I've been working on Peder Frederiksen, the second husband of my gg-grandmother Ane Marie Olesdatter.
In their marriage record in 1847, it lists his age as 37, making his birth date around 1810 (#2).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913159#429167,78546783 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913159#429167,78546783)
In the 1850 census in Sipperup, Ronnebaek parish, it lists his birth place as Herlufmagle parish, Praesto Amt.
In his second marriage it lists his birth date as 4 Jul 1810 (#4).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=429083#429083,78544121 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=429083#429083,78544121)
I believe that that this is his birth/baptism record in Herlufmagle parish (top left). Note birth location as Herluflille.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115896#151310,25136598 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115896#151310,25136598)
Looking for a confirmation record, the only thing I have found is this one in nearby Glumsø parish (#3).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428758#428758,78532195 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428758#428758,78532195)
The birth date and location matches. It appears to list a step father and actual birth father. The big issue is the father's last name doesn't match. What are people opinions?
Art Berggreen
Citat fra: Art Berggreen Dato 05 Mar 2022 - 02:29
I've been working on Peder Frederiksen, the second husband of my gg-grandmother Ane Marie Olesdatter.
In their marriage record in 1847, it lists his age as 37, making his birth date around 1810 (#2).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913159#429167,78546783 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913159#429167,78546783)
In the 1850 census in Sipperup, Ronnebaek parish, it lists his birth place as Herlufmagle parish, Praesto Amt.
In his second marriage it lists his birth date as 4 Jul 1810 (#4).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=429083#429083,78544121 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=429083#429083,78544121)
I believe that that this is his birth/baptism record in Herlufmagle parish (top left). Note birth location as Herluflille.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115896#151310,25136598 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115896#151310,25136598)
Looking for a confirmation record, the only thing I have found is this one in nearby Glumsø parish (#3).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428758#428758,78532195 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428758#428758,78532195)
The birth date and location matches. It appears to list a step father and actual birth father. The big issue is the father's last name doesn't match. What are people opinions?
Update:
I find a record of the death of a Frederick Hansen in Herluflille, Herlufmagle parish 24 Jul 1821.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883141#428842,78534788 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883141#428842,78534788)
and then a marriage of widower Povel Ditmarsen of Glumsø and widow Birthe Pedersdatter of Herluflille
on 12 Nov 1824.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883141#428840,78534728 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883141#428840,78534728)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428762#428762,78532303 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=428762#428762,78532303)
Art Berggreen
Art
Peder Frederiksen
Confirmation record:
At his stepfather Povel Ditmar(sen), smallholder in Glumsø.
Son of late smallholder Frederik Jensen in Herluflille
Born 4 July 1810
------------------ birth and bapt:
The 4th of July 1810 smallholder Frederik Hansen from Herluflille Bøgede a son born, and bapt. the 12th PEDER.
The baptism conf. 12th Sunday after Trinity, carried by farmer Hans Nielsen's wife of Herluflille.
Christian Hansen and Jems Hansen same place were witnesses.
------------------ death and burial
1821 24th/27th of July Frederich Hansen smallholder in Herluflille Bøgede 38 y.o.
------------------ marriage of his widow
1824 12th of Nov. Widower Povel Ditmarsen of Glumsøe and widow Birthe Pedersdatter of Herluflille
- so the puzzle is in place
Ole
Thanks Ole!
So would you agree that the name Frederik Jensen in the confirmation record was an error and should have been Frederik Hansen? All the other records seem to fit together
Also it looks likely that Birthe Pederdatter was Peder Frederiksen's mother. I also found a Margrethe Frederiksdatter born in 1808 that may have been an older sister.
It is too bad there are no censuses between 1803 and 1834.
Art
Yes, Jensen at the confirmation record is of course an error.
And Margrethe born Febr.15, 1808 must be his sister.
Their marriage is here in 1805
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115896#151310,25136561 top left
The 30th June
Bachelor and houseleaser Friderich Hansen and the widow Birthe Lars Hansens*
Best men: farmer Hans Rasmusen and Jens Hansen
*had been married to Lars Hansen - could not find his death or their marriage - but it must be Birthe Pedersdatter,
who at the census 1787 resp.1801 is aged 15 resp. 26 (and in 1824 - 54 yo) - very often totally unreliable !!
