Forfatter Emne: Completing my story for Lars Peter Jensen  (Læst 256 gange)

Matthew Dent

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Completing my story for Lars Peter Jensen
« Dato: 01 Dec 2019 - 22:43 »
Hello everyone,

I'm sorry if this is long, I've bolded my questions if the details are unnecessary or you're not interested.

Firstly, a big thank you to everyone. I've been getting a tremendous amount of help with my Danish relatives from here and I'm glad to say that I'm nearing the point where I can begin to start writing some things down as a narrative (which was my goal in the first place). The first person I will write about is my 2x great grandfather Lars Peter Jensen, who emigrated to the US from the Aalborg area in 1909. Some of his story is known to my family, but it is also mostly based on hearsay from his children (now long deceased) and some distant Danish cousins. This information was published within the family but, as it is based on information gathered in the late 60s, naturally it is mostly incomplete/wrong. So, in order to iron out some details I'm hoping to have a discussion about some aspects of his life.

1. Lars was the illegitimate child of a woman named Johanna Marie Kathrine Larsen and a man named Ole Jensen from Tranholm. He was born in 1884. I've previously posted about Ole in this forum and have come to the conclusion that he ran away around the same time that she got pregnant, either by joining the navy or emigrating somewhere. Ole's family were landowners in the area north of Aalborg and had been for many generations, while Johanne was a (quite) poor servant girl working in Tranholm village at the time. Is it possible that impregnating a servant girl was so scandalous at the time that he would have left the country rather than face the shame?

2. According to the lægdsrulle, Lars was in Sønder Tranders sogn, Hvorup sogn, and Romdrup sogn near Aalborg between the years of 1901 and 1906. I presume that this was because he was a servant on farms there, most importantly a large farm called Postgaard which still exists today. However, I have no idea exactly where he was. I'm aware of something called the Skudsmålsbog, which could help if I had it, but as far as I know those were kept personally and not deposited in some archive so lord knows if it has survived (it could even still be with his brother's or sister's descendants in Denmark). Are there other sources I could consult to find where a farm servant have been working?

3. In relation to number 2, I was also wondering if perhaps it's possible that he was changing his parish in the military rolls between 1901 and 1906 not because he was working elsewhere but for other military reasons?

4. According to the old family story, Lars officially served in the Danish Army between 1907 and 1908, for almost exactly 1 year. This is confirmed by the fact that we have both a photo of him in his uniform and of his company and because we (or rather, someone in my family...) have his Soldaterbog which I've uploaded in that PDF file. Unfortunately, I only have a scan of a copy of a copy of one page of this book. I was wondering if someone could explain what kind of information is present in this document and whether or not there's anything interesting?  Best I could tell, he was a private or whatever the Danish equivalent is, with the 9th battalion (whatever that is).

5. Again according to the family story, Lars was proud of his military service. Yet, he appears to have left Denmark without reporting it to the military authorities, I think, because in 1910 I'm fairly certain it says in the lægdsrulle that he failed to show up (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=16481029#188705,31894168). If you were leaving or emigrating, were you obligated to tell the military authorities?

6. Also related to military service. According to his daughter, Lars traveled to Greenland, Iceland, and Russia as a young man (possibly with the army?). Also according to her, when asked why he left for America he reportedly told her that he did not want to serve in the army and be sent to Russia. This would have been around 1909. As far as I know, Denmark was a neutral country and was not in any kind of conflict with its neighbors. Would there have been any reason for him, as a low ranking soldier in the Danish Army, be worried about having to go to Russia? Was there some kind of diplomatic or trade tension? What military records might I consult to figure out what his battalion was up to at the time?  My hypothesis is that this is just a story and that he left for America, in reality, because his uncles had already left and offered to pay for him to do so as well.

7. Apparently, he sent a postcard while he was in the Army from something called the Borris Army Camp. Is this just a training camp?

