Hi,
I would like some help in finding my great-great-grandfather. He was born in Denmark between the 1920s and the 1940s.
Between about 1869 and 1880, based on the information strips my family has recorded, he brought two Danish children back to Denmark from Hong Kong as a task for a friend or customer. My research had revealed that friend or customer was likely to be George Johan Helland. In Hong Kong, Helland's roles include: Head of John Burd and Company in Hong Kong in 1862; Consul for Denmark, Sweden and Norway; member of the committee who founded the Hongkong and Shanghai Bank (HSBC) in 1864; and General Agent (China) for Det Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskab.
The names of the children my gt-gt-grandfather brought back to Denmark, on behalf of Helland, were Harriet Mary Helland b 13-SEP-1868 and George Douglas Helland b 25-AUG-1869. Both were born in Hong Kong, China. Danish Census 1880 showed Harriet Mary to be staying with Larsen family in Aalborg, while George Douglas was with Mossin family in Soro. Danish Census 1885 showed Harriet to be reunited with George Johan Helland and her family in Copenhagen.
The other clue to who my gt-gt-grandfather was, is that there are four possible spelling of the last name: Vang, Von, Wang and Vaughn (maybe also Vingt, Vaugh...). There are three versions of the first name: Carl, Karl, and Carlos. Our family name, Wong, originated from someone choosing the closest sound to eg. "Vang". Another clue is that he was a sea pilot or captain, and was an honorary consul. These clues are from stories that were carried through generations of my family, so that information may or may not be accurate. My gt-gt-grandfather left a wife and two children in Hong Kong.
The closest I came to who he might be, by name sound-like and time-line match, is Carl Frederik Vang, b1848 in Aalborg. However, I was not able to come across any information which indicated he had travelled to seaports, namely Hong Kong, Shanghai, Dalian and Port Arthur (now Lushan) in China. Carl was a shipbuilder according to Danish Census 1885, staying at Hotel Nationale in Copenhagen. Also, I found on MyHeritage that he in 1879 acquired Dyreborg's shipbuilding yard in Faaborg. Carl died in 1887, at age 38.
If anyone could help with identifying who my gt-gt-grandfather is, that would be wonderful. Thank-you. :)
Michael Chang-Wong
Hi,
I suppose you mean your g-g-grandfather was born between 1820 and 1840.
Eva M
I'll just show the censuses you mentioned:
Census 1880, Aalborg: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid10196823 - see Original Source
- Harriet Mary is staying with her uncle Lorentz Waage Sass and his wife.
- compare with Census 1850, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid7237317
Census 1880, Herlufsholm: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid10818960
- George Douglas is staying with schoolmaster Mossin's family at Herlufsholm Boarding School.
Census 1885, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid15300784
- the younger children are born in Denmark.
Son Amund Helland was born 8 Jul. 1873 in Søllerød parish (north of Copenhagen):
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn595/churchlisting132312/opslag14203613 - No 1
Helland resigned from his post as Danish Consul in Hong Kong in Oct. 1872:
http://www2.statsbiblioteket.dk/mediestream/avis/record/doms_aviser_page%3Auuid%3Ae83c79e2-1b7f-4293-ae44-683e84f56a14/query/consul%20helland
- 1st column: Afskedigelser
According to the 1901 Census, he settled in Copenhagen 1883, and his wife 1882:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=24610#24610,2822163
- daughter Emily Georgina, however, was born in Copenhagen 5 May 1876.
Seems the family was abroad at the time of the 1880 Census.
Best regards,
Inger Toudal
Palæmona Elisabeth Sass was G J Helland's 2nd wife:
http://denstoredanske.dk/Dansk_Biografisk_Leksikon/S%C3%B8fart_og_luftfart/Skibsreder/Chr._Sass
Citat
Harriet Mary (Hatty) Helland, født 13.9.1868 i Hongkong, død 5.6.1950 i Kbh., d. af direktør for Store Nordiske Telegrafselskabs afdeling i Hongkong,
konsul, senere overregnskabsfører ved samme selskab George Johan H. (1830–1906, gift 2. gang 1872 med Palæmona Elisabeth Sass, 1843–1933)
og Josephine Isabella Douglas Browne (1847–71).
His 1st wife died in 1871, so the 2 children of his 1st marriage were probably brought to Denmark after the death of their mother 1871.
