Missing Parish Records - Jørgen Jensen Baldrup, Stenild sogn

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Everyone!

I am blocked with a case of missing parish records, but do not have the experience to use other information sources to help me find missing information. Can anyone help, even if only with tips or suggestions, if not concrete information?

Jørgen JENSEN was born 30 Jan 1811 in Baldrup (Viborg amt) [Stenild 1807-1812, Opslag 7], the son of Jens JØRGENSEN and Else Katrine NIELSDR.

Father Jens JØRGENSEN died 8 months later on 24 Sep 1811 [Stenild 1807-1812, Opslag 14] at the age of 33, so born +/- 1778. Mother Else Katrine NIELSDR remarried on 7 Apr 1812 to Soren NIELSEN SPANGGAARD [Stenild 1807-1812, Opslag 12], had 3 more children and died on 30 Aug 1835 in Stenild [Stenild 1813-1841, Opslag 132] aged 57 years, so also born +/- 1778.

There are no parish records for Stenild for the periods of there birth or for the period right before the 1811 birth to give a possible marriage record.

Danmarks Kirkebøger:
"Stenild (Gislum H.). F 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91; K 1813-91; T 1702-41; V 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91; D 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91."

I have looked at all surrounding parishes to see if there was a marriage there, but no record was found.

I could not find a Else Katrine NIELSDR and Soren NIELSEN SPANGGAARD on the 1834 census of Stenild using the DDD or looking at the actual pages, but Else Katrine died in Stenild the following year...

WHAT AM I LOOKING FOR?

A marriage record for Jens JØRGENSEN and Else Katrine NIELSDR about 1809-1810, and any other records that might give me an indication of the names of their parents.

Birth records for both around 1778.

With a little luck they were not from Stenild, but until I know their names or other indications, I am blocked and cannot go further.

Thank you in advance,
Rick Larsen (Luxembourg)

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi Rick

Aalborg, Gislum, Stenild, Steenild Bye, hus, 19, FT 1834, A9987
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Erhverv:
Else Nielsdatter   55    gift   Insider afskediget fra sin mand, lever af sine hænders gerninger
Mari Jensdatter   80    ugift   Almiselem

It says she is dismissed from her husband.......

At the wedding between Søren Nielsen and Else Cathrine Nielsdatter he is told to be from Spanggaard in Tostrup. Spanggaard is not his given surname.

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

- and at her death it says that they were divorsed this sping (1835).

Ruth

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
At the birth of Jørgen the parents are lodger Jens Jørgensen and Else Nielsdatter in Steenild, (not Else Katrine!), "kom straks til at bo Boldrup" (the remark at the entry saying that the family immediately after this occasion would be living in Boldrup, which is also in the parish of Stenild and not called Baldrup in the district of Viborg, as you have stated.)
So maybe the Else Katrine Nielsdatter remarrying is not "your" Else Nielsdatter!
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Ruth, Hi Lillien,

Thank you both for the information. In both cases it was helpful and I'm grateful for the assistance.

I agree that there is a small chance that "Else" and "Else Catrine" are in fact two different persons. At the moment, I'm proceeding on the basis that they are the same person, but keeping my eyes open for anything that might confirm they are or are not. In the marriage record in 1812, it seems she is referrred to as "the widow Ane Catrine Nielsdr of Boldrup". In birth records for the children born from the marriage she is referred to interchangeably as "Else Nielsdr" (1813, 1817, 1820) and "Else Catrine Nielsdr" (1815).

The residence in the small little bye of Boldrup at the time of the marriage and the naming of the first son that was born out of the new marriage, "Jens" after the deceased first husband are all indicators that it is likely the same "Else" even though they are not confirmations.

There are no Else Nielsdrs that I can see in the 1801 or 1787 censuses of Stenild...but I missed the 1834 listing as well.

I don't have any experience with Skiftsprotokoller, but it would be helpful to find a will or soemthing else related to Jen's death in 1811 because he may have been working for someone and transferred to Stenild shortly before his death.

Best Regards,
Rick

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillien,

The "Balrup in Viborg amt" was a bit of a Freudian slip on my part. Sorry. When I began looking for Jørgen Jensen's birthplace, he gave it as "Vinderslev sogn in Viborg amt" in the FT-1845 of Vorup, then as "Baldrup sogn in Viborg amt" in the FT-1850 of Randers Købstad. Finally, after manually searching the pages of the FT-1855 of Randers Købstad, I found him with his birthplace given as Stenild. In Randers, he was referred to as "Jørgen Jensen Baldrup" in many parish records.

The Boldrup sogn had me lost for a long time, because it does not exist, and that seems to have stuck with me.

I cannot imagine why he was so confused about his birthplace before finally getting it right in 1855. I can only speculate that he needed to get a paper to prove his birth or something similar and therewith discovered it late himself. This is not that logicial for me though, because he married in Randers in 1843 and would have needed something already then.

Best Regards,
Rick

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
Could you give us the numbers from the FT's in which you have found Jørgen Jensen and also the one of his death.
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillien,

Yes, of course, with pleasure.