Again sorry this is long, but I'm looking forward to any discussion these questions might bring about. Also, I have a tremendous amount of source material for Lars so if there's anything you would like to look at I'll post it. The PDF I've attached contains the story that was written way back when about him. His eldest daughter Marie Christine was my great grandmother.
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #1 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 13:23 »
Hi Matthew
I am able to answer nr. 5.
As remarks it says ,he has not shown up since 10.9. 1912, (Udeblev siden 10/9129), And has been called in for the army court. = (Tilt. milit. Ret)

And that also answers your question about emigrate while you are in the army. One could not do that, at least one should have the armys permission to do it, and also one are not allowed to leave without permission, that is desertation- which he actually has done.

In 1909 became 9.Batteri 3rd batteri which was annullated in 1923. I do not know where it had its quartier.

In 1909 We had the "first Balkanwar", but Denmark was very occupied with its own defence, and in the early 1900ties they build defenses in Copenhagen etc. Of course it was crises in most of Europe and we had had the Russian-Japanese war which ended in 1908, and Denmark had troubles with Germany and wanted to keep their  fleet out of Østersøen (Eastersea) , But I do not beleive that the 9th or 3rd Batteri have ever been in Russia during that time. They had to defense Denmark - and because of the German-French war we wanted to be strictly neutral in the European crise.
If he has been in Greenland etc. it has not been as a soldier. But of course the crise situation in Europe effected people and one was anxiuos about we should be involved in war.

Greetings
Grethe
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Judith Olsen

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« Svar #2 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 14:39 »
Hi Matthew

The answer til no. 7 is that Borris Army Camp was a training camp.

Here is a picture from 1912:

https://arkiv.dk/vis/4487394

Venlig hilsen
Judith Olsen
Terslev, 4690 Haslev
judith@olsen.mail.dk

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #3 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 15:51 »
9th Bataljon (= Infantry) should have had its garrison in Ålborg! 
[It says 9. Batl. in lægdsrullerne]

Found his lægdsrulle (Tillægsrulle 1904) in Sønder Tranders = Lægd 424.
nr: 23
9. Bataljon. Met: 10th of April 1907.
From 5 - 443 - Ø? - 19 [Lægd 443 = Hvorup in 5. Udskrivningskreds]. Fits you found him in Hvorup in 1902. [Ø is code for 1902].
To 421 - F - 367 [To Lægd lægd 421 = Ålborg Købstad]. Fits that he moved to the garrison in Ålborg. [F is code for 1908]
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=188680#188680,31884800

Tillægsrulle 1908 for Ålborg = Lægd 321.
nr 367:
U.A [Udskrivnings Aar] 1907. [So he first entered the military in 1907]
From: 5-424 [Sønder Tranders]-B-23 [the tillægsrulle above] [B is code for 1904]
9. Baltaljon.
Met: 10th of April 1907. Sendt home: 10th of June 1908.
Met: 10th of September 1912 (!!) : Send home: U...? [Probably "Udeblivelse"] ??
"2 dages vagtarrest for tjenesteforseelse" [so he got two days, where he couldn't leave a room, for some misdemeanour in service].
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=20034#20034,1703934

Vagtarrest is like "being grounded" in english.
See: https://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=vagtarrest 

So it seems he was back in Denmark in 1912, but then "disappeared" from the army.
Was his postcard from Borris army camp from 1907-1908 or from 1912-1913?
« Senest redigeret: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:08 af Niels Just Rasmussen »

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #4 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:22 »
Military Law of 1912:

§ 44.
Den, der er udskreven, men endnu ikke mødt til Tjeneste ved nogen Afdeling, såvel som den,
der hører til Hærens eller Søværnets Mandskab, kan ikke rejse ud af Landet
, uden at i første
Tilfælde Justitsministerens – for værnepligtige med Søfartsbog dog en Udskrivningschefs -, i sidste
Tilfælde Krigsministeriets, henholdsvis Marineministeriets Tilladelse dertil er ham meddelt.
Fra de her anførte Bestemmelser kan der ved kongelig Anordning foretages Afvigelser for de
Lov af 13. juni 1912 om Værnepligt 12
Årgange af Mandskab, som i de forskellige Landsdele ikke ved Mobilisering skulle møde ved
Linieafdelinger.
Overtrædelser af de ifølge denne Paragraf gældende Bestemmelser straffes l Fredstid med
Bøder fra 20 Kr. til 200 Kr., men i Krigstid med Fængsel
, alt for så vidt Handlingen ikke efter den
militære Lovgivning medfører større Straf.
For så vidt vedkommendes Tjenesteforhold medfører det, bliver han at dømme militær Ret.
Hvad der i denne og de to næstforudgående Paragraffer er fastsat om Rejser til Udlandet,
gælder også om Rejser til Færøerne, Island og de danske Besiddelser udenfor Europa.
Source(p. 11-12): http://www.salldata.dk/love/love/Vaernepligtslov_1912.pdf

So since he already is in the army [udskreven] and part of a bataljon [hærens mandskab] it must be this punishment above that is applicable.
A fine of 20 to 200 kroner in peacetime and jail during war, since he is not allowed to leave the country. 

EDIT: I see that the "Omskrivningsrulle" for 1908 you found from Ålborg, clearly states that he didn't show up in September 1912 - so the 1908 tillægsrulle was pretty unclear about this.
« Senest redigeret: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:37 af Niels Just Rasmussen »

Matthew Dent

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« Svar #5 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:40 »
Thanks! I'm getting a clearer picture though now have more questions about his military record.

a: I'm starting to rethink my hypothesis that he left Denmark for primarily economic reasons, and that he may have also been concerned about tensions between the Scandinavian countries and Germany/Russia in the Baltic and didn't want to stay on the off-chance he had to fight (so, maybe he wasn't as proud of his service as his children were led to believe...)

b. the postcard was dated from 1907.

c. According to the family story, Lars never went back to Denmark after he came in 1909 and never saw his parents again. However, Niels, you are saying that he met with the company in 1912 and was summarily punished for having left the country? Does that explain the 2 days of confinement that he received or was that probably for a separate incident? (I see the year 1907 written next to the misconduct note though).
- Matthew

Matthew Dent

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« Svar #6 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:44 »
The size limit on attachments means that I can't upload the full thing here. Here is a link to view the set of information that I inherited about Lars (except the Ancestry.com pages, which were done by me).

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Am8qQQmJXl5dhL1CIRBt4hieY6en6g
- Matthew

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #7 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:45 »
Thanks! I'm getting a clearer picture though now have more questions about his military record.

a: I'm starting to rethink my hypothesis that he left Denmark for primarily economic reasons, and that he may have also been concerned about tensions between the Scandinavian countries and Germany/Russia in the Baltic and didn't want to stay on the off-chance he had to fight (so, maybe he wasn't as proud of his service as his children were led to believe...)

b. the postcard was dated from 1907.

c. According to the family story, Lars never went back to Denmark after he came in 1909 and never saw his parents again. However, Niels, you are saying that he met with the company in 1912 and was summarily punished for having left the country? Does that explain the 2 days of confinement that he received or was that probably for a separate incident? (I see the year 1907 written next to the misconduct note though).

It was my mistake from the unclear 1908 tillægsrulle - the "omskrivningsrulle" clearly state that he DIDN'T show up in the 1912, and since your postcard is from 1907 it seems pretty clear that he left Denmark for good in 1909 (and was therefor a deserter), which would have meant he would have received a big fine if he had returned to Denmark.
The two days being grounded must have been done in his army service of 1907-1908.

The looming 1st world war could very well be the reason to get away from Denmark - as people really feared a German attack.

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #8 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 16:59 »

1. Lars was the illegitimate child of a woman named Johanna Marie Kathrine Larsen and a man named Ole Jensen from Tranholm. He was born in 1884. I've previously posted about Ole in this forum and have come to the conclusion that he ran away around the same time that she got pregnant, either by joining the navy or emigrating somewhere. Ole's family were landowners in the area north of Aalborg and had been for many generations, while Johanne was a (quite) poor servant girl working in Tranholm village at the time. Is it possible that impregnating a servant girl was so scandalous at the time that he would have left the country rather than face the shame?

