Forfatter Emne: The English and Browne families  (Læst 597 gange)

Paul London

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The English and Browne families
« Dato: 01 Sep 2019 - 13:29 »
Hello All

I am tracing my ancestors who were related to Thomas English who came to Frederiksværk in 1798 to start the Rolling Mills which is well documented.  Thomas English born in 1773 had a sister Elizabeth Laura English who married Samuel Thomas Browne.  Elizabeth and Samuel were from Lewisham in London.  In 1806 Samuel Thomas Browne arrived in Frederiksvaerk/Copenhagen to manage the rolling mills whilst Thomas English was absent.

Around 1809 Elizabeth had a son (John) Henry Dolben Browne, often dropping the John for Henry on census records. He is listed on all English census records he appears on as being born in Denmark and a British Subject.

The first record of Henry I can find is on the 1841 English Census and then subsequent.  I have attempted to find his birth record in Denmark, most likely in Copenhagen or around Frederiksvaerk, but with no luck so far.  I would also like to know if there are likely to be any other records relating to Samuel Thomas Browne and his wife Elizabeth in Denmark as well as their son Henry Dolben Browne.

The Dolben part of Henry's name also comes from the English family line which is also of interest but difficult to find exactly where.

Samuel Thomas Browne was a merchant by trade and had involvement with the East India Company and believed to work for the Pasha of Egypt during the early 1800s.

For note Thomas English's (1773) son was Thomas Alfred English born in 1819 was the known Danish engineer.

If anyone has any thoughts on how to best research this branch of my family history I would be grateful for any information, as I live in the UK and therefore physical research would be very difficult.

Kind regards

Paul

Ulla Karin Alsvold

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« Svar #1 Dato: 08 Sep 2019 - 15:37 »
Hello

Try to look for the persons in Danish Family Search.


Ulla Karin Alsvold

Ulla Karin Alsvold

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« Svar #2 Dato: 13 Sep 2019 - 14:58 »
Could this be in Family


Thomas Alfred English born  1821 in Copenhagen
Clara Maria English born 1831 in Flensburg
Heinrich born 1834 in Flensburg

There mother
Cecilia Maria born 1799 in Copenhagen Widow

Liven 1835 (Census) in Fisherhof Sankt Johannes Gottorp in Slesvig Holstein



Ulla Karin Alsvold

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #3 Dato: 14 Sep 2019 - 20:42 »
Census 1845:
Flensburg, , Flensburg Sankt Johannis, [Fischerhof], 4, 256 F2, FT-1845, C5604
Cäcilia Maria English     46     Witwe          lebt von ihrer Pension und Händearbeit     Kopenhagen  
Thomas Alfred English     24     Unverheir.          ihre Kinder     Kopenhagen  (zur zeit abwesend).
Clara Maria English     14     Unverheir.          ihre Kinder     Flensburg  
Heinrich English     11     Unverheir.          ihre Kinder     Flensburg  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid6348754

The age has to be little wrong as Thomas Alfred English was born in 1819.

The baptism of Thomas Alfred English in Helligånds Parish in Copenhagen.
Born: 17th of December 1819.
Baptized: 25th of January 1820.
Name: Thomas Alfred [English].
Fader: Thomas English.
Moder: Madame Cecilie Marie Englisch, born Berk.
Source (top): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115801#151080,25074689

Married 10th of June 1852 in the parish "Sankt Knuds Domsogn" in Odense.
Bachelor civile engineer Thomas Alfred English. Born Copenhagen.
Jomfru [Maiden] Johanne Regine Nathalia Allerup, Born Copenhagen  
Source (nr 28): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17138175#180623,30654711