And Frederik Hansen in 1787 and 1801
Præstø, Tybjerg, Herlufmagle, Herluflille Bye, En gaard, 91, FT-1787, C0005
Hans Nielsen 53 Gift Mand Gmd
Margrethe Nielsdatter 45 Gift Kone
Jens Hansen 21 Ugift Deres barn
Niels Hansen 17 Ugift Deres barn
Kirsten Hansdatter 11 Ugift Deres barn
Christian Hansen 10 Ugift Deres barn
Peder Hansen 7 Ugift Deres barn
Friderich Hansen 5 Ugift Deres barn
Præstø, Tybjerg, Herlufmagle, Herluflille Bye, , 9, FT-1801, B8974
Hans Nielsen Smed 67 Gift huusbonde bonde og gaardbeboer
Margrete Nielsdatter 59 Gift hans kone
Christian Hansen 24 Ugift deres barn
Frederich Hansen 16 Ugift deres barn
Niels Pedersen 12 Ugift tiennestefolk
Kirsten Jensdatter 22 Ugift tiennestefolk
Ole, mange tak for din hjælp!
And it is a good reminder not to take data from primary sources like parish records or census records without comparing with other data and using some logic!
Now off to find the next puzzle :D,
Art
I think I've found Birthe Pedersdatter in the 1850 census. It lists a birthplace on Fyn as Nære Sogn, but I can't find any parish that might match. Anyone have any ideas?
And can anyone tell me what the note after Birthe Pedersdatter is in the this death record (1868 #6):
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883143#424074,78076134 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883143#424074,78076134)
Art
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year: FT-1850 Source reference: 145
Cadastre/Address: Et Huus
Household No: 16 - F2 Number af families/house: 2
Name: Birthe Pedersdatter
Age: 50 Civil status: Enke
Birth place: Nære Sogn i Fyen
Occupation: Understøttes af Sognet, Huusmd-Enke
Parish: Holme Olstrup District: Hammer
Shire: Præstø Place name: Olstrup Bye
Source entry No: C9306 Record No.: 85
All members of the household
Name: Age: Married?: Pos. in household: Occupation: BirTD place:
Birthe Pedersdatter 50 Enke Understøttes af Sognet, Huusmd-Enke Nære Sogn i Fyen
Karen Marie Rasmusdatter 12 - hendes Datter, Hjælp af Fattigvæsenet I Sognet
Birthe Pedersdatter aged 54 when ~ Povel Ditmarsen in 1824 - i.e. was born ca 1770 !
Ole
Wow Ole, thanks again for all your effort and quick response!
Do you agree that the death record I posted above for Birthe Pedersdatter is her, even if the age seems to be far off?
Art
Citat fra: Art Berggreen Dato 07 Mar 2022 - 17:55
I think I've found Birthe Pedersdatter in the 1850 census. It lists a birthplace on Fyn as Nære Sogn, but I can't find any parish that might match. Anyone have any ideas?
Could it be Nørre Nærå Sogn, Skam Herred, Odense Amt?
or Sønder Nærå Sogn, Åsum Herred, Odense Amt?
They are so far geographically from each other, that they locally might both have been called just Nærå - which, with typically Danish pronunciation "laziness" on syllables after the first stressed syllable, could be /Nære/ in speech?!
The death record in 1868 is not her - born ca 1815.
Povel Ditmarsen died in Glumsø on Febr.1, 1829.
But I did not find the death of Birthe Pedersdatter (born ca 1770) there.
Ole
Oops, sorry but I got crossed up! Peder Frederiksen's mother was a Birthe Pedersdatter born abt 1770. His second wife (Ane Margrethe Rasmusdatter) also had mother named Birthe Pedersdatter and was the one born in 1800. I am sure the the Birthe Pedersdatter in the 1850 census in Holme Olstrup parish is the wife's mother. She is the one born in Nørre Nærå.
Art
Hi Art.
You are correct that the Birthe Pedersdatter born ca. 1800 in "Nære" Fyn is (most likely) the mother of Ane Margrethe Rasmusdatter.
