Help with Sophia Broagger

[Clyde Rasmussen]

This is what I know about her.

Married Søren Poesgaard 7/5/1772 - Ringkøbing, Hjerm, Holstebro, 1765-1815 ops 5
Kirstine Margrethe (daughter) born 19/3/1773 - 1762-1815 ops 30
Søren Poesgaard died 6/1/1774 - 1765-1815 ops 31
Married Anders Nielsen Trane 28/2/1781 - 1765-1815 ops 7
Iver Nicolay Trane born 7/7/1782 - 1765-1815  ops
Søren Nicolay Trane born 30/4/1785 - 1775-1815 ops 48
Sophia died 17/5/1833 aged 90 -  1828-1841 ops 208 (entry 3)
Census 1787 - Sophia Broagger aged 44   
Census 1801 - Sophia Ivarsdatter aged 58

In the above records Sophia's 2nd christian name varied from Cicilia to Kirstine.

Sophia and Anders Trane are my gggg grandparents. What I would like to know is:-
(1) Is there anything in Sophia's death entry on ops 208 to indicate whether or not Anders was still alive. He was 16 years younger than Sophia and it is possible he was still alive.

(2) When and where was Sophia born, and who were her parents. She must have been born about 1743. Her parents could possibly have been Iver Broager and Kirstine Magrete from Tim. See the entry - Ringkøbing, Hind, Tim, 1660-1767 ops 65. I cannot understand the church recordings for that period.  There could also be a connection with Johan Leonhart Broagger probably born Ringkøbing Købstad about 1844. Sophia and Johan both had offspring with similar names.

(3) Could I please have translations for Sophia's marriages to Søren and Anders, and translations for columns 1 & 3 in the birth entries for Kirstine Margethe, Iver Nicolay and Søren Nicolay.

Your assistance will be appreciated.

Mvh.

Clyde Rasmussen
Queensland, Australia

[Christina Wilson]

Hi--try Erik Brejl's wonderful site.  It is in Danish only.  He has a collection of will extractions--but the Broagers you mention show up on 2 collections.  I didn't find any Poesgaard/Poesgård -- but I didn't try all potential variations. There are a lot of Tranes in the variation collection, but I did not find an "Anders Nielsen Trane". But again, I didn't look at variations.

http://www.brejl.dk/

For the Tranes, try Simon Ellefsen's site: http://www.nose.dk/Norge/  he has several files on the Tranes

Happy hunting,
Christina

PS I'm very suspicious of the name Poesgaard. Is it spelled the same on all the various records you have?

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi Clyde

At Sophies Broagers death it says: Anders Thranes widow.

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

The wedding to Søren Jensen Poersgaard:
1771 on the 7th of May Søren Jensen Poersgaard was married to Sophia Zicilia Yversdatter Broagger. The wedding was held in the house with Royal licens.

Yver = Iver

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Second wedding:
1781
On the 28th of February Anders Nielsen Thrane was betrothaled to Sophia Kirstine Broagger and were married on the 10th of May.

Regards
Ruth

[Ib Hansen]

Hi,

"Søren Jensen Poesgaard Brølling med Sophia Zicilia Yversd: Broagger som fød i Sundvet med Kgl. Tilladelse."

"Søren Jensen Poesgaard Brølling and Sophia Zicilia Yversd: Broagger born in Sundeved with royal permission."

So, Zicilia was born in Sundeved, Broager parish.

I have found a "Iver Matzen/Madsen in Sundeved. He married Syndit Hansdatter 7th November 1723. They had - at least - two children:

-Sophie, baptisted 8th December 1730
-Sillie (probl.: Zicilia), baptisted 15th June 1739 (Sønderborg county, Broager parish 1695-1779, opslag 85)

I have not found a Sophie Sillie (Sophia Zicilia) yet

Many regards
Ib

[Clyde Rasmussen]

Hej Christina and Ruth

Many thanks to both of you for your assistance and advices.

Christina, I was aware of Erik Brejl's site and found several  references to my Tranes from Holstebro Købstad. I found it originally through Google. It is a tremendous site with considerable information. Søren Poesgaard is mentioned in it under the name Paasgaard. Poesgaard is the name in the church book. Anders Trane is not mentioned as he possibly died after 1819 when the last recording was made. I have not had a look at Simon Ellefsen's site yet, but will do so very shortly.

Ruth, your information has been very helpful. Could you tell me what a Royal licens is.

With best wishes

Clyde

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi

The Royal licence was a dispensation that allows a couple to be married, although the conditions for marriage is not formally met. It will typically be about that one party is too young, or that the couple really are too closely related. It could also be that they had a dispensation for the wedding ceremony took place in a different way a usual. Fx that they were married without publication of the banns (could be they needed the marriage without delay because the were expecting af child), or married at home instead of in church.