This depends very much on where in Denmark you lived and on the social background.
As I have learned, farmers in Jutland didn't care at all -> if you have two good working hands, so what?
There are many examples of illegitimate children in Jutland making a career and being succesfull (they are being hired and not shunned).
It came as a big surprise to me when I researched my ancestors from Jutland, in contrary to my ancestors from Copenhagen where such things were so shameful, you never discussed it and kept family secrets away from the next generations.

If you were from a social standing ("borgere") it was big stigma, where young girls often were send "away on vacation" (often to Jutland), gave birth there and returned home to the family with the child being given away to a family for adoption.

As Lars if from Northern Jutland it really depends who his parents and rest of family were?!   


About Skudsmålsbog: If you don't have, it it's not likely you can ever figure it out.
A few records of "tjenestetyende" do exist, but not many.
See list from daisy: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskaber_eller_arkivserie_liste?c=tyendeprotokoller&d=1&e=2019
A few of the "skudsmålsbøger" have been handed in to local museums, but you need to be very lucky to have it preserved that way.
List from daisy: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskaber_eller_arkivserie_liste?c=skudsm%C3%A5lsb%C3%B8ger&d=1&e=2019
« Senest redigeret: 02 Dec 2019 - 17:13 af Niels Just Rasmussen »

Matthew Dent

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« Svar #9 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:03 »
Citér
It was my mistake from the unclear 1908 tillægsrulle - the "omskrivningsrulle" clearly state that he DIDN'T show up in the 1912, and since your postcard is from 1907 it seems pretty clear that he left Denmark for good in 1909 (and was therefor a deserter), which would have meant he would have received a big fine if he had returned to Denmark.
The two days being grounded must have been done in his army service of 1907-1908.

The looming 1st world war could very well be the reason to get away from Denmark - as people really feared a German attack.

I suppose that makes more sense - sort of a go and never look back moment. I wonder what he did to get in trouble for two days. Oh the mysteries, haha. Just as a curiosity, I'm guessing 20-200 krone was a lot of money?
- Matthew

Matthew Dent

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« Svar #10 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:08 »
This depends very much on where in Denmark you lived and on the social background.
As I have learned, farmers in Jutland didn't care at all -> if you have two good working hands, so what?
There are many examples of illegitimate children in Jutland making a career and being succesfull (they are being hired and not shunned).
It came as a big surprise to me when I researched my ancestors from Jutland, in contrary to my ancestors from Copenhagen where such things were so shameful, you never discussed it and kept family secrets away from the next generations.

If you were from a social standing ("borgere") it was big stigma, where young girls often were send "away on vacation" (often to Jutland), gave birth there and returned home to the family with the child being given away to a family for adoption.

As Lars if from Northern Jutland it really depends who his parents and rest of family were?!   


About Skudsmålsbog: If you don't have, it it's not likely you can ever figure it out.
A few records of "tjenestetyende" do exist, but not many.
See list from daisy: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskaber_eller_arkivserie_liste?c=tyendeprotokoller&d=1&e=2019
A few of the "skudsmålsbøger" have been handed in to local museums, but you need to be very lucky to have it preserved that way.
List from daisy: https://www.sa.dk/daisy/arkivskaber_eller_arkivserie_liste?c=skudsm%C3%A5lsb%C3%B8ger&d=1&e=2019

I see. Yes I've definitely come across other illegitimate children in my searches. Ole, the father, was transferred to the sørulle very conveniently in 1883, right as the woman probably would have been pregnant, but I've run into a brick wall with him. Ole's family was of a slightly higher class than the mother for sure. They had worked/owned farms in the Horsens and Vester/Øster Hassing area for a couple hundred years. So, maybe even there wasn't some kind of societal pressure perhaps it was just family pressure that caused him to leave. Or, perhaps it's all just one big coincidence. We'll never know likely.

