Hej :)
Jeg forsøger at hjælpe en amerikaner med at finde fødested og forældre til Jørgen Jensen. Kan han muligvis findes i lægdsrullen? (som jeg endnu ikke har lært at bruge)
En søgning på Hjørring Amt, Vennebjerg H. og Jørgen Jensen giver 5 hits bl.a. disse: https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/search/
Hjørring / Vennebjerg / Uggerby sogn / Folketællinger / 1787 / Opslag Nr. 12
HusstandenJens Chrestensen Mand 46 1741 Gift Husbonde Bonde og GaardBeboer
Kirsten Hansdatter Kvinde 36 1751 Gift Hans kone
Chresten Jensen Mand 8 1779 Ugift Deres barn
Jens Jensen Mand 6 1781 Ugift Deres barn
Niels Jensen Mand 3 1784 Ugift Tjenestefolk Tjenestefolk
Jørgen Jensen Mand 21 1766 Ugift Tjenestefolk Tjenestefolk
Johanne Chrestensdatter Kvinde 22 1765 Ugift Tjenestefolk Tjenestefolk
Hjørring / Vennebjerg / Rubjerg sogn / Folketællinger / 1845 / Opslag Nr. 6
Jens Nielsen Mand 46 1799 Gift Husmand, og slagter Husmand og Slagter
Ane Olesdatter Kvinde 44 1801 Gift Hans kone
Niels Olesen Jensen Mand 15 1830 Ugift Deres barn
Jens Peter Jensen Mand 11 1834 Ugift Deres barn
Ane Cathrine Jensdatter Kvinde 7 1838 Ugift Deres barn
Jørgen Jensen Mand 80 1765 Gift Aftægtsmand
Maren Nielsdatter Kvinde 64 1781 Gift Hans hustru
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/search
Jørgen Jensen dør d. 2. aug. 1848 i Rugbjerg sogn. 82 år gl.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685222
Venligst :)
Karin
Hej Karin
Dine to første links til Danish Family Search viser blot søgebilledet.
Jørgen Jensen, som du viser i FT1845 er født i Tornby
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Rubjerg, Ruberg Bye, Et huus, 3, FT-1845, B5301
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jens Nielsen 46 Gift Huusmand og slagter Heri sognet
Ane Olesdatter 44 Gift Hans kone Stenum sogn Hjørring amt
Niels Olesen Jensen 15 Ugift Deres børn Heri sognet
Jens Peter Jensen 11 Ugift Deres børn Heri sognet
Ane Cathrine Jensdatter 7 Ugift Deres børn Heri sognet
Jørgen Jensen 80 Gift Aftægtsmand Tornby sogn Hjørring amt
Maren Nielsdatter 64 Gift Hans hustru Heri sognet
Hvorfor tror du, at det er den Jørgen Jensen, vi skal have fat i? Hvem er de fire andre, du har fundet?
Hvad er dine søgekriterier til de fem hits?
I lægdsrullerne kan du starte med at forsøge at finde ham i Tornby
Åstrup 1789 Hovedrulle - lægd 12
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032141
men inden du/vi begynder på dette, vil det være en god ide, hvis du oplyste lidt flere data om ham: børn, hvor er de født og ægtefælle/r, så vi har lidt mere konkret at forholde os til. Det er sikkert muligt at finde ham i lægdsrullerne frem til ca 1801, men vi skal vide, hvor han har opholdt sig (ca.)
Uggerby lægd 5 starter her:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032089
Her er Jørgen Jensen i lægdsrullen for Hjørring – Skt. Olai landsogn 1789-1793 3. jy. dist. Sejlstrup a. lægd 15
Hovedrullen 1793 15_140
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057228 højre side nederst
Fader Jens Nielsen, født i Tornby, alder 25.
Hjørring 7.10.1792 vies Jørgen Jensen og Kirsten Sørensdatter
Name Jorgen Jensen
Spouse's Name Kirsten Sorensdr Krag
Event Date 07 Oct 1792
Event Place Sankt Olai,Hjorring,Denmark
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=164083#164083,27548469 - højre side næstsidste par
Jens Nielsen af Tornby er forlover
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Sankt Olai, Schibsbye, , 27, FT-1801, B8401
Navn: Alder: Status: Stilling i familien: Erhverv: Fødested:
Jørgen Jensen 34 Gift Mand Huusmand med Jord
Kirsten Sørensdatter 29 Gift hans Kone
Anne Jørgensdatter 4 Ugift deres Barn
Kirsten Jørgensdatter 2 Ugift deres Barn
HI, I'm not sure if this will post in the right place --- I'm new to this. I am the person Karin Andersen started this thread for. Thank you Karin.
I wanted to post everything I already know about Jørgen Jensen. I have alot, just not his birthdate and am not sure of his mother and which Jens Nielsen is his father.
Jørgen Jensen son of Jens Nielsen born in 1766? In Tornby not sure of wife. I've found at least TWO Jens Nielsen's in the same area one born 1727 and one 1737. Which one is my Jørgen's father?
1766 – birth Tornby – missing pages in Tornby parish records
since he marries in Sankt Olai in 1792 maybe he was in Sankt Olai for his confirmation. I looked through the confirmations in ddd.dda.dk for Sankt Olai and didn't see him there either unless it was one of the names I couldn't read. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548362
1789 Jørgen Jensen his brothers and father in the military roll, 1789 in Tornby parish. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
(I don't understand these rolls or how to follow them. But someone found this page for me that shows: Jens Nielsen is the father of four sons all born in Tornby. Niels is 25, Jorgen is 24, Michel is 22, Peder is 20. The sons are all living in different villages. Jørgen is living in Schibsbye, Sankt Olai)
1792 Jorgen Jensen and Kirsten Sorensdatter Marriage Sankt Olai, Hjorring
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548469
1801 Census Record in Sankt Olai:
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=26737&side=14&height=731 shows him to be 34
1823 1st wife Kirsten Sorensdatter died Nov 21 1823 Rubjerg 51 years old (shows Jørgen Jensen of Sortfelt in Rubjerg) http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=151
1834 Rubjerg Census shows Jorgen Jensen Sort – the name Sort shows up in other records as well. Here he is married to a Maren Nielsdatter with a son Jens Christian Christensen (her son?) shows Jørgen to be 68
1845 Census in Rubjerg
Jørgen Jensen & Maren Nielsdatter
shows Jorgen from Tornby 80 years old 3rd family under Ruberg in Jens Nielsen household http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=7612&side=6
1848 This is a death record I found attached to him on familysearch....I'm not sure it is the right Jørgen Jensen. I assume it is him, because it's in the same town he was living in.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9944-29HM-9?i=127&cc=2078555 #7
CHILDREN:
1793 oct 6 Birth of son Soren Jorgensen in Sankt Olai https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548453
1796 Anne Jorgensdatter Jul 10 Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548455
1798 Kirsten Jorgensdatter Nov 11 Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548457
1801 Soren Jorgensen Mar 18 Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548459
1803 Inger Marie Jorgensdatter Dec 20 1803 Rubjerg POSSIBLE record: beginning very bottom left side http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=44
1807 Johanne Marie Jorgensen Feb 3 Rubjerg
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=48
1810 Jens Christian Jorgensen Feb 9 Rubjerg
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=52
1817 Zidsel Marie Jorgensdatter Oct 4 Rubjerg
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=53
Thanks to everyone willing to share your time in finding any additional information.
Cyndi,
I obviously managed to find the same Jørgen Jensen that you already found on the background of Karin's insufficient information.
Could you please tell us if the person you and I found is your right man?
CitatI've found at least TWO Jens Nielsen's in the same area one born 1727 and one 1737. Which one is my Jørgen's father?
Could you please reveal data that you already found?
Probate Court records might give us clarification of relatives and family. I was not able to find any records of Jens Nielsen, Tornby
I looked into the Tornby church books and found:
1770 Tornby Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter son Peder https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=170601#170601,28645091 no. 9 left hand side first entry
1773 May 7, Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Knudsdatter daughter Anne
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=170601#170601,28645093 right side - almost at the bottom
Peder might be the brother listed in the Military Levying Rolls.
Find any available data of Jens Nielsen's sons listed in the Rolls.
To be investigated:
Name Jens Nielsen
Event Type Probate
Event Date 10 Jul 1772
Event Place Hjørring, Denmark
Event Place (Original) , Hjørring, Denmark
Residence Place Synderby Jetsmark
Spouse's Name Inger Nielsdatter
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99FX-XFKM?i=290&cc=2026233
Name Jens Nielsen
Spouse's Name Inger Nielsdr
Event Date 27 Sep 1765
Event Place Tornby,Hjorring,Denmark
Hi :)
I see we can write in English.
Thanks for your info Britta and sorry for my "insufficient" informations.
However I thought I knew, you only had to know the whereabouts of a person in a certain year, in order to find him in the Lægdsrulle. Correct me if I am wrong.
I know Ken has quite a lot of info, but as it is on a Facebook forum, it is kind of hard to get an overview or to copy bits and pieces from here and there, so I was only looking for the Lægdsrulle info.
Sorry about the link to familysearch.dk. I realized it was not working, that´s why I wrote exactly what I searched for - but I didn´t get around to erase the link.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
I am thrill with the extra info already found. Thank you Karin So much for helping me and guiding me to this wonderful forum.
Thank you Britta for helping me.
the two Jens Nielsen's I've found to be in the area my family is from and within the right age window are:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid162295
Sankt Olai 1737
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid168108
Tornby 1727
Finding the son, Peder, is huge! I feel like he is the one!
the military rolls that Shari Duce, on facebook, found shows 4 sons all born in Tornby. We have been at a loss because I've been looking for birth records for those sons between 1766 and 1769 and those parish records seem to be missing. the 1770 very likely fits....depending on the date on the Military roll I guess.
Shari usually can follow the young men throughout the rolls but she has been unable to find them on any other roll but this one:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 right side 4 brothers - Jens Nielsen is the father of four sons all born in Tornby. Niels is 25, Jorgen is 24, Michel is 22, Peder is 20. The sons are all living in different villages.
We have also been unable to figure out what villages each of the brother's were in at the time of this roll. If I knew that, I may be able to look for Jens Nielsen's death in each of those places since I couldn't find him in Tornby.
Also, with this probate you found we know that Inger died in 1772. Would July 10th be the death date or just a date they started probate after the death and how long after did they usually wait to begin probate?
If she died in 1772 then Jens likely remarried. Could we assume that he remarried Kirsten Knudsdatter:
although I think that this census might say this was their first marriage. https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid168108
Just found the marriage of Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Knudsdatter in 1758https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=170601#170601,28645152 so the Jens in this record couldn't be the Jens whose spouse, Inger, died in 1765. TWO different Jens.
this Kirsten is the one listed on familysearch-familytree as the mother of Jørgen but there is no evidence. I'm leaning towards the Inger you found as being his mother if we can find some other evidence of her and the other 3 boys.
in your post you also have this event:
Is this info in the probate record? Is this their marriage? which if it is, would be perfect timing for the birth of a son sometime in 1766, Jørgen. I clicked the link and see that it is an index to a probate. Is there a way to see the full record of the probate? does it tell in the probate anything about children or how old her husband is? Sorry, lots of questions.
Thanks so much for your help. Feeling hopeful, Cyndi
Name Jens Nielsen
Spouse's Name Inger Nielsdr
Event Date 27 Sep 1765
Event Place Tornby, Hjorring, Denmark
I guess I shouldn't get too excited and just assume this Inger is the mother I've been looking for.
I guess it is possible that the Jens Nielsen who married Kirstin Knudsdatter could still be the couple with the four sons on the military rolls.
for Inger we've only found one son's record, Peder.
Here is kirstin's death record. I don't know how to find the probates but maybe you can help me with that and see if probate shows anything for her. https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902248 Nov 14 1814
thanks so much
Is that probate record a record of Jens death or Inger's?
Hi :)
I have been looking into betrothals in Tornby sogn and found these.
Tornby sogn. 1751. Fredagen d. 29. oct. ? ? Jens Nielsen af Hiøring og Maren Hansdatter af Rosedrup? trolovet. Forloveren fæstemandens fader Niels Hatmagers af Hiøring og fæstemøens farbroder Anders Christensen af Lystrup.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645132
Tornby sogn. 1758. Dom 8. p. Trinit. Begr. Jens Nielsens hustru Karen Hansdatter af byen. 25 år? 5 mdr.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645104
Tornby sogn. 1758. Fredagen d. 6. oct. blev Jens Nielsen Lohman og Kirsten Knudsdatter af Byen trolovet. Forlover Niels Louhman af Kiøbsted og Niels Kielsen af Byen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645134
Tornby sogn. 1759. Fredagen d. 19. oct. blev Jens Nielsen Plet her af Byen og Kirsten Pedersdatter af Kiøbsted trolovet. Forlovere var Laurs Plet af Kiøbsted og Anders Poulsen af Nørbye.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645134
Tornby sogn. Tiirsdagen d. 19. Feb. blev Jens Nielsen og Inger Nielsdatter trolovede. Forlovere var Peder Jespersen og Christen Krag.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645136
Tornby sogn. 1777. Dom 1 Adventus blev Jens Nielsen af Horne sogn og Enkekone Maren Olufsdatter trolovede. Forlover Michel Sørensen af Horne Sogn og Oluf Mouridsen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645139
It is a little early, but I would be a little excited about the betrothal between Jens Nielsen og Inger Nielsdatter. Jørgen do name a daughter Inger (Marie) and the name Krag is mentioned.
We need to look at the witnesses mentioned at the baptizems.
Kind Regard
Karin
The probate is for Jens Nielsen.
Cindi are you aware you kan ask to "Abonnér" on this topic. Go to the top of this side. Abowe my first question is a brown beam where you can press Abonnér. If you want to, you can get an e-mail telling you we have gotten an answer to this topic - even if it comes years from now.
Thank you. You are so kind to share your time and help me.
I subscribed - Thank you. I think I check this more than my email. ;)
I will look at these marriages and look at witnesses at the baptisms of Jørgen's children. That is one reason I was really doubting Kirsten as the mother....she never appears as a witness but Jens Nielsen does.
I don't think the probate record could be my Jens Nielsen... Jetsmark is such a long ways away from where my family is known to be. Tornby, Rubjerg, Skt. Olai
I am assuming that it is a marriage record that Britta posted above with the Probate record.
if it is then they were betrothed Feb 19th and married Sept 27. I am excited about this one since the birth of a Peder was found in Tornby
with the parents Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter born in 1770 which (hopefully) is one of the four sons listed in the Military roll.
Thank you both so much for helping,
Cyndi
Probate records from Vendsyssel - source krabsen.dk
Godsskifter fra Vendsyssel
Kjærsgård in Tornby Parish
http://www.krabsen.dk/godsskifte/container.php?funktion=gods_pr_gods&godsnr=G016
I found the record from Rødslet Gods / Rødslet Estate - Vadum Parish via the source krabsen.dk
http://www.krabsen.dk/godsskifte/container.php?funktion=gods_seeknavn
RØDSLET i Vadum sogn
Jens Nielsen
Synderbye, Jetsmark
10 07 1772
pages 1100-1103
g.m. Inger Nielsdt
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=195607#195607,32745017
This is not your Jens Nielsen
a couple of children are mentioned 1 years old, 10 years old ......
I don't see anything in the witnesses that match anything in any of the Betrothals.
The Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter fits with a Peder Jensen whose birth we found in 1770 listing Jens and Inger as parents (one of 4 brother's in the military rolls) and there is a Peder "Sort" as a witness for one of Jørgen's children so I'm kind of thinking he is Peder Nielson Sort. And my Jørgen has "Sort" after his name in some records so – brothers?
"Krag" is another interesting name....first I found it after Jørgen's Wife's name in their marriage record. But then in their Daughter, Anne Jorgensdatter's birth record it shows
Jørgen Jensen Krag – the Krag after HIS name instead of hers. ??
Jens Nielsen's son, Jørgen's marriage and children's records:
I'm listing just the witnesses so we can see if there is a connection with any of the betrothals you found.
All translations copied below made possibly by wonderful people on the Danish facebook page.
1792 MARRIAGE: Jorgen Jensen (there's no SORT after his name in this record) and Kirsten Sorensdatter (has Krag after her name) Sankt Olai, Hjorring, Denmark
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548469
Forloverne:
Hans Mikkelsen af Schibsbye
Jens Nielsen af Tornbye
BIRTHS:
1793 Soren Jorgensen - Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548453
Q: F: Ellen, Lars Mikkelsen's Daughter in Schibye
Mette Christensd :, Jens Frostes Stifd. ibid (Stifd. = Place daughter = Stepdaughter)
M: F: Jens Christensen Post? ibidm
Jens Nielsen in Schibsbye
Peiter Mikkelsen,
Jens Frost
1796 Anne Jorgensdatter - Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548455
Female witnesses:
Bodil Christensen wife of Hans Michelsen.
Christen Lassens daughter Helvig both from Schibsb(ye).
Male witnesses: Jens Nielsen fra Schibsbye,
Jørgen Sørensen ibidm (ibidem = from the same place).
Niels Christensen working for Christen Lassen.
1798 Kirsten Jorgensdatter - Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548457
Female witnesses,
Ane Larsdatter, wife of a tailor,
and Kirsten Larsdatter
Male witnesses
Jens Nielsen of Hjørring,
Hans Mikkelsen of skibsby, and
Søren Larsen
1801 Soren Jorgensen - Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548459
female witnesses:
Anne Jensdatter Hans Mickelsens h (hustru = wife) i Skibsbye,
Maren Jensdatter? ibi (=ibidem = same place)
Male witnesses:
Jens Nielsen ib.,
Søren Larsen (probably same as previous (Annes Baptizm) person Søren Lassen) og
Lars Christensen ib.
1803 Inger Marie Jorgensdatter - Rubjerg (Don't see SORT in this record)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=44
Witnesses:
Christens bror
Peder Sort,
Jens Thomsen.
Niels Stephansens wife Johanne,
____ Jensdatter.
1807 Johanne Marie Jorgensen - Rubjerg (Don't see SORT in this record)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=48
Qdf.: Kirsten Alstrup,
Anne Jensdatter,
Peder Sort,
Niels Steffensen,
Jacob Møller fra Præstegaarden
1810 Jens Christian Jorgensen - Rubjerg (SORT shows up in this record)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=52
fadrene
Anders Laursen?, Peder __ Kone
Niels ____søn og Syster til barnet What sister????
og Anders Møller
1817 Zidsel Marie Jorgensdatter - Rubjerg (SORT is in this record)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=53
Anne Jorgensdatter, ?? Ellen Laursdatter?, Jorgen Jensen Sort, Jens Christensen, ??? ????
Here is Kirsten Knudsdatter's death....how do you find a probate and would it have info to rule yea or nay for her as the mother?
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902248
I think these records do rule out the probate found for Jens Nielsen in 1772. That one can't be my Jens Nielsen as he was witness at the baptism of a grandchild in 1801. Maybe this is an indication that he died sometime between 1801 and the next child in 1807.
Hi :)
Just found this and noted the place Brønderup. Somewhere we had a hard time figuring a placename out. It looked like a Brynderup and I suggested it could be Grynderup, but obviously it is this place Brønderup.
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Sankt Olai, Brønderup, , 10, FT-1787, A7011
Christen Christensen 33 gift Hosbonde
Birgitte Andersd. 30 gift hans Kone
Bodil Christensd 3 Børn af sidste Egteskab
Maren Christensd 1 Børn af sidste Egteskab
Peder Mikkelsen 34 ugivte Tieneste Karl
Johanne Larsdatter 19 ugivte Tieneste Pige
Jørgen Jensen 15 ugivte Hyrder
Ane Jensdatter 10 Hyrder
Look at the names here. I think several of them are witnesses at the baptism of Jørgens children.