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi
I do not agree that she is from Sundeved.
It says: Som stod i Huuset

You can find the same frase at other weddings, meaning they were married at home and not in the church.

Ruth

[Clyde Rasmussen]

Hej to everyone

Good News!!!
Because of all the information and advice you have given me, I have worked out that Sophia is the daughter of Iver Broager and Kirstine Margrethe Peddersdatter. Iver was a præst at Tim and later at Staby where he died in 1749. I found the following information on  Erik Brejl's site:-
Iver [Nikolaj Lorentsen] Broager, præst i Staby, død marts 1749.
E: Kirstine Margrethe Pedersdatter [Stavning]. B:
1) Lorents Peder Nikolaj
2) Frands Linde
3) Johan Leonhart
4) Sofie Cecilie Hedvig.

Sophia had a daughter Kirstine Margrethe born at Holstebro 19/3/1773 - 1762-1815 ops 30, by her first husband Søren Poesgaard who died 6/1/1774 - 1765-1815 ops 31.
In the 1787 census in the house of Johan Leonhart Broagger at Ringkøbing it shows:-
Kirstine Margrethe 10  Ugift Hosbondens Søsterdatter
and at the same address in 1801:-
Kirstine Magrethe Porsgaard 27  Ugift en søsterdatter af manden [Johann Leonhardt Broagger]

This should be sufficient proof that Sophia is the daughter of Iver Broager and Kirstine Magrethe. Tell me if you disagreee.

I still have to fine her birth place.

Thanks and best wishes

Clyde

[Christina Wilson]

Hi,

There used to be a lovely site on Danish Priests (Lotte Jensen?). It's gone. Does anyone know if it's available anywhere?

Some of the Danish parishes heave websites that have lists of the priests who served in the parish and their dates.

I would start with the 2 parishes Iver served at and see if you can find the christening record.

The S.V.Wibergs Almindelig dansk præstehistorie (available at Tom Stryhn's site and possibly others, including Google???) has some interesting info on Iver. Look at the Staby parish's information.

http://tom-stryhn.com/viberg/windex.php (I don't think you have to register to browse this).

Iver Nicolai Lorentzen Broager's father was Lorentz Nicolaisen. Iver was born in the parish Broager. And his mother was Sophie  Hedevig. He had nine children (sorry, they aren't listed). He studied in Kiel.

Happy hunting!

Christina

[Clyde Rasmussen]

Hej Christina

Thank you for your information. I had a quick look at the 2 sites you mentioned and found Iver on 2 occasions. I will have to take more time to learn what else is available on the site. The number of sites in Denmark relating to family history is amazing.

In which site did you find where Iver was born, and the names of his parents. I will have a look at it.

My wife  and I have close Danish friends from Aarhus who want us to visit them again. The last time we visited my only know ancestors in Jutland were from Viborg. Maybe the opportunity to see the areas where new found ancestors came from is a good excuse to pay another visit to a  beautiful country.

Cheers

Clyde

[Clyde Rasmussen]

Hej Christina

I have worked out that the details of Iver's parents etc came from SVWibergs, Plain Danish priest story, Staby Parish.

Clyde

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi Clyde and Christina

You find Wibergs præstehistorie here:
http://tom-stryhn.com/viberg/windex.php

Regards
Ruth

[Else Yndgaard]

Hello Clyde
According to Wiberg Iver Broagger was pastor in Staby from 1739 until his death in 1749. Sophia was born approx. 1743; her birthplace probably must have been Staby. Unfortunately the on-line church record of Staby does not start until 1749.

In this book:
Alfred Kaae, Staby Sogn, Staby, 1972, page 171 it says that Sophie after her father's death came to a citizen in Holstebro, Christen Thommesen, where she spent the rest of her childhood. - She was confirmed in Holstebro in 1762, see arkivalieronline 1694-1775, opslag 356, "in her 17th year" (i.e. she was 16).

Sophie died 1833, Holstebro 1828-41, opsl. 208. She was 90 years old.

By the way, her older brother Lorents was my 5th gg. You are welcome to write me privately, if you are interested in further information about this part of the family. It will probably be too much to put into this forum.

Best regards
Else Yndgaard

[Clyde Rasmussen]

Hej Else

Many thanks for your information.

I had been wondering where Sophia was born, and, as Staby is not on line for that period it is difficult to determine the exact place and date.

There is some very interesting information about Iver Broager and in particular his wife's immediate ancestors on the Tom Stryhn and Erik Brejls sites.

Thank your for your offer to give me more information. I will send you a private email tomorrow.

Best wishes

Clyde