Census 1834: Præstø, Hammer, Holme Olstrup, Holmeolstrup, et Huus, 51, FT-1834, C5336
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Rasmus Andersen 44 Gift Huusmand og Bødker
Birthe Pedersdatter 34 Gift hans Kone
Ane Margrethe Rasmussen 13 Ugift deres Børn
Maren Rasmusdatter 12 Ugift deres Børn
Birthe Kirstine Rasmusdatter 9 Ugift deres Børn
Anders Rasmusen 8 Ugift deres Børn
Peter Rasmusen 6 Ugift deres Børn
Susanne Rasmusdatter 1 Ugift deres Børn
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database
&
Census 1840: Præstø, Hammer, Holme Olstrup, Olstrup Bye, et Huus, 58, FT-1840, C5869
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Rasmus Andersen 50 Gift Bødker
Birthe Pedersdatter 40 Gift hans Kone
Anders Rasmusen 14 Ugift deres Børn
Peter Rasmusen 12 Ugift deres Børn
Susanne Rasmusdatter 6 Ugift deres Børn
Karen Marie Rasmusdatter 2 Ugift deres Børn
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
&
Census 1845: Præstø, Hammer, Holme Olstrup, Olstrup Bye, et huus, 20, FT-1845, B4791
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Nielsen 28 Gift huusmand med jord Herlufmagle sogn
Margrethe Kirstine Pedersdatter 27 Gift hans kone Everdrup sogn
Maren Kirstine Jensdatter 6 - deres børn Fensmark sogn
Hans Peter Jensen 3 - deres børn i Sognet
Birthe Pedersdatter 45 Enke understøttes af fattigvæsenet Nære?? sogn i Fyen
Susanne Rasmusdatter 12 - hendes døttre i Sognet
Karen Marie Rasmusdatter 7 - hendes døttre i Sognet
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
&
Census 1850: Præstø, Hammer, Holme Olstrup, Olstrup Bye, Et Huus, 16 - F2, FT-1850, C9306
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Birthe Pedersdatter 50 Enke Understøttes af Sognet, Huusmd-Enke Nære Sogn i Fyen
Karen Marie Rasmusdatter 12 - hendes Datter, Hjælp af Fattigvæsenet I Sognet
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Died 1. February 1829 in Glumsø Sogn.
Name: Povel Ditmarsen.
Huusmand af Glumsøe.
66 Aar.
Kilde: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/churchbook/sogn987/churchlisting141077/opslag15617223
NB: Maybe there is a probate?!
Næsbyholm og Bavelse Godser.
Register til skifteprotokol (1825-1837).
Povel Ditmarsen. Huusfæster i Glumsøe. Folio 103.
Kilde (s. 15): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22917448#486575,86653494
NB: So he should also have had a "Fæstebrev"!
No registre so it has to be looked through manually.
Næsbyholm og Bavelse Godser.
Skifteprotokol (1825-1837).
The probate informs that the widow Birthe Pedersdatter after her husband Povel Ditmarsens [written Poul Ditmar] death the 1. February 1829 wants to sit in "uskiftet bo" with children [which are not named as no "skifte" before she dies]
Kilde (s. 107, top left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22917444#486574,86653026
NB: So she is still alive at this date, but I can only find a probate of a Birthe Pedersdatter who is a widow of Muurmester Møller in Næsbye.
Kilde (s. 2): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22917448#486575,86653481
NB: She is a Birthe Kirstine Pedersdatter, so not the one we are looking for.
Kilde (s. 313, left): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=22917444#486574,86653232
If you wants to search for Povel Ditmarsens "Fæstebrev" in Glumsø under "Næsbyholm og Bavelse Godser".
See: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21025417#328222,66079194
Vordingborg-Tryggevælde Amter.
Skiftebehandlingsprotol for Vordingborg Amt (1777-1805).
9. September 1805.
Deceased: "indsidder på Herluflille Mark" Lars Hansen.
Widow: ?Birt? Pedersdatter.
Daughter: Marte Sophie 3 years old !!
Witnesses: ?....? Friderick Hansen, her present husband & Huusmand Christopher Nielsen.
Kilde (s. 544 right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17021200#129960,33821498
NB: Maybe Ole can extract som more information out of this?
This must be the daughter in the Census 1834:
Præstø, Tybjerg, Næsby Sogn, Næsbyeholms Teglværk, -, 62, FT-1834, C4651
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Christian Andersen 34 Gift Teglbrænder
Marthe Sophie Larsdatter 33 Gift hans Kone
Andreas Julius Hansen 5 Ugift deres Børn
Birthe Marie Hansen 2 Ugift deres Børn
Sidse Pedersdatter 19 Ugift Tjenestepige
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1850: Holbæk, Merløse, Tersløse Sogn, Brandstrup Bye, et Teglværk, 14, FT-1850, C1484
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Christian Andersen 50 Gift Teglbrænder, Huusfader Fensmark Præstø Amt
Marthe Sophie Larsdatter 48 Gift hans Kone Herlufmagle Præstø A.
