 1841; like in the 1900 census:
Birth: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429436,78557360
Conf #3: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429440,78557524

mvh Verner

[Anders M. Petersen]

Hej Verner!

That looks very interesting!
I am on my phone now, but I will give it a better look soon.

If we can find a son Peter and a daughter Anne born 1864-1865 we have the right persons!

Very fine find - thanks!
Anders

[Anders M. Petersen]

He IS our guy!

He is here in the military record, arriving to Vester Egesborg 1860: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=17567#17567,834930

In November 1865 he is sent to 22nd battalion
In March 1866 he is sentenced to 18 months for ???

This could explain that he leaves for the US and that there is a break before Marie joins him.

On top of that, they have a daughter Ane Jensdatter born 25th of July 1862 (#6, top): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429437,78557407

And a son Peder Jacob Jensen born 15th of February 1865 (#3 in 1865): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429435,78557283

So everything is pretty normal until march 1866, where Jens Pedersen gets sentenced (who can find out for what?)
He most probably escapes to the US and leaves Marie behind with the two children.

She later joins him in the US with the children and James and Elisabeth are then born there - true love 

Thank you to Karsten and to Verner for great help!
With this data we can easily go back 1-3 generations more.

But first, we have to find out what happened in 1866!

Thanks!
Anders

[Verner Bentsen]

So everything is pretty normal until march 1866, where Jens Pedersen gets sentenced (who can find out for what?)

theft !!

Verner

[Verner Bentsen]

Another daughter Maren Jensdatter born 1866 #10 ?

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429437,78557410

Verner

[Anders M. Petersen]

Thanks Verner!

Now I can read: "Ved Dom 12/3-66 idømt 18 mdr Forb. Arb. for Tyveri efter Næstved By og ?kontor skr. 2/8 66. ? efter §5."

So: "After sentence of 12th of March 1866 judged to 18 months of enforced labour for theft according to notice from the Office of ? in the city of Næstved dated 2. of August 1866".

As far as I can see, we can not see that sentence online?
https://arkivalielister.dis-danmark.dk/ao_alt_vis_navne.php?stil=2&navn=N%C3%A6stved+Byfoged%25&sort=a

Thanks, Anders

And thanks for Maren!

[Lars Skovvang Larsen]

Excellent cooperation.

Allow me to contribute with som ancestors to Jens Pedersen.
See Attached file.

Haven´t had the time to look at his wifes ancestral line yet.

Lars

[Anders M. Petersen]

Thank you Lars!

I am now on holiday, but will sum up all our findings when I am back home.

We also have to find out what happened to Maren.

Merry Christmas everyone - and thanks!
Anders

[Anders M. Petersen]

This is how far I got on the Danish ancestry of James and Marie.
Lars Skovvang found some more detailed data on some of the lines (see his post above), so his file is important to include.

Ancestry of Jens Petersen:

Jens Pedersen, born 15th of March 1840 in Hammer: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913141#428802,78533266 
(He had a twin sister Ane Petersen: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913141#428804,78533403)

2G: Parents of Jens Pedersen (born 1840):

Father "Parcellist" (small farmer) Peder Thorkildsen, born 11th of April 1790 in Hammer, Præstø: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115617#150776,25006329

Mother Elisabeth Pedersdatter, born 6th of July 1805 in Hammer, Præstø:   https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115617#150776,25006353

3G: Parents of Peder Thorkildsen (born 1790):

Father small farmer Torkild Pedersen, born not in Hammer ~1763

Mother Bodil Henrichsdatter, born 9th of November 1766 in Hammer Præstø: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115617#150776,25006286

3G: Parents of Elisabeth Pedersdatter (born 1805):

Father farmer Peder Olesen, born ~1752 in Hammer (churchbook missing baptisms for that year), father Ole Andersen

Mother Marie Christophersdatter, born ~1787 in Køng (neighboring parish to Hammer, churchbooks missing before 1813), father Christopher Madsen


Ancestry of Marie Jensdatter:

Marie Jensdatter, born 22nd of June 1841 in Vester Egesborg (neighboring parish to Hammer): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429436,78557360

2G: Parents of Marie Jensdatter (born 1841):

Father butcher Jens Andersen, born 24th of April 1808 in Lundby (neighboring parish to Hammer): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17117057#153380,25551258

Mother Karen Marie Jensdatter, born 1812-1814 in Stenstrup in Rønnebæk (still close to Hammer)

Marriage of the Jens and Karen Marie here (20th of November 1834): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913177#429442,78557563

3G: Parents of Jens Andersen (born 1808):

Father is farmer Anders Jacobsen - can not be found in the 1801 and 1834 censuses?
Mother ?

3G: Parents of Karen Marie Jensdatter (born 1812-1814):

I am unable to find any trace of Karen Marie Jensdatter in Rønnebæk og Vester Egesborg parishes :-(


As you see, I was not very lucky with the grandparents of Marie.
Maybe somebody else has bette luck (I am still searching!).

Thanks for all the help!
Anders

[Lars Skovvang Larsen]

Concerning Karen Marie Jensdatter, born around 1813.

I haven´t been able to find her baptism under the name KAREN MARIE in Rønnebæk sogn.
In at least 4 censuses - 1845, ´50, ´55 and ´60 - it is clearly stated that she is born i Stenstrup, Rønnebæk sogn.

I have a feeling that she is the KAREN, daughter af husmand Jens Jørgensen in Stenstrup - baptised on the 9th of August 1812.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=155223#155223,25927714
I haven´t found the confirmation of that Karen Jensdatter in Rønnebæk churchbook.

Possible mariage of the above mentioned Jens Jørgensen:
1801, Rønnebæk sogn: Jens Jørgensen and Bodil Christensdatter. Best men Niels Sørensen and Anders Jensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=155223#155223,25927536

Census 1787: Jens Jørgensen could very well be the 9 years old servant at the farm of Anders Jensen i Stenstrup.
Another guess: Anders Jensen i Stenstrup could be the brother of husmand Jørgen Jensen in Stenstrup, that very well could be the father of Jens Jørgensen.

Bodil Christensdatter: Probably seen as daughter of Cathrine Sørensdatter i Stenstrup. Census 1801. Bodil then 22 years.

Many ifs and maybes - just meant as an inspiration.

Lars

[Anders M. Petersen]

Thanks to Lars for yet a contribution to this thread.

I can see that you tried the same sources as I did, and Karen, daugther of Jens Jørgensen, is a good candidate.
However, this would be the first time that I would see a "new" middle name (Marie) that was not stated at the baptism, so I am not 100% sure this is the right one. On the other hand, I have no better candidates.

I am going through some busy weeks now, but will see if I can make these clues fit.

Thank you!
Anders

[Lars Skovvang Larsen]

I have a few times seen extra "middle" or given names pup up later in life.
I guess it can be explained by the writer of the church book forgetting to write e.g. Marie in Anne Marie - or the parrents not stating clearly or forgetting to tell that the child should be named Anne Marie and not only Anne.

Along the same line it´s not rare seeing given names change order - as in Jens Hannibald Georg Hansen changing to Jens Georg Hannibal Hansen.

Lars