I'm working on tracking down any of his things he may have left behind to his children, they're all just scattered across the US now. Never know what you'll find!
- Matthew

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #11 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:35 »
Citér
It was my mistake from the unclear 1908 tillægsrulle - the "omskrivningsrulle" clearly state that he DIDN'T show up in the 1912, and since your postcard is from 1907 it seems pretty clear that he left Denmark for good in 1909 (and was therefor a deserter), which would have meant he would have received a big fine if he had returned to Denmark.
The two days being grounded must have been done in his army service of 1907-1908.

The looming 1st world war could very well be the reason to get away from Denmark - as people really feared a German attack.

I suppose that makes more sense - sort of a go and never look back moment. I wonder what he did to get in trouble for two days. Oh the mysteries, haha. Just as a curiosity, I'm guessing 20-200 krone was a lot of money?

With an inflation calculator from 1912:
20 kroner is ~1250 kroner today -> 185 US dollars today.
So 200 kroner ->  1850 US dollars today.
That would be a lot of money for a farm worker, when salaries were quite low back then.

It must have been a minor offence as a "vagtarrest" could be from 2-60 days.

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #12 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:45 »
Hi
I have looked up the census from 1901 and 1909 -se links
And it seems that he worked at the same farm both years- so I think that he has also been there the years inbetween.
I hope it is the right person born 10/1-1884 Lars Peter Jensen - and the censuses are Sdr. Tranders, Aalborg
1901  tells he is a "landarbejder = farmworker. The name of the farm is not mentioned, but I can see that it is a manager who runs it, so it must be a larger farm
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=22359#22359,2449524

both census tells he is unmarried- the U
and 1901 tells he has arrived from Horsens in 1900  he has a number T(or F) 63b to 63 c which I don't know what means.
1906: Says he is "Daglejer ved Agerbrug",- dayworker at a farm
here it is an inspector name Pape who runs the farm and the name is Postgaarden- as you have mentioned before.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=11951#11951,363661
« Senest redigeret: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:53 af Grethe Leerbech »
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #13 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:54 »
The name in the 1901 census is also "Postgaard" as can be seen on the previous page.
Owner is Niels Olsen.
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=22359#22359,2449523

At this time Postgården is "used" by "landbruger" Jens Martin Sørensen.
Lars Peter Jensen's latest stay in 1900 is S[ønder] Tranders (which meant he hasn't moved as Postgaarden also IS in Sønder Tranders) and he is "Landarbejder".

Article about Postgården (in Danish):
Page 12- 21.
Ownership list on page 19: Niels Olsen owns it from 1899-1915, but seems from the census 1901 and 1906 he lets other people run it.
Source: http://www.gugsoendertranders.dk/udgivelser/2008.pdf
« Senest redigeret: 02 Dec 2019 - 22:03 af Niels Just Rasmussen »

Matthew Dent

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« Svar #14 Dato: 02 Dec 2019 - 21:57 »
Yeah Postgaard was the only farm that I could definitively place him in. He moved around quite a bit in that span of a few years before joining up in the Army. Unfortunately it's the in-between stuff I can't put a name to. His mother Johanne worked in Aalborg with his step father at the time.
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #15 Dato: 03 Dec 2019 - 10:32 »
Hi Matthew

About your question conc. Ole  and Johanne and their child Lars Peter, you must remember it was (nearly) never a shame for the man, only for the woman, because  She is the one who gets pregnant - and society blamed her, that she had allowed a man to come near her. The moral was so at that time, that one didn't allow a woman to have sex before the marriage, while it was normal, that the man could have more women and sex with them. At this time - going on in many y from end of 1880ties - whe had a big discussion called "Sædelighedsfejden" but that didn't change anything in the common moral. The intellectuel discussed the sexualmoral, and the mens and womens position in the society, ex. mariage. 

But a reason for his dissapearence could be, that the young ones loved each other, and he had asked his parents to marry her, which they didn't like, so they send him away. He had to pay children money up to the boys 14 years.