Best regards,
Inger
Here is Harriet Mary Helland in Copenhagen in 1915. http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2195745&searchname=polit_simple
Here is George Johan Helland in Copenhagen with his second wife and two children. He was born in Bergen, Norway on 18 Oct 1830. http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=3333437&searchname=polit_simple
As I understand you, the Helland family is NOT a part of your family - just friendly helpers.
Is that correct?
You suggest that maybe your g-g-grandfather could be something like Carl Frederik Vang.
You write that he left wife and 2 children in Hong Kong. Did he ever return himself to Hong Kong after
having brought the 2 children to DK?
Census 1885 Hotel National Vesterbrogade 2E (with CFV and prob. his brother CTV)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=254386#254386,47679819
Guest Nr. 42 Carl Frederik Vang - 36 yo - married - born in Aalborg - master shipbuilder in Aarhus
- - 43 Christian Theodor Vang - 40 yo - do - - do - manufactorer in Aalborg
They are prob. here in 1850 census
Aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Kongens Gade, 6 Rode, F1, 516 (478d), FT-1850, C9967
Name: Age: Status: Pos. in family: Occupation: Place of birth:
Niels Peter Wang 38 Married housefather builder Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Dorthea Chrestine born Bonnesen 34 Gift hans kone Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Lauritz 12 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Adolph?? Sigfred 9 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Chrestian Theodor 6 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Andreas Peter Andersen 4 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Frederik 2 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Niels Peter Wang got married 22.dec.1837 (died 25.may 1878)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=173114#173114,29084344 nr 25
to Dorthea Christine Bonnesen (she died 29.nov.1885, age 70 Budolfi)
NPW's best man is prob. his father builder (murmester) L. Wang
Name index church records Aalborg 1814-1891
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=188614#188614,31880700
L. Wang is prob. Laurits Wang, builder, who dies 25. sept. 1838, age 53 (Vor Frue p.)
(he got married 2. time 7. nov. 1820 (Budolfi p.)
DCB's - - - - her - master shipbuilder and 'Dannebrogsmand'* Bonnesen
*person decorated with the Silver Cross of the Order of the Dannebrog (the Danish nat. flag)
Ole
And here is the death of Georg Johan Helland. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118391#155745,26030465
Here is the birth of Carl Frederik Wang on July 25, 1848 - bapt. Oct. 15
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=173116#173116,29084701 nr. 27
Parents:
Muuurmester (master builder) Niels Peter Wang and wife Dorthea Christence Bonnesen in Kongensgade.
Ole
Here is Georg Douglas Helland in the 1916 census with his wife and child. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C952-RS4P-H?i=952&cc=2691890
Here is the birth of Harriet Mand Helland to Georg Douglas Helland and Johanne Sørensen. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17138175#180645,30661347
And here is the marriage of Georg Douglas Helland and Johanne Sørensen. I can read Georg Douglas´mother as Josephine Isabella but can´t make out her last name. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17118407#155801,26044211
I think this is the baptism of Georg Johan Helland´s wife.
Josephine Isabella Browne
England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8), 1588-1977
Name: Josephine Isabella Browne
Event Type: Baptism
Christening Date: 26 Mar 1847
Christening Place: Paris, France
Father's Name: John Nicholls Browne
Mother's Name: Harriet Mary
Affiliate Publication Number: RG33_070
The marriage of John Nicholls Browne and Harriet Mary Duke.
John Nicholls Browne
England Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: John Nicholls Browne
Spouse's Name: Harriet Mary Duke
Event Date: 07 May 1846
Event Place: Saint Martin In The Fields,Westminster,London,England
Citat fra: Eva Morfiadakis [1284] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 17:44
Hi,
I suppose you mean your g-g-grandfather was born between 1820 and 1840.
Eva M
Hi,
I mean my g-g-grandfather was born between 1820 and 1849 (and maybe even a little later than that). This was based on the family story that he was likely to have born in early- to mid-1800s, given his first-born child was born in 1870.
Thanks.
Michael
After J G Hellands's 1st wife died in 1871, he remarried in Søllerød, Denmark, 6 Jul. 1872:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17118982#157242,26374858 - No 12
Children were born in Denmark 1873 and 1876 (see above).
According to info at geni.com, a daughter was born in Copenhagen 31 aug. 1874:
https://www.geni.com/people/Emma-Pal%C3%A6mona-Helland/6000000010991986606
- and another daughter was born in Shanghai, China, 24 Feb. 1880:
https://www.geni.com/people/Anna-Pal%C3%A6mona-Helland/6000000010991954438
See also http://rosenkilde.nu/elisabeth-palaemona-sass/
Why would J G Helland ask somebody else to bring his young children of 1st marriage to Denmark, when he himself travelled there to remarry in July 1872?