No, I don´t think the probate from Jetsmark is your Jens Nielsens.
If I looked at this betrothal:
Hjørring A, Tornby sogn. 1739FVKD - 1798FVKD. Opsl. 50.
1765. Tiirsdagen d. 19. Feb. blev Jens Nielsen og Inger Nielsdatter trolovede. Forlovere var Peder Jespersen (død 28. okt. 1787) og Christen Krag.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645136
and try to figure out who these people are:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Tornby, Nørre Tornbye, , 29, FT-1801, B8404
Jens Nielsen 63 Gift Manden Jordløs Huusmand, og nyder begge Almisse
Inger Nielsdatter 60 Gift Hands Kone saa nyder begge Almisse
It must be the same couple, if yours it is odd Inger Nielsdatter never is a witness to the baptisms.
The best mens for the betrothals must be these two:
Peder Jespersen married to a Svendsdatter.
Hjørring A., Tornby sogn. 1739FKVD-1798FKVD. Opsl. 7.
1773. Maren døbt, Peder Jespersen og Marike Svendsdatters.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645093
Christen Krag, here with a possible father:
Hjørring A., Tornby sogn. 1739FKVD-1798FKVD. Opsl. 29.
1772. Dom 5. p. Trinit. d. 19. juli. Christen Krag begravet 36 år gl.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645115
Hjørring A., Tornby sogn. 1739FKVD-1798FKVD. Opsl. 39.
1789. 7. juni. Begr. Jens Christensen Krag. 62 Aar.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645125
Kind regards :)
Karin
Britta,
thank you for that cool new tool....looking up probates. I'm going to add that to my bookmarks.
I looked up Inger Nielsdatter since I can't see anything for Jens Nielsen
I'm interested in the top one in this search but don't know what to do next. will you teach me?
http://www.krabsen.dk/godsskifte/container.php?funktion=gods_seeknavn_vis
Hi again :)
The name Sort, the family might have gotten in Rubjerg. They are probably named after the place they lived called Sortfeldt. When moving this name might or might not follow them around.
I have some corrections to one of the baptisms
Jørgen Jensens børns dåb:
Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 81.
Oct. d. 6de. Jørgen Jensen og hustru Kirsten Sørensdatter Schibsbye. Søren hjemmedøbt d. 17 Nov. præsenteret for Daaben. Q. F.: Ellen Lars Mikkelsens datter i Schibsb. Mette Christensdatter Jens Frostes stifd. ibid. M. F: Jens Christensen Post? ibidm, Jens Nielsen i Schibsbye, Peiter Mikkelsen, Jens Frost. Introd. d. 17. Nov.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548453
Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 83.
1796. July 10th. Jørgen Jensen Krag in Schibsbye (now = Skibsby) and Kirsten Sørensdatter - Baptized at home Anne at church August 7th. Female witnesses: Bodil Christensen wife of Hans Michelsen. Christen Lassens daughter Helvig both from Schibsb(ye). Male witnesses: Jens Nielsen fra Schibsbye, Jørgen Sørensen ibidm (ibidem = from the same place). Niels Christensen working for Christen Lassen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548455
Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 85.
1798. Nov. 11. Jørgen Jensen og hustru Kirsten Sørensdatter Schibsbye. Hiemmedøbt Kirsten confir. d. 9de. Dec. Q. fadd: Ane Larsdatter Christen Skrædders kone og Kirsten Larsdatter. M:fadd: Jens Nielsen af Hiøring, Hans Mikkelsen Skibsbye og Søren Larsen. Introduceret d. 9de December.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548457
Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 87.
1800. Martii 18de. Jørgen Jensen og H? (wife) Kirsten Sørensdatter af Skibsbye. - Baptized at churck Søren - Qvi (Qvinde = old word for kvinde = female) witnesses: Anne Jensdatter Hans Mickelsens h (hustru = wife) i Skibsbye, Maren Jensdatter? ibi (=ibidem = same place) Male witnesses: Jens Nielsen ib., Søren Larsen (probably same as previous (Annes Baptizm) person Søren Lassen) og Lars Christensen ib.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548459
(Corrections to the one on Facebook)
Hjørring A., Rubjerg sogn 1775-1803. Opsl. 44.
1803. Dec. 20th or 28th. Jørgen Jensen og hustru Kirsten Sørensdatter gave birth to a female child, Baptized at home on 22th ditto ( = same month = December) kaldet Inger Marii was at church 1804 January 15th. Witnesses was: Christens Broe, Peder Sort, Jens Thomsen. Niels Stephansens wife Johanne og Anne Jensdatter. Mother introduces Feb. 5th.
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=44
Hjørring A., Rubjerg sogn 1775-1803. Opsl. 48.
1807. Feb. 3th. Jørgen Jensen og hustrue Kirsten Sørensdatter 1 Datter fød (=født = born) og døbt d. 8de. kaldet Johanne Marie. Qdf.: Kirsten Alstrup, Anne Jensdatter, Peder Sort, Niels Steffensen, Jacob Møller fra Præstegaarden (from the rectory)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=48
Hjørring A., Rubjerg sogn 1775-1803. Opsl. 52.
1810. d. 9 or 11. Februari fød Jørgen Jensen Sort og hustru Kirsten Sørens 1 Søn som blev hiemedøbt d. 11 ditto
The next is kind of messy
kaldet Jens Christian. Faddere-Ind. den ? April -
Anders Thomsen, Peder Sorts kone, Niels Stehphensen og syster (=Søster=sister) til (barnet) og Anders Møller.
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=52
The sister will be one of her older sisters.
Hjørring A., Rubjerg sogn 1814-1843. Opsl. 53.
1817. d. 4. oct. Zidsel Marie Jørgensdatter, Jørgen Jensen Sort og hst. Kirsten Sørensdatter Boelsfolk på Sortfeldt i Ruberg, hiemmedøbt d. 5. oct. 1817, i kirken d. 16. Nov. Moderen introduceret d. ?. Faddere: Pige Anne Jørgensdatter barnets søster, Pige Ellen Laursdatter af Ruberg, Peder Jensen Sort barnets farbroder, Lars Hmd. (smallholder) i Ruberg og Ungkarl Jens Christensen af Ruberg __gaard. Fol 225 No. 46
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=53
Søg efter navn (search for name)
http://www.krabsen.dk/godsskifte/container.php?funktion=gods_seeknavn
Se alle navne for et gods (see a list of names for each estate)
http://www.krabsen.dk/godsskifte/container.php?funktion=gods_oversigt
Britta,
I see that my link did not work.
and I don't see a way to upload the screen shot I took.
I will attempt to write what I saw after my search and see if you can direct me from there.
KJAERSGAARD i Tornby sogn Inger Nielsdatter Kjøbsted, Tornby 14 03 1792 2 323 g.m. Jens Ibsen (is Ibsen a name or typo? I hadn't seen that one yet)
Karin,
You have really gone to a lot of work. MUCH THANKS.
I have a lot to try and wrap my head around.
I guess it's possible that my Jørgen was born in 1772 instead of 1766. I'll have to look at all the records I found that showed 1766 or 1765.
maybe if we can find the birth record of the one in 1772 would help. I guess that census where you found Jørgen at 15 probably doesn't tell us where he was born does it?
If the military rolls we have are correct for my Jorgen then it would need to be the 1765 Jørgen
thanks for giving me so much to think about.
Karin,
I've been looking over some of what you have posted....I have not gotten through it all yet. It amazes me how fast some are able to find so much. I'm so grateful.
I do have some thoughts on what I have looked at.
1. the Jørgen Jensen in the 1787 Census was 15. Must have been born in 1772. I've been following a Jørgen Jensen born in 1765-66.
I think I need help finding BOTH Jørgen Jensen's and following them a bit to prove there are two of them.
2. I sure am leaning towards Inger being the mother. Why was she not at the baptisms? Maybe she died before 1793 when first grandchild (with Jørgen) was born. I wish we could find another one of the boys from the military rolls to connect her.
There is a probate record for an Inger Nielsen who died about 1792 but it says husband was Jens ibsens.... I found the death record but it is so hard to read I can't help but wonder if it is Nielsen. Especially where the death is Kjøbsted, Tornby a place I've seen other records for.
I don't know how to get to the actual Probate record to read it.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../source25.../opslag5055361 under 1792 #4
I wish I could find the deaths of both Jens.
3. The census you found in Brønderup is interesting. Would his parents have died before 1787 the reason he is with another family at such an early age? Is Ane his sister? That's awfully early not to be with her family...age 10. I sure with the birth records were available at that time.
Thank you again for being so willing to help. I can't thank everyone enough!!!
Cyndi
Probate record - Inger Nielsdatter Kjøbsted, Tornby 14 03 1792 2 323
Kærsgård Gods, Skifteprotokol
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=194281#194281,32553123 right from the top
Her husband was Jens Ibsen [Jepsen/Jeppesen]
I am able to read some of her children: Niels Pedersen, Johanne Pedersdatter, Anna Pedersdatter
Hi Cindi :)
About age in censuses. The censuses was made to count people, not necessarily to give correct informations. However they often do, ages though is not always correct - by far.
About probates. A probate would only be made, if the deceased left something of value.
If your Jens Nielsen is the one I think he is:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Tornby, Nørre Tornbye, , 29, FT-1801, B8404
Jens Nielsen 63 Gift Manden Jordløs Huusmand, og nyder begge Almisse
Inger Nielsdatter 60 Gift Hands Kone saa nyder begge Almisse
they are both on welfare (Almisse). "Jordløs" means without land. So these two would have been quite poor.
In regard to Jørgen, you are kind of lucke, but also kind of unlucky.
You are lucky because of his name Jørgen. It is not the most common name.
You are unlucky because there is missing pages and quite a gap between to two churchbooks.
You asked about Jørgen in this census from Brønderup.
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Sankt Olai, Brønderup, , 10, FT-1787, A7011
Christen Christensen 33 gift Hosbonde
Birgitte Andersd. 30 gift hans Kone
Bodil Christensd 3 Børn af sidste Egteskab
Maren Christensd 1 Børn af sidste Egteskab
Peder Mikkelsen 34 ugivte Tieneste Karl
Johanne Larsdatter 19 ugivte Tieneste Pige
Jørgen Jensen 15 ugivte Hyrder
Ane Jensdatter 10 Hyrder
It was not unusual children would go an live and/or work somewhere else in a very young age. If Jens (if he is yours) always have lived on a "farm" without land, he would have had a really hard time providing for his children.
It is od Jørgens mother, as far as we know, is not a wittness to any of the baptisms. Some og the children is baptised in Rubjerg, quite a distance away from Skibsby and distance alone might be the reason.
https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Brønderup,+9800+Hjørring/@57.4523014,10.019215,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4648cdf802fef40d:0xece77792c736fddd!8m2!3d57.4289011!4d10.0048384
Kind regards
Karin
Ups. https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Brønderup,+9800+Hjørring/@57.4523014,10.019215,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4648cdf802fef40d:0xece77792c736fddd!8m2!3d57.4289011!4d10.0048384 (https://www.google.dk/maps/place/Br%C3%B8nderup,+9800+Hj%C3%B8rring/@57.4523014,10.019215,13z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4648cdf802fef40d:0xece77792c736fddd!8m2!3d57.4289011!4d10.0048384)
Oops I should have listed the two Jens I need to find out more about. I guess I did say in my previous post, I need to prove there are two....but I think this info already does that and we just need to untangle the families.
Jens Nielsen married to Kirsten Knudsdatter is who my Jorgen and other children are currently connected to in Familytree but I feel a little uneasy about it. Maybe simply for lack of sources.
In light of the military roll listing 4 sons of Jens Nielsen and finding one of those sons in the correct time frame with parents Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsen indicates a second Jens Nielsen we need to find.
This kind of makes me think Inger is my relative....however, we all know there could be many Peder's and both sets of parents could have had a Peder.
So my hope is to find information on both and show a distinction between them.
I'm just going to throw some questions out to think about....
Thanks for letting me talk this through with you. Maybe something said between us will spark a thought somewhere ;)
- I realize the dates could be wrong in the censuses but by 6 years or more?
- it may have been quite a distance to the baptisms of Jorgen's children the reason Inger wouldn't be there but would Jorgen's father go without her? He seemed to be at the first few. I guess that blows my thoughts about both parents dying early.
- children would go live somewhere else as early as 10?
- One thing to keep in mind is that several of Jorgen's children were born in Sankt Olai then in Rubjerg
- Maybe we need to revisit the 1845 Census which is where I came up with Tornby being Jorgen's birth place. Maybe I've gone off in totally the wrong direction.
I feel quite confident in what we know about the children of Jorgen Jensen and Kirsten Sorensdatter but going up through the parents it's a bit confusing.
Will you look at this and see if I'm even looking at the right Jørgen?
I just assumed this was my Jorgen, because he's in Rubjerg where his last few children were born, but could be way off base.
Census Year 1845 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5324229
Name Jørgen Jensen
Age 80
County Hjørring Hundred Vennebjerg Parish Rubjerg Placename Ruberg Bye
Born date 1765 Born Place Tornby sogn Hjørring amt
Rec. no. Name Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
18 Jens Nielsen Male 46 1799 Married Husmand, og slagter Husmand og Slagter
19 Ane Olesdatter Female 44 1801 Married Hans kone
20 Niels Olesen Jensen Male 15 1830 Single Deres barn
21 Jens Peter Jensen Male 11 1834 Single Deres barn
22 Ane Cathrine Jensdatter Female 7 1838 Single Deres barn
23 Jørgen Jensen Male 80 1765 Married Aftægtsmand if him, also evidence of his second wife Maren
24 Maren Nielsdatter Female 64 1781 Married Hans hustru
Then here are some censuses I've found for Jens Nielsen...
FIRST FAMILY - The original one in Familysearch/familytree:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid168108
Census Year 1787
Name Jens Nielsen Age 60
County Hjørring Hundred Vennebjerg Parish Tornby Placename Kiøbsted Bye
Born date 1727 Born Place
No of Marriages 1
Business Bonde Huusmand og Fisker
Rec. no. Name Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
443 Jens Nielsen Male 60 1727 Married Mand Bonde Huusmand og Fisker
444 Kirsten Knudsdatter Female 50 1737 Married Hans kone
445 Anne Jensdatter Female 12 1775 Single Deres datter
446 Kirsten Jensdatter Female 26 1761 Married opholdende lever af sine Hænders
Geerninger??
447 Hans Andersen Male 1 1786 Single Hendes Børn
448 Karen AndersDatter Female 4 1783 Single Hendes Børn
Second possibility - Jens Nielsen & inger Nielsdatter
only 1 marriage - I wonder where their 1787 Census is????
1801 Tornby
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557290
379 Jens Nielsen Male 63 1738 Married Manden Jordløs Huusmand, og nyder begge Almisse
380 Inger Nielsdatter Female 60 1741 Married Hans kone saa nyder begge Almisse
Yes Jorgen named a child "Inger" but he also named a child "Kirsten"
Here is even another Jens Nielsen in the same area same time period.....
Another possibility because this is a SECOND marriage in Scisbye.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1550957
Census Year 1801 Jens Nielsen Age 64 Born date 1737
County Hjørring Hundred Vennebjerg Parish Sankt Olai Placename Schibsbye
No of Marriages 2
Business Ligeledes [Huusmand med Jord]
Household
Rec. no. Name Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
355 Jens Nielsen Male 64 1737 Married Mand Ligeledes [Huusmand med Jord]
356 Kirsten Michelsdatter Female 66 1735 Married Hans kone
357 Mette Nielsdatter Female 70 1731 Widow Enke Inderste
by the way, I hope I'm understanding everything you write....for some reason most everything seems to be translated to English but some sentences are in Danish. I notice even some of my sentences I write, once posted, end up in Danish.
thanks for everything,
Cyndi
oh, and here is a death record I haven't been able to get translated on facebook. I'm wondering if it is Peder, the brother of Jørgen.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../churchl.../opslag14902243 Peder Jensen Record #25 Sept 1817
Cyndi and Karin,
CitatWill you look at this and see if I'm even looking at the right Jørgen?
Jørgen Jensen born in Tornby Parish, father Jens Nielsen is your Jørgen,
no doubt about this issue.
Please follow him in the Military Levying Rolls:
12_189 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 listed in Tornby + his brothers
Hovedrulle Hjørring 1795 28_140/106 (lægd 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485
Hovedrulle 1798 28_106/84 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059940
Going to 17_K97 [lægd 17 = Rubjerg in 1802]
17_K98 His son Søren Jørgensen born on March 18, 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18300,1061643
Hovedrulle 1803_17_97/68 Jørgen Jensen
1803_17_98/69 his son Søren Jørgensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061898
Thank you Britta
I have a friend that found one of the rolls but then couldn't follow them. She usually can follow them for years.
That first one you listed above is the one she found.
I do not understand these records at all.....I would like to learn.
the one you listed as
Citatbrother's main roll Hjørring 1795 28_140 / 106 ( lowered 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485
who is the brother. I'm terrible at this, I can't even read the name. :o
I wish these rolls followed the father as well. and with the missing parish records what is the next best source to prove who mother is? (besides the census which I also can't find)
from what I can tell, this is my family especially if you tied the son Søren, to the Jørgen I've been following. Thank you for finding these.
Ok, after spending some considerable time studying what you have posted and other things I've found I'm feeling really good about Inger being the mother of Jørgen.
Do you think I have enough evidence to replace Kirsten Knudsdatter on familysearch/family tree with Inger Nielsen? https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LCVG-4ZR
I think maybe Kirsten knudsdatter belongs to a Jens Nielson Londsmon.... Shari Duce who's been helping me and I think Karin, both found the same Anne as a daughter to Jens Nielsen Londsmon and Kirsten Knudsdatter. (maybe Londsmon is added to separate the two Jens Nielsen's)
If I remove Kirsten Knudsdatter, I'll need to move two of the children with her. There is no evidence that Kirsten Jensdatter or the 2nd Niels listed are my Jens' children.
- Kirsten was born before Jens and Inger were married in 1765. (Jens and Kirsten were married in 1758 so it should work for them.)
- the Niels born in 1773 would not be mine because the Niels born to my Jens was still alive according to the Military roll.
I would guess that Inger and Jens may have had some daughters but I can't find them.
Here are my thoughts:
I do wish I could find a death date for Inger and/or Jens.
I can't help but think she must have died before the birth of her grandchildren since she is never in attendance. Grandpa Jens Nielsen was present to all of Jørgen's children's baptisms that happened in Sankt Olai.
After 1801 Jens Nielsen either died or it was too far for him to travel to Rubjerg where the next 4 of Jørgen's children were born. He was not in attendance for any of those. I cannot find a death record for him.
Peder Jensen Sort – Jørgen's brother was in attendance to 3 of the children's baptisms in Rubjerg (not to any in Sankt Olai)
We don't have a birth record for Jørgen, we do have one for his brother Peder. And the birth dates for Jørgen (estimated from census records) and Peder (from birth record) match up with the military roll.
the Military roll show 4 brothers but we don't have a birth record for, Niels or Michel. HOWEVER
I am now questioning the mother of Jørgen's wife, Kirsten Sorensdatter, as well.
Kirsten Sorensdatter's birth record is hard to read. Someone translated for me: Kirsten Mortensdatter as the mother. Could you look at the record? is it possible it could be Michelsdatter?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548339
Kirsten 1st page.