I am quite sure, that Lars Peter stayed at Postgården from 1900-1906 but of course from1906 it's possible that he moved around.
« Senest redigeret: 03 Dec 2019 - 11:03 af Grethe Leerbech »
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Matthew Dent

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« Svar #16 Dato: 03 Dec 2019 - 12:49 »
But a reason for his dissapearence could be, that the young ones loved each other, and he had asked his parents to marry her, which they didn't like, so they send him away. He had to pay children money up to the boys 14 years.

Thanks Grethe,

That's interesting, I hadn't considered that option. The birth record says that he was aware/admitted to the fact that he was the father of the child. I wonder, does that imply that Ole was present for the baptism?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=356313#356313,70427089
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #17 Dato: 03 Dec 2019 - 16:42 »
No, he was not present at the baptisme. But she was minor , and therefore there must be a case in Aalborg Amt.

There is a remark at the baptism: Moderen tjente på 10 måneder før nærværende fødsel i Tranholm", which means that she served 10 month before the birth in Tranholm. The authorities should know that, because if the father didn't pay or rejected his fatherhood the authorities in the place where the mother got pregnant had to pay the alimentation (children money)  or hade the responsibility to get the money from the father.
 
Unfortunately I have only found, that alimentationscases in Aalborg amt are not digitalisezed- i have found the protocol but that doesn't help you -and I can't find the protocol in the overwiew either, only the registration protocol which contents  the Serie number and where it is placed at the rigsarkiv.
.
But here it is : Aalborg stiftamt, alimentationssager etc. Series B-3 , 5973 journalsager, 1884, Litra R nr. 56-1321
or it could be B-3, 5974 journalssager, Litra R nr. 1326-2781 
The numbers from 56 to 2781 are the numbers of the case itself. and then it says "Magasin".

How old was he, was he also minor (first when he got 24 years he could marry without his parents persmission.

Grethe

maybe someone could go and look after for you

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« Svar #18 Dato: 03 Dec 2019 - 17:20 »
No, he was not present at the baptisme. But she was minor , and therefore there must be a case in Aalborg Amt.

There is a remark at the baptism: Moderen tjente på 10 måneder før nærværende fødsel i Tranholm", which means that she served 10 month before the birth in Tranholm. The authorities should know that, because if the father didn't pay or rejected his fatherhood the authorities in the place where the mother got pregnant had to pay the alimentation (children money)  or hade the responsibility to get the money from the father.
 
Unfortunately I have only found, that alimentationscases in Aalborg amt are not digitalisezed- i have found the protocol but that doesn't help you -and I can't find the protocol in the overwiew either, only the registration protocol which contents  the Serie number and where it is placed at the rigsarkiv.
.
But here it is : Aalborg stiftamt, alimentationssager etc. Series B-3 , 5973 journalsager, 1884, Litra R nr. 56-1321
or it could be B-3, 5974 journalssager, Litra R nr. 1326-2781 
The numbers from 56 to 2781 are the numbers of the case itself. and then it says "Magasin".

How old was he, was he also minor (first when he got 24 years he could marry without his parents persmission.

Grethe

maybe someone could go and look after for you

Ok this is making some sense. So I think if I want to find out exactly what happened I'm going to have to find this case as well as the sørulle for those years (also not digitized). Ole was born in 1858 so he was a bit older than Johanne.

I have some distant Danish cousins that live in Copenhagen that may be able to help me out, I think it's time I give them a call.
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #19 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 11:42 »
Hi Matthew

I have a question. How did he get to USA. He deserted from the army about 1912 and at that time I am quite sure he hadn't any mony, so how could he pay for the ticket? Did his mother help him with that?
I wonder, since he told he was in Greenland, Iceland etc., if he has taken hire on a ship going northways .
I know the police at that time was not so effectiv, but to desert,  I think it has been in the nespapers -at least a lost person report - and also that the police has been informed, I am also sure some investigations has been done, interviews with family and friends, and other soldiers (collegues, officers etc. ) 
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Matthew Dent

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Sv: Completing my story for Lars Peter Jensen
« Svar #20 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 12:14 »
So, he was married in Aalbog in 1908 and then left the country in June 1909 on the Hellig Olav. No one in the family is quite sure, but we think that one of his uncles who had already gone to the US loaned him the money for he and his wife to travel. He then spent the rest of his life in Omaha.