Carl Frederik Vang/Wang, b. 1848 in Aalborg, died 25 Mar. 1887 in Aarhus, Denmark. According to the church record he was unmarried:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17128480#173243,29117156 - No 39
Another query re Carl Vang: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6785&whichpage=1
Best regards,
Inger
When are the two children born i China? One in 1870??
1870 i Copenhagen, last residense Aalborg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS21-R9ZN-9?i=656&cc=2778656
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/forum/message7452
The death record for Carl stated he died in 1887 in Aarhus, at age 38. He died young. From my information, he had left behind two of his own children in Hong Kong. One of them became the first Comprador of the Hong Kong and Kowloon Wharf and Godown Company. His name was Wong Kam Fuk (also Wong Kam Fook) b 1870-Feb-6. He was born in Dalian, a seaport in China, but he and his mother was brought to Hong Kong by Carl. Carl also called his son by the name, "Charlie". Carl was said to have been a sea pilot or sea captain plying the sea ports of Dalian, Port Arthur (now Lushun), and Shanghai. He might have been a honorary consul, too. Kam Fuk's surname, Wong, originated from someone choosing the closest sound to "Vang".
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 20:56
I'll just show the censuses you mentioned:
Census 1880, Aalborg: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid10196823 - see Original Source
- Harriet Mary is staying with her uncle Lorentz Waage Sass and his wife.
- compare with Census 1850, Copenhagen: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid7237317
The Census 1880 I mentioned was this: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL64-3K3T
Harriet Mary was staying with Larentz Waage Sap and Johanne Magdelene Sop Født Jensen. Not the Larsen family, who I mistakenly read off the same original Census 1880 page image.
I can see that it is actually the same Census page as you were referring to! Except that the transcription was different. Petrine Mary Holland in Danishfamily search, Harriet Mary Helland in Familysearch. Uncle surname, I can't make out from the writing if it is Sap, Saps, Safs or Sass.
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 20:56
Helland resigned from his post as Danish Consul in Hong Kong in Oct. 1872:
http://www2.statsbiblioteket.dk/mediestream/avis/record/doms_aviser_page%3Auuid%3Ae83c79e2-1b7f-4293-ae44-683e84f56a14/query/consul%20helland
- 1st column: Afskedigelser
Interesting. So he was in his post as Danish Consul in Hong Kong for 10 years.
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 20:56
According to the 1901 Census, he settled in Copenhagen 1883, and his wife 1882:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=24610#24610,2822163
- daughter Emily Georgina, however, was born in Copenhagen 5 May 1876.
Seems the family was abroad at the time of the 1880 Census.
So, Helland might had been abroad at various stages until 1883 or thereabout. Makes sense given his long, notable career in China.
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 21:35
Palæmona Elisabeth Sass was G J Helland's 2nd wife:
http://denstoredanske.dk/Dansk_Biografisk_Leksikon/S%C3%B8fart_og_luftfart/Skibsreder/Chr._Sass
Citat
Harriet Mary (Hatty) Helland, født 13.9.1868 i Hongkong, død 5.6.1950 i Kbh., d. af direktør for Store Nordiske Telegrafselskabs afdeling i Hongkong,
konsul, senere overregnskabsfører ved samme selskab George Johan H. (1830–1906, gift 2. gang 1872 med Palæmona Elisabeth Sass, 1843–1933)
og Josephine Isabella Douglas Browne (1847–71).
His 1st wife died in 1871, so the 2 children of his 1st marriage were probably brought to Denmark after the death of their mother 1871.
Best regards,
Inger
That's interesting, too. Thanks Inger. I had thought the two children might have been brought back to Denmark because of yet another serious disease outbreak in Hong Kong. Now, it is more likely because of the death of their mother in 1871. The story os becoming more clear.
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 04 Sep 2018 - 09:07
After J G Hellands's 1st wife died in 1871, he remarried in Søllerød, Denmark, 6 Jul. 1872:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17118982#157242,26374858 - No 12
Children were born in Denmark 1873 and 1876 (see above).