That may be why one of Jørgen's sons was named Michel. I found some other children born to Soren Christensen and Kirsten Michelsdatter and found a census with a Soren Christensen and Kirsten Michelsdatter but not one with Mortensdatter.
(the census: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid162312)
Jørgen seemed to have used the naming pattern somewhat:
1st Son, Soren, named after Paternal Grandfather, Soren Christensen
1st daughter, Ann – this one is confusing – was there maybe a sister to either Jørgen or his wife that they named this child after? I wonder if the 10 year old Ann in the 1787 census Karin found was Jørgen's sister and what happened to her. I also wonder if Kirsten Sorensdatter had a sister ann. and if either of them died before this daughter was born. I can't read this well enough to know.
Can you read this birth record of an Anna, father Soren Krag? https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548342
the naming went back to following the tradition after this.
2nd daughter, Kirsten, named after maternal grandmother, Kirsten Sorensdatter
2nd son, Soren, named after 1st son who died.
3rd daughter, Inger Marie, named after paternal grandmother, Inger Nielsdatter
3rd son, Jens Christian, named after paternal grandfather, Jens Nielsen
4th daughter, Zidsel, no clue who she's named after.
Could someone translate these records for me? Possible sisters to Grandma Kirsten Sorensdatter.
1757 Maren – mother Kirsten Michelsdatter from Skisbye
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548331
1769 Johanna
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548337
parents Soren Christensen and Kirsten Mickelsdatter?
1777 ANNA Father Soren Krag....
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548342
1776 is skisbye there was A Helvig who was witness at Jorgen's children's baptisms.... https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548341
What is this page telling us about Jens Nielsen? Sankt Olai
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548477
Thanks again to all for your help. It is very much appreciated.
Any thoughts you can share on this will be greatly appreciated.
Much thanks,
Cyndi
CitatI think maybe Kirsten Knudsdatter belongs to a Jens Nielson Londsmon
CitatTornby sogn. 1758. Fredagen d. 6. oct. blev Jens Nielsen Lohman og Kirsten Knudsdatter af Byen trolovet. Forlover Niels Louhman af Kiøbsted og Niels Kielsen af Byen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645134
the names are: Jens Nielsen Lønsman and Niels LønsmanI don't see/did not find any connection between Kirsten Knudsdatter and Niels, Jørgen, Michel and Peder.
Inger Nielsdatter is the only person who fits: time of marriage, childrens' birth from the Military Rolls and mother of Peder in the church book. However, you will not be able to get a 100% confirmation. There are no records in church books, probate records etc. ....
- - - -
Citatoh, and here is a death record I haven't been able to get translated on facebook. I'm wondering if it is Peder, the brother of Jørgen.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../churchl.../opslag14902243 Peder Jensen Record #25 Sept 1817
Where did you find this record?
Søren Christensen af Brønderup and Kirsten Mickelsdatter 25. Juli 1766
Hjørring Parish
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=164082#164082,27548292 in the middle of the right page
copulered [married] 17. October
I did not find any Kirsten Mogensen
Søren Christensen Kragh, Skibsby probate 19 05 1792 page 317
http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt
Original source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357605 right side at the bottom
19.05.1792 Søren Christensen Kragh, Husfæster i Skibsby Fol. 317
Kiersten Michelsdatter
Arvinger: Enken
Børn:
Maren Sørensdatter, g.m. Niels Pedersen i Træholt huus i Bjergby S.
Kiersten Sørensdatter, g.m. Jørgen Jensen, Husfæster Skibsby
20.05.1801 Kiersten Michelsdatter i Skibsby Fol. 27
Jens Nielsen, hendes 2. ægteskab [marriage]
Arvinger: Enkemanden
Børn af 1. ægteskab: children in 1. marriage
Maren Sørensdatter, g.m. Husmand Niels Kok i Trædholt i Bjergby
Kiersten Sørensdatter, g.m. Jørgen Kragh i Skibsby
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685 right side no 12
I found the death record for Peder at danishfamilysearch.com in Tornby
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902243
Peder Jensen Record #25 Sept 1817
but I realized this can't be the Peder in my family because he was present at the baptism Oct 4 1817 of Jørgen's last child.
I think I need to look for him closer to Rubjerg. He wasn't listed as present at the baptisms in Sankt Olai. He didn't show up in the witnesses until the baptisms at Rubjerg.
Deleted duplicate message....I thought previous one didn't show up but instead found we have gone to a second page
Oh Britta,
this is wonderful -- the info on Soren's family and all the previous info
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
And thanks to everyone. Bless you all for your willingness to give of your time for those of us who can't read these records. I'm so grateful!
CitatSøren Christensen Kragh , Shipyards probate 19 05 1792 page 317
http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt
Original source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid = 193002 # 193002,32357605 right side at the bottom
19.05.1792 Søren Christensen Kragh, Housekeeper in Skibsby Fol. 317
Kiersten Michelsdatter
Arvinger: Widow
Children:
Maren Sørensdatter, gm Niels Pedersen in Træholt huus in Bjergby S.
Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Jensen, Housekeepers Skibsby
20.05.1801 Kiersten Michelsdatter in Skibsby Fol. 27
Jens Nielsen, her 2nd marriage [marriage]
Heirs: The widow
Children of 1. marriage: children in 1. marriage
Maren Sørensdatter, gm Husmann Niels Kok in Trædholt in Bjergby
Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Kragh in Skibsby
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser? bsid = 193003 # 193003,32357685 right side no 12
I noticed something here that confuses me.
Is there some tradition I haven't learned about yet with names?
Why in Kiersten's probate are the son in law's names different?
Instead of Niels Pedersen we have Niels Kok and
Instead of Jørgen Jensen we have Jørgen Kragh
one thing just leads to more and more questions.
along with my questions in the post just before this one I have more questions for those who understand the Danish and their customs.
Now that we've learned that Jørgen Jensen's wife's mother, Kirsten Michelsdatter, remarried a "Jens Nielsen" of all people, which Jens was at all of Jørgen's children's baptisms?
Now we have
Jørgen's father, Jens Nielsen and
Kirsten Sorensdatter's Step father, Jens Nielsen
The first 2 children "Jens Nielsen of Skisbsbye" attended
The 3rd child "Jens Nielsen of Hjøring" attended
The 4th child "Jens Nielsen" attended
I guess there is no way of knowing. At least until I find a death record for Jens.
I also find it interesting that neither of the grandmother's are ever in attendance. Why would that be?
uh oh....
now that I've been moving some things on family search I just realized something.
according to the dates on the military rolls I may still have the wrong family :(
the daughter Kirsten was previously attached to familytree but I don't see any sources. I Haven't removed her because I also have no evidence she shouldn't be there.
But then I look at the boys. Niels was born about 1764 (according to the military roll) and the parents we've found weren't married until 1765.
any thoughts?
Jens Nielsen
Deceased • LHYQ-VRS
Inger Nielsen
Deceased • LBVR-MDH
Marriage: 1765
Tornby, Hjørring, Denmark
Children (5)
Kirsten Jensdatter
1761–Deceased • MXVR-3X4
Niels Jensen
1764–Deceased • M5H2-9PJ
Jorgen Jensen
1766–1848 • LCVG-4ZR
Michel Jensen
1767–Deceased • M5H2-9GW
Peder Jensen Sort
1769–Deceased • M5H5-D7Z
Cyndi,
Citataccording to the dates on the military rolls I may still have the wrong family
I believe that you have the right family.
The 1789 Military Rolls were written in the period Nov.
1789 - Oct. 1790Niels was born around 1765
Jørgen 1766/1767
Michel 1768
Peder in 1770 that's for sure
CitatPeder Jensen Sort
Where did you find the evidence that Peder Sort is the brother of Niels, Jørgen and Michel?
CitatKirsten Jensdatter
1761–Deceased • MXVR-3X4
Where did you find the connection with the four boys?
CitatI noticed something here that confuses me.
Is there some tradition I haven't learned about yet with names?
Why in Kiersten's probate are the son in law's names different?
Instead of Niels Pedersen we have Niels Kok and
Instead of Jørgen Jensen we have Jørgen Kragh
This is not unusual. Jørgen Jensen were married to a female from the Kragh family and the Kok name was probably a "nickname" to the Pedersen family.
CitatAt least until I find a death record for Jens.
You can't. We have searched allover. Probate records can't be found either. :(
Britta;
CitatWhere did you find the evidence that Peder Sort is the brother of Niels, Jørgen and Michel?
He is a witness at the baptism's in Rubjerg of Inger Marie, Johanne Marie, Zidsel Marie (Jørgen's daughter's)
Interesting as I look back on these children's names: His children born in Sankt Olai do not have middle names. All those born in Rubjerg do have middle names.
that is helpful knowing the time frame of the military rolls.
As for Kirsten
CitatWhere did you find the connection with the four boys?
She was attached to them on familytree. However, I've found a census that places her with the other Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Knudsdatter so I will be removing her.
Hi :)
I have been looking into one of the Jens Nielsen in Skibsby. I´ll put my notes here, so I don´t forget them.
1792 something happened.
In January 1792 Jens Nielsens wife Kirsten Christensdatter died and later that month Søren Christensen Krag dies and leave his widow Kirsten Mikkelsdatter.
Skibsby is nothing more than a small collection of farms. Here we have a man without a woman, to care for the household and a woman without a man to do the farmwork.
What do they do?
They get married the following year, on 18th. of January.
Ps. Kirsten Mikkelsdatter is probably the same who got a child Maren, before she got married the first time.
Notes:
Hjørring A., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 93.
8. jan. 1792. Jens Nielsens kone i Schibsbye Kirsten Christensdatter gl. 59 Aar.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548465
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 93.
24. jan. 1792. Søren Christensen Krag i Schibsbye gl. 60 Aar.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548465
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 98.
1793. 18. jan. Trolovet Enkemand Jens Nielsen i Skibsbye og Enken Kirsten Michelsdatter i Schibsbye. Forlovere: Anders Nielsen Tiirup i Schibsbye og Jens Jensen Frost?.ibid. Bevis for Skifte holdtes for begge. Siche? forewist. Ægteviede d. 10. Feb.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548470
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1753FVKD-1781FVKD. Opsl. 85.
1757, 24. april døbt Kirsten Michelsdatters af Schibsbye hendes uægte barn og som hafer aulet med Peder Jensen tienende hos Anders Riis. Maren. Faddere: Anna Xstensdatter i Nørgaard i Skibsby, Johanne Christensdatter hos Ulrik ibidm, Christen Mogensen ibid, Jacob Nielsen ibid, Jens Marqvorsen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548331
Kind regards :)
Karin
Karin;
WHOA!! If this is YOUR family then we ARE related. But probably not on the Jens Nielsen line. For sure on the Søren Christensen Krag side. (at the bottom of this I'll show you how I'm related and maybe you could do the same?)
So cool!
I had found the record for Søren's death but someone translated it "April 24, 1792" so I looked closer at the record and it looks like Mar. 24th to me. ?? But then again I have no clue how to read these records. I just see a name here and a number there and - guess a lot. Lol
Is there any way to tell which Jens Nielsen;
father of Jørgen Jensen or step father in law of Jørgen Jensen, attended all of the baptisms of Jørgen's children?
I think I can be sure it was Jens Nielsen the step father of Kirsten in attendance to the first two baptisms. It says "Jens Nielsen in Schibsbye"
the baptism for Kirsten says "Jens Nielsen of Hjøring" ??
the baptism for the 2nd Søren in 1801 says "Jens Nielsen" no identifier
then for the rest of the children born in Rubjerg there are no Jens Nielsen's as witness.
I wonder if I should assume that Jens Nielsen from Tornby died before these children were born. He was in attendance at there marriage in Oct 1792 "guarantors, Hans Mikkelsen of Skibsby and Jens Nielsen of Tornby"
And why wouldn't Kirsten's mother, Kirsten Michelsdatter be listed in the witnesses at the baptisms? She married her second husband in Jan 1793, first grandchild born Oct 6 1793. Jens Nielsen in Schibsbye is witness but she is not. Could she have died before then? Or would there be other reasons grandma wouldn't be listed as witness?
I've been looking for a Jens Nielsen from EITHER Sankt Olai or Tornby....but I think I'm beginning to see that Jørgen's family is from Tornby and Kirsten's family is from Sankt Olai, so I
Need to find the right Jens Nielsen from Tornby, not Sankt Olai.
So far, I've found 3 Jens Nielsen's born in Tornby within the age that could be father of Jørgen Jensen.
Kirsten Sørensdatter's father died 6 or 7 months (or 9 if it was January) before Kirstine Sorensdatter was married Jorgen Jensen. Looking at the witnesses at her marriage I assumed that Hans Mikkelsen of Schibsbye was maybe an uncle... a brother to Kirsten Mikkelsen. The other witness was Jens Nielsen of Tornbye....so we know this one is Jørgen's father because it specifies Tornbye.
What is this a record of? The more I look at it and see the names, I'm guessing this is the marriage of Jens Nielsen and Kirsten Michelsdatter.
(Part of this thread gets translated into English and part of it doesn't. Even when I type in English I look at it after I save it and some of it is in English and some in Danish.
I try to use Google translate but sometimes it doesn't work.)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans sogn. 1780FVKD-1804FVKD. Opsl. 98.
1793. 18. jan. Trolovet Enkemand Jens Nielsen i Skibsbye og Enken Kirsten Michelsdatter i Schibsbye. Forlovere: Anders Nielsen Tiirup i Schibsbye og Jens Jensen Frost?.ibid. Bevis for Skifte holdtes for begge. Siche? forewist. Ægteviede d. 10. Feb.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548470
This one also I cannot read going to the link it appears to be the birth of the Maren, you mentioned above. So then, who is the father and what would Maren's last name be? I see someone added a Maren to Søren and Kirsten in familysearch as Maren Christensdatter. (OH wait, it looks like I did Thankfully I put a source. She is listed as Maren Sørensdatter in the Probate of Soren Christensen Kragh.) And only Kirsten and Maren are listed in the probate. Does that me they were the only two children he had?
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn. 1753FVKD-1781FVKD. Opsl. 85.
1757, 24. april døbt Kirsten Michelsdatters af Schibsbye hendes uægte barn og som hafer aulet med Peder Jensen tienende hos Anders Riis. Maren. Faddere: Anna Xstensdatter i Nørgaard i Skibsby, Johanne Christensdatter hos Ulrik ibidm, Christen Mogensen ibid, Jacob Nielsen ibid, Jens Marqvorsen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164082,27548331
The witnesses at the second marriage of Kirsten and Jens Nielsen caught my eye....this
"Jens Jensen Frost" with a step daughter Mette Christensdatter, could it be Praest instead of Frost? (I don't know how to push the a&e together ;)) I found this census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid162244
I find that name interesting because it also shows up as a witness in Jørgen's first child's baptism. (oh, that's how I came up with the Mette Christensdatter as a step daughter....she is also a witness.)
So would there be some relationship with him?
How I'm related to:
Søren Christensen Krag & Kirsten Michelsdatter –
Kirsten Sørensdatter & Jørgen Jensen –
Kirsten Jørgensdatter & Niels Jensen –
Niels Peter Nielsen & Mariane Margaret Larsen –
Karen Margretha Nielsen & Niels Andersen –
Anna Adora Andersen is my grandmother.
with much gratitude,
Cyndi
Karin,
I see looking back in this thread (I LOVE that this is all together) that Britta found the Probate for Soren and for Kirsten.
So Kirsten died in 1801. So I still wonder why she wasn't listed as a Witness at the first 3 of Jorgen's children's baptisms. ??? She was still alive and her 2nd husband was there.
CitatPROBATE for Kiersten Michelsdatter 2nd marriage:
20.05.1801 Kiersten Michelsdatter in Skibsby Fol. 27
Jens Nielsen, here 2nd marriage [marriage]
Heirs: The widow
Children of 1. marriage: children in 1. marriage
Maren Sørensdatter, gm Husmann Niels Kok in Trædholt in Bjergby
Kiersten Sørensdatter, gm Jørgen Kragh in Skibsby
Source: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685
right side no 12
Hi :)
I´m sorry I have not yet followed up on your questions. It will have to wait for a little while.
As I told in my last post, I have been looking into the Jens Nielsens in the Skibsby area.
I have inherited some notes from my great grandfather that I have not been looking at in years. These notes is not always right. According to these papers my 3th. great grandfather had a brother Jens Nielsen. This I have confirmed. In 1793 he is in Aalborg according to the Lægdsrulle.
My 3th. great grandfather is this guy:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sct. Olai sogn. Fol 405. Opsl. 198.
1838. No. 7. Død d. 12. nov., begr. d. 18. nov. Michel Nielsen Sommerdahl. Huusmand på Schibsbyheden. 82 år.
I will not write a lot about him, because this topic should be about Jørgen Jensen.
Kind regards :)
Karin
I see the value of keeping all the info in one place when searching for a family. ;D
I tried another forum and found that I like this one the best. The other one Britta helped me on as well. Thank you Britta.
So now I'm going to try and add everything I've learned from that other forum and facebook about this family to this thread to keep it all together.
In looking for Jørgen's parents Britta helped me find the following:
Here is the 1738 JensCitat
Hjørring County, Vennebjerg District, Tornby Parish 1683 - 1738
1738 Dom.: 1. post Trin: Niels Michelsens og Karen Jens-
datters Søn til Daaben kaldet Jens. Maren Peders-
datter bar Barnet. Faddere Frands Jørgensen, Christi-
an Jørgensen, Jens Møller
(I have no idea what the Danish words mean....google translate didn't work)
There is something about this one. There is a Jens Møller – seems like an unusual name to me.
Jens Møller never shows up as a witness for Jørgen Jensen's children's baptisms but there is a MØLLER.
Anders Møller.
I wonder if there is some relationship with Møller's
Depending on how accurate the date is on the 1801 Census https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557290 I think this would be my family. But there is another Jens Nielsen born in Tornby within 2 years so I'm still not sure.
and there is a similarity with the 1736 Jens Nielsen as well :-\
1736 Jens Nielsen: Citathttps://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../sour.../opslag5056624
Hjørring County, Vennebjerg District, Tornby Parish 1683 – 1738
1736 Dom.: Festo Epiphan. Niels Jensen Pletter/Platter?* og Maren
Stephansdatters Barn til Daaben kaldet Jens.
Præstens koune Helvig Glud? bar Barnet. Faddere
Lauritz Pedersen, Lauritz Jensen, Anders Jensen,
Peder Stephensen
Epiphan = Ephiphania = January 6, 1736
[*Plet is a place in Vrejlev Parish]
This one has a Stephansdatter – and there was a Stephansen as a witness at Jørgen's children's baptisms.
Britta found a probate to go along with the 1738 Jens Nielsen
In this probate there are names similar to Jørgen's Children's names:
Anne, Michel, and Johanne.Probate for the mother IF the 1838 Jens Nielsen is the right one for my family.
PROBATE for Karen JensdatterCitat08.01.1761 Karen Jensdatter i Tornby, død 08.11.1760 Fol. 142b
Niels Michelsen
Arvinger: Enkemanden [Heirs: the widower
Børn: Jens Nielsen, 22 år [children]
Anne Nielsdatter, 21 år
Maren Nielsdatter, 20 år
Michel Nielsen, 13 år
Johanne Nielsdatter, 13 år
Peder Nielsen, 9 år
My Jens Nielsen had 4 sons named
Niels, Jorgen, Michel, Peder and 3 of these 4 names are also found in the 1838 Jens Nielsen's family (All but Jørgen)
I tried to find some of these brothers and sisters but was not very successful. Fun note...looks like Michel and Johanne are twins.