Lars Christian Hansen 22 Ugift deres Børn, indkaldt til Krigstjeneste Næsby Præstø A.
Birthe Marie Hansen 18 Ugift deres Børn Næsby Præstø A.
Ferdinand Hansen 16 Ugift deres Børn Næsby Præstø A.
Niels Hansen 15 Ugift deres Børn Næsby Præstø A.
Sophie Hansen 10 Ugift deres Børn Her i Sognet [Tersløse sogn Holbæk amt]
Maren Nielsdatter 30 Ugift Tjenestepige Munkebjergby Sorø Amt
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1860: Holbæk, Merløse, Tersløse Sogn, Brandstrup Skoledistrikt, Brandstrup By, Et Hus, 162, FT-1860, D5581
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Christian Andersen 60 Gift Husfader. Teglbrænder Fensmark Sogn, Præstø Amt
Marthe Sophie Larsen 59 Gift Hans Kone Herlufmagle Sogn, Præstø Amt
Lars Christian Hansen 32 Ugift Deres Barn Næsby Sogn, Præstø Amt
Niels Hansen 23 Ugift Deres Barn Tersløse Sogn, Holbæk Amt
Mine Jensen 30 Ugift Husfaders beslægtede. her i besøg for længere tid Herlufmagle Sogn, Præstø Amt
Karen Knudsdatter 49 Gift Tjener her som Pige Borup
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: She is not born in Herlufmagle Sogn, but probably moved there when she was quite young.
Could this be her?!
Confirmed 1816 in Næsby Sogn.
Name: Marthe Sophie Larsdatter. Baptised: 30. November 1801 in Hammer Sogn.
Father: Lars Hansen in Hammer.
Kilde (s. 2): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913149#428967,78539417
I can't find any Marthe Sophie Larsdatter baptised in Herlufmagle Sogn!
That Lars Hansen was in Hammer at the baptism in 1801 doesn't meant he couldn't have been an "indsidder" in Herlufmagle Sogn some time in between 1801 and his death in 1805?
Baptised 30. November 1801 in Hammer Sogn.
"Huusmand Lars Hansen i Riselodder [= Riselod (Huse) today] med datter": Marthe Sophie [Larsdatter].
Kilde (s. 86): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115617#150776,25006346
NB: How amazing! I have just helped to find a person here in "slægt og data", where we found that a woman, who emigrated to the US, who had been born in Riselod.
A place so small and obscure you can't even find it on google maps!
[It's just south of the town "Lov" in Hammer Sogn]
Thread: https://forum.slaegt.dk/index.php/topic,178186.0.html
Now it is promising! This simply has to be them!
Census 1801: Præstø, Hammer, Hammer Sogn, Hammer Bye, boer paa marken, 17, FT-1801, B6395
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Hansen 31 Gift mand huusmand uden jord
Birthe Pedersdatter 29 Gift hans kone
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: So the hunt for the daughter wielded success!
That they "boer på marken" [live on the outfield] must mean that they lived between "Lov town" in the north and "Hammer town" in the south connected by the road "Hammersvej" where Riselod is located!
This census is just before Marthe Sohie Larsdatter is born and then between 1801 and 1805 they relocate to Herluflille in Herlufmagle Sogn, where Lars Hansen dies.
Now we need to find their marriage! It's generally always for previously unmarried girls, that the marriage takes place in the Bride's parish!
Niels, thank you for all your effort!
I just want to make sure that you know that my primary interest in this Birthe Pedersdatter is her marriage to Frederik Hansen and their son Peter Frederiksen who became the stepfather to one of my great-grandfathers. I'd like to find her birth and death dates and locations if possible. I'll also add her other husbands (Lars Hansen and Povel Ditmarsen) for completeness. I have been in contact with descendants of Peter Frederiksen and am documenting some of his ancestry for their sake. I doubt that I will document the daughter of the first marriage (Marthe Sophie Larsen) and her life, because it is pretty far from my and their lines.
Best,
Art Berggreen
Hi Art.
Finding out in which parish Bodil Pedersdatter was born will likely also be the place where Lars Hansen og Bodil Pedersdatter were married.