According to info at geni.com, a daughter was born in Copenhagen 31 aug. 1874:
https://www.geni.com/people/Emma-Pal%C3%A6mona-Helland/6000000010991986606
- and another daughter was born in Shanghai, China, 24 Feb. 1880:
https://www.geni.com/people/Anna-Pal%C3%A6mona-Helland/6000000010991954438
See also http://rosenkilde.nu/elisabeth-palaemona-sass/
Why would J G Helland ask somebody else to bring his young children of 1st marriage to Denmark, when he himself travelled there to remarry in July 1872?
It would, of course, be possible that the 2 children of 1st marriage were brought to Denmark in the period 1876/1877 to 1880 (for educational purposes?),
as it seems the Helland family was living in China for a while, before settling in Copenhagen 1881/1882/1883.
Best regards,
Inger
Citat fra: Ole Westermann [1234] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 22:53
As I understand you, the Helland family is NOT a part of your family - just friendly helpers.
Is that correct?
That's correct. I do NOT think Helland is part of my family. I was told my g-g-grandfather took two of his four children back to what is likely Norway, leaving two behind in Hong Kong. My research with the help of Norway Heritage, which was based on identifying who these two children were, and based on records there and in Danishfamilysearch, had led me to conclude my g-g-grandfather took two children as a service for some person in Hong Kong.
Norway Heritage: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6785
Citat fra: Ole Westermann [1234] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 22:53
You suggest that maybe your g-g-grandfather could be something like Carl Frederik Vang.
You write that he left wife and 2 children in Hong Kong. Did he ever return himself to Hong Kong after
having brought the 2 children to DK?
My family has no idea. What I do know is that one of the children he left behind, was said to have come from a wealthy family. It is likely that child, and his sister and mother, was bequeathed some wealth. That child, name Wong Kam Fuk (also Wong Kam Fook), went to Queen College, an exclusive school in Hong Kong, and later became the first ever Comprador of of the Hongkong and Kowloon Wharf and Godown Company in Hong Kong, served in many directorships, committees, and was appointed a Justice of the Peace for the colony. It was written in a book "Wharf: the First One Hundred Years", that he came from a wealthy family. Wong Kam Fuk is half Chinese and half, I think, Danish.
Also, it was rumoured that something like Carl Vang did return to China, did what he did before (a sea merchant), and died in Dalian. But that's just rumours. Nobody actually ever saw him. Maybe he might have returned to Denmark re-settled there, and died young.
Citat fra: Ole Westermann [1234] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 22:53
Census 1885 Hotel National Vesterbrogade 2E (with CFV and prob. his brother CTV)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=254386#254386,47679819
Guest Nr. 42 Carl Frederik Vang - 36 yo - married - born in Aalborg - master shipbuilder in Aarhus
- - 43 Christian Theodor Vang - 40 yo - do - - do - manufactorer in Aalborg
They are prob. here in 1850 census
Aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Kongens Gade, 6 Rode, F1, 516 (478d), FT-1850, C9967
Name: Age: Status: Pos. in family: Occupation: Place of birth:
Niels Peter Wang 38 Married housefather builder Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Dorthea Chrestine born Bonnesen 34 Gift hans kone Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Lauritz 12 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Adolph?? Sigfred 9 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Chrestian Theodor 6 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Andreas Peter Andersen 4 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Frederik 2 Ugift hans søn Aalborg Aalborg Amt
Niels Peter Wang got married 22.dec.1837 (died 25.may 1878)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=173114#173114,29084344 nr 25
to Dorthea Christine Bonnesen (she died 29.nov.1885, age 70 Budolfi)
NPW's best man is prob. his father builder (murmester) L. Wang
Name index church records Aalborg 1814-1891
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=188614#188614,31880700
L. Wang is prob. Laurits Wang, builder, who dies 25. sept. 1838, age 53 (Vor Frue p.)
(he got married 2. time 7. nov. 1820 (Budolfi p.)
DCB's - - - - her - master shipbuilder and 'Dannebrogsmand'* Bonnesen
*person decorated with the Silver Cross of the Order of the Dannebrog (the Danish nat. flag)
Ole
Interesting. Yes, I was aware that for some unknown reasons, his brother was staying in the same hotel as Carl when Census 1885 was taken.
Ole, who was the person who was decorated with the Silver Cross?
Ole, who was the person who was decorated with the Silver Cross?
That was the father of Dorothea Christence Bonnesen, Niels Bonnesen, master ship builder.