I found A Michel Nielsen but not sure he's the right one.
There are these two censuses close to but not in Tornby, but I'm not sure they are the right Michel.
1787 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid152050 and
1801 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1461301
Records seem to be very hard to come by for this family. In fact, if you recall, we can't find birth records for Jorgen and his siblings before 1770. Thankfully we did find Peder in 1770.
I seem to be having the same issue with his parents. Looking at the Tornby records it appears to me from the index page that there are no birth records for 1739-1769 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../sour.../opslag5055285
So I have Jens Nielsen but not his brothers and sisters
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have helped with this.
ikes....how do you delete a reply? I seem to have trouble when I try to click on something in danish thinking I remember which button is the edit button and instead end up quoting myself ::)
So all I can do is go back and try to edit again, highlight and delete the repeated message - leaving this message to forever show my weakness, etched into cyberspace. :'(
lol
Britta,
you have been so helpful with probates. I used the search tool you taught me about and found this:
AASTRUP i Sct.Hans sogn Maren Stephansdatter Sønder Harritslev 06 11 1776 2 719 754 ugift tjenestepige
I don't know where to go from here to find the actual probate. Would you teach me the steps to find it and also would you mind translating this one? I think this might be the mother of the 1836 Jens Nielsen....although they would have had to move from Tornby to Aastrup.
Thank you so much,
Cyndi
another question:
Will it always show the father's name on the military rolls even if he has died? or is this an indication that Jens Nielsen was still alive at least through 1802 where he is listed as father of Jørgen in the military rolls?
CitatPlease follow him in the Military Levying Rolls:
12_189 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 listed in Tornby + his brothers
Hovedrulle Hjørring 1795 28_140/106 (lægd 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485
Hovedrulle 1798 28_106/84 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059940
Going to 17_K97 [lægd 17 = Rubjerg in 1802]
17_K98 His son Søren Jørgensen born on March 18, 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18300,1061643
Hovedrulle 1803_17_97/68 Jørgen Jensen
1803_17_98/69 his son Søren Jørgensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061898
Does anyone know what happened to the Tornby church books? Seems that every part of it I need is missing.
1- the birth records between 1739 and 1769
2- and now looks like the records for 1801 - 1814 are also missing.
did something happen to them or are they just not available yet?
Hi Cindi. :)
Sorry for writing these notes mostly in Danish, but I think you know most of the words by now. If not, just ask.
I have been looking into the family of Jørgen Jensen as we know it from the military roll. (The BK+numbers are my numbers from my database, you can refer to them).
Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK2899) Jens Nielsen
(BK17288) 188. Niels Jensen - Tornbye - 25 (born 1764) - 62 - Brønderup.
(BK17265) 189. Jørgen Jensen - Tornbye - 24 (born 1765) - 61 - Skibsbye - Hsmand.
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769) - 61 - Svagelieg? - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
Unfortunately the churchbooks from Tornby is missing, for some of the years quite critical to the investigation of this family. However we do get some help from censuses and the probate from Fuglsig Gods. (The link from answer #31 http://www.jens-ejgild.dk/gods/g_fulsig.txt ). Hopefully we can "work around" the missing pages.
We have been looking into the witnesses to the baptism of Jørgens children (this topic, page 1, answer #15+#18).
We noticed a Jens Nielsen mentioned as a witness to these baptisms. The priest does not tell anything else that the name of the witnesses, so we actually don´t know, if it is the same Jens Nielsen, who appears in both Sanct Olai sogn and Rubjerg parishes. The name Jens Nielsen is quite common in Denmark, also in this parishes. We also don ´t know if Jørgen has any sisters.
If I look at Jørgens elder brother Niels, I think I have found these info:
(BK17288) Niels Jensen - Tornbye - (age=) 26 - (hight=) 62 - (whereabouts=) Brønderup.
Age 1793 = 26 (born 1767 +/-)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 38.
4. marts 1791 unge Karl Niels Jensen(BK17288) tienende Peder Mikkelsen i Brønderup og Pigen Ane Marie Thomasdatter (BK17296) af Hiøring. Forlovere: Christen Christensen af Brønderup og Peder Mikkelsen ibid. Ægteviede d. 25. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548410
Baptised: Dorethe (BK12797)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans+Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 13.
3. juli 1791. Niels Jensen og hustru Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Daaben confirm. d. 17. Juli. Dorethe. Q. f.: Ellen Simonsdatter, Peder Pedersens hustru, Maren Christensdatter. M. f. Christen Jensen Lendum, Lars Pedersen tienende i Bidstrup, Jørgen Jensen t. i Brønderup(BK17265) . Introd.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548385
Baptised: Inger Marie (BK17298)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 16.
28. juli. 1793. Niels Jensen og Ane Marie Bødkers. Inger Marie. Q. f. Maren, Søren Andersens datter i Giurup, Marie Andersdatter ibidm. M. f.: Christen Andersen hos Simon Skrædder, Mikkel Jensen t. i Sønderlev, Peder Jensen t. i Fuglsig. Intr. d. 25. aug.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548388
Baptised: Bodel Sophie (17299)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 20.
17. April 1797. Niels Jensen Sort og hustru Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt d. 20. Maj. Bodel Sophie. Q. f. Karen Knudsdatter fra Bidstrup, Ane Marie Poulsdatter. M. f. Mikkel Jensen t(iener) (BK17289) hos [Christen Thomasen] Høgsted, Peder Jensen t. i Fuglsig (BK17290), Christen Christensen t. i Fuglsig. Introd. d. 17. April.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548392
Baptised: Karen (BK17300)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 23.
14. dec. 1798. Niels Jensen Sort og hustru Anmarie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Karen, Conf. d. 13. jan. 1799. Qvinde fadd: Inger, Kristian Hattemagers datter. Ane Laursdatter. M. fadd: Mikkel Jensen (BK17289), Peder Jensen(BK17290) , Christen Mortensen alle af Hiøring. Introd. d. 13. jan. 1799.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548395
Baptised: Thomas (BK17301)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 26.
22. jan. 1801. Niels Jensen og Anne Marie Thomasdatter, hiemmedøbt Thomas Daaben d. 22. Februarii. Qv faddere: Peder Høygaards Enke Maren Christensdatter og Maren Jensdatter. Mands faddere: Peder Christensen, Lars Pedersen, Thomas Sørensen. Introd. 1. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548398
More about Niels Jensen and this family:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 116, , 140, FT-1801, B8161
Niels Jensen Sort 35 Gift Mand Daglejer
Ane Marie Thomasdatter 32 Gift Hans kone
Dorthe Nielsdatter 10 Ugift Deres barn
Inger Marie Nielsdatter 8 Ugift Deres barn
Bodil Sophie Nielsdatter 4 Ugift Deres barn
Karen Nielsdatter 2 Ugift Deres barn
Thomas Nielsen 1Ugift Deres barn
I have not yet found Anne Marie Thomasdatter dead. (Dead between 1800-1823)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Niels Jensen married again:
Census:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, St. Hans Kirkelod, 14 F3, FT-1834, C5684
Niels Jensen Sort 67 Gift Arbeidsmand
Maren Hansdatter 60 Gift hans Kone
Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter 11 Ugift deres Datter (Baptism not yet found in Sanct Olai)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Niels Jensen Sort died April 20th. 1845, buried the 26th. in Sanct Olai sogn, 82 years old. He was poor and died from old age weakness.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
Kind Regards
Karin.
NB. Cindi. Note this forum is different from Facebook. When writing an answer you´ll unfortunately only be permitted to edit for 30 minutes. You can choose to se your answer with pressing "forhåndsvisning" while you are working on your answer - and wait to press send untill you are fairly sure to be done.
I hope I got Niels and family right :-D
Hi again :)
Jørgens brother Mikkel Jensen (Sort) (BK17289)
Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767 +/-) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
Michel baptised:
21. aug. 1768. No churchbook record available. Date known because of note from his communion.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194
Communion:
Tornby sogn. 1788. Konfirmeret Michel Jensen døbt Dom 12. p. Trinit [21. aug.]1768
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194
Marriage:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 40.
1797. Dec. 12. Trolovet ung karl Mikkel Jensen (BK17289) fra Tiirup med Pigen Kirsten Laursdatter (BK17481) Forlovere Kiøbmand Klausen? og Snedkermester Svend Lund af Hiøring og xxvied d. 23. jan. 98.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548412
Baptism: Inger Marie (BK17482)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 22.
1798. Juni d. 7. Mickel Jensen og hustru Kirsten Laursdatter hiemmedøbt Inger Marie konf. d. 8. Juli. Q.F.: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267), Karen Nyegaards Datter. M. F.: Stephen Madsen, Niels Jensen (BK17288), Peder Jensen (BK17290).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548394
Note: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267) is the wife of Mickels brother Jørgen Jensen (BK17265)
Baptism: Else (BK17483)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 24.
1799. d. 5. okt. Mickel Jensen Sort og hustru Kirsten Laurs Datter, Else hiemmedøbt Conf. d. 3. Nov. Q.F.: Maren Nielsdatter Rebslager kone og Ane fra Wandsted? M. F.: Niels Jensen (BK17288) i Hiøring, Peder Jensen (BK17290) hos Købmand Løth og Christen Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548396
More about this family:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn, Schibsbye, , 24, FT-1801, B8401
Michel Jensen 50 Gift Mand Inderster og hand inrouleret Matros (He is a sailor)
Else Nielsdatter 48 Gift hans Kone
Inger Michelsdatter 3 Ugift deres Barn
Else Michelsdatter 2 Ugift deres Barn
Note, no Jens Nielsen or Inger Nielsdatter as witnesses to any of these baptisms.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Hi. :)
Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK2899) Jens Nielsen
(BK17288) 188. Niels Jensen - Tornbye - 25 (born 1764) - 62 - Brønderup.
(BK17265) 189. Jørgen Jensen - Tornbye - 24 (born 1765) - 61 - Skibsbye - Hsmand.
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769) - 61 - Svagelieg? - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
Jørgens brother Peder is a little more tricky than the others.
First what we do know about Peder Jensen:
Peder Jensen (Sort) (BK17290)
From the military roll 1789:
Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK17290) 191. Peder Jensen - Tornby - 20 (born 1769 +/-) - 61 - Svagelieg? - begiert tiente i Sønderlef.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
Baptism: Peder
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Tornby sogn. 1739FKVD-1798FKVD. Opsl. 5.
1770. 9. Samme dag [1. juli] blev Jens Nielsen (BK2899) og Inger Nielsdatters (BK17291) Barns Daab forkÿndt for Menigheden som tilforn var hiemmedøbt og kaldet Peder. Peder Christensens hustru bar Barnet. Faddere: Anders Lilholt, Christen Thomsen, Jens Olesen, Jens Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645091
Military roll 1793 A:
Lægdsrullen Sejlstrup.
Jens Nielsen.
Han er streget over i lægdsrullen. Peder Jensen. Tornby. 2x?, 63. Fuglsig. Begæret af godsejeren.
(His name is stretched over after demand from his land owner. Meaning not available for military service other than the landowners).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My guess is, this would be him, but it is to be further investigated:
Marriage:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. 42.
1800. 31. okt. viede 28. nov. Peder Jensen (BK17290) her af Byen og Pigen Anne Marie Povlsdatter (BK17492). Forlovere undertegnede: Niels Christensen og Niels Jensen (BK17288).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414
The 1787 census doesn`t give an answer about his whereabouts, only some guesses about which one of the Peder Jensen might be him.
The census 1801 is a little better. Here I can find a Anne Marie Poulsen, married, but her husband not mentioned at the same address.
However....??? Just next door, a married Peder Jensen lives without his wife. Might his age here (51) be wrong? Did the writer make a mistake?
Anne Marie Poulsdatter in census 1801:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 91, , 117, FT-1801, B8161
Maren Andersdatter 63 Enke Tilleje boende Haandarbejde
Anne Marie Poulsdatter 35 Gift Hendes datter
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897191
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 90, , 115, FT-1801, B8161
Jens Jørgensen 53 Gift Husbonde Avlsbruger
Woldborg Pedersdatter 63 Gift Hans kone
Peder Jensen 51 Gift Tjenestefolk (fejlskrivning for 31 år?)
Ane Cathrine Andersdatter 19 Ugift Tjenestefolk
Apellone Hansdatter 10 Ugift Tjenestefolk
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897190
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
WOW you've done a lot of work. I had to set it aside for some special family events but I should be able to get back to it now.
CitatSorry for writing these notes mostly in Danish, but I think you know most of the words by now. If not, just ask.
no worries about this. apparently this forum translates the words so I see most of them in English. Sometimes it is mixed. I write in English but when I go back and look some is in English and some is in Danish. Almost makes it look like I know Danish. :D 8)
I am hoping to look, in depth, at all that you have found a little later today. Just glancing over this with the little time I have this morning it looks like you've found the families of Jørgen's brothers. later today I hope to look at all the witnesses for each family and see if there is any in common.
Thank you for all your efforts. we'll be in touch soon.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
keep smiling and have a happy day,
Cyndi
Karin:
I've been putting all the information you found in a spreadsheet to look at. There is a lot here. I hope to look at it more closely tomorrow.
I have been searching some as well and I think I may have found Niels Jensen Sort's wife's death
CitatI have not yet found Anne Marie Thomasdatter dead. (Dead between 1800-1823)
Could this be Anne Marie Thomasdatter? I can't tell for sure what the Niels in this record's last name is but it kind of looks like Sort.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261)
1st one under 1826
ok some of my observations:
Niels Jensen Finding Niels Jensen 2nd marriage record caused me momentarily to wonder if we've been following the wrong Jorgen Jensen.
Maybe my Jorgen Jensen is not the Jorgen Jensen one of 4 brothers found in the military rolls.
Though, we do see all of the other brother's names as witnesses at different baptisms for all the brothers you have found.
However only Peder Sort ever shows up at the baptisms of Jorgen's children.
And none of the other Jensen boys who show up at the baptisms of those you found have the name SORT after them.
However.... This marriage record does show a Niels Jensen SORT. so that confirms we have found at least 3 of the 4 boys with the name SORT. But the marriage record of Niels SORT shows the wrong date to be the Niels Jensen in the military rolls.
According to this marriage record for Niels Jensen SORT's 2nd marriage he was 58 in 1827. That would make his birth year about 1769. Niels, one of the 4 brothers in the military rolls, was born abt 1764.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source140233/opslag15468230 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source140233/opslag15468230)
Am I overthinking this? ;) Which of the parish records are the most accurate? Can they be off the birth date by that much?
There is a Niels Jensen (No SORT in his name) in this death record which you found, showing he was 82 in 1845 making his birth year 1763 (which does work with the military record).
Citathttps://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
By the way, what is this record?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930)
It is typed and so easy to read :) and it looks to me like other family members are listed as well.
Is there one of these record books for the Tornby parish?
What does the word "tienende" mean after Niels Jensen's name in this Marriage record?
CitatHjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 38.
4. marts 1791 unge Karl Niels Jensen(BK17288) tienende Peder Mikkelsen i Brønderup og Pigen Ane Marie Thomasdatter (BK17296) af Hiøring. Forlovere: Christen Christensen af Brønderup og Peder Mikkelsen ibid. Ægteviede d. 25. Marts.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548410
Now on to PEDER Jensen Sort Thanks for finding:
1800 Marriage of Peder Jensen to Anne Marie Poulsdatter looks like they were married in Hjorring parish.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414
(https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414)
Citat1801 Census there is an Anne Marie Poulsen married but husband not mentioned at same address
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897191
HOWEVER next door, a married Peder Jensen lives without his wife. Might his age here 51, be wrong? Did the writer make a mistake?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897190
Very interesting. Why would a couple newly married not be living together?
Maybe she was just visiting her mother when the census taker came by?
I looked through the Hjorring, St Hans and St Olai Parishes from 1801 through 1806 and couldn't see any children born to this union, although very hard to read many.
The closest I could see was this one - Incredibly hard to read - 3rd from the bottom.
Maybe 26 Feb - It looks like the parents are a Peder and Anne but probably not the right last names.
But it caught my eye becasue the witnesses include Niels Jensen and Peder Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401
(https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401)
There is another Peder Jensen I was looking at:
Peder Jensen birth 1771 married to Johanne Iversdatter living in Tornby - NØRRE TORNBYE 1801
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557180
looks like Johanne remarries Dec 20 1817 in Tornby which means Peder died before 1817
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn435/churchlisting136962/opslag14902212
There is a peder jensen who died sept 1817. Which then of course can't be our peder because he was a witness at Zidsel Marie Jorgensdatter's baptism Oct 4 1817 (Jorgen's daughter)
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn435/churchbook/source136962/opslag14902243
I don't understand the military rolls well enough yet. I have a friend, who in a week or so, who will spend some time and try to teach me. In the meantime.... This one you posted
CitatMilitary roll 1793 A:
Lægdsrullen Sejlstrup.
Jens Nielsen.
Han er streget over i lægdsrullen. Peder Jensen. Tornby. 2x?, 63. Fuglsig. Begæret af godsejeren.
(His name is stretched over after demand from his land owner. Meaning not available for military service other than the landowners).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229
Am I to understand Peder is in Fuglsig, Sankt Olai in 1793? How old are they when they are no longer tracked?
While looking for peder and Ann's children I came across this record from Hjorring Parish:
Looks like maybe another child for Niels Jensen Sort and Ane Marie Thomasdatter but I can't read it.
Last record left side
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400)
Looks like I have lots of questions and so I thought to make things easier I would recap them all in one list. :)
1. Am I overthinking this? Are will still following the correct Jorgen Jensen?
2. Which of the parish records are the most accurate....can they be off the birth date by 5 or more years?
3. What is this record and is there a book like this for other parishes such as Tornby?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930)
4. What does the word "tienende" mean
5. Were you able to read the birth record for a Peder and Ann? Are they the wrong last names?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401
(https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548401)
6. Am I understanding correctly: Peder is in Fuglsig, Sankt Olai in 1793? (from the military roll) How old are they when they are no longer tracked?
7. Is this another child for Niels Jensen and Ane Marie Thomasdatter?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400)
From a previous post:
8. Is this Niels Jensen's wife Anne Marie Thomasdatter's death record:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261
(https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468261)
I can't tell you how much I appreciate this help. It's great!
Gratefully,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
Great idéa with the question list.
I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.
No. 1.
I think we are following the right Jørgen Jensen. The name Jørgen is not that common in this area. I am aware there is another Jørgen Jensen in the area, but I am convinced he is a lot older than your Jørgen.
No. 2.
It is not easy to establish which record would be the most accurate. They have different purposes.
Lots of people couldn´t read or write and if you had a child born the year the mill broke down or the year someones farm burned down, it is pretty hard to keep track of which year it actually was.
Usually I think we would say it is the church book. Here it is important to note it is the baptisms that are on record, not the time of birth. I have seen a child baptized 6 years after birth.
Usually you can follow the different church events from the date to date, year after year and sometimes you forget that at the time back then, the church books was nothing else than the priests book for accounting. It was made to show the Bishop how much work the Priest did. You will sometimes see the price people gave for the service. A lot of Priests did not write down the baptisms of their own children (They didn´t pay themselves)
When I wrote about Niels Jensen (Sort) (BK17288) I forgot this note telling the date of Nielses baptism.
Tornby sogn. 1782. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen døbt 25. marts 1763
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645192
I believe this is your Niels. It illustrate the problems we have with. I would consider this note to show the correct birth year, because the priest who wrote it actually had access to the now missing church books notes. All the other info we have is due to peoples memory.