Census 1860:
København, Sokkelund, Frederiksberg, Ladegaardsvej, Gaarden Rolighed, 372 - F1, FT-1860, D5204
Thomas Alfred English     40     Gift     Civilingeniør          København  
Johanne Regine Nathalia. f. Allerup     30     Gift     Hustru          København  
Thomas Regnar English     7     Ugift     Barn          Odense  
Clara Cecilie Christine English     5     Ugift     Barn          København  
Henry Allerup English     3     Ugift     Barn          København  
Laura Johanne Louise English     1     Ugift     Barn          København  
Carl Julius Petrus Hansen     39     Gift     Civilingeniør          Flensborg  
Laura Elisabeth. f. English     38     Gift     Hustru          København  
Cecilie Elise Dorothea Emilie Hansen     8     Ugift     Barn          København  
Carl Thomas Alfred Hansen     6     Ugift     Barn          København  
Conrad Mathias Otto Hansen     4     Ugift     Barn          København  
Udøbt pigebarn     1     Ugift     Barn          København  
Cecilie Marie English     61     Enke     Pension          København   [his mother].
Clara Marie English     28     Ugift     Datter          Flensborg  
Henriette Charlotte Berth     35     Ugift     Husjomfru          Præstø  
Cathrine Christiansen     28     Ugift     Tjenestepige          Vejby  
Vilhelmine Juline Alin     41     Ugift     Tjenestepige          København  
Jensine Jensen     21     Ugift     Tjenestepige          København  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid14355136

Census 1880:
København, København (Staden), Gammel Kongevej (ulige numre), Udenbys Vester Kvarter, Gammel Kongevejs Rode, 18 b, 10, FT-1880, D3040
Thomas Alfred English     60     Gift     Husfader     Civilingeniør     København  
Johanne Nathalie English, f. Allerup     49     Gift     Husmoder          København  
Clara Cecilie Christine English     24     Ugift     Datter          Frederiksberg  
Laura Johanne Louise English     21     Ugift     Datter          Frederiksberg  
Mary Nathalie Emilie English     13     Ugift     Datter          Frederiksberg  
Elisabeth Christine Henriette English     8     Ugift     Datter          Frederiksberg  
Laura Frederikke Petrine Thomsen     29     Ugift     Tjenestepige          Odense  
Clara Emilie Jakobine Lind     19     Ugift     Logerende, datter af apoteker Th. Lind, Ribe     Studerende     Ribe  
Søren Lundager Jacobsen     21     Ugift     Logerende, søn af afdøde købmand Jacobsen, Ribe     Studerende     Ribe  
Nathalie Jacobsen     20     Ugift     Logerende, datter af afdøde købmand Jacobsen, Ribe     Studerende     Ribe  
Ivar Elling Hansen     21     Ugift     Logerende, søn af afdøde møller Hansen, Ribe     Studerende     Ribe  
Otto Mathias Conrad Hansen     23     Ugift     Logerende, søn af C.J. Hansen, Svendborg     Kontorist     Frederiksberg  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid11179265

Census 1885:
København, København (Staden), Gammel Kongevej (ulige numre), Kjøbenhavn Udenbys Vester Kvarter, Gammel Kongevei 25,matr.18B 4.Sal, 8, FT-1885, D3958
Thomas Alfr.English     64     Gift     Husfader     Ingenieur     Kjøbenhavn  
Nathalie Regine English     54     Gift     Husmoder          Kjøbenhavn  
Thomas Regnar English     31     Ugift     Søn     Ingenieur     Odense  
Clara Cec.English     28     Ugift     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Laura Johanne English     25     Ugift     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Mary English     18     Ugift     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Else English     13     Ugift     Datter          Kjøbenhavn  
Charles Julius Hansson     25     Ugift     logerende     Boghandlercommis     Kjøbenhavn  
Johannes Allerup     25     Ugift     logerende     Student     Odense  
Frederik Wilken     23     Ugift     logerende     Student     Odense  
Olga Flindt     28     Ugift     Tyende          Holbæk  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid15359562