Niels Bonnesen died 22.aug.1853 - age 63
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=173116#173116,29085156 nr 139
Birth Nov. 11, 1815 and baptism at home Nov. 13 of Dorothea Christence Bonnesen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=172997#172997,29050271 nr 4
Parents: Skibsbygmester Niels Bondesen and Johanne Hauerslev*
*were married 8.sept.1815 (she was widow after ship captain Hans Peter Arboe) in Budolfi church, Ålborg,
and she died Jan.8, 1866, age 75
Aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Nyehavns Søndre Side, No. 556 Lit. D, 1 familie, 1124, FT-1834, B6292
Niels Bonnesen 45 Gift Skibstømmermester
Johanne 41 Gift Hans kone
Dorthea Christence 19 Ugift Deres datter
Maren Sophie 15 Ugift Deres datter
Bonne Julius 13 Ugift Deres søn
Anna Elisabeth 11 Ugift Deres datter
Hansine Kierstine 8 Ugift Deres datter
Lambert 7 Ugift Deres søn
----------
Census Aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Fjordgyden, No 556 d, 556 d, FT-1840, C5067
Niels Bonnesen 50 Gift Skibsbygmester Dannebrogsmand
Johanne Bonnesen 47 Gift hans Kone
Marie Sophie [Bonnesen] 20 Ugift deres Datter
Bonne Julius [Bonnesen] 18 Ugift deres Søn, Tømmerlærling
Ane Elisabeth [Bonnesen] 16 Ugift deres Datter
Hansine Kirstine [Bonnesen] 13 Ugift deres Datter
Lambech Bonnesen 12 Ugift deres Søn
-------------
Census Aalborg, Fleskum, Aalborg Købstad, Nyehavnsgade, No. 556, 150, FT-1845, A4473
Niels Bonnesen 56 Gift Skibsbygemester (born in) Corsøer (Korsør)
Johanne 52 Gift hans Kone Aalborg
Maren 25 Ugift hans Datter Aalborg
Bonne 24 Ugift hans Søn, Skibsbygemester Aalborg
Ane 21 Ugift hans Datter Aalborg
Hansine 19 Ugift hans Datter Aalborg
Lanbert 17 Ugift hans Søn, Lærling Aalborg
Julius 16 Ugift hans Brodersøn, Lærling Nyested paa Laalland
Petrea Møller 15 - hans Datterdatter Aalborg
Ole
Citat fra: Michael Chang [57718] Dato 04 Sep 2018 - 09:56
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 03 Sep 2018 - 21:35
Palæmona Elisabeth Sass was G J Helland's 2nd wife:
http://denstoredanske.dk/Dansk_Biografisk_Leksikon/S%C3%B8fart_og_luftfart/Skibsreder/Chr._Sass
Citat
Harriet Mary (Hatty) Helland, født 13.9.1868 i Hongkong, død 5.6.1950 i Kbh., d. af direktør for Store Nordiske Telegrafselskabs afdeling i Hongkong,
konsul, senere overregnskabsfører ved samme selskab George Johan H. (1830–1906, gift 2. gang 1872 med Palæmona Elisabeth Sass, 1843–1933)
og Josephine Isabella Douglas Browne (1847–71).
His 1st wife died in 1871, so the 2 children of his 1st marriage were probably brought to Denmark after the death of their mother 1871.
Best regards,
Inger
That's interesting, too. Thanks Inger. I had thought the two children might have been brought back to Denmark because of yet another serious disease outbreak in Hong Kong. Now, it is more likely because of the death of their mother in 1871. The story is becoming more clear.
Citat fra: Gitte Johansen [67] Dato 04 Sep 2018 - 09:10
When are the two children born i China? One in 1870??
1870 i Copenhagen, last residense Aalborg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS21-R9ZN-9?i=656&cc=2778656
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/forum/message7452
The death record for Carl stated he died in 1887 in Aarhus, at age 38. He died young. From my information, he had left behind two of his own children in Hong Kong. One of them became the first Comprador of the Hong Kong and Kowloon Wharf and Godown Company. His name was Wong Kam Fuk (also Wong Kam Fook) b 1870-Feb-6. He was born in Dalian, a seaport in China, but he and his mother was brought to Hong Kong by Carl. Carl also called his son by the name, "Charlie". Carl was said to have been a sea pilot or sea captain plying the sea ports of Dalian, Port Arthur (now Lushun), and Shanghai. He might have been a honorary consul, too. Kam Fuk's surname, Wong, originated from someone choosing the closest sound to "Vang".
Hi Gitte,
The message7452 was by me :)
The 1870 Census had Carl Vang in København, That, I was already aware. Not sure if he had been travelling back and forth between Denmark and China, May he had, maybe he never had.