The censuses were made after several epidemics of pest, and was "only" made in order to count the population. The age of the people counted was only important in the sense it could give the authorities an estimate of how many would be able to pay tax and how many would be available for military service (- before the invention of the military rolls).
No. 3.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
This is a register someone has made and it makes searching a lot easier. Unfortunately not all parishes has one.
No. 4.
"tienende" is now the Danish word tjenende and means you are working for someone.
No. 5.
I read it as Peder Pedersen and Anne Nielsdatter, so not yours.
No. 6.
Yes Peder is working in Fuglsig (big farm) in 1793. I am absolutely not an expert in the militaryrolls, but I think I know they leave their fathers name, so to speak when they become head of their own household.
No. 7.
Yes.
D. 3. april. Niels Jensen Sort og Ane Marie Thomasdatter. Hiemmedøbt Marie i? kirke d. 7. april. Q. f. Karen xxxxxxdtr? i Seoxxx? og Birgitte Jensdat., xx Hartman. Mande fadder: Jens Paaskesen, Jens Præst?, Anders Christensen og Thomas Nielsen. (Introd.) Samme dag. (Same day)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548400
No. 8.
Yes I think you found Ane Marie Thomasdatters burial.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
You are so kind to keep answering my many questions. Thank you
If this date is accurate he couldn't be Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter's son...they didn't get married until 1765
CitatTornby sogn. 1782. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen døbt 25. marts 1763
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645192
How does one find out if a parish has this type of record?
CitatNo. 3.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17148227#188589,31876930
This is a register someone has made and it makes searching a lot easier. Unfortunately not all parishes has one.
I've been working all day on this and looking back at past notes. I have a question about the military roll for Niels
I really don't understand the rolls at all. On this one for Niels, which number is he? I found a Niels #142 that is age 26 height 62 but it looks like a different father.
Citat(BK17288) Niels Jensen - Tornbye - (age=) 26 - (hight=) 62 - (whereabouts=) Brønderup.
Age 1793 = 26 (born 1767 +/-)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057229
thank you kindly,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
You are welcome. I get to find some info about my own ancestors at the same time :)
Oh, I am so sorry. You are right. I was a little too fast. I mixed up to of my Niels Jensens.
It should have been this konfirmation of a Niels Jensen (because of the wedding date and year for Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter.
Tornby sogn. 1784. Dom Qvasid. d. 18. april. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen (BK17288) døbt Dom Palme [23. marts] 1766
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645193
To check if any register is made for a parish you can use the link to the state archives.
https://www.sa.dk/da/brug-arkivet/arkivalieronline-se-originale-dokumenter-paa-nettet/
Choose church books (Kirkebøger)
Choose Church books from the whole country. (Kirkebøger fra hele landet)
Fill in Amt (the bigger area/county) (We are working with Hjørring Amt)
Choose Arkiv.
and choose parish. (this register is from Hjørring, Sankt Hans sogn)
You now get 3 choises.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/geo/geo-collection/5
The last one is the register.
If a register is available it will be shown at the bottom of the lists of available books for the parish you have chosen. A lot of the official registers are only available for the bigger cities, not often for the smaller parishes in the countryside. However a lot of people have made registers for the parishes they have been working with and have been kind enough to make them accessable for all of us by putting them on the internet. To google for info is always a good source for info.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Britta:
Are you still with us?
Can I ask you some more questions about the Military rolls you posted?
CitatPlease follow him in the Military Levying Rolls:
12_189 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 listed in Tornby + his brothers
Hovedrulle Hjørring 1795 28_140/106 (lægd 28 = Hjørring Sankt Olai Parish)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058485
Hovedrulle 1798 28_106/84 Jørgen Jensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059940
Going to 17_K97 [lægd 17 = Rubjerg in 1802]
17_K98 His son Søren Jørgensen born on March 18, 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18300,1061643
Hovedrulle 1803_17_97/68 Jørgen Jensen
1803_17_98/69 his son Søren Jørgensen
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061898
You mention for the 1789 Rolls, what is the time frame of the other rolls you found?
CitatThe 1789 Military Rolls were written in the period Nov. 1789 - Oct. 1790
I'm struggling with the birth years for all the boys (
to fit the births of 4 boys between 23 March 1766, a birth year Karin found in a confirmation for Niels and
1 July 1770 when we Know that Peder was born, so I thought I would see what I could learn from the rolls you found.
Year
Name, age
1789 Niels 25
Jorgen 24
Mikkel 22
Peder 20
1795 (are they not found in 1792?)
Niels 29 (6 years later only 4 years older)
Jorgan 28 (6 years later only 4 years older)
Where are Mikkel and Peder?
1798 Jorgen 31 (what is the word that is not crossed out - between his name and age?)
Is that Niels right below Jorgen crossed out (104/85)? If Yes can you tell me what all the notes say?
and again, where are Mikkel and Peder?
1803 (5 years between?) Jorgen 35
where are Niels, Mikkel, and Peder? (I'm assuming, if that is Niels in 1798, that he dropped off the rolls)
and, I'm assuming that Jens Nielsen is still alive? since he is still listed over his boys?
Thank you much for all your help,
gratefully,
Cyndi
Karin:
Thank you for guiding me through finding those other registers.
I'm still going through all the wonderful information you have found.
CitatNiels Jensen married again:
Census:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, St. Hans Kirkelod, 14 F3, FT-1834, C5684
Niels Jensen Sort 67 Gift Arbeidsmand
Maren Hansdatter 60 Gift hans Kone
Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter 11 Ugift deres Datter (Baptism not yet found in Sanct Olai)
could this record below be the Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter found in the census with Niels Jensen and his 2nd wife Maren Hansdatter?
I've put together a spreadsheet showing where everyone lived and when. Looks like Niels Jensen spent most of his life in Hjørring parish. I'm not sure when he moved there from Tornby.
So I looked for the record of Maren Kirstine Nielsdatter in Hjørring rather than Sanct Olai. an 1845 census I found for her also says she was born in Hjørring.
In this record it looks like Maren Hansdatter is the mother but the father's name doesn't look like a name to give Maren Kirstine the last name of Nielsdatter.....could Niels have adopted her?
Oct 25 1823 in Hjørring parish - very last record "Maren Kirstine"
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source10036/opslag69004 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/sogn425/churchbook/source10036/opslag69004)
If the birth of Niels is 23 March 1766 and Michel is 21 Aug 1768 Isn't that really pushing it to have another child (Jørgan) in between those 2?
Without any more information given in those confirmation records, and with as many Niels Jensens as their are, I don't know how we can tell which one is ours.
CitatIt should have been this konfirmation of a Niels Jensen (because of the wedding date and year for Jens Nielsen and Inger Nielsdatter.
Tornby sogn. 1784. Dom Qvasid. d. 18. april. Konfirmeret Niels Jensen (BK17288) døbt Dom Palme [23. marts] 1766
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645193
CitatMichel baptised:
21. aug. 1768. No churchbook record available. Date known because of note from his communion.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194
Thanks for sticking with me on this ;)
with gratitude,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
You are welcome.
I found this new link that might help me figuring out those "lægdsruller" (military rolls) https://lægdsruller.dk/# It is in Danish, but play around with it and I guess it will help you too.
I´ll try to answer some of the questions you asked Britta.
If you use the link below you find a menu (with the black background), choose find sogn - by (city)
https://lægdsruller.dk/#
Vælg sogn eller købsted = choose parish or city
Vælg år (choose year)
About the roll you can´t find for 1792, it shows that no digitalized roll is found. If you choose another of the years we have been looking into, you´ll find a note about the timeframe the roll was written.
You asked:
1798
Jorgen 31 (what is the word that is not crossed out - between his name and age?)
It is Thornby = Tornby
Is that Niels right below Jorgen crossed out (104/85)? If Yes can you tell me what all the notes say?
It is Niels mentioned here. My eyes are not good enough to read these notes, but I can see he is taken out of the roll after request.
and again, where are Mikkel and Peder?
Peder was already requested out of the roll in 1793, so he is still not available for the military in 1798. Mikkel I don´t know about yet.
About the ages of the brothers you must note that I didn´t find any informations on the BIRTH of Niels. It is not noted anywhere.
It was his baptism I found. If he was home baptised (we don´t know), he might have been quite "old" when he got his baptism confirmated at church.
The baptism you found might be that of Maren Kirstine from the census.
I don´t think he adopted her. He was just married to her mother and the writer of the census considered him as her father. Usually she would be mentioned as his stepdaughter.
146. 1823. Den 25de October, Maren Kirstine. Bødker Johan Vendelin oh kone Maren Hansdatter. Hiemmedøbt d. 26de. October, til kirke d. 30. Nov. (November) Skræder Niels Kraates kone bar det. og Ane Kirstine Rasmusdatter fra? Skibsbye stod hos. Laurs Christensen Smed, Brændevinskarl (he is making akvavit) Niels Kaas og Skomager Jens Bindslev.
I have family living in Hjørring so I know the area well and I was quite surprised to realize that I didn´t know of a parish called Hjørring parish. I knew of 3 churches in the city of Hjørring. Sankt Olai, Sankt Hans and Sankt Catharinæ. It happened that Hjørring sogn changed name from 1988-2004 to Sankt Catharinæ sogn. I am sure it is not only a danish thing - people moving from the rural areas to the bigger cities :-D
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
You have given me more to study. Thank you.
I've got to get my mind around the fact that births and baptisms can be quite a bit apart from one another. :-[
I did find something.
A Peder Jensen SORT in Rubjerg in 1834
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3127523 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3127523)
Census Year
1834
Name
Peder Jensen Sort
Gender Male
Age 64
County Hjørring
Hundred Vennebjerg
Parish Rubjerg
Placename Nordre Ruberg
Born date 1770
Born Place
House Role
Marital Status Married
Family No 51
Matr No et boelshus
Record No 269
Source reference 89
Business Boelsmand lever af sin jordlod
Household
Rec. no. Name Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
269 Peder Jensen Sort Male 64 1770 Married Boelsmand lever af sin jordlod
270 Maren Jensdatter Female 62 1772 Married Hans kone
271 Christen Pedersen Male 22 1812 Single
and his death in Rubjerg 1846:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685221 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685221)
Here's a Peder Jensen SORT in 1801 it says he's married but I don't see the wife?
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1519102
and 1840
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4271631
and Wife Maren dies 1844
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685226
Now if we can find more about this family ;)
and here's a Mikkel Jensen SORT but the birth year is way off of the military rolls
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3146110
I'm not quite understanding the "SORT" name. I thought I did when I connected the family to SORTFIELD in Rubjerg but Niels Jensen never lives in Rubjerg and the SORT name show us at a baptism long before Jorgen moves to Rubjerg. ??
After I clean up my excel chart a bit I'll see if I can attach what I've been putting together.
keep smiling,
Cyndi
Karin,
Here is someone, not part of this family, but because his name ends with SORT and I see Hjorring & Tornby in the record and it seems to be a very detailed record, I thought maybe you could look at it and see if it gives any clues to the SORT name? How did it come about?
I used to think it was because our family moved to Sortfelt (in Rubjerg) but I noticed that Niels was a SORT and he began in Tornby and then lived most his life in Hjørring, never moving to "Sortfelt" yet he was listed as Niels Jensen SORT in one of his daughter's baptism records (even before his brother moved to Sortfelt) and also listed that way in his second marriage record.
what are your thoughts?
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting10076/opslag80336
#163 Mikkel Pedersen SORT
thank you
Have a Happy day ;)
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
I have been searching for info about the name Sortfelt. The short form would be Sort.
I found a couple of books. The name Sortfelt is way older than from the persons we know as the Sort family. I´ll come back with info as soon as I have translated it.
The first book has a lot of info about Rubjerg sogn and also about the different farms/houses and the people who lived in them.
https://dis-danmark.dk/bibliotek/807024.pdf
I will translate every other line to English. (Note the name of the author).
Rubjerg sogn
Rubjerg Parish
I gamle dage
In the old days
En historisk topografisk beskrivelse
A historic and topografic description.
af (by) Severin Christensen Sortfeldt (note 1 below)
Hjøring
Hjørring
"Vendsyssel Tidende"s Bogtrykkeri
Printed at the newspaper Vendsyssel Tidende.
1923
Side 42
Page 42
Matr. Nr. 17 og 18. Sortfeldt. 1653 Søttfeld. Dette Sted blev opbygget af to Brødre, Peder Jensen og
Cadastral number 17 and 18. Sortfeldt. 1653 (the name was) Søttfeld. This place was rebuild by two brothers Peder Jensen and
Jørgen Jensen, fra Tornby som Fæstere til Kapellaniet i Hjøring ca. 1810. Senere er en stor Del af Jorden
Jørgen Jensen from Tornby as "fæstere" to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810. Later a big part of the land
bortsolgt, og der er nu kun et Hus tilbage.
was sold, and now (1923) only one house remains.
Matr. Nr. 24. Næskjærbro. Et gammelt Hus, Hede- cg Kærlod til Præstegaarden, nævnes 1744, og ejedes
Cadastral number 24. Næskjærbro. An old house, heath and small landspot to the Rectory, is mentioned 1744, and owned
dengang af Niels Jensen ved »Niskjær«. Paa Heden fandtes der ved Udskiftningen kun to Huse, Hedestedet
at the time of Niels Jensen at "Niskjær". On the Heath existed in (note 2 below) (app. 1758-app. 1810) only two houses, "Hedestedet"
og Niskjær.
and Niskjær
Note 1. Severin Christensen Sortfeldt (dead 1936). He was a teacher and a local historian.
Note 2. "Udskiftningen" was a long period in the Danish history. For hundreds of years farmers had inherited their ancestors land. When a farmer died his land was divided between his children and they each got a piece. When they died their children divided the land and their children each got a piece so the farmers ended up having a stribe of land here and there and everywhere in the parish. Some of the land they would grow together and some not. It was not an effective way of farming, so at a point it was decided to change it. Each farmer should end up having the same area of land but gathered together, not in stribes everywhere. It was a tough challenge. Some land was better than other land, and you should end up being able to grow the same amount as you used to.
I have also noted Mikkel Pedersen Sort but can´t place him yet.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Hi again. :)
From the same book as in answer #63 of this topic.
Rubjerg sogn
I gamle dage
En historisk topografisk beskrivelse
af Severin Christensen Sortfeldt (note 1 below)
Hjøring
"Vendsyssel Tidende"s Bogtrykkeri
1923
As you saw in my last post about the cadastral number 17 and 18 the name Sortfeldt was known as long ago as in 1653 (then the name was) Søttfeld.
People in this area was very superstitious (as probably the rest of the population at the time)
Page 17. https://dis-danmark.dk/bibliotek/807024.pdf
Sydfor Sortfeldstedet laa 'Hestebakkerne", og her kunne man møde den hovedløse Hest (Helhesten).
South of the "Sortfeltstedet" (= Sortfelt place) was "Hestebakkerne" (heste= horses, bakker = hills) and here you could meet the horse without a head (Helhesten = Whole horse)
From page 46.
Tells about fishing and how cod was caught. It seems like the water was divided in "squares". Those squares had different names, and the names might be very old. One of the squares are called "Sortegrund" other names were/are "Pinesquare", South east square", "The yellow square" etc.
I also went to the local library to lend a very used book about Hjørring Amt. It describes the different parishes and is called:
J. P. Trap
Danmark.
Femte Udgave.
Redigeret af
Niels Nielsen, Peter Shautrup,
Poul Engelstoft
Hjørring Amt
Bind VI,1
G.E.C. Gads forlag 1960
Rubjerg sogn.
Areal i alt 1955: 1536 ha.
Area all together 1955 : 1563 hektar. (Danish acres)
Befolkning
Population
1/10 1955: 481 indb. fordelt på 143 husstande.
Oct. 1th. 1955: 481 people in 143 household.
1801: 232 people
1850: 377 people
1901: 473 people
1930: 566 people
Tornby sogn.
Also from the book: J. P. Trap: Danmark.
Fra side 215 (og 216):
From page 215 (and 216)
"Areal i alt: 1955: 3032 ha.
The area (parish) all together was in 1955 3032 ha = hektar = (danish acres)
Befolkning:
Population:
1/10 1955: 867 indb. fordelt på 249 husstande.
Oct. 1th. 1955 : 867 persons in 249 households.
1801 : 532 (persons)
1850 : 761 (persons)
1901 : 782 (persons)
1930 : 831 (persons)
(Fra s. 216. "En stor del af sognet opfyldes af Tornby klitplantage, 528 ha hvoraf 331 ha er bevokset med
A large proportion of the parish is occupied by Tornby Klitplantage, 528 ha (danish acres) of which 331 ha is with
forsk. granarter, contortafyr og bjergfyr"
[/b]different sort of pinetrees.[/b]
https://www.google.com/search?q=tornby+klitplantage&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzk6TQoPHaAhXIVSwKHdc_A9UQsAQIVQ&biw=1600&bih=750
Also fra side 216:
Fra Tornby blev der i 1800t. drevet skudehandel på Norge, og der har været to pakhuse ved stranden.
In the 1800 hundred centurie trade by ships to Norway was made from Tornby and at the beach were two warehouses.
(Source: Klitgaard i AarbVends.1. 1915-16. 336.)
Af Tornby sogn var størstedelen 1625 ødelagt af sandflugt; 1631 var Øster Vadsager helt øde, Haven,
Of Tornby parish the majority was ruined 1625 by sandstorms; 1631 "Øster Vadsager" was completely deserted, "Haven"
Ravndrup, Heden, Vogishave og Sønder Krage, tidl. store gde, var da kun "tørre huse"; de to store gde
"Ravndrup", "Heden", "Vogishave" and "Sønder Krage", earlier large farm was then only "dry houses" (= probably didn´t give any surplus)
Nørre Krage og Ejstrup var delvis øde, og i Melby og Nørby var 8 gde kun "tørre huse". To Nejstgårde og to
"Nørre Krage" and Ejstrup was partly deserted, and in Melby and Nørby 8 farms was only "dry houses". Two farms (in?) "Nejstgårde" and two
Vadsagergårde så godt som øde ligesom 4 gde og 3 bol i Købsted. En del af det tilføgne genopdyrkedes dog inden næste sandflugtsperiode o. 1670.
farms in "Vadsagergård" almost deserted, likewise 4 farms and 3 small places in Købsted. A part of the sanded land was reclaimed as farmland before the next sandstorm around 1670.
As you can see, we are interested in people living a hard life in two small rural parishes up there in the northern part of Denmark.
The Sort name is definitely a nickname the brothers got from the Sortfelt farm in Rubjerg and it hung on them and their other brother as well. The big question is: Who lived there before they came and what made them move from Tornby to Rubjerg. Did they inherit (most likely) this place from a relative and who would that person be?
Tornby is quite an awesome place to be nowadays. Have a look: https://www.visitnordjylland.dk/tornby-strand-gdk642357 and https://www.tornbystrand.com/
Kind Regards
Karin
I`ll try to attach a map from Rubjerg from 1816. You can see the cadastral numbers 17 and 18 in the bottom of the map. A long stribe of land. (Found here: https://hkpn.gst.dk/ Sogne og herreds kort.
Karin:
wow, what would I do without you!
I know this is taking up a quite a bit of your time. It is greatly appreciated. I feel like I'm getting to know my ancestors in a way I never would have without you.
I love seeing the pictures of their land. Thank you.
The map was too blurry for me to be able to see the numbers and the link didn't work for the map. But thank you for your efforts.
Finding that book is exciting. Oh how I wish I could read Danish! Thank you for the time you have taken to translate some of it for me.