FT-1845 Vorup, Opslag 13; Worup bye, Family 50; living with 2 blind widows and one's seamstress daughter; gives place of birth as Vinderslev sogn in Viborg amt.

Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Ane Nielsdatter 53  Enke  Har indstægt af ??leie..... samt med at spinde og sye Heri sognet
Ane Catrine Christensdatter 56  Enke  Allene med spind og bind Heri sognet
Ane Marie Christensdatter 22  Ugift  Hendes datter,syepige Heri sognet
Jørgen Jensen 35  Gift  Prammand Winderslev sogn Wiborg amt  
Karen Marie Jensdatter 35  Gift  Hans kone Hvilsager sogn Randers amt
Jensine Jørgensdatter 6  Ugift  Deres børn Randers
Else Marie Jørgensdatter 1  Ugift  Deres børn Heri sognet


FT-1850 Randers Købstad, Opslag 234; Jordsmullet, 5. Rode, 387, 655, F. 2; gives place of birth as Baldrup sogn in Viborg amt.

Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Jørgen Jensen 39  Gift  Dagleier Baldrup, Viborg Amt  Karen Marie Jensdatter 37  Gift  hans Kone Hvilsager Sogn, Randers Amt
Jensine Jensdatter 12  Ugift  deres Datter Randers
Else Marie Jensdatter 6  Ugift  do do [ deres Datter] Do [ Randers]
Birgitte Marie Jensdatter 3  Ugift  do do [ deres Datter] Do [ Randers]


FT-1855 Randers Købstad, Opslag 879; Tienstrerade Nr. 373, 5. Rode, 2nd Family (Place of Birth = Stenild sogn)

Not yet in DDD

I could not find any of the family on the FT-1840 of and have not tried on the FT-1834.

Regards,
Rick
P.S.: I would love to find them on the FT-1860 cof Randers, but they are not in the DDD and the FT-1860 of Randers has a problem such that it cannot be viewed onlin at Arkivieronline.

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,

FT Randers  1860, del 1.6.rode, opslag 54, could be Jørgen and her wife together with Jensine and her husband?
You told us that Jørgen married in 1843 in Randers, I have not been able to find that. And where did he die?
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillien,

Wow! You scored a direct hit right away! The record you found is exactly the record I was looking for and yes, it does include her daughter Jensine Jensdatter and husband Niels Pedersen from Godvad parish, so there is no doubt. I don't know how I missed it, but clearly I did.

Here is the other information that you asked for, as well as some related information that you didn't that may be of future help to me (or others reading this thread):

Jørgen Jensen, later known in Randers as "Jørgen Jensen Boldrup"
married Karen Marie Jensdatter 10 Feb 1843 [Randers Sankt Morten 1838-1844, Opslag 236]
** Note: the marriage was originally registered in 1841, then apparently delayed for an unknown reason
died on 2 Oct 1860 [Randers Sankt Mortens 1850-1872, Opslag 60], apparently of health problems


The couple had 3 children, the first out of wedlock:

Jensine Jensdatter, born 15 Dec 1838 [Randers Sankt Mortens 1838-1844, Opslag 90]
-- married Niels Pedersen (later known as Niels Pedersen Gjødvad) 6 Dec 1859 in Randers [Randers Sankt Morten 1850-1861, Opslag 256, Nr. 86]
Else Marie Jørgensdatter Boldrup, born 16 Nov 1834 [Randers Sankt Mortens 1844-1850, Opslag 99]
Birgitte Marie Jørgensdatter Boldrup, born 20 Oct 1847 [Randers, Sankt Morten 1844-1850, Opslag 139]
-- married Niels Peter Pedersen 12 Sep 1874 in Hørning, Aarhus [Hørning 1869-1884, Opslag 120]

I found one death that may be that of Karen Marie Jensdatter, on 5 Apr 1871 in Randers [Randers Sankt Morten 1850-1872, Opslag 284]. There is a remark related to Niels Pedersen that I cannot understand. Could you confirm that this is "my" Karen Marie Jensdatter based on the remark?

I have not found Karen Marie on the 1870 census of Randers, nor her other two daughters in the 1860 or 1870 censuses.

Best Regards,
Rick

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
If this woman is your Karen Marie, she must have remarried, because I honestly believe that the remark says "Niels Pedersens fraseparerede kone" (the separated wife of Niels Pedersen). She is also younger than your Karen Marie. According to the FT's you have, she was born abt. 1809-1811 and should be about 60 at that time and this woman is only 52.
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi,

That's what I feared... I have had so much difficulty in finding her death record over the years, in part because there is so much census information to go through for 1870 and most of it is not in the DDD. Do you know of any extractions that have been done that are searchable?

She did not go and live with her daughter Jensine and husband Niels Pedersen in Silkeborg, where Jensine eventually died in 1880. She was also not living with the youngest daughter at the time of her her marriage, at least from what I can see. The middle daughter is as difficult to find as herself...which may be an indication that they are together  ???