Possible Birthe Pedersdatter:
Census 1787: Præstø, Tybjerg, Herlufmagle, Herluflille Bye, En gaard, 87, FT-1787, C0005
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Jensen 54 Gift Mand Gmd
Kirsten Sørensdatter 55 Gift Kone
Søren Hansen 23 Ugift Deres barn
Jens Hansen 14 Ugift Deres barn
Birthe Pedersdatter 15 Ugift Tjenestepige [age born ca. 1772 fits with the 1801 census].
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
No Birthe Pedersdatter of the correct age is confirmed in Herlufmagle Sogn, so likely she moved to Herlufmagle as a servant girl after her confirmation.
mvh
Niels
Census 1850: Præstø, Hammer, Rønnebæk, Sipperup Bye, 62 en Gaard, 62, FT-1850, C9309
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Peder Frederiksen 41 Gift Gmd, Huusfd [Gårdmand, Husfader] Herlufmagle, P. A.
Ane Marie Olesdatter 31 Gift Hans Kone Carlstrup, H.A.
Ane Marie Jørgensdatter 9 - Deres Børn Weiløe, P.A. [Vejlø]
Hendrik Jørgensen 11 - Deres Børn Her i Sognet [Rønnebæk Sogn]
Jørgen Jørgensen 3 - Deres Børn Do [Her i Sognet [Rønnebæk Sogn]]
Frederik Pedersen 1 - Deres Børn Do [Her i Sognet [Rønnebæk Sogn]]
Ane Kirstine Hansdatter 19 Ugift Tjenestefolk Do [Her i Sognet [Rønnebæk Sogn]]
Jacob Nielsen 49 Ugift Tjenestefolk Tybjerg, P.A.
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Lægdsrulle 1822: Herlufmagle Sogn = Lægd 44.
Gammel nummer 145. Nyt nummer 115.
Navn: Peder.
Fader: Frederik Hansen.
Født: Herluflille.
Flytning 42-L-143 [Flytning til Tyvelse Sogn i 1825]
Kilde (s. 176): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17423,778430
Lægdsrulle 1825: Tyvelse Sogn = Lægd 42.
L143. Nyt nummer 115. Peder.
Flytning 41-C-322 [Flytning til Glumsø Sogn i 1828].
Kilde (s. 165): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17424,778803
Lægdsrulle 1828: Glumsø Sogn = Lægd 41.
C322: Peder. Nyt løbenummer 234.
Navn: Peder.
Fader: Frederik Hansen.
Født: Herluflille.
Alder: 17 Aar.
Højde: 60 1/2 tommer.
Opholdssted: Glumsøe.
Kom fra 42-115.
+ some text.....
Kilde (s. 200): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17426,779672
Lægdsrulle 1831: Glumsø. Lægd 41.
Gammel nummer 234. Nyt nummer 195.
Navn: Peder.
Fader: Frederik Hansen.
Fødested: Herluflille.
Alder: 20 Aar.
Højde: 61 1/2 tommer.
Opholdssted: Sorøe [!!]
[Potentially a lot of important text here].
"Tjenlig Trainkudsk."
"husmand Jens Andersen i Aasøe" is mentioned.
also written something about "undersøges ved forhør" -> accused of something?
Kilde (s. 174): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17439,784326
Lægdsrulle 1834: Herlufmagle. Lægd 41.
Peder.
Opholdssted: Glumsøe.
Flytning 40-K-303. [Flytning til Skelby Sogn (at Næstved) i 1835]
1832: ?...?-kudsk. Train Kudsk.
Kilde (s. 139): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17449,788162
Lægdsrulle 1835. Tilgangsrulle. Skelby. Lægd 40.
Nr. 303. Peder.
Opholdssted: Skielbye.
Flytning til Sorøe ?65? -L-274. [Flytning til Karrebæk Sogn i 1836]
Afgk. m. 1836. [afgik militæret i 1836?]
Kilde (s. 75): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17455,790950
Lægdsrulle 1836. Tilgangsrulle. Karrebæk. Lægd 65.
Gammelt nummer 274. Nyt nummer 196.
Peder.
Opholdssted: Karrebæk.
Kilde (s. 150): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17459,792336
Lægsrulle 1839. Karrebæk = Lægd 65.
Gammel nummer 196. Nyt nummer 151.
Peder.
Opholdssted: Karrebæk.