So, if I am understanding what you have shared, the boys may have the name SORT because their parents/grandparents owned the land in Sortfelt and the name followed them.
It looks like Jørgen, according to the military rolls, moved to Rubjerg in 1802.... one of the two brothers mentioned in the book who to rebuilt it. Maybe that is when he inherited the land. I have no clue really how to look up probates.
wouldn't the land have been passed down to his father first then to him?
I find it interesting that the book says Cadastral number 17 and 18 is the place the two brothers rebuilt and also is mentioned that Jens Nielsen owned Cadastral number 24.
So who owned 17 & 18 before Peder and Jørgen? I would have assumed they would have inherited their father's portion.
I also find it interesting that they were landowners but if I recall they died poor.
CitatSide 42
Page 42
Matr. Nr. 17 og 18. Sortfeldt. 1653 Søttfeld. Dette Sted blev opbygget af to Brødre, Peder Jensen og
Cadastral number 17 and 18. Sortfeldt. 1653 (the name was) Søttfeld. This place was rebuild by two brothers Peder Jensen and
Jørgen Jensen, fra Tornby som Fæstere til Kapellaniet i Hjøring ca. 1810. Senere er en stor Del af Jorden
Jørgen Jensen from Tornby as "fæstere" to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810. Later a big part of the land
bortsolgt, og der er nu kun et Hus tilbage.
was sold, and now (1923) only one house remains.
Matr. Nr. 24. Næskjærbro. Et gammelt Hus, Hede- cg Kærlod til Præstegaarden, nævnes 1744, og ejedes
Cadastral number 24. Næskjærbro. An old house, heath and small landspot to the Rectory, is mentioned 1744, and owned
dengang af Niels Jensen ved »Niskjær«. Paa Heden fandtes der ved Udskiftningen kun to Huse, Hedestedet
at the time of Niels Jensen at "Niskjær". On the Heath existed in (note 2 below) (app. 1758-app. 1810) only two houses, "Hedestedet"
og Niskjær.
and Niskjær
you mentioned Tornby being destroyed by sandstorms.
Was this area of Rubjerg destroyed the reason the 2 brothers rebuild it?
What is "fetters" to the priesthood?
CitatJørgen Jensen from Tornby is "fetters" to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810.
Thank you. I hope you have a great week,
Gratefully,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi. :)
Oh, you would do just fine without me, but thanks :)
I know you make your findings public, so it is also in my interest you get it as right as possible. You know how it is. Mistakes tend to live forever on the internet.
About the "Sort" name.
Because of the way people named their children back in those days, they didn´t have a lot of names to choose from. So we ended up having a lot of people with the same name for example Jens Nielsen, Niels Jensen etc. To distinguish between people with the same name it was common custom to give people a nickname. Often the nick name would be the place you lived, the village you came from or the trade you had. We can guess why they got their Sort nick name, but actually do not know when "our family" got it, we only know it followed them later.
We know that a Jens Nielsen also had a plot of land in Rubjerg parish, however we do not know if he is "our" Jens Nielsen (I think he is not).
I don´t know where I got this misspelling from. (Jørgen Jensen from Tornby is "fetters" to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810.). Fetters is not a Danish word. I meant to write "Jørgen Jensen from Tornby is fæster to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810".
You need to know the meaning of the word "fæster".
Back in the old days most of the land in Denmark was owned by the King, the church or the nobilities. It was not owned by "fæsters" that I should rather call peasants than farmers.
To be a "fæster" means you have some agreement with the landowner. You agreed to grow the land, keep the farmhouse well, do some (a lot of) labor at the mainhouse (like Fuglsig) and often to deliver some of what you grow on "your" land or pay a certain amount of money to the mainhouse.
It was not the land as such you inherited, it was the agreement and the responsibilities you inherited from your father- if the landowner would let you. If you owned the land yourself you would be called a "selvejer".
I´ll guide you through the link with the map https://hkpn.gst.dk/
In the green spot you choose:
Sogne og herredskort.
Sogn. You write Rubjerg and you get to choose Rubjerg, Vennebjerg H.
At the bottom two choises of "Sognekort" appears. (Only one works though).
At the very left the little word Vis (show) appears in blue.
Choose that one and you´ll get to the map.
Make it full screen.
In order to zoom in, you put the curser on the map and pull the curser a little.
Use the "navigator" and choose zoom out, also with the curser on the map.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
It is very helpful to learn the customs. I thank you again for your time in teaching me.
This will greatly enhance my understanding of my family throughout Denmark as I search for my other lines as well.
I think I know where the misspelling came from. What I copied to paste in the quote was "fæster" when I hit the button to post, it was changed to "fetters". It's got to be something in the translating programming. I just thought it translated it to English for me and that it would show correctly for you on your end. :-\
I'm sure that as we communicate here not everything will be totally correct because of this automatic translating.
But I must say that I am very grateful for the blessing of this translating program that makes it possible for us to communicate.
and I trust the automatic translating on this site far more than google translating. ;)
CitatI don´t know where I got this misspelling from. (Jørgen Jensen from Tornby is "fetters" to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810.). Fetters is not a Danish word. I meant to write "Jørgen Jensen from Tornby is fæster to the priesthood in Hjørring about 1810".
You need to know the meaning of the word "fæster".
Back in the old days most of the land in Denmark was owned by the King, the church or the nobilities. It was not owned by "fæsters" that I should rather call peasants than farmers.
To be a "fæster" means you have some agreement with the landowner. You agreed to grow the land, keep the farmhouse well, do some (a lot of) labor at the mainhouse (like Fuglsig) and often to deliver some of what you grow on "your" land or pay a certain amount of money to the mainhouse.
It was not the land as such you inherited, it was the agreement and the responsibilities you inherited from your father- if the landowner would let you. If you owned the land yourself you would be called a "selvejer".
Gratefully,
Cyndi
by the way, is there a way for me to mark this thread as a favorite or something so that I can easily find it later?
Right now while we are actively responding on it, it stays at the top of the forum, but there is so much you have taught me here I want to be able to access it in the future as well.
Hi again Cindi :)
You can mark this topic with the yellow star just as you would do with any other site you want as a favorite. I, myself, put one of the e-mails I get referring to answers in this topic in a special map called genealogy in my mail system.
I just have to share this with you, I found a newer map of Rubjerg and actually Sortfelt is marked her, so it still exists.
I´ll guide you to the view.
https://hkpn.gst.dk/
In the green spot you choose:
Sogne og herredskort.
Sogn. You write Rubjerg and you get to choose Rubjerg, Vennebjerg H.
In the middle you can choose:
Vis sogne og matrikelkort (in blue)
The rest is the same as I wrote in my last post:
Make it full screen.
In order to zoom in, you put the curser on the map and pull the curser a little (+and mark the area you want to see="Rubjerg city".)
Use the "navigator" and choose zoom out, also with the curser on the map.
You will find Sortfelt when you find the middle of "Rubjerg city" and the street called Bævervej (Beaver street). The street bend a little next to the spot.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
Thank you. I found the maps. Thank you.
I have not yet found the yellow star on this site. :( but I will save an email in my family history file.
I'm still putting together a chart showing their travels....I'm a visual person.
I tried to upload it but .xls files are not allowed on this site, maybe I'll try to send it to you through facebook messenger.
thank you and I hope you have a Happy week.
Keep Smiling,
Cyndi
Karin
I think I found a lot more on Peder. I posted some on facebook to see if someone else might translate them for me.
I surely overwork you ;)
the first link I posted led me to find so much more I decided I better post it all here, translated or not, to keep it all together.
I believe you were right about who Peder married, Anne Marie Poulsdatter.
She moves with him to Rubjerg where they have a child in 1802.
I'm still looking for more children and her death because Peder then has a child in 1812 with a Maren Jensdatter.
1st son - Jens Pedersen 9 April?? 1802 Birth or Baptism – son of Peder Jensen and Anne Marie Poulsdatter
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=42 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=42)
confirmation 1816
- http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=97 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=97)
2nd son - Christen Pedersen 1812 - first record on the page – son of Peder Jensen Sort and Maren Jensdatter 2nd wife
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=102 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=102)
And his birth (or baptism?) as well also first one on this page.
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57)
Ralph, who has helped me a great deal on facebook, suggested looking at this marriage record as possible marriage of Peder and Maren. What do you think? I don't know what it says, but it would have to indicate a 2nd marriage and it isn't in any area we've known this family to be.
Ralph: "Something to consider, although Rubjerg is not named, marriage November 19, 1808 - - http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=165287&side=41 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=165287&side=41)"
a Peder Jensen SORT born 1770 Married to Maren Jensdatter in Rubjerg
1834
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3127523 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3127523)
Maren and Peder 1840 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4271631 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4271631)
Maren Jensdatter 1844 dead age 71 Rubjerg husband Peder Jensen crossed off???? https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4271631
(https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid4271631)
Peder Widow 1845 but this says born in Rubjerg in 1770 (an error in birthplace? - He is the only brother we've found a birth/baptism record for)
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5324318 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5324318)
living with son
1811 There is a Peder Jensen in this record #4 but I can't read any other part of the record
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=54 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=54)
I searched the parish book from the birth of Jens Pedersen - with first wife 1802 to the birth of
Christen Pedersen with his 2nd wife 1812 and couldn't find a death for Anne Marie Poulsdatter or a marriage in the Rubjerg parish with Maren Jensdatter. Of course many of the records I couldn't make out what they said
Have a great day and thank you,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
The Peder Jensen who in 1808 gets married to a Maren Jensdatter in Jerslev is not interesting for us.
Though they have the same (very common) names, Jerslev is quite a long way away from Rubjerg and this Peder Jensen is a Gaardmand (=Gårdmand) in Sterup. He owns his own farm as a selvejer.
In the census 1834 Niels Jensen Sort is a Boelsmand lever af sin jordlod (Boel=small piece of land, he is living of it).
It is not likely he went from nothing in Rubjerg, to be a farm owner in Jerslev and then going back to Rubjerg to a small piece of land.
You found Peder Jensen:
Ao (=Anno=Year) 1811 d. 1st. Janr. døde Maren Andersdr der opholdt sig hos hends [hendes] svigersøn Peder Jensen i Ruuberg, og begr. d. 8de gl. (age) 71.
Year 1811 1th of Jan. Maren Andersdatter died who resided with her son in law Peder Jensen in Ruberg and buried on the 8th. age 71.
Kind regards :)
Karin
Hi Karin:
I'm working on Michel Jensen Sort today
This Census is very confusing to me. https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1550981 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1550981)
There is a Michel Jensen but birth year is too early.
Married to and Else Nielsdatter
with 2 children:
Inger Michelsdatter born in 1798 in Hjorring
Else Michelsdatter born 1799 in Hjorring
The only 2 children we know so far that Michel has.
HOWEVER
The birth records for Inger and Else show mother to be Kirsten Laursdatter not Else Nielsdatter. ????
Marriage: Dec 12, 1797 to Kirsten Laursdatter in Hjorring
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548412
Child Inger Marie born in Hjorring June 7 1798
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548394
Confirmation:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468202
Does this confirmation list parents?
Child Else born in Hjorring Oct 5 1799
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548396
Didn't find her confirmation.
I did find her getting married the same year her uncle Niels marries his 2nd wife.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468230
(https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468230)
What are your thoughts?
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
I´ll look at it.
I found this info.
Fuglsig Gods Jordebog. I think it is from 1774
The "Jordebog" is a book showing the land belonging the the Mainhouse called Fuglsig. Also the "value" of the land and who is the "fæster" of it. It also show what you had to pay yearly for being a "fæster".
Opsl. 15. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418250
I can´t be sure but I think this might be your Jens Nielsen. I think so, because his son is working at Fuglsig a little later, which indicates his father is a "fæster" at Fuglsig Gods.
Opsl. 20. Tornby sogn sogn. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418256
Jens Nielsen. Hartkorn. 6-2-1. Landegilde Penge 4.
Hartkorn, is kind of a measurement of the value of the land in the sense of how much you can grow on it. "Landegilde" is how much you must pay for growing this piece of land, here 4 which I would believe is 4 Rigsdaler.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Extra: Year? Jørgen Jensen in Rubjerg https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418265
Hi again :)
I´m absolutely not sure about the years when these papers were written.
I think they might be much older, like in 1742?. If so the Jørgen Jensen mentioned would be a lot older than your Jørgen Jensen. However it might be one of his ancestors, so I´ll put the info in here
Year unsure?. Start of book: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418271
Something happens to the land this Jørgen is the fæster of.
1742?. Rubjerg sogn. Jørgen Jensen. Hartkorn _-3-3-2. Herligheden til Lassens arvinger, bondeskylden til St. Olufs kirke. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418274
The house and ground is going to the heirs after Lassen, however the pay (from Jørgen) goes to St. Olufs church (probably Sanct Olai church)
Karin :)
Karin:
It is interesting that he leaves Rubjerg for St Olai where my Jørgen was and then my Jørgen goes back to Rubjerg. What would we need to do to follow the Jørgen Jensen in this book?
CitatI think they might be much older, like in 1742?. If so the Jørgen Jensen mentioned would be a lot older than your Jørgen Jensen. However it might be one of his ancestors, so I´ll put the info in here
Year unsure?. Start of book: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418271
so the suspense is killing me :) wha happened to the land?
Interesting note there was a "Lassen" as a witness at a couple of Jørgen's children.
CitatSomething happens to the land this Jørgen is the fæster of.
1742?. Rubjerg sogn. Jørgen Jensen. Hartkorn _-3-3-2. Herligheden til Lassens arvinger, bondeskylden til St. Olufs kirke. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418274
The house and ground is going to the heirs after Lassen, however the pay (from Jørgen) goes to St. Olufs church (probably Sanct Olai church)
very grateful,
cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
I am not sure I understand who you mean when you write "It is interesting that he leaves Rubjerg for St Olai where my Jørgen was and then my Jørgen goes back to Rubjerg".
I think the Lassen names as witnesses to the baptisms is a coincidence. Had they been the owners of the land a title like Sr. (Sir) or Hr. (Mister) would probably have been written before their name. These Lassen is probably "just" fæsters as well.
In answer #68 you got a link showing the land in Rubjerg. https://hkpn.gst.dk/
The "Jordebog" (plural= Jordebøger) shows where the "Main houses" had their land, the value of the crops they could expect to be grown there and the name of the "fæsters".
It often just mentions the name of the "fæster" and sometimes what they had to pay and when they got their "fæstebrev" (The paper that confirms the agreement).
It does not (Often) have a lot of personal informations on the individuel "fæster".
The "fæster" would for the most part stay in the place he got even if the ownership of the land are changed from one owner to another and at this time with the "udskiftning" (swap of land) going on the ownership shifted a lot.
Just for the fun of it I made a list of Main houses with land in Rubjerg, Tornby and some of Sct. Olai sogne.
Ålborghus-Åstrup-Børglum-Sejlstrup amter og Ålborg Stiftamt
Specifikationer over udstedte fæstebreve (My notes about the Jens Nielsens are nothing else than notes)
Odden. Fra opsl. 10.
Opsl. 14. Tornby:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291300
Nørre Eskiær. Fra opsl. 16.
Opsl. 17. Tornby:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291303
Linderumgaard. Fra opsl. 22.
Opsl. 27. Tornby:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291313
Bøgsted. Fra opsl. 39.
Opsl. 42.
Sct. Olufs sogn, Skibsby.
Skallerup sogn, Sønderlev.
Rubjerg sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291328
Asdal. Fra opsl. 55.
Opsl. 58. Tornby sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291344
Baggesvogn. Fra opsl. 111. 1776
Opsl. 114. Tornby sogn. _ _ By (Øe?)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291400
Seilstrup og Hastrupgaard. Fra opsl. 123.
Opsl. 123. Rubjerg sogns kirke.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291409
Opsl. 126. Rubjerg sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291412
Børglum Kloster. Fra opsl. 128.
Opsl.133. Rubjerg sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291419
Eskjær fra opsl. 236
Opsl. 239. Tornby sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291525
Fuglsig fra opsl. 241.
Opsl. 241+242. Skibsby:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291527
Opsl. 243. Tornby sogn + Jens Nielsen i Sønderlev.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291529
Nørre Eskær 1777 fra 252.
Opsl. 253. Tornby sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291539
Villerup fra opsl. 255.
Opsl. 256. Ruberg sogn
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291542
Opsl. 257. Skallerup sogn, Sønderlev.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291543
Fuglsig 1777 fra opsl. 278.
Opsl. 278+279+282. Skibsby. (Jens Nielsen)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291564
Opsl. 279. Brønderup.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291565
Opsl. 280+281. Skallerup sogn, Brønderup. En Niels Jensen, Fæstebrev d 16. okt. 1775. Forrige? fæstebrev d. 16. okt. 1755.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291566
Opsl. 283. Sønderlev, Skallerup sogn, Rubjerg sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291569
Kiærsgaard 1777. fra opsl. 283.
Opsl. 283. Tornby sogn, Kiøbsted.
Linderumgaard 1777 fra opsl. 362.
Opsl. 367. Tornby sogn.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291653
Børglum Kloster fra 392.
Opsl. 396. Sønderlev.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=20306159#304168,62291682
I havn´t had time to look at Michel Jensen yet.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Thank you Karin. I appreciate learning all these different records available.
I will look at all these links you've shared.
I thought it was interesting that a Jørgen Jensen (older than mine) left Rubjerg for St Olai and then my Jørgen went back to Rubjerg.
Gratefully,
Cyndi
I'm just posting some notes from previous posts here again to keep all of Jørgen's brother Michel's info together.
and I have more to add:
This census I'm pretty sure is my Michel although the birthdate is off by about 7 years. Mainly because of the name "SORT" and where he is living.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3146110 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3146110)
This 1834 Census shows Michel Jensen "SORT" married to Kirstine Laursdatter
And we have the births of two daughters to this union
CitatBaptism: Inger Marie (BK17482)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 22.
1798. Juni d. 7. Mickel Jensen og hustru Kirsten Laursdatter hiemmedøbt Inger Marie konf. d. 8. Juli. Q.F.: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267), Karen Nyegaards Datter. M. F.: Stephen Madsen, Niels Jensen (BK17288), Peder Jensen (BK17290).
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548394
Note: Kirsten Sørensdatter (BK17267) is the wife of Mickels brother Jørgen Jensen (BK17265)
Baptism: Else (BK17483)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 24.
1799. d. 5. okt. Mickel Jensen Sort og hustru Kirsten Laurs Datter, Else hiemmedøbt Conf. d. 3. Nov. Q.F.: Maren Nielsdatter Rebslager kone og Ane fra Wandsted? M. F.: Niels Jensen (BK17288) i Hiøring, Peder Jensen (BK17290) hos Købmand Løth og Christen Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548396
If that is my Michel then this one cannot be. This census is for 1801.
CitatMore about this family:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai sogn, Schibsbye, , 24, FT-1801, B8401
Michel Jensen 50 Gift Mand Inderster og hand inrouleret Matros (He is a sailor)
Else Nielsdatter 48 Gift hans Kone
Inger Michelsdatter 3 Ugift deres Barn
Else Michelsdatter 2 Ugift deres Barn
Without remembering the 1834 Census I thought maybe Kirstine had died and Michel remarried before 1801 since this record shows daughters with the same names, born in the same order, born in the same years and living in the same place. SO coincidental! However, this cannot be my family since Kirstine shows up in the 1834 Census.