He left through Copenhagen so honestly, who knows how they didn't catch him. He even sent a postcard to his mother as he left the city. Not exactly a criminal mastermind, this one. In the PDF I shared a few responses up you can see a scan of the card.
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #21 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 13:30 »
Okay Matthew

I have read what you have written about Lars Peter. And I can see that he was recalled in 1912 and didn't show up.The time between 1908 -where he was sent home - to 1912 nobody would be interested in where he was and what he did, so could easely travel to USA - and was not search for as deserter. They first discover it in 1912, and at that time he already had left Denmark. Did he travel on third class or deck class, then the tickets would be cheap.
About his fathers age when Johanna got pregnat, he was 26 years old, so he should not ask his parents about marriage. (He was of age/grown up) But as you told he might enroll in the navy at that time.I doubt this because, there were certain obligations for enrolling in the navy. One shold either be a sailing sailer, half-sailing sailor or "søvant" that is: know so much of sailing and able to document it, that they acepted him, and that should happen at latest when he was called in at 22 years. If a 18 year old boy wanted to enter the navy he could get a pass so he could take hire on a ship, and by that be able to enter the navy.
Where is Ole baptised and what year?

 

,
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

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Sv: Completing my story for Lars Peter Jensen
« Svar #22 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 13:38 »
I see that makes sense. Lars and the wife Marie Blom traveled 3rd class with a single trunk between them, I believe.

All I know is that Ole was transferred to the sørulle I don't know what exactly that entails. Here's a thread that I posted a while back about Ole that has a good summary of the information that I had for him:
https://forum.slaegt.dk/index.php/topic,153801.0.html
- Matthew

Grethe Leerbech

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« Svar #23 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 19:43 »
Hi Matthew

I have tried if the "Skifteprotokoller" from 1793 should be at Familysearch- but I couldn't find them
But i found the "søruller", and have tried to look inside them, but the pictures doesn't show in my computer?.
To find them is here a link
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/3491657?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I think he has been enrolled in 5.udskrivningskreds" am not quite sure. But he belonged to that part.

it is written that the number should be 1285 b but i am not sure about such a high number- -1881 has an E, 1883 has an G, and 1893 has an R. And there are no I only J

The best way to find more about him is the "skifteprotokol" I believe there must be a "skifte" from his father (or mother) maybe. But as read those years you need are not digitized

but ask here how to find him in a "sørulle". because it only mentions a number  with the M1 . But the first lægdsrulle -"omskrevet" tells that he is transfered to sørulle in 1882 and in "tilgangsrullen"  it is said he is transfered in 1883,  and the first one also tells he is discharged in 1890

I am not so keen with the military, but the remark M1  stand for "working at the navy "  I am not sure it indicates he is a navysoldier -after my opnien he could be a common soldier just working for the navy it- but ask here
« Senest redigeret: 04 Dec 2019 - 19:55 af Grethe Leerbech »
Thyholm,Vang, Gislum,Hornum,Hindsted, Slet, Års i Aalborg a. Ginding,Ringkøbing a.Rinds, Fjends,Hindborg,Viborg a. Nybøl, Sottrup,Sønderbog a.sogne i Tyskland, Sunds,Svendborg a.Tuse,Års,Løve i Holbæ

Matthew Dent

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Sv: Completing my story for Lars Peter Jensen
« Svar #24 Dato: 04 Dec 2019 - 20:04 »
Yeah those are exactly what I need too! I am having trouble loading those images, It appears to be a server problem so I will check back. I think those may contain the answer though... maybe someone else will have better luck. As for the skifteprotokol, I'll just have to wait or add it to my list of things to view in person. I'm hoping to go to Denmark later this year.

The only thing I do know is that the Tranholm farm that presumably should have been Ole's, inherited from his father, was in the possession of his younger sister Ane Kirstine. There's even a lovely picture of that family:
https://arkiv.dk/en/vis/4820382
- Matthew