Thank you for the input.

Warm Regards,
Rick

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
Maybe you have this already but in

KB 1775-1813, Hvilsager, Sønderhald, Randers, opslag 203 is the birth of Karen Marie Jensdatter, born on the 31st July, christened at home on the 1st August and brought to church on the 22nd August 1813,
daughter of Jens Juliusen and Mette Kirstine Danielsdatter in Bendstrup.

I have not found her death in Randers either, so she must be "out there somewhere".

As to the wedding of Jens Jørgensen and Else "Katrine" Nielsdatter you said that there are no parish records in Stenild at that time, that is not correct, there are marriage records, but I have not found anything about JJ and EKN. It is however correct that there are no records for the period of their birth.
So this will no doubt be one of "the harder nuts" to crack.
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillien,

I was having a tough time finding this death record, so I had a feeling it would be a tough nut to crack. I've been through the registers in Randers Sct. Morten 3 times now, but maybe a 4th is in order.

Yes, thank you, I do have her birth record and most other relavent information for the next two generations. I am, however, still looking for her mother's mother's death record. Anna Maria NIELSDATTER was baptized on 9 Sep 1753 (Dom. post Festum Trinitatis) in Skarresø Sogn, Øster Lisbjerg herred in Randers amt [Skarresø-Koed 1748-1788, Opslag 6]. She married Daniel Jørgensen on 15 Aug 1777 [Kolind-Ebdrup-Skarresø 1681-1792, Opslag 318]. She died sometime between the 1787 and the 1801 censuses, I think.

I'm sorry about the misunderstanding concerning the parish registers. In my sentence, the emphasis should have been on the fact that the registers for marriages "just" before the birth, for the 1809-1810 period, are missing...(just those two years, but likely when the marriage occured).

This is what I saw...
Danmarks Kirkebøger:
"Stenild (Gislum H.). F 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91; K 1813-91; T 1702-41; V 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91; D 1702-41, 1794-1808, 1813-91."

Best Regards,
Rick

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillien,

At the time of the 5 Apr 1871 death that you looked at [Randers Sankt Morten 1850-1872, Opslag 284], "my" Karen Marie Jensdatter would have been 57 years old and a widow for almost 11 years. I'm almost certain that her daughter Jensine Jensen and husband Niels Petersen Gjødvad were living together with her in Randers until the time of their departure.

Niels and Jensine left Randers and moved to Silkeborg sometime between 26 Dec 1867 at the time of the baptism of their daughter Caroline Marie Jørgine [Randers Sankt Morten 1865-1868, Opslag 201] and 14 Sep 1869 at the time of the birth of their son Jørgen Peder Marius [Silkeborg 1868-1874, Opslag 11].

There is no sign of her at her daughter Birgitte Marie Jørgensen's wedding on 12 Sep 1874 in Hørning [Hørning 1869-1884, Opslag 120].

All attempts to search for the only remaining daughter, Else Marie Jørgensen, on the DDD and in Randers marriage records, have been unsuccessful to date. The last written trace I can find is her confirmation on 12 Apr 1859 in Randers Sct. Morten [Randers Sankt Morten 1850-1861, Opslag 159], just before her father died.

I hope someone knows where to direct me for extracted probates. I have never used them, but this may be the only other option at the moment, if they exist for Randers.

Thank you again,
Rick

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
I just want to tell you that if you go to the KB for Stenild 1807-1812 you will find the marriage records on Opslag 11 - for the years 1807,1808, and 1809. Opslag 12 has the records for 1810, 1811 and 1812, even though this will not help you because the ones you are looking for are not there. This is also here your Else Cathrine's second marriage is found, so the marriage records for the parish for those years are there, but the right persons are not.
Regards,
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

For further clarification on the topic of her mother's mother's death record...

Anna Maria Nielsdr was baptized on 9 Sep 1753 (Dom. post Festum Trinitatis) in Skarresø Sogn, Øster Lisbjerg herred in Randers amt [Skarresø-Koed 1748-1788, Opslag 6]. She married Daniel Jørgensen on 15 Aug 1777 [Kolind-Ebdrup-Skarresø 1681-1792, Opslag 318].

Daniel Jøgensen died in Chireballe; in Skarresø on 24 Mar 1806 [Skarresø 1793-1814, Opslag 88]. I did not find Anna Maria Nielsdr's death in Skarresø at any time from 1801, when she last appeared on a census, through 1871. Unless I messed something, she moved away and I cannot locate her in the 1834 census anywhere in Randers amt.

Regards,
Rick

[Lillian Møller Pavlovic]

Hi Rick,
At the old DIS-forum I have found, that a member in here called Lennart Frederiksen has done some research of the name Boldrup. Maybe he has some ideas for you to follow. You can contact him on his site fredenslyst.dk.
The place name at Daniels death is not Chireballe but Mesballe.
Regards
Lillian

[Rick Larsen]

Hi Lillian,

Thank you on both counts!! :-)

Rick