Greetings All
I am researching my Great Great Grandfather who was born Julius Anders Simonsen in April 1852, it appears he was born out of wedlock and was given his mothers surname rather than his Fathers was this common as he appears in census data living with both parents at some stage it does appear he had a relationship with both his mother & father. Also is there any way I can find out if he attended any school or had any formal education.
Appreciate any help I can get
Kind Regards
Peter
Hello Peter,
wellcome to this forum! Hope you will get a lot of informations.
This should not be complicated.... let us see. First we need confirmation of the basics, I assume this is your great great grandfather? Please confirm or correct...
Name Anders Julius Simonsen
Gender Male
Christening Date 18 Apr 1852
Christening Place SANKT HANS, ODENSE, ODENSE, DENMARK
Father's Name Julius Sillo
Mother's Name Ellen Kirstine Simonsen
Can also be viewed here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z6-XN4G?i=35 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89Z6-XN4G?i=35)
We find them in the 1860 census:
Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Paaskestræde 42, forhuset 1 sal, 1, FT-1860, B0289
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Hans Christensen 30 Gift gaardskarl Lumby sogn, Odense Amt
Ellen Kirstine Simonsen 38 Gift huusbestyrerinde Norup sogn
Anders Julius Simonsen 8 Ugift søn Odense
Frederik Christian 1 Ugift søn Odense
It looks like the mother has been married, but not to the father stated in the church record.
regards
Bjørn
Hello again,
we find him in the 1870 census living at his mothers brother it seems (he is mentioned in the birth record)
Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Tolderlundsveien, 104, Forhuset, 3770, FT-1870, D4595
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lars Simonsen 53 Gift Huusfader Arbeidsmand Verninge Sogn, Odense Amt
Kirsten Rasmussen 64 Gift Huusmoder N. Lyndelse Sogn, Odense Amt
Anders Julius Simonsen 17 Ugift Søn Odense
regards
Bjørn
The father is probably the father of this family:
Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Vestergade 69, stuen, 1, FT-1860, B0289
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Joseph Angelo Sillo 40 Gift kjøbmand Odense
Jens Sørensen 24 Ugift handelcomis Horsens
Stine Møller 32 Ugift tjenestepige Tomerup, Odense Amt
and here
Odense, Odense Købstad, Vestergade, 69, Forhuus første Etage, 4245, FT-1870, D4595
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Joseph Angelo Sillo 49 Gift Huusfader Kjøbmand Odense
Ane Cathrine Sillo 34 Gift Huusmoder Odense
Josephine Gulia [ Anna Josephine Gulia] Sillo 7 Ugift Barn Odense
Vilhelmine Andrea Sillo 5 Ugift Barn Odense
Hertha Constance Sillo 2 Ugift Barn Odense
Frederik Larsen 19 Ugift Tjenende Handelsbetjent Odense
Ane Maria Nielsen 18 Ugift Tjenestepige Kjerteminde
and he dies before 1880, as Cathrine is a widow.
Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kjøbstad, Vestergade 69, forhus 2den sal, 3959, FT-1880, B0082
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Cathrine Sillo 42 Enke(mand) huusmoder, isenkramhandel Odense
Anna Josephine Sillo 17 Ugift hendes datter do [Odense]
Vilhelmine Andrine Sillo 14 Ugift hendes datter do [Odense]
Hertha Constance Julie Marie Sillo 12 Ugift hendes datter do [Odense]
Valdemar Gulius Sillo 8 Ugift hendes søn do [Odense]
Eline Kristiane Larsen 22 Ugift bestyrer huset do [Odense]
Steffen Marius Dichmann 16 Ugift handelslærling do [Odense]
Ane Kristine Petersen 16 Ugift tjenestepige do [Odense]
Victor Olaf Anders Nielsen Iversen 22 Ugift forretningsfører Viborg
Jens Frederik Ludvig Larsen 31 Ugift kjøbmand Odense
you find his confirmation here, 1866 in St. Hans sogn, Odense,
http://www.ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=350339&side=55 (http://www.ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=350339&side=55)
with wellknown information of his parents. So i see no signs of him living with the father
Concerning your first question of surname, he probably got his mothers name because the father gave any allowance to use his name. We are at a point in time where the patronyms (like Simonsen = son of Simon) was "frozen" and then became a family name, as it was in this case. In the old patronym system, he should have been called Juliussen, but this did not happen.
regards
Bjørn
Hi again,
sorry, there was a misspelling: He probably got his mothers name because the father never gave any allowance to use his name.
There was a law in 1828 concerning namegiving, and a the guideline letter for the bishops is noted
"At det uægte Barn ikke uden den opgivne Barnefaders Samtykke maa døbes med hans Familienavn, men at det bør have Navn efter Moderen, hvilket denne dog kan lade danne enten efter et hendes fornavne, eller af dets Fødselssted."
or something like
"That the illegitimate child should not - without the consent of the stated father of child - be baptized with his family name , but that it should have the name after the mother, which, however, may be made by either of her first names or by the child's place of birth."
The particular law of 1828 was never fully implemented or enforced, and large local differences were seen.
Hope this clarifies.
regards
Bjørn
Please see additional information here:
https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,125459.0.html
https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,127689.0.html
Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal
Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Odense Kiøbstad, Vestergade nordre deel no 281, , FT-1850, B5984
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birth place:
G.* Silla 58 Enke(mand) handelsmand. huusfader Italien * Giulio / Julius
J.* Silla 30 Ugift handelsbetjent Odense *Joseph
C. A. Silla 22 Ugift handelsbetjent Odense
H. P. Holst 31 Ugift handelsbetjent Viborg
Julie Silla 27 Ugift datter Odense
Marie Silla 27 Ugift datter Odense
1855 Census, same address: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=121185#121185,17486340
As for Anders Julius' education, school was compulsory from the age of 7 until confirmation at the age of 14-15 y.
He would have learned to read, write, and reckon. The pupils also had religious education and singing lessons,
and were taught history and geography, as well as physical education.
Venlig hilsen
Inger
Thank you for your informative responses, very much appreciated.
I have recently learned through an obituary of Julius Simonsen that he was the recipient of a medal from the navel authorities for saving a life at sea, is there any data base that may confirm this or have a citation.
Once again thank you for your assistance.