If only there is a way finding out WHEN the children Harriet Mary Helland and Georg Douglas Helland arrived in Denmark, and WHO chaperoned them. Only then, the mystery might get solved and we get our genealogy completed.
Best regards,
Michael.
At the time of the 1880 Census (1 Feb. 1880) Carl Frederik Vang was living in Faaborg city on the island of Funen:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid9622834
- his name is erroneously recorded as Ernst Frederik Vang, his trade is shipbuilder, born in Aalborg, single.
1880 Census, Faaborg: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=57736#57736,12090564
- the house where he's staying was owned by shipbuilder R. Dyreborg's widow's heirs:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=57736#57736,12090563
- according to several sources on the Internet, he had acquired R. Dyreborg's shipbuilding yard in Faaborg 1879.
Best regards,
Inger
Michael
Take a look at this article
https://mfs.dk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/1959Etgammelttraeskibsvaerft23-43.pdf
with fine models of the yard in Fåborg.
An old wooden shipbuilding yard.
At page 37-38:
Omkring 1879 overtoges Dyreborgs værft af skibsbygger Carl
Frederik Wang, der var født i Ålborg 1848 og tog borgerskab i
Fåborg 1879. Dyreborg var død 1873, men hans enke, Elise
Dyreborg, fortsatte driften nogle år endnu. Kort efter gik det
hele dog over til Rasmus Møller, idet Wang opsagde sit borgerskab
1882.
--------- translation:
Around 1879 Dyreborgs yard was taken over by shipbuilder Carl
Frederik Wang, who was born i Ålborg 1848 and took citizenship in
Fåborg 1879. Dyreborg had died 1873, but his widow, Elise
Dyreborg, continued the yard the following years. Shortly after everything
was taken over by Rasmus Møller, as Wang denounced his citizenship
1882.
CitatIf only there is a way finding out WHEN the children Harriet Mary Helland and Georg Douglas Helland arrived in Denmark,
Georg Douglas Helland acquired Danish citizenship in 1889 - stating that he arrived in Denmark 1871
Efternavn: Helland Fornavn: G.D.
Erhverv: Student Fødeland: Kina
Fødselsår: 1869 I DK fra: 1871
Bopæl, lokalitet: København Amt, region: København og Frederiksberg
Lov af: 01 03 1889 Tillæg: B
Løbenr: 118
Carl Frederik Vang did his military service in 1869:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481029#19773,1593892 - O 64
He moved to Copenhagen in Jan. 1870:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16504370#187177,31771520 - U 86
- and back to Aalborg in Dec. 1870:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481029#19793,1600481 - U 151
He did his military service in the Navy. But there is no mentioning of a Søfartsbog (discharge book),
which he would have needed for the military authorities, if he had later been in the merchant navy.
In the 1870 Census, he is registered as a Skibsconstructeur (naval constructor).
EDIT: Consul Helland, Hongkong, arrived at Hotel Kongen af Dannmark in Copenhagen 9 Dec. 1871 (see Gitte's post below).
Best regards,
Inger
http://www2.statsbiblioteket.dk/mediestream/avis/record/doms_aviser_page%3Auuid%3A54c80a2b-6ef2-49b1-bbe6-9d06b395637f/query/helland
Thanks for the wonderful help so far, everyone.
Given that George Johan Helland was a Consul in Hong Kong, and Company Representative for Det Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskabin East Asia/China from circa 1876, I wonder if there is a photograph of Helland held somewhere in the Danish archives. I tried the internet, but did not succeed in finding one.
Here is a photograph of my g-g-grandfather: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ng64ltw8hdncbwv/Carl%20Vang.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ng64ltw8hdncbwv/Carl%20Vang.jpg?dl=0)
I would welcome any comments!
Here is an interesting piece regarding Niels Peter Vang (Carl Frederik's father) - in Danish
http://www.gravsted.dk/person.php?navn=nielspetervang
and in this pdf (almost the same text but with more family information) person no. 17 on the document's page 23
https://www.aalborg.dk/media/1210298/kirkegaardspjece.pdf
Best
Lis
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 04 Sep 2018 - 14:15
Carl Frederik Vang did his military service in 1869:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481029#19773,1593892 - O 64
He moved to Copenhagen in Jan. 1870:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16504370#187177,31771520 - U 86
- and back to Aalborg in Dec. 1870:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?epid=16481029#19793,1600481 - U 151
He did his military service in the Navy. But there is no mentioning of a Søfartsbog (discharge book),
which he would have needed for the military authorities, if he had later been in the merchant navy.