More info I found on the daughters:
Inger Marie born June 7 1798Here is her Confirmation #16 https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468202 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468202)
I can not read the record so I don't know if this is Michel and Else's or Michel and Kirstine's daughter.
and
Else born Oct 5 1799Can't read all of this but I believe this is Michel and Kirstine's daughter Else's marriage record 1827 In Hjorring, Hjorring (then she disappears....can't find her in another census – did they always have to Report in censuses? This whole family seems to be able to avoid it.)
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468230 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn425/churchlisting140233/opslag15468230)
She is getting married the same year her uncle Niels marries his 2nd wife (same page).
Other info previously posted about Michel....just want to keep it all together:
CitatJørgens brother Mikkel Jensen (Sort) (BK17289)
Åstrup 1789. Hovedrullen. Tornby sogn. 94/104
(BK17289) 190. Michel Jensen - Tornbye - 22 (born 1767 +/-) - 62 - Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793)
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148
Michel baptised:
21. aug. 1768. No churchbook record available. Date known because of note from his communion.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194
Communion:
Tornby sogn. 1788. Konfirmeret Michel Jensen døbt Dom 12. p. Trinit [21. aug.]1768
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127176#170601,28645194
Marriage:
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 40.
1797. Dec. 12. Trolovet ung karl Mikkel Jensen (BK17289) fra Tiirup med Pigen Kirsten Laursdatter (BK17481) Forlovere Kiøbmand Klausen? og Snedkermester Svend Lund af Hiøring og xxvied d. 23. jan. 98.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548412
Shari, another sweet friend met on a similar forum, spent time last week teaching me how to follow the military rolls.
Here are Military rolls found for Michel Jensen:
1789 Hov 12=Tornby - 190 Tornbye 22 62 ? Sønderlef. (Ikke i rullen i 1793) Sønderlev is in Skallerup
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18201,1032148)
1793 Hov 16 = Skallerup - 90 S? 15 A 178 15=st Olai Tornbye 23 62 1/2 FL #12
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057234 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18279,1057234)
Going to 15= St Olai but by next Roll St Olai will be Lægd 28
1793 Tilg 15= St Olai A178 C134 H 9 C 134 Tornbye x24 23 62 1/2 FL #16
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18212,1034485 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18212,1034485)
1795 C Hov 9= Horne C134 E214 28 E 214 Tornbye 26 62 1/2 FL 28 _A178
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058375 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18284,1058375)
1797 E Tilg 28=St Olai E214 26 62 1/2 SL ???? 1794 FL #9 _134
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18215,1035248 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18215,1035248)
1798 F Hov 28=St Olai E214 151 29 62 1/2 A whole bunch said - NEED TRANSLATION
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059943 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18292,1059943)
1803 Hov 28=St Olai 151 94 Tornbye 33 62 1/2 O.O. 180?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061977 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=16481031#18301,1061977)
1806 Hov 28=St Olai 94 IS MISSING I think the previous roll was his last.
I think the only questions really left on Michel are:
1. Still do not know if there were more children
2. Don't have a death date and place for Michel
3. Don't have a death date and place for Kirstine
I did find the death of "A" Kirstine Larsdatter in 1801: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548406 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548406)
But it can't be Peder's wife because she is in the 1834 census.
Hi Cindi :)
If you look at the original census from 1801, I would think the writer made a huge mistake.
If you compare household no. 23 and 24, you´ll find two married couples with almost the same names (only difference is Niels and Mikkel). Both are Jensens and both wives are named Else Nielsdatter, both men are 50 and both the Else Nielsdatters are 48 years old. Michels age is off and we know his childrens mother is Kirsten Laursdatter.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/sogn432/census/census1801/opslag6097594
About the 1834 census.
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Sankt Olai, Schibsbyhede, Et huus, 76, FT-1834, C5563
Michel Jensen Sort 73 Gift Huusmand og dagleier
Kirstine Larsdatter 86 Gift Hans kone, almisselem
Mette Marie Christensdatter 12 Ugift Pleiedatter
The Kirstine Larsdatter age 86, is she the same Kirstin Laursdatter who is the mother of Michels children? If she is, her age must be wrong here. She would have been about 50 years old when she had her first child and 51 when her second child was born. She might be a quite a different person and not the mother of his children.
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 22.
1798. Juni d. 7. Mickel Jensen og hustru Kirsten Laursdatter hiemmedøbt Inger Marie konf. d. 8. Juli. Q.F.: Kirsten Sørensdatter, Karen Nyegaards Datter. M. F.: Stephen Madsen, Niels Jensen, Peder Jensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548394
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 24.
1799. d. 5. okt. Mickel Jensen Sort og hustru Kirsten Laurs Datter Else hiemmedøbt Conf. d. 3. Nov. Q.F.: Maren Nielsdatter Rebslager kone og Ane fra Wandsted? M. F.: Niels Jensen i Hiøring, Peder Jensen hos Købmand Løth og Christen Christensen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548396
Not much help figuring things out ;)
Inger Marie never gets married.
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, Algaden, 10, FT-1834, C5684
Wilhelm Borgen 60 Gift Forligelsescommiessair
Christine Marie Borgen 49 Gift hans Kone
Elisabeth Sophie Borgen 19 Ugift deres Børn
Hermandine Christiane Borgen 15 Ugift deres Børn
Nicoline Borgen 13 Ugift deres Børn
Andreas Borgen 12 Ugift deres Børn
Wilhelmine Borgen 9 Ugift deres Børn
Bendine Borgen 8 Ugift deres Børn
Inger Marie Mikkelsdatter 37 Ugift Tjenestepige
Inger Marie burried in Sankt Olai. feb. 26th. 1862. She died the 21.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123824#164089,27549496
Else have a child before marriage with. a Christen Lemberg before she marry Niels Christensen Blæsdahl.
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Olai Sogn. 1814FKVDJ-1841FKVDJ. Opsl. 60.
3. 31. Marts 1812. Ane Kirstine. Tieneste Pige Else Mikkelsdr. Udlagt som Barnefader Kristen Lemberg fra Hiøring. Hiemmedøbt d. 31. Martstil kirken d. 26. Maj. Faddere: Maren ___datter i Ny ??, Inger Marie Mikkelsdatter, Skotler? Kristen Kristensen, Mikkel Mortensen, Thomas ____ alle fra Skibsby.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17126072#168505,28295368
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjøring, Fiskebakken, 32 F2, FT-1834, C5684
Niels Christensen Blæsdahl 48 Gift Dagleier
Else Mikkelsdatter 34 Gift hans Kone
(Født 1821) Ane Kirstine Christensdatter 13 Ugift deres Børn
(Født 1828) Christen Mickael Nielsen 6 Ugift deres Børn
(Født 1831) Jens Christian Nielsen 3 Ugift deres Børn
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Fiskerbakken, , 304, FT-1840, C7343
Niels Christensen 53 Gift Arbeidsmand
Else Mikkelsdatter 42 Gift Hans kone
Christen Nielsen 2 Deres søn
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Fiskerbakken, , 235, FT-1845, C0550
Niels Christensen Blæsdal 54 Gift Arbeidsmand Hørmested sogn Hjørring amt
Else Mikkelsdatter 43 Gift Hans kone St Olai sogn Hjørring amt
Ane Christensdatter 24 Ugift Deres datter St Olai sogn Hjørring amt
Christian Michael Nielsen 7 Ugift Pleiebarn Hjørring
Jens Christian Nielsen 1 Ugift Pleiebarn Hjørring
Julius Frisenberg 1 Ugift Pleiebarn Hjørring
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Hjørring Kiøbstad, Fiskerbakken, 107, FT-1850, C0070
Niels Bloidal?? 64 Gift Arbeidsmand, Huusfader Lendum Sogn, Hjøring Amt
Else Mikkelsdatter 52 Gift hans Kone St. Olai S., Hjøring Amt
Stine Christensdatter 29 Ugift hans Steddatter St. Olai S., Hjøring Amt
Chresten Nielsen 13 Ugift hans egen Søn Hjøring
Jens Christian Lundbye 6 Ugift hans Pleiesøn Hjøring
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Fiskerbakken, 184, Forhuus, 337, FT-1855, D7014
Niels Christian Christensen Blæsdal 69 Gift Arbeidsmand. huusfader Hørmested Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Else Mikkelsdatter 56 Gift Hans kone Skibsbye, St. Olai Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Fiskebakken og Basingade No 184, , 169, FT-1860, D6397
Niels Christensen Blæsdal 74 Gift Huusfader. Arbeidsmd. Hørmested
Else Mikkelsen 61 Gift hans Kone St. Olai
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Fiskerbakken, Matr. nr. 158, 8, FT-1870, D7020
Else Michelsdatter 75 Enke Huusmoder Arbeiderske St. Olai Sogn, Hjørring A.
Else dies january 12th. 1890 and is buried the 19th. in Sankt Catrinæ sogn in Hjørring.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123824#164095,27550628
Kind Regard :)
Karin
Karin,
Thank you again for sharing so much of your time.
Michel's situation is very confusing to me. I think I will not focus too much on either of the censuses which may have lots of errors.
Also, I have noticed different spellings for different Michel's (Mikkel). I believe mine is spelled "Michel". Would that be pretty consistent or are the names interchangeable?
I'm just going to use the military records, the marriage record and the children's birth records and put what I do know into familysearch and maybe eventually I'll come across the death dates
I'm currently working on transfering all this wonderful information you've helped me find for all the brothers into familysearch
refering to Answer #76
CitatFuglsig Gods Jordebog. I think it is from 1774
The "Jordebog" is a book showing the land belonging the the Mainhouse called Fuglsig. Also the "value" of the land and who is the "fæster" of it. It also show what you had to pay yearly for being a "fæster".
Opsl. 15. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418250
I can´t be sure but I think this might be your Jens Nielsen. I think so, because his son is working at Fuglsig a little later, which indicates his father is a "fæster" at Fuglsig Gods.
Opsl. 20. Tornby sogn sogn. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418256
Jens Nielsen. Hartkorn. 6-2-1. Landegilde Penge 4.
Hartkorn, is kind of a measurement of the value of the land in the sense of how much you can grow on it. "Landegilde" is how much you must pay for growing this piece of land, here 4 which I would believe is 4 Rigsdaler.
I've been looking at the links you posted trying to understand them. I don't really.
I'm a little confused with OPSL 20
Is this record showing Jens Nielsen in Tornby? and what is the connection to Opsl 15? Fugslig is in St Olai isn't it?
Will you teach me about these books. How are you connecting Jen's son to Fuglsig from this record?
looking at your notes I'm also wondering...
IF it is my Jens Nielsen then he would have moved to Skisbsby by 1777? (which would make sense where the family seems quite established in that area)
Then you've listed Brønderup. That is where Jen's son Niels is listed living in the 1789 Military rolls
Then you also list Sønderlev Skallerup . Michel is recorded, in the rolls, as residing in Sønderlev and Peder is recorded as residing in Fuglsig and reported working in Sønderlev in the 1789 Military record.
In 1793 Michel is residing in Skallerup.
(oh by the way, I found a lot of the military rolls. I will send you my excel file, through facebook, with all I found).
CitatExtra: Year? Jørgen Jensen in Rubjerg https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418265
Going back a few pages I see a 1742 and forward a few pages another 1742 and a few more a 1747 so I don't think this could be my Jorgen.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418263
Do you mind if I copy and post what you found in the book in answer #63 on to Jorgen and Peder's pages on Familysearch?
Thank you kindly,
Cyndi
Karin
Hi again ;)
I'm studying again today what you posted in #76
Can you tell me what each of the columns are in these "Main House" records?
So do the owners of the "Main houses" own land all over the county? So the owner of the "Main house" in Tornby also owns land in St. Olai and Rubjerg and it's all recorded under the "main house"?
thank you again for taking time to teach me all the different records available. ;)
gratefully,
Cyndi
Karin,
Just want to document some more thoughts here.
I found a death record for Inger Nielsdatter (presumed mother of Jørgen and the 3 brothers) and it says that she was living with her son Peder Jensen SORT. So that's pretty convincing to me.
Inger Nielsdatter - Maarup Sogn died 1817 - 80 Years old (birth about 1737) http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=150&height=775
(http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=150&height=775)
Since she was found in Maarup Sogn I looked in Maarup for her husband and found this Jens Nielsen who died in 1825 at 89 years old.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn428/churchlisting134735/opslag14566580 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn428/churchlisting134735/opslag14566580)
but his record doesn't really say anything about him....and I'm assuming this couldn't really be Inger's husband because why would she be living with her son Peder if Jens was still alive?
Now that we have a date for Inger's death, is there a way to find a probate?
Last Known place for Inger and Jens to have lived was Nørre Tornby - 1801 Census
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557291 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1557291)
then Inger in Maarup in 1817 so sometime between 1801 and 1817 they moved to Maarup or Rubjerg.
Is there a way to follow where Jens Nielsen goes in those Main House records?
Thank you
Cyndi
Karin,
It's me again ::)
another question
answer #49
Why is Ane Marie listed as "Bødkers" in this birth record
CitatBaptised: Inger Marie (BK17298)
Hjørring A., Vennebjerg H., Sankt Hans og Olai sogn. 1780FKVD-1804FKVD. Opsl. 16.
28. juli. 1793. Niels Jensen og Ane Marie Bødkers. Inger Marie. Q. f. Maren, Søren Andersens datter i Giurup, Marie Andersdatter ibidm. M. f.: Christen Andersen hos Simon Skrædder, Mikkel Jensen t. i Sønderlev, Peder Jensen t. i Fuglsig. Intr. d. 25. aug.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548388
I'm pretty sure this Ane Marie Bødkers is Ane Marie Thomasdatter from looking at the witnesses compared to the other children and this census that shows Inger Marie born in 1793 - but where does the "Bødkers" come in?
CitatHjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 116,, 140, FT-1801, B8161
Niels Jensen Sort 35 Married Male Daytime Owner
Ane Marie Thomasdatter 32 Married His wife
Dorthe Nielsdatter 10 Unmarried Your child
Inger Marie Nielsdatter 8 Ugift Your child
Bodil Sophie Nielsdatter 4 Ugift Your child
Karen Nielsdatter 2 Ugift Your child
Thomas Nielsen 1Use your child
thanks,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
I´ll try to answer some of your questions starting with the ones from #80.
You wrote: "I'm a little confused with OPSL 20. Is this record showing Jens Nielsen in Tornby? and what is the connection to Opsl 15? Fuglsig is in St Olai isn't it? Will you teach me about these books. How are you connecting Jen's son to Fuglsig from this record?"
Answer: Usually, when you were a "fæster", you would stay at exactly the same place often your whole life. However the land you had belonged to someone else (The Main houses) and due to the "udskiftningen" (swap of land) occurring at this time your land might be owned by several different owners and you as a "fæster" would "follow" the land. Because you as a "fæster" "followed" the ownership of the land, so did your sons. The Main house was interested in you being able to handle your land well, but if you had many sons or sons with special skills the Main house could require your sons to work somewhere else and I think they often would. And yes, all info about the land would be recorded to the Main house who owned it. The name "Jordebog" is directly translated Land book :-D
Just to illustrate how "bad" it could be to be a landowner, I´ll show you an old topic of mine. It answers another of your questions as well. Yes, the nobilities could have many pieces of land in the same parish, county or all over the country. Just look at this: Answer #22, #23, #24. https://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php?topic=123085.0
About the columns in "Main House" records.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21026842#330207,66418252
The top, from the left side.
1.
Stift: Is a collection of parishes belonging to the same church area under a Bishop
og Herred. It´s like a jurisdiction. https://www.dis-danmark.dk/kort/korthjor.htm
2.
Sognet: the parish
3.
Nye matriculs No. (=matrikel nummer): New cadastral number
4.
Stæder (=Steder): (Name of) Places
Byers: (Name of) Cities (or villages).
og Beboernes navne. Name of habitants.
5.
Hartkorn: Actually means hard corn (corn for making bread), earlier a barrel hartkorn was a measurement for the value of farming land (a combination of size and performance). In the long period, where payment was made as trade swaps of concrete goods it was necessarily to have a common measurement. It was decided to compare all goods with the value of "the hard corn". Hartkorn was measured in barrels. One barrel = 8 "skæppe" = 32 "fjerdingkar" = 96 "album". The smallest measurement was 1/4 album also called a Penning, it was 2 "favne" (or 2x3 = 6 alen on each side, equals 36 square "alen". https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartkorn
Below the Hartcorn the different signs for those measurements are shown for tønde (barrel), skæppe, fjerdingkar and album.
6.
Penge (= money): Divided into spaces for Rigsdaler, Mark and Skilling. http://www.thorshoj.dk/moenter_og_sedler.htm
7.
Landgilde af: The tax the fæster had to pay to the landowner.
Divided into (and below the same measurement as under Hartkorn (hard corn)):https://moelleforum.dk/files/De_danske_kornsorter.pdf
Rug: Rye
Byg: Barley (?)
Haure (=havre): Oats.
8.
og andre specier: (Other things).
Below: Heens, Sviin, giæs, hands ?. Chickens, pigs, geese, his? ??
(I can see some af them are asked to deliver butter)
Finding Inger living with her son Peder is a great finding. The Jens Nielsen you found might be yours also. It was quite common to move to live with a son when you got too old to work as a "fæster".
Often a son would take over the fathers fæste, but if no one was interested in doing that and they had managed to get a more profitable "fæste", the parents would come and live with one of them.
If we can figure out which Main house Peders fæste belonged to, that is where we would have to look for a probate.
Your question from #83.
I don´t know why Anne Marie has Bødker mentioned here. Is her father a Bødker? Or she might have been a maid working for a Bødker.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Hi again :)
I was a little too fast - twice.
First I have to correct my English. Hardkorn is hard grain, not corn as you know it :)
About Inger Nielsdatters death. Her burriel is from the Rubjerg churckbook. She is nor in Maarup.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn428/churchlisting134735/opslag14566580
The Jens Nielsen you found in Maarup is not yours. This one was a former farm owner in Vidstrup. He is probably this guy:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Maarup, Vistrup bye, , 1, FT-1801, B4694
Jens Nielsen 63 Gift huusbonde bonde og gaardbeboer
Mette Sørendatter 54 Gift hans kone
Søren Jensen 24 Ugift deres børn enroull matros
Niels Jensen 20 Ugift deres børn enroull. matros på flaaden
Andreas Jensen 15 Ugift deres børn
Maren Jensdatter 12 Ugift deres børn
Anne Christensdatter 46 Ugift tjenestepige
Where did you find Peder Sort in Maarup?
Kind Regard :)
Karin
Karin,
Thanks for helping me understand the records and the customs of Denmark.
oh goodness. I don't remember now what I was looking at late last night that made me think that Inger was found in Maarup. :-[
I see I have the link for her in Rubjerg. I guess I'm getting so many notes I can't keep them straight.
I don't recall Peder in Maarup except when I had a brief brain lapse last night and posted his mother's death in Maarup documenting she was living with Peder. :-[
I believe Peder has been in Rubjerg since 1801 or 1802.
We have this marriage for a presumed - 1st wife - Anne Marie Poulsdatter married in Hjorring (or St Catharine?) 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17123820#164083,27548414)
They must have moved between 1801 and 1802 when we find the birth of a child for Peder Jensen and Anne Marie Poulsdatter in
Rubjerg in 1802
I do not have the translations for these records yet but I think I see a Jorgen Sort as a witness which would tie this Peder to the Sorts.
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=42 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=42)
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=97 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166797&side=97)
and in 1834 he is still in Rubjerg where we find him in this census
CitatCitation
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3127523
Notes
1834 census in Rubjerg Hjorring
Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
269 Peder Jensen Sort Male 64 1770 Married Boelsmand lever af sin jordlod
270 Maren Jensdatter Female 62 1772 Married Hans kone
271 Christen Pedersen Male 22 1812 Single
I have yet to find the marriage record for Peder and Maren Jensdatter nor have I found the death of his 1st wife.