Census 1901:
København, København (Staden), Bredegade (Frederiksberg), , 71d, 10, FT-1901, E0857
Nathalie Johanne Regine English     18300312     E     Husmoder     Formue     Kjøbenhavn  
Clara Cecilie Christine English     18550928     U     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Laura Louise Johanne English     18590503     U     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Mary Nathalie Emilie English     18660814     U     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Elisabeth Henriette Christine English     18710420     U     Datter     Lærerinde     Kjøbenhavn  
Hildegard Holbergine Frederikke Ahlefeldt     18410808     E     Pensionær     Formue. privat understøttelse     Genofte  
Ellen Kirstine Andersen     18640414     U     Tjenestetyende          Dauglykke  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid20535082

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #4 Dato: 14 Sep 2019 - 21:42 »

Around 1809 Elizabeth had a son (John) Henry Dolben Browne, often dropping the John for Henry on census records. He is listed on all English census records he appears on as being born in Denmark and a British Subject.

The first record of Henry I can find is on the 1841 English Census and then subsequent.  I have attempted to find his birth record in Denmark, most likely in Copenhagen or around Frederiksvaerk, but with no luck so far.  I would also like to know if there are likely to be any other records relating to Samuel Thomas Browne and his wife Elizabeth in Denmark as well as their son Henry Dolben Browne.

The big problem is that Denmark doesn't have any census between 1801 and 1834.
Most of the 1834 census is even lost for Copenhagen.

So familysearch entries states that Samuel Thomas Browne married Elisabeth Laura English (1781-1858)
Married: 17 JUL 1804, Saint Mary,Lewisham,Kent,England.  
- but not found any possible candidates so far.

I have found a little info on Thomas English, though.

From the baptismal records of Thomas Alfred English in 1819 we know their residence was Ulfeltsplads 113.
Thomas English. "Fabrik-entrepreneur" is also named in Krak Vejviser 1819-1820 at that adress.
See: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/Kraks-Vejviser-1819-20/128

In 1810: No Thomas English listed [only prominent people are listed it should be noted, so not finding names doesn't mean they are not in Copenhagen].

In 1811 he is listed as Thomas English, Kobber-fabrikant. Østergade 11.
Source: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/Kraks-Vejviser-1811/120

In 1812 he is as Thomas English, Kobber-fabrikant, Ulfeltsplads 113.
Source: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/Kraks-Vejviser-1812/78

In 1821 is the last time he is listed in Ulfeltsplads 113.
Source: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/kraks-vejviser-1821/100

No listing 1822.

In 1823: Th. English. Fabrikør. Vandkunsten 180.
Source: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/kraks-vejviser-1823/104

No listing 1824-1825.

« Senest redigeret: 14 Sep 2019 - 21:53 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] »

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #5 Dato: 14 Sep 2019 - 22:19 »
Possible sister to Thomas Alfred English appeared in the 1860 census with her husband, who is also an engineer!

Census 1860:
København, Sokkelund, Frederiksberg, Ladegaardsvej, Gaarden Rolighed, 372 - F1, FT-1860, D5204
Thomas Alfred English     40     Gift     Civilingeniør          København  
Johanne Regine Nathalia. f. Allerup     30     Gift     Hustru          København  
Thomas Regnar English     7     Ugift     Barn          Odense  
Clara Cecilie Christine English     5     Ugift     Barn          København  
Henry Allerup English     3     Ugift     Barn          København  
Laura Johanne Louise English     1     Ugift     Barn          København  
Carl Julius Petrus Hansen     39     Gift     Civilingeniør          Flensborg  
Laura Elisabeth. f. English     38     Gift     Hustru          København  