In the 1870 Census, he is registered as a Skibsconstructeur (naval constructor).
EDIT: Consul Helland, Hongkong, arrived at Hotel Kongen af Dannmark in Copenhagen 9 Dec. 1871 (see Gitte's post below).
Given the facts mentioned above, I don't think Carl Frederik Vang b. 1848 in Aalborg is your g-g-grandfather.
He was doing his military service in the Danish Navy from 1 Apr. 1869 to 15 Oct. 1869.
It's also likely that consul George Johan Helland brought the 2 children from his 1st marriage to Denmark in Dec. 1871.
In 1889, his son George Douglas stated in his application for Danish citizenship that he had been living in Denmark since 1871.
It seems that the Helland family spent the years between 1872 and 1876/1877 in Denmark, and left behind the two oldest children
when they moved abroad. The family returned to Copenhagen in 1882/1883.
As I understand it, it's possible that Carl Vang was originally from Norway: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6785
Best regards,
Inger
Citat fra: Lis Helleberg [19470] Dato 06 Sep 2018 - 20:06
Here is an interesting piece regarding Niels Peter Vang (Carl Frederik's father) - in Danish
http://www.gravsted.dk/person.php?navn=nielspetervang
and in this pdf (almost the same text but with more family information) person no. 17 on the document's page 23
https://www.aalborg.dk/media/1210298/kirkegaardspjece.pdf
Best
Lis
Interesting, Lis. So, Niels also bought shipyards for his sons, and have a street named after him. A distinguished gentleman!
Please see my next response post to Ing below.
Hi Ing,
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 06 Sep 2018 - 22:28
Given the facts mentioned above, I don't think Carl Frederik Vang b. 1848 in Aalborg is your g-g-grandfather.
He was doing his military service in the Danish Navy from 1 Apr. 1869 to 15 Oct. 1869.
I have started to think the same thing a couple of days ago.
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 06 Sep 2018 - 22:28
It's also likely that consul George Johan Helland brought the 2 children from his 1st marriage to Denmark in Dec. 1871.
In 1889, his son George Douglas stated in his application for Danish citizenship that he had been living in Denmark since 1871.
It seems that the Helland family spent the years between 1872 and 1876/1877 in Denmark, and left behind the two oldest children
when they moved abroad. The family returned to Copenhagen in 1882/1883.
Thanks for the information on his son George Douglas's statement he had been living in Denmark since 1871. That makes it the same as George Johan Helland's statement in acquiring Danish citizenship in 1889, that George Johan arrived in Denmark in 1871. I also agree that in 1876/1877 George Johan Helland's family moved abroad. According to one of the articles contributed by very helpful members above, including yourself, he was appointed General Agent (China) for Det Store Nordiske Telegraf-Selskab in 1876, and one of his daughters was born in Shanghai in 1880 (sadly, she was record as 'deceased' at around 6 months of age).
Citat fra: Inger Toudal [1655] Dato 06 Sep 2018 - 22:28
As I understand it, it's possible that Carl Vang was originally from Norway: http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6785
As you might have known already, that topic was set up by me.
It was thought the person's name might be "Carl Vang" (based just on word-of-mouth passed on from generation to generation). It was said that the person is Norwegian. It was thought therefore he might have returned to Norway with two children. So I started with Norway first. Research revealed that there seems to be no 'sound-like' person for "Carl Vang" in Norway that fits the story about his being in China. I then, with the help of the Norwegian contributors, checked their digitalarkivet for the two children who was said to have born in Hong Kong or China, between the years 1865 and 1875 and research their genealogy.
The only name remain after a process of elimination, was Harriet Mary Helland, but no sibling. Also, there was just one Census record of her in Norway, in 1922...! This mystery was solved when one of the contributors found Harriet Mary in many census records in danishfamilysearch and family search. She lived in Denmark. It appears she married her Norwegian cousin, the marriage being her second, later in life and moved from Denmark to Bergen. Harriet Mary has no children from her second marriage.
The same Norwegian contributor did a search on "Carl Vang", and fortuitously found one Carl Frederik Vang staying in Hotel Nationale in Copenhagen in the Census 1885 records. The same Census revealed Harriet Mary Helland, then aged 17, reunited with her father George Johan Helland and family in Copenhagen. That would be around the time when the father and family returned from Shanghai. Looking at it now, it may be just coincidence. We have no proof that Carl Frederik Vang and George Johan had known each another.