Kilde (s. 119): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17473,797114
Lægdsrulle 1842. Karrebæk = Lægd 65.
Gammel nummer 151. Nyt nummer 117.
Peder.
Opholdssted: Karrebæk.
Kilde (s. 124): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17483,800586
Lægdsrulle 1844. Karrebæk = Lægd 65.
Peder.
Opholdssted: Karrebæk.
Flytning til Præstø 63-V-321 [Flytning til Rønnebæk Sogn i 1845].
Kilde (s. 425): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17525,817676
Lægdsrulle 1845. Rønnebæk = Lægd 63.
Gammelt nummer 321. Nyt nummer 205 [udstreget].
Peder.
Opholdssted: Sipperup.
Slettet af rullen 1847.
Kilde (s. 40): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#17528,818759
Since he should be in Karrebæk Sogn in 1840, this must be him.
Census 1840: Sorø, Øster Flakkebjerg, Karrebæk Sogn, Karrebæk/ Præstegaarden, , 1, FT-1840, B5563
Jens August Brasen 38 Enke Provst, Sognepræst
Ole Frederik Christian Brasen 9 Ugift hans Søn
Caroline Marie Louise Brasen 5 Ugift hans datter
Christiane Emilie Franciska Olsen 30 Ugift huusbestyrinde
Carl Matthias Valdermar Jahn 26 Ugift Præstens Ammunensis
Maren Kirstine Schröder 19 Ugift Barnepige
Ane Juliane Peulike 23 Ugift Stuepige
Karen Cathrine Rasmusdatter 24 Ugift Kokkepige
Mette Christensdatter 18 Ugift Bryggerpige
Peder Frederiksen 30 Ugift Avlskarl
Henrik Rasmussen 21 Ugift Tjenestekarl
Christen Olsen 18 Ugift Rygter
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Census 1845: Præstø, Hammer, Rønnebæk, Rønnebek, et huus, 4, FT-1845, B5183
Peder Larsen 33 Gift Skovfoged her i sognet
Kirsten Jensdatter 28 Gift hans kone Herlufmagle s. Præstø Amt
Peder Frederiksen 36 Ugift Daglaier Mogenstrup s. Præstø Amt
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
This could be him, as there is no Peder Frederiksen born in Mogenstrup Sogn in that ca. 1809-1810 period.
It would fit his movement from Karrebæk Sogn to Rønnebæk Sogn in ca. 1845.
Tilgangsliste Rønnebæk Sogn. [These two entires could easily be the same guy]
11. November 1844: Peter Frederiksen. 34 Aar. Født ca. 1811.
14. April 1845: Peder Frederiksen. 34 Aar. Fra Jernbanen. (Moves to "Rønnebæks Holm" same date as Christen Mikkelsen).
Kilde (s. 4): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913159#429170,78546814
Afgangsliste Karrebæk Sogn.
8. November 1844: Peder Frederiksen, Fødested: Herluflille. 34 Aar. Til Rønnebæks Holm i Rønnebæk Sogn.
Kilde (s. 97, nr, 79 last entry): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21883071#427995,78501487
So we have proved it is "our" Peder Frederiksen who moves 8. November 1844 from Karrebæk Sogn to Rønnebæk Sogn and who settles down in Rønnebæk 14. April 1845 at the latest.
Godsarkiver amt, Præstø, Rønnebæksholm Gods,
Register til Rønnebæksholm Gods fæsteprotokol.
Peder Frederiksen. Sipperup. Gaard.
Ane Olsdatter, Jørgen Hansens Enke. [gaardmand Jørgen Hansen død 26. Juni 1846 i Sipperup, Rønnebæk Sogn]
Date: 10. Aril 1847.
Kilde (s. 5): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=211593&side=5
Anders Hansens fæste (s. 114): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21025429#328274,66094002
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Godsarkiver amt, Præstø, Rønnebæksholm Gods,
Register til Rønnebæksholm Gods fæsteprotokol.
Lars Pedersen. Sipperup. Hus.
Forhenværende gaardmand Peder Frederiksen.
Date: 4. Januar 1853.
