Parents of MAGDALENE HERMANSEN

[Sue Murphy]

Am needing help tracking down Magdalene Hermansen's parents.  The information I have is:

BORN about 1821 in Fredericia, Vejle, Denmark. (This info is from the marriage record and the 1870 census.)

CENSUS 1845 found her (I think?) living at Norregarde 513 with other people, including a Karen Hermansen.  (Opslag 139 - 1845 Census, Vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Kobstad, Vendersgade data_folketaelling_FT1845_01926_0109)

CENSUS 1850 found her (I think?) living in Kobenhavn (FT1850 Opslag 33 - Koben) and one of her neighbours is Søren Madsen!

MARRIED to Søren Madsen in 1855 and at the time was living at Knabrostraede 134.

CENSUS 1870 she lived in a basement (Kjalderen?) in Norregade, Kobenhavn with husband, Søren Madsen and children, Peter Herman Madsen, Carl Bogh Julius Madsen, Otto Christian Madsen, Elisabeth Magdalene Madsen and Søren Valdemar Madsen. (All male children appear to be christened in Vor Frue area).  (1870 census data_folketaelling_FT1870_0008_00740)

DEATH found a Magdalone Madsen died 7 May 1872 in Vor Frue and if anyone cares to look at the death certificate I think it says "Married to publican" or similar??  I am unsure whether this means that her husband was still alive at the time she died.  She was living at Norregade 4 at the time and appears to be buried in Garrisons Kirkegaard.  (death 1866-1878 opslag 180 - data_kirkeboeger_013_2_023_K07-07-A)

Would appreciate any help as I've dried up all my leads

Thanks in anticipation,

Cheers!
Sue, Melbourne, Australia

[Sue Murphy]

Am needing help tracking down Magdalene Hermansen's parents.  The information I have is:

BORN about 1821 in Fredericia, Vejle, Denmark. (This info is from the marriage record and the 1870 census.)

CENSUS 1845 found her (I think?) living at Norregarde 513 with other people, including a Karen Hermansen.  (Opslag 139 - 1845 Census, Vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Kobstad, Vendersgade data_folketaelling_FT1845_01926_0109)

CENSUS 1850 found her (I think?) living in Kobenhavn (FT1850 Opslag 33 - Koben) and one of her neighbours is Søren Madsen!

MARRIED to Søren Madsen in 1855 and at the time was living at Knabrostraede 134. 

NEE:  I have a scrap of paper with "Magdalene Hermansen, nee Hansen" if that helps with her parents.  She seems to be single when married to Søren.

CENSUS 1870 she lived in a basement (Kjalderen?) in Norregade, Kobenhavn with husband, Søren Madsen and children, Peter Herman Madsen, Carl Bogh Julius Madsen, Otto Christian Madsen, Elisabeth Magdalene Madsen and Søren Valdemar Madsen. (All male children appear to be christened in Vor Frue area).  (1870 census data_folketaelling_FT1870_0008_00740)

DEATH found a Magdalone Madsen died 7 May 1872 in Vor Frue and if anyone cares to look at the death certificate I think it says "Married to publican" or similar??  I am unsure whether this means that her husband was still alive at the time she died.  She was living at Norregade 4 at the time and appears to be buried in Garrisons Kirkegaard.  (death 1866-1878 opslag 180 - data_kirkeboeger_013_2_023_K07-07-A)

Would appreciate any help as I've dried up all my leads

Thanks in anticipation,

Cheers!
Sue, Melbourne, Australia

[Gitte Hovedskov]

Hi Sue

There is a Magdalene Hermansdatter in the churchbook for Fredericia Michaelis, Elbo, Vejle 1814-1831, opslag 72, no. 194.

Date 17 November 1821.
Parents: Herman Simonsen ? and ? Anne Hansdatter.

Somebody else may be able to read the details better.

Gitte 

[Sue Murphy]

Hi Gitte,

Thanks so much for your help.  I have been trawling my way through the Danish records for months now and haven't been able to find anything.

Really appreciate it.

Kindest regards,
Sue
Melbourne

[Sue Murphy]

Hi Gitte,

I'm still trying to get my head around the way the Danish named their children.  Are you able to tell me where the "Hermansen" would have come from?  In other words, do they change their name later in life?  I'm getting a little confused because I thought the "sen" or "son" meant "son of"?

With your experience is this likely to be her?  I will do a little more trawling to see if I can find a sister called Karen of the same parents.

Cheers!
Sue

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi Sue,

This could possibly be your family:

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Norgesgade 571, , 1ste Familie, 736, FT-1834 Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Herman Simonsen 49  Gift  Awlswæsen 
Anne Andersen 50  Gift  hans Kone 
Magrethe Caroline Simonsen 16  Ugift  Børn 
Karen Simonsen 14  Ugift  Børn 
Magdalene Simonsen 12  Ugift  Børn  Simon Simonsen 9  Ugift  Børn 
Andreas Petersen 23  Ugift  Soldater wed Fynske Reg. 
Hans Mathiesen 24  Ugift  Soldater wed Fynske Reg.

and:

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Norgesgade Westre Deel, , No 571, 447, FT-1840 Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Herman Simonsen 53  Gift  Awlsmand 
Ane Hansen 52  Gift  Hans Kone 
Magtelene Simonsen 19  Ugift  Hans Børn 
Simon Simonsen 16  Ugift  Hans Børn 
Ulrich Olsen 25  Ugift  Tjenestekarl 
Christian Pedersen 25  Ugift  Sold. F. I. Rgmt. 
Christian Bonnesen 25  Ugift  Sold. F. I. Rgmt. 
Bolette Wilhelmsen 64  Ugift  Lever af Haandarbeide 
Henning Henningsen 44  Gift  Vævemester 
Lene Christensen 34  Gift  Hans Kone 
Peder Henningsen 14  Ugift  Hans Børn 
Andreas Henningsen 5  Ugift  Hans Børn 
Kathine Henningsen 2  Ugift  Hans Børn 
Abraham Cohr 22  Ugift  Hans Svend 
Jacob Jensen 45  Gift  Dagleier 
Marie Welle 31  Gift  Hans Kone 
Jens Jensen 7  Ugift  Hans Søn 
Ane Hansen 66  Enke  Fattiglem

and:

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Norgesgade, , , 571, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Nels Rudolfsen 37  Gift  Awlsmand Højrup Herslev sogn Weile amt
Magrette Hermansen 27  Gift  Hans kone Fredericia
Rudolf Rudolfsen 2  Ugift  Deres barn Fredericia
Herman Simonsen 60  Gift  Svigerforældre Fredericia
Ane Hansen 62  Gift  Svigerforældre ??Høs.... sogn Weile amt
Christian Lillie 18  Ugift  Tjenestefolk Fredericia
Ingeborg Hemming 47  Ugift  Tjenestefolk Fredericia
Hans Nielsen 24  Ugift  Undercorporal Gottorff
Bahnke Matthiesen 24  Ugift  Undercorporal Bredstadt
Peter Jørgensen 23  Ugift  Menig Gottorff
Claus Wolbeck 24  Ugift  Menig Eiderstadt
Peter Deertz 23  Ugift  Menig Eiderstadt

and:

vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Fredericia, , Norgesgade, Vestre side, No. 571, 500-F2, FT-1850
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Hermand Simonsen 66  Gift  Huusfader, begge paa Aftægt Frederits
Ane Hansen 67  Gift  [hans Kone] begge paa Aftægt As Sogn, Veile Amt

Lissa

[Sue Murphy]

Thanks Gitte and Lisa,

I'm still struggling to understand how she becomes Hermansen from Simonsen??  When she was married she was a Hermansen and she was "unmarried"... please excuse my ignorance on Danish names!

Kindest regards,
Sue

[Gitte Hovedskov]

Hi Sue

It's one of those wonderful things that you can choose to look at as a help or be frustrated by. 

I'm not sure how far back this goes, but people in Denmark with 'common' names used to be known by their first name and then maybe by their profession, e.g. Hans who worked at the mill became Hans Miller (Møller), or Hans who lived at a farm called Søndergaard would be Hans Søndergaard. Children would be known by a first name and their father's first name, e.g. If Hans' father was called Søren Jensen, Hans would become Hans Søren's son = Hans Sørensen, and if Hans then had a son called Peter, he would be known as Peter Hans' son = Peter Hansen. Similarly, if Hans had a sister called, say, Hanne, she would become Hanne Søren's daughter = Hanne Sørensdatter.

Confused? Don't be, it's often really useful to know that you can find the father's first name by looking at the child's last name. You will find that in older church records, at birth/christening, children are mentioned only by their first name, and the text would read something like this: Søren Jensen and his wife had a son who was christened Hans. No surname indicated, it was understood that Hans would from then on be known as Hans Sørensen.

There was a transition period where both boys and girls would be called 'Sørensen' if the father's first name was Søren, and for a limited time parents were at liberty to choose whether to give their children their father's first name or his surname as their surname. Eventually, of course, they were given his surname. BUT, a girl who might in her early years have been referred to as 'Hanne Sørensdatter', might quite easily be referred to as Hanne Sørensen as a grown woman. I guess it was simply because there was no written record of girls' actual names, that the changing names in different records would simply follow the trends of the time.

Nowadays, children in Denmark can, of course, be given their father's surname, their mother's surname, either of the parents' middle names or any combination of these that the parents choose!

Still confused? Jeje ... hope not

Gitte 

[Gitte Hovedskov]

Hi again

Was just reminded of a personal story that makes the 'surname thing' seem more logical:

When I took up family search, I phoned my mum's 92-year-old aunt to glean as much information from her as possible. She and I may have spoken together only a handful of times before, so she would not be very familiar with who I was, but when I introduced myself on the phone, I said: "This is Gitte, Idon and Lissi's daughter", and she immediately knew who I was. Had I said, "This is Gitte Hovedskov Hansen", her reaction, no doubt, would have been: "Who?" ...

We are, funnily, our parents' children, no matter how old we get.

Gitte 

[Sue Murphy]

I think it's fascinating really and I appreciate everyone's help.  I am learning as I go... I couldn't do it without the help of you people out there so a very big THANK YOU!!

Cheers!
Sue

[Gitte Hovedskov]

Hi Sue

One more thing on the surnames of women: They will continue to be listed with their maiden name in the records, i.e. as you say, at your relative's marriage, she would be listed as Magdalene Hermansdatter, and obviously, she would be listed as 'ugift', because that was her status before the marriage. In the censuses, a married woman would also often be listed with her maiden name. However, towards the end of the 19th and through the 20th century (roughly), things changed somewhat, and women would be listed with their married name in the censuses, and in death records, your relative might have been listed as Magdalene Hermansdatter, Magdalene Hermansen, Magdalene Madsen, or Magdalene Madsen f. Hermansdatter (born Hermansdatter), or even, as in this case as Magdalene Simonsen, if the vicar was not certain what her birth 'name' had been...

It IS fascinating, isn't it?

Gitte