One of my aunties in or around 1980, wrote a 200-page book on the family history, titled "The Wongs". it is published for private use and not in circulation. It was written based on interviews and anecdotes from our relatives and other Eurasian families, conducted by her and another Aunt. I am glad they did! It was a brave and most wonderful effort, as that was done given all European records in Hong Kong were destroyed by the Japanese in their aggression during WWII. Below is the part where they wrote about our gt-gt-grandfather.
Citat
"Wong Kam Fuk's father was a Norwegian (we were told); he must have been born in the early or mid-1800s when Norway was a part of the Kingdom of Sweden (Norway became independent in 1903)... No one seems to know the exact name of this man. We were told it was Von or Van or Vaugh something - Von Carlos, Vingt Carlos, etc. Our family name Wong (so we were told), originated from someone choosing the closest sound to "Von". Who picked the surname Wong? No one seems to know either!
"Reportedly the Grand Old Man came to China as a sea captain and was a pilot sailing between the ports of Shanghai and Port Arthur (now Lushan). Another story had it that he was a honorary consul or a high official with the Norwegian Consulate. However, we are not certain of any of this. It was said he had resided in Harbin and had visited Hongkong frequently. It was said he had four children with a Chinese woman by the name of Ng, from Po On. The oldest child was Wong Kam Fuk... His father called him "Charlie"... When the Grand Old Man went back to his home country he left with the Ng woman Wong Kam Fuk and a daughter, Marie. Presumably he had taken the two young children, either two girls or a girl and a boy, with him. It was said they have blue eyes and fair hair. It was said the Grand Old Man died in Dalian; he had taken the two daughters back to Norway and returned to China"
The writing was creative in parts. BUT, there are some truths in these passages. For example, the Grand Old Man could have come back to China (Shanghai); he could have been a Consul for Norway; he could have been born in Norway; he could have taken two of his children back to Scandinavia. The rest could be creative eg. our family name Wong (so we were told), originated from someone choosing the Closest sound to "Von".
From my research and analysis so far, the two children could be Harriet Mary Helland, and George Douglas Helland. George Douglas was hard to find, as he had not appeared in any Danish Censuses where his father was in the same residence. This perhaps can be explained by George Douglas attending a boarding school.
I now think that it is worth turning the attention to George Johan Helland. The story about the Grand Old Man being a sea captain or pilot plying the seaports of China and visiting Hong Kong frequently, might had been a story to cover up him seeing a Chinese woman outside of the traditional European marriage. Helland was also Honorary Consul for Norway, which fit into the excerpt from the book above. Between 1862 and 1872 he was a Consul for Denmark, and a Consul for Sweden and Norway. It is likely Helland took his children, two of them, back to Denmark in 1871. These children would be born of his first wife, Josephine Isabella Douglas Browne, who died in Hong Kong in 1871. Helland was also a Norwegian, born in Bergen, Norway.
In addition, the fact that Wong Kam Fuk came from a wealthy family, going to an exclusive school, etc, have been left unexplained. Also, Wong Kam Fuk, as was custom for many Eurasians in those days which has to do with being more socially accepted by the Chinese, dropped his European name entirely and adopted a Chinese one. I think the Chinese name can be roughly translated to, partly by sound-like and partly by the Chinese characters, 'bright gold properity'...!
If anyone could help by locating an old photograph of George Johan Helland, that would be great.
Best regards,
Michael
Here's a drawing of G J Helland's father Amund Helland:
http://www.borgerskolen.no/lokalhistorielocal-history/bevegelser-og-fenomener/saernorske-bevegelser/haugianerbevegelsen/h-g-heggtveit-om-haugianerbevegelsen/haugianske-personligheter/kjente-haugianere/vestenfjelds/bergen/amund-helland/
- but cannot find any portraits of Consul G J Helland.
Best regards,
Inger
About G J Helland in Store Nordiske Telegrafselskab:
Board of directors, member 1872 - 75: https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/DetStoreNordiskeTelegrafSelskab-1869-1894/206
Works manager in Shanghai 1876 - 83, chief accountant 1883 -:
https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/DetStoreNordiskeTelegrafSelskab-1869-1894/208
https://user-9y8ca5x.cld.bz/DetStoreNordiskeTelegrafSelskab-1869-1894/280-281
- unfortunately, no photograph.
Best regards,
Inger