Kilde (s. 16): http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=211593&side=16
Fæsteprotokol (s. 106): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026157#329398,66260698
Census 1860: Præstø, Hammer, Rønnebæk, Rønnebæk Skoledistrikt, Sibberup, En Gaard, 68, FT-1860, D5894
Peder Frederiksen 50 Gift Husfader. Jordbruger Herlufmagle Sogn, Præstø Amt
Ane Margrethe Rasmusdatter 39 Gift Hans Kone Olstrup Sogn, Præstø Amt [New Wife as Ane Olesdatter died 10. December 1853 i Rønnebæk Sogn]
Hans Christian Jørgensen 17 Ugift Deres Barn. tjener Forældrene Vester Egesborg Sogn, Præstø Amt
Hendrik Jørgensen 15 Ugift Deres Barn Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Jørgen Jørgensen 13 Ugift Deres Barn Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Frederik Pedersen 11 Ugift Deres Barn Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Karen Sophie Pedersen 9 Ugift Deres Barn Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Rasmus Pedersen 4 Ugift Deres Barn Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Hans Larsen 46 Ugift Tjenestekarl Mogenstrup Sogn, Præstø Amt
Maren Kirstine Christiansdatter 26 Ugift Tjenestepige Rønnebæk Sogn, Præstø Amt
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Niels, thank you for all your effort!
I've got a pretty good picture of the family after the marriage to Ane Marie Olesdatter. My line comes down from Jørgen Hansen and Ane Marie Olesdatter through one of their children Jørgen Jørgensen who emigrated to the USA in 1869. We are in contact with descendants of Peder Frederiksen and his second wife Ane Margrethe Rasmusdatter. The farm Sipperup Østergaard is still owned and operated by one of those descendants. We actually visited some of the family at the farm in 2011.
Art
Hi Art.
So now you have the movements of Peder Frederiksen.
Herluflille in Herlufmagle Sogn 1810-1825.
Tyvelse in Tyvelse Sogn 1825-1828.
Glumsø in Glumsø Sogn 1828-1835. [Though might be in Sorø (town?) from 5. Juli 1830 and Jens Andersen in Aasø is mentioned, as the Lægdsrulle from 1831 states]
[Train Kudsk (= from french "train" -> Logistic, so at this time likely carriage driver moving supplies, ammunition or guns) in 1832 - not clear in what regiment.]
Skelby in Skelby Sogn 1835- 1836.
Karrebæk in Karrebæk Sogn 1836-1844.
Rønnebæksholm in Rønnebæk Sogn 1844/1845-1847 + Sipperup in Rønnebæk Sogn from 1847-
Takes over a "gårdmands-fæste" in Sipperup 10. April 1847 by marrying the widow of Jørgen Hansen = Ane Marie Oldsdatter.
Cheers
Niels
PS: Census 1845 while Jørgen Hansen was still alive.
Præstø, Hammer, Rønnebæk, Sipperup Bye, en Gaard, 63, FT-1845, B5183
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jørgen Hansen 37 Gift Gaardmand Gjordsløv s. Præstø A.
Ane Marie Olesdatter 26 Gift hans kone Carlstrup s. Kjøbenh. A.
Ane Marie Jørgendatter 4 - deres børn Weilø s. Præstø A.
Hans Jørgensen 2 - deres børn Weilø s. Præstø A.
Peder Mikkelsen 31 Ugift Tjenestefolk her i sognet
Rasmus Jensen 22 - Tjenestefolk Wester Egitsborg s. Præstø A.
Sidse Marie Christensdatter 21 - Tjenestefolk Sengeløse s. Kjøbenhavns A
Maren Kirstine Jensdatter 16 - Tjenestefolk Herlufsholms s. Præstø A.
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
In an ongoing effort to find the birthplace of Birthe Pedersdatter and her first marriage to Lars Hansen, I may have a possibility.
I could only find two marriages of a Lars Hansen and a Birthe Pedersdatter in the correct time frame. One was in Garnisons parish in Copenhagen and the other was very close to Herlufmagle parish in the Bråby parish in Sorø Amt.
Given the proximity of the second possibility, that seems the best choice and the marriage date 13 Oct 1799 would line up better with the birth of daughter Marthe Sophie Larsdatter abt. 1801.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562240 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562240)
Given that the bride's first marriage was often in her home parish, I looked for a birth record in Bråby parish and found a possible match Birdte Pedersdatter baptised 19 p. Trinitatis (6 October ) 1771.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562171 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562171)
Any opinions?
Art
Hi Art.
Very good find.....