I do have the birth record of a child between Peder and Maren and I have Maren's death record and Peder's death record.
child's birth record: http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57)
Death of Maren Jensdatter March 27 1844 age 71
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685226 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685226)
23 Jeb 1846 Death of Peder in Rubjerg - from SORTFELT age 76
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685221 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn430/churchlisting135513/opslag14685221)
CitatIf we can figure out which Main house Peders fæste belonged to, that is where we would have to look for a probate.
How do we figure this out?
would a census help?
I have a census for Peder's son Christian in Ruberg Bye. Would he have taken over for Peder?
I guess his residence could have changed between 1817 when Inger dies and 1845 when this census was taken.
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5324318 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5324318)
CitatYour question from #83.
I don´t know why Anne Marie has Bødker mentioned here. Is her father a Bødker? Or she might have been a maid working for a Bødker.
So this is probably a name attached to her like SORT was attached to the Jensen's? What is a Bødker?
I'm grateful for your help. Thank you for sharing so much of your time,
Cyndi
Karin,
me again ;)
Someone on Facebook just transcribed these records (I still don't understand them because they are not translated just transcribed)
I guess what I thought was Jorgen sort is someone else :( which means maybe my Peder didn't marry Anne Marie Poulsdatter. ??
I don't recognize anyone in the list of witnesses. None of them are the same as in the other brothers.
However, the confirmation says they are from Sortfeldt.
Citat1. The birth record
1802 den 9 April føde Peder Jensøn og Hustrue Anne Marie Poulsdatter 1 Søn som blev Hiem døbt den 10 ditto kaldet Jens, var til Kierke den 2 Maij. Faderne
Anders Thopsøe Jørgensen og Jens Paask fra Hiøring
Inger Poulsdatter fra Hiøring og Anders Thomsens Pige Anne
Introduceret 23 Maij
2. The confirmation record
1816 #4
Jens Pedersen, Ruberg
Parents: Peder Jensen og Hstr. Anne Marie Poulsdatter, Huusbønderfolk paa Sortfeldt i Ruberg
Født: 1802, d. 9. Apr.
Knowledge and Behaviour: Good.
Hi Karin,
I found something.
Remember what you found on Peder?
CitatThe census 1801 is a little better. Here I can find a Anne Marie Poulsen, married, but her husband not mentioned at the same address.
However....Huh? Just next door, a married Peder Jensen lives without his wife. Might his age here (51) be wrong? Did the writer make a mistake?
Anne Marie Poulsdatter in census 1801:
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 91, , 117, FT-1801, B8161
Maren Andersdatter 63 Enke Tilleje boende Haandarbejde
Anne Marie Poulsdatter 35 Gift Hendes datter
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897191
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Østergade 90, , 115, FT-1801, B8161
Jens Jørgensen 53 Gift Husbonde Avlsbruger
Woldborg Pedersdatter 63 Gift Hans kone
Peder Jensen 51 Gift Tjenestefolk (fejlskrivning for 31 år?)
Ane Cathrine Andersdatter 19 Ugift Tjenestefolk
Apellone Hansdatter 10 Ugift Tjenestefolk
og https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=26146#26146,2897190
I think I found Peder. It's not the one who is 51
Instead looks like he is working for this family:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1519102 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1519102)
CitatCensus Year
1801
Name
Peder Jensen Sort
Gender Male
Age 29
County Hjørring
Hundred Vennebjerg
Parish Hjørring
Placename Torvegaden 28
Born date 1772
Born Place
House Role Tjenestefolk
Marital Status Married
Family No 24
Matr No
Record No 131
Source reference 50
No of Marriages 1
Business Tjenestefolk
Household
Rec. no. Name Sex Age Born Year Marital Status Information
119 Christen Thomsen Høgsted Male 42 1759 Married Husbonde Kjøbmand
120 Æhlegaard Vilhelmine Bang Female 37 1764 Married Hans kone
121 Thomas Christian Høgsted Male 13 1788 Single Deres barn
122 Rasmus Bang Høgsted Male 12 1789 Single Deres barn
123 Hans Christian Høgsted Male 10 1791 Single Deres barn
124 Jens Nicolaii Høgsted Male 9 1792 Single Deres barn
125 Johannes Peter Høgsted Male 6 1795 Single Deres barn
126 Laurits Høgsted Male 4 1797 Single Deres barn
127 Ane Høgsted Female 3 1798 Single Deres barn
128 Carl Høgsted Male 1 1800 Single Deres barn
129 Christen Henrichsen Mølbach Male 27 1774 Single Tjenestefolk Informator
130 Thomas Andersen Male 22 1779 Single Tjenestefolk Kramboddreng
131 Peder Jensen Sort Male 29 1772 Married Tjenestefolk
132 Anders Svendsen Male 26 1775 Married Tjenestefolk
133 Christen Jacobsen Bang Male 44 1757 Single Tjenestefolk
134 Ane Cathrine Pedersdatter Female 20 1781 Single Tjenestefolk
135 Margrethe Jensdatter Female 20 1781 Single Tjenestefolk
136 Kirsten Marie Michelsdatter Female 27 1774 Married Tjenestefolk
Data obtained from Danish Demographic Database Ref. DDA-7535, Kipno. B8161. Parish: Hjørring Købstad. Hundred: Vennebjerg. County: Hjørring. Record no. 131 of 744. Svend-Erik Christiansen. View documentation of the data entry. View the original dataentry record at Danish Demographic Database on http://ddd.dda.dk/ddd_en.htm
I wonder how far from this is from where is wife was staying.
They were married Oct 31 1800. Could he have had obligations with the other family to finish up the reason they were living in different places for the Census. What is the date of the Census?
Hi Cindi. :)
Yes, there he is. :D
The info is from the 1801 census. http://ddd.dda.dk/asp/alle_opl.asp
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Hjørring Købstad, Torvegaden 28, , 24, FT-1801, B8161
Christen Thomsen Høgsted 42 Gift Husbonde Kjøbmand
Æhlegaard Vilhelmine Bang 37 Gift Hans Kone
Thomas Christian Høgsted 13 Ugift Deres barn
Rasmus Bang Høgsted 12 Ugift Deres barn
Hans Christian Høgsted 10 Ugift Deres barn
Jens Nicolaii Høgsted 9 Ugift Deres barn
Johannes Peter Høgsted 6 Ugift Deres barn
Laurits Høgsted 4 Ugift Deres barn
Ane Høgsted 3 Ugift Deres barn
Carl Høgsted 1 Ugift Deres barn
Christen Henrichsen Mølbach 27 Ugift Tjenestefolk Informator
Thomas Andersen 22 Ugift Tjenestefolk Kramboddreng
Peder Jensen Sort 29 Gift Tjenestefolk
Anders Svendsen 26 Gift Tjenestefolk
Christen Jacobsen Bang 44 Ugift Tjenestefolk
Ane Cathrine Pedersdatter 20 Ugift Tjenestefolk
Margrethe Jensdatter 20 Ugift Tjenestefolk
Kirsten Marie Michelsdatter 27 Gift Tjenestefolk
If you use google maps, you can se they are not living that far away from each other. At the time it was not uncommon to live in with your employer. This guy Høgsted is a Grosser and probably had a buzy store in the middle of the city. He must have been well off as, he in his household ,have a teacher (Informator) employed for his kids.
Hjørring city has changed over the years but anyway take a look at the maps. (Changes of the streets http://vendsysselwiki.dk/index.php/Torvegade,_Hjørring)
Torvet:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Torvet,+9800+Hjørring/@57.4613975,9.981771,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4648ce71d53edcf1:0x69b092c986e8cc97!8m2!3d57.4613975!4d9.9839597
Østergade 91.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Østergade+91,+9800+Hjørring/@57.457398,9.9923247,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4648ce742eb4f937:0xeb40ba1c2ca82d34!8m2!3d57.457398!4d9.9945134
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
Thank you for the extra tips on the areas my ancestors are from.
The links didn't work for me but I think I figured out google maps.
A little more info I found on this family:
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=170607&side=99
(http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=170607&side=99)
confirmed April 6 1755
#5 under 1755 is Jens Nielsen SORT. Now we know for sure that the Jens Nielsen, father of the 4 boys we've been following, was the one born in 1838 in Tornby.
Jens Nielsen Sort was baptized Dom 1 p. Trin 1738, the 1st Sunday after Trinity 1738 - June 8, 1738.
ALSO http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=170607&side=99
(http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=170607&side=99)
under 1758 is his wife Ingierd Nielsdatter, baptized Palm Sunday 1743 - April 7, 1743.
and then I'm pretty sure I have Peder's 2nd wife's death
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../churchl.../opslag14685226 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/.../churchl.../opslag14685226)
but it is confusing. Jensen is crossed out and replaced by Christensen's
given that in the 1845 census Peder now shows up as a widow
and because of the record of their son Christen Pedersen being born to Peder Jensen and Maren Jensdatter
http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57 (http://ao.salldata.dk/vis1.php?bsid=166795&side=57)
and because Sortfelt is in this death record....I'm pretty sure this is her.
would you have any idea why Jensen would be crossed out?
So grateful,
cyndi
Karin,
sorry, the questions just keep coming ;)
How do I find this actual probate record?
CitatThe family members are listed in the probate records:
Karen Jensdatter died 1760
08.01.1761 Karen Jensdatter i Tornby, død 08.11.1760 Fol. 142b
Niels Michelsen
Arvinger: Enkemanden [Heirs: the widower
Børn: Jens Nielsen, 22 år [children]
Anne Nielsdatter, 21 år
Maren Nielsdatter, 20 år
Michel Nielsen, 13 år
Johanne Nielsdatter, 13 år
Peder Nielsen, 9 år
Thank you,
Cyndi
Karin,
our facebook friends found the actual probate for Karen Jensdatter. 8)
Wife of Niels Michelsen
and mother of Jens Nielsen, father of the 4 Jensen boys
it is about 3 pages long.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357428 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357428)
can you tell me what the large headings are that begin on the second page?
and what the 3 different columns with #'s are?
thank you
Cyndi
Hi Cindi
The large headings in the probate are the names for the different areas in the home.
I Daglig Stuen = dagligstue =livingroom.
Paa et Senge Sted = On a sleeping place (probably an alkove)
https://www.google.com/search?q=alkove&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Wf30esvkU-00jM%253A%252Cr0TYlMA_G4-tYM%252C_&usg=__q7x7bZo0ZsUkEFX6ZZf8ShyLnjQ%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA58Wo_6bbAhVDWiwKHS-NDkUQ9QEIKDAA&biw=1600&bih=751#imgrc=Wf30esvkU-00jM:
Ude deres Anden Stue = In their other living room.
Ude et Liige(?) Sengested = also an Alkove.
I buret = small room for food storage.
I kiöckenet og Brögerset = Kitchens (Bryggers = kitchen where you do the "dirtier" kitchen work.
i Gaarden = in the yard.
Boster = (I non´t know this danish word) Probably the stabel as two black horses are mentioned.
Faar Creathur = Sheep creatures.
Svin=Swine
I think the priest made a mistake when he crossed her name out and called her Christensdatter.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin,
interesting. So in the probates for some people they list every little thing throughout their home while others don't have a probate at all?
Thanks for teaching me,
Cyndi
for the record I'm attaching 4 .doc files. One of each of the brothers.
I have most everything on them.
I will have to upload them one at a time.
This first one is Jorgen
thanks to all who have helped in putting this family together.
Cyndi
attaching .doc file on Niels
attaching .doc file on Michel
attaching .doc file on Peder
Karin,
I just wanted your thoughts on this...
I believe we may already have these probates listed in this post but I learned some new information from them today.
someone read the probate for Søren Christensen Krag and noted that
Citat"Jørgen Jensen took over the 'faeste' by promising to marry the widow Kirsten Michelsdatter's unmarried daughter, Kirsten Sørensdatter."
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357605 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357605)
Interesting.
Was he interested in her or was that just a requirement for him to take over the land lease?
was this like an arranged marriage?
how does this fit in with what you found in the Land records?
I thought Jorgen would have been taking care of the land HIS father had, but it looks like he took on his father in law's lease instead. (maybe the two other boys, Niels and Michel, who stayed in Skibsbye/Hjorring kept their father's lease, which if I remember right, had something to do with Fugslig.)
Can we use the main house records you told me about to find out about Søren Christensen Krag and this lease talked about in his probate?
If I remember right you found something where the two brothers went back to rebuilt Sortfelt?
Looks like jørgen took over for his father in law in 1792 (date of the probate) then moved to Rubjerg around 1802/1803. Would he have done something to lose the lease he inherited? Or was the Main House owner just transferring him to a new location that he also owned?
Would there be some connection to his mother in law dying that opened the way for him to move?
According to the probate or Søren Christensen Krag, he was to provide for his mother in law.
He moved to Rubjerg a couple of years after his mother in law died.
I believe we already have this probate but to keep it with this info I'm posting again.
1801 Kirstin's probate:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357685)
After I put together all I have on Jens Nielsen, Jørgen's father, I think I will start another post searching for his death record and hopefully a probate for him and see if that might lead us to more information.
Jens Nielsen born 1738 in Tornby. Still in Tornby in 1801.
or by the way. here is some more information on the Jens Nielsen (is this the one in your family line?)
that married Kirsten Michelsdatter after their spouses died. Maybe you already have this but in case you don't:
After his 2nd wife Kirsten Michelsdatter died, looks like he probably married again, a Johanne Jensdatter, Oct 10 1801:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=164083#164083,27548471 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=164083#164083,27548471)
And Jens Nielsen died in 1803. The probate shows that he had no children, so his siblings or their children inherited him together with the widow, Johanne Jensdatter:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357696 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193003#193003,32357696)
Cyndi
"Hi Cindi :)
Thank you for sharing your findings. I have a copy of them now. The attachments onthis site will unfortunately only stay for a short period.
I´ll try to answer some of your questions but some of them your guessing is just as good as mine.
Citat:
"Jørgen Jensen took over the 'faeste' by promising to marry the widow Kirsten Michelsdatter's unmarried daughter, Kirsten Sørensdatter."
and
Was he interested in her or was that just a requirement for him to take over the land lease?
was this like an arranged marriage?"
Well. Good questions.
We will never know how they felt about each other. Jørgen not being the eldest son might have caused him and the family to look elsewhere for a fæste for him, if the fæste his father had was not good enough to provide for multiple families, and it probably wasn´t.
When a man with a fæste died, it was important to find a man who could take over and do the hard labour in the fields. We lost the knowledge of how they was doing it. The people at the main house might have known both parties and introduced them to each other but we don´t know. It was like an arranged marriage and it was quite common. You can find a lot of examples of an elderly widows marrying a lot younger guy. Sometimes they would be somehow related and it was a way to keep a good fæste "in the family".
Citat:
"Can we use the main house records you told me about to find out about Søren Christensen Krag and this lease talked about in his probate?"
Yes, you might be able to find something in the main house record. I don´t remember how far back the books from Fuglsig goes.
Citat:
"Looks like Jørgen took over for his father in law in 1792 (date of the probate) then moved to Rubjerg around 1802/1803. Would he have done something to lose the lease he inherited? Or was the Main House owner just transferring him to a new location that he also owned"
and
Citat:
"Would he have done something to lose the lease he inherited? Or was the Main House owner just transferring him to a new location that he also owned?"
We can´t know. It was a time when a lot of main houses switched or sold their land. If that was the case, the main house can have transferred him to the other fæste but we will never know.
I have been looking into my relative. He is a Mickel Nielsen Sommerdal, but he arrives at Skibsby about 1825 so he is not the same who is a witness to a marriage.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
PS. Have you noticed you actually have Jørgen Jensens signature?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193002#193002,32357607
Karin,
CitatThe attachments on this site will unfortunately only stay for a short period.
will we just lose the attachments or will this whole thread be deleted eventually?
Thank you for pointing out Jørgen's signature.
I was looking closer at the document. Does Jørgen's signature finish off the document or does it continue to the next page?
On the next page I notice Aalborg, 13 (a couple of times) Fuglsig, and 30. If this is still part of the same probate can you tell me a little of what is being said there?
Thanks for all your help. I wouldn't have as much as I do if it weren't for you sticking with me ;)
Cyndi
Hi Cindi. :)
You are welcome. :)
This thread will stay "for ever", only the attachments will disappear.
The probate first tells the usual stuff. Mai 19th. 1792 was 30 days after Søren Christensen Krag i Skibsby, husfæster (fæster of house) of Fuglsig Gods died.
The top of the next page is hard to read but it would typically mention who the Person left behind and who would be the guard for the widow, the daughters and under age children. Here I can see Maren Sørensdatter married to Niels Pedersen i Trædholt in Bjergby parish mentioned. Kirsten Sørensdatter who is going to marry Jørgen Jensen Husfæster i Skibsby. The guardian is Christen Nielsen Boelsmand in Skibsby. Christen Sørensen og Christen Christen helped the court make sure everything was valued and in order and shared after the law.
As far as I can see Kirsten does not want anything concerning the fæste as it goes to her daughter and Jørgen Jensen. So it doesn´t mention the stuff in the house as we saw in the last probate we looked at.
However here we get some other infos as it is written down, that should she want to remarry, she would have to leave the house and also that she would be entitled to get a good cow, a sheep, her bed and a red skin coffin, a nice set of clothes (usually the clothes she used when going to church) along with her. It also gives directions on how Kirsten and Jørgen should behave towards each other.
Actually you also have Kirsten Michelsdatters signature. The probate ends with Jørgens signature + the two lines below.
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Thank you Karin :)
Karin,
would you mind looking at this probate for Peder's wife Anne Marie Poulsdatter?
we can't find her death record but another friend did find this probate.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457334 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457334)
Does it document her death date or just when the probate began?
Is there only one son mentioned?
Is there any information in this to help with understanding this family better?
and can you tell me where the probate ends?
I see mention of a Jorgen Jensen in a couple of places on this page. If it is still part of her probate, is this Peder's brother being mentioned?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457337 (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457337)
thanks so much,
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
The probate is started November 28th. 1870. After the rules she would have been dead 30 days before. She must have died October 28th.
The couple had this one son Jens Pedersen.
Next page. https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457335
As far as I can see it doesn´t belong to the probate. (The page is the same as the prevoius but covered with a piece of paper)
The probate lists what she left behind to her husband and son and also what she owed to her son and Kirsten Thomasdatter i Rubjerg. From the estate her husband will get the money back he had spend for her funeral before sharing.
Jørgen Jensen is mentioned along with the others because they appear in court, Jørgen as a guardian for the son Jens, who was under age. It tells that Jens Paaskesen is married to Anne Maries sister. I don´t know if you knew already?
The probate ends after the signatures, and the date below, Februarii 20th. 1811, must be the date the probate was ended in court.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/billedviser?bsid=193623#193623,32457337
Kind Regards :)
Karin
Karin
once again, thank you :)
I did not know about Anne Marie Poulsdatter's sister. Thank you
I sure with there wasn't such a far break between censuses 1801 - 1834
I did find this on her sister:
INGER Poulsdatter found in 1801 and 1834:
1801 jens and Inger are single working in the same household - https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1518982 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid1518982)
and in 1834 they are married https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3160567 (https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid3160567)
Cyndi
Hi Cindi :)
A correction. I wrote: "The probate is started November 28th. 1870". It is of cause 1810.
Kind Regards :)
Karin