Cecilie Elise Dorothea Emilie Hansen     8     Ugift     Barn          København  
Carl Thomas Alfred Hansen     6     Ugift     Barn          København  
Conrad Mathias Otto Hansen     4     Ugift     Barn          København  
Udøbt pigebarn     1     Ugift     Barn          København  
Cecilie Marie English     61     Enke     Pension          København   [his mother].
Clara Marie English     28     Ugift     Datter          Flensborg  
Henriette Charlotte Berth     35     Ugift     Husjomfru          Præstø  
Cathrine Christiansen     28     Ugift     Tjenestepige          Vejby  
Vilhelmine Juline Alin     41     Ugift     Tjenestepige          København  
Jensine Jensen     21     Ugift     Tjenestepige          København  
Source: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid14355136

Census 1890: Valdemarsgade 3, 2, sal til højre. Matrikel 135.
Carl Julius ?Tetens? Hanssen. 68 years old. Born Flensborg.
Elisabeth Laura Hansen, born English. 67 years old. Born Copenhagen.

Nathalie Emilie Hanssen. Daughter. 29 years old. Unmarrried. Born Frederiksberg.
Ingeborg Cathrine Christensen. Housemaid.
Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS21-YD9G?i=1049&cc=2800928&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQL6K-7CG9

Census 1901. Valdemarsgade 3.
Carl Julius Tetens Hansen. 5th August 1821. Moved to Copenhagen in 1850 and again in 1880.
Married 1851. Became Widower in 1896. 5 living children in marriage.
Nathalie Emilie Hanssen. Daughter. 10th October 1859. Unmarrried. Born Frederiksberg.
Ingeborg Cathrine Christensen. Housemaid.
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=24829#24829,2838655

Carl Julius Tetens Hansen.
Born: ca. 1822 i Flenborg.
Died: 6/6 1916.
Source: https://www.kbharkiv.dk/sog-i-arkivet/sog-i-indtastede-kilder#/post/17-1536464
« Senest redigeret: 14 Sep 2019 - 22:37 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] »

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #6 Dato: 14 Sep 2019 - 22:52 »
Laura Elisabeth Hanssen, born English
Died: 30th January 1896 in Sankt Matthæus Sogn, Copenhagen.
Buried: 5th of February in Frederiksberg.
Address at death: Valdemarsgade 3.
73 years old. Wife of civilingenør Julius Tetens Hanssen
Source (nr. 56): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17118435#156057,26122900
&
Born: 28th September 1822.
Baptized: 16th of December 1822 in Vor Frue Sogn in Copenhagen.
Name: Laura Elisabeth [English].
Father: Thomas English.
Mother: Cecilia Marie Berth
Source (nr 4): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17119867#158951,26713510

Census 1835. Flensborg Town.
Thomas Englisch. Age 56.
Cäcelia ?Birth?. Age 36.
Alfred Englisch. Age 16. [Thomas Alfred English]
Laura Englisch. Age 13. [Laura Elisabeth English]-
Johann Englisch. Age 8
Clara Englisch. Age 4 [Clara Marie English, is 28 years in the 1860 census]
Heinrich Englisch. Age 1
Source (top left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=187597#187597,31780460

In 1860 Census there was a husjomfru "Henriette Charlotte Berth" age 35 .
Perhaps a relative of Cäcilia "Birth". [A brothers daughter?].
« Senest redigeret: 14 Sep 2019 - 23:24 af Niels Just Rasmussen [56358] »

Niels Just Rasmussen

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« Svar #7 Dato: 14 Sep 2019 - 23:40 »
Married 24. December 1814 in Vor Frelsers Sogn in Copenhagen.
Ungkarl Thomas Englich. Forpagter af valseværket på Frederiksværk.
Jomfru Cicilia Marie Berth. 16 years old at her father ?Justitsråd? Berth. Strandgade 35.
Source (nr 5):  https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17119859#158848,26688472

Krak vejviser 1814-1815:
L. Berth. Justitsraad. Chef for Frederiksværks Hovedcontoir og Secretair i den Millitære Indqvaterings Commission.
Adresse: Christianshavn. Strandgade 35.
Source: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/kraks-vejviser-1814-og-1815/28

So Thomas English married the daughter of a prominent man!