I'm convinced with 99% certainty that it's Bråby where Birthe Pedersdatter was born in 1771 to "Peder Hansen and Magrethe Rasmusdatter"
Link (page 40): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562171
since the marriage takes place in Bråby between a "ungkarl Lars Hansen from Hammer Sogn" and "Birthe Pedersdatter af Braabye"!
As it was custom to get married in the Bride's parish this ticks all the correct boxes. They likely move to Hammer Parish right after the wedding where Marthe Sophie is born. [Unless you can find an older child, who didn't survive who was born in Bråby or in Hammer Parish]
Baptised 30. November 1801 in Hammer Sogn.
"Huusmand Lars Hansen i Riselodder [= Riselod (Huse) today] med datter": Marthe Sophie [Larsdatter].
Kilde (s. 86): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17115617#150776,25006346
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other children of Peder Hansen & Magrethe Rasmusdatter.
Døbt 1775: Hans Pedersen (page 42). Here father Peder Hansen is "Huusmand".
Begravet 1776: Hans Pedersen, huusmand Peder Hansens søn i Braabye (page 121).
-------------------------------------------
NB: Unclear if same Peder Hansen.
Døbt 1782: Maren, fader Peder Hansen huusmand af Braabye.
Begravet 1787: huusmand Peder Hansens datter i Braabye = Marie, 3 Aar.
Døbt: 1785: Hans, fader Peder Hansen, huusmand i Braabye.
Døbt 1785: Marie, fader Peder Hansen, gaardmand (no place given) -> most likely not "our man"
So not able to find a Peder Hansen & Margrethe Rasmusdatter i Bråby in the census 1787.
Doesn't seemed to have died in Bråby [checked 1775-1787], so they probably moved.
Cheers
Niels
Niels, thank you for the confirmation. It looks like Birdte is a very rarely spelled version of the name. It may have just been the priest's way of spelling it. What little I know of spoken Danish, I think Birdte and Birthe would be pronounced much the same?
Art
Hi Art.
Yeah the priests often wrote how they thought it would be closest to how people pronounced it, so Birdte instead of Birte/Birthe (pronounced the same) probably to indicate a more -d- sound than a -t-. Actually in fast speech I would pronounce it more with a -d- sound, and if really wanted to shout/scold someone I might use a -t- sound?!
Modern Danish pronounciation: https://forvo.com/word/birthe/#da
Actually in 10. Fearuary 1788 in Braaby (Bråby) we have a burial:
Huusmand gl [= gamle] Peder Hansen i Braaby. 79 Aar gammel.
Kilde (s. 123): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562254
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Census 1787: Sorø, Ringsted, Braaby, Braabye, Braabye, , FT-1787, C0018
Peder Hansen (Gl.) 74 Gift Mand Bonde og Huusmand
Margrete Larsdatter 53 Gift hans Kone
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: Ages of people at this time very wildly - this is clearly the guy dying in 1788 as he is also is mentioned as "gl".
So we know that there was supposed to be 2 husmand Peder Hansen in Bråby at that time! Gamle (= old) to distinguish from a younger one.
The young ("unge") one is not "our guy" either: He is way to young for being a father in 1771.
Census 1787: Sorø, Ringsted, Braaby, Braabye, Braabye, , FT-1787, C0018
Peder Hansen (Unge) 28 Gift Mand Bonde og Huusmand
Karen Larsdatter 27 Gift hans Kone
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
Peder Hansen father of Birthe Pedersdatter must have moved away from the parish!
I can't find a Peder Hansen in Oeders Efterretninger 1771 for Bråby Sogn.
So perhaps he was still single or not living in the parish, when Oeder made his lists for married men in the eastern part of Denmark.
There is a third "husmand Peder Hansen" in Braaby:
Census 1787: Sorø, Ringsted, Braaby, Braabye, Braabye, , FT-1787, C0018
Peder Hansen Rod 42 Gift Mand Bonde og Huusmand
Karen Larsdatter 28 Gift hans Kone
Maren Pedersdatter 4 Ugift deres Barn
Hans Pedersen 3 Ugift deres Barn
Kilde: Dansk Demografisk Database.
NB: He has to age to potentially be the father and to have remarried!
&
They got married in 1781 in Bråby and he is stated as "ungkarl", so he has NOT been married before - thus not "our guy".
Kilde (s. 104, bottom right): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=148629#148629,24562235
EDIT: Actually that marriage could also be Peder Hansen (the young one) whose wife is also a Karen Larsdatter......