Danske Slægtsforskeres Forum

HI!  I've been working with the Kirkebøger.  I found the marriage entry I needed, but I can't read the town where the groom is from.  Can someone look at this and tell me the town?  Thank you!

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Hi Carol,

Please give the church book (county and parish), the year and the image No.

What you have sent only gives the name of the groom: Bachelor trade officer (?) Hans Christian Wilhelm Hansen 32 years old.

Lissa

Thank you for helping!  The word after "32" is YEARS?  It looks like O?igh instead of "år" for years.  In all the other entries, the town is given after the years old, so I thought this was a town also.  No Hansen of this age on the census for many years before and after, so I am guessing he must be from some other town.  I've lost his wife (the main family I'm researching) after this marriage.  They are not anywhere in Roskilde, according to the censuses. 

I'm doing OK with everything else, so don't need to give more.  It's just that one word!  :)   But, it's from Køge Skt Nikolaj, 1854 marriages to Frandsine Kirstine Knutsen.

Yes, 32 Aar gl. means 32 years old - nowadays the Danish word for years is spelled "år" (å = aa).

Lissa

Thank you!  I do wish the town was there.  There is little chance of me finding the right Hansen somewhere in Denmark!    :o

Could be that Frandsine is here - don't know whether you have found her? - with parents and siblings:

Roskilde, Ramsø, Køge Købstad, Kjøge, Broegade, 286, FT-1845, B1952
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Lorents Christian Petersen 78  Ugift  pentionist Tøndern
Cicilie Petersen 40  Ugift  huusjomfruer Ringsted
Hansine Anthon 28  Ugift  huusjomfruer Turbye sogn, Præstøe Amt
Johanne Pedersdatter 27  Ugift  tjennestefolk Herfølge sogn, Præstøe Amt
Lars Knudsen 31  Ugift  tjennestefolk Endersløv sogn, Præstøe Amt
Christian Ludvig Knudsen 45  Gift  bundtmager (furrier) Frederup sogn
Ane Margrethe Haagensen 40  Gift  hans kone Kjøbenhavn
Frandsine Knudsen 19  Ugift  deres børn Kiøge
Emielie Knudsen 15  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Ida Knudsen 13  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Thora Knudsen 11  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Julie Knudsen 9  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Emma Knudsen 7  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Frands Knudsen 5  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Wilhelm Knudsen 1  Ugift  deres børn - " - [Kiøge]
Marie Jensdatter 28  Ugift  tjennestepiger Lillemark sogn, Præstøe Amt
Sophie Rasmussen 17  Ugift  tjennestepiger Kjøge
Christian Wodrick 35  Enke(mand)  skoemagermester Waløe
Ludvig Wodrick 12  Ugift  hans børn Kiøge
Carl Peter Wodrick 10  Ugift  hans børn - " - [Kiøge]
Caroline Wodrick 7  Ugift  hans børn - " - [Kiøge]
Ane Emilie Wodrick 5  Ugift  hans børn - " - [Kiøge]
Peter Wilhelm Busck 56  Enke(mand)  skoemagermester Kjøge
Dorthea Jansen 45  Enke(mand)  hans huusholderske Kjøbenhavn
Chathrine Jansen 18  Ugift  hendes børn Kiøge
Johannes Jansen 15  Ugift  hendes børn do [Kiøge]
Arnold Kjøbenhavn 4  Ugift  hendes børn Kjøbenhavn
Jørgen Hendriksen 34  Ugift  skoemagersvend Kiøge

Lissa

Deleted!

Lissa

I found them in a later census but I won't post it here because it sounds like that you enjoy finding them on your own (like I do!). If you get stumped, let me know.

HI!  Yes, that's the family!  They leave Køge after the 1860 census, almost the entire family. 

I've traced one child to Omaha, Nebraska USA, Frandsine's sister, Thora who married Johan Barfred in the same parish.  Thora Knutsen and Johan Barfred lived close to their uncle, Gus Haagensen, in Omaha, who was active in the danish lutheran church in Nebraska.  But, after the 1880 Nebraska census, I've lost them again, and I think they may have returned to Denmark.

One child, Emily Elisa, married Peter Julius Haagensen -- who was her first cousin -- and remained in Køge.  The rest of the Knutsen family has eluded me after about 1866.  Not a single one of them is on the 1870 census!  Where did they go for a few years?

The Knutsen first cousins, all Haagensen, also immigrated to midwest USA (Iowa and Nebraska, then a little later to California).  These cousins are the children of Ane Margrethe Haagensen (married Knutsen) sibling, Hans Haagensen, which I have traced fairly well.

Hans Julius Knutsen, another child of the Knuthsen family, is living on St. Croix, dansk vestindien as well as his uncle, Frantz Arent Haagensen.

I've researched this family quite well, I think, but now I'm trying to figure out where they all went after the 1860 census, except those that stayed in Køge.  They have been predictable until 1866, so I could usually find them in Copenhagen, the dansk vestindien, or Køge.  But, after 1866, they all went somewhere . . . where?   ???

Thank you so much for all your help!  Now that I found this forum, I'm sure I will make use of it now!

Carol

Here they are in 1880:

København, København (Staden), Strandgade, Strandgade 7, De Forenede Dampmøller i København, 133 az, , 27, FT-1880
Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen 57  Gift Husfader Forvalter København
Fransine Kristine Hansen 53  Gift Hans Hustru  Køge
Frantz Haagensen Hansen 22  Ugift Deres Søn Kommis Randers
Anna Margrethe Hansen 19  Ugift Deres Datter  Randers
Ida Mathilde Hansen 18  Ugift Deres Datter  København
Ellen Marie Børresen 26  Ugift  Tjenestepige Tikøb Sogn, Frederiksborg Amt


They must have been in Randers after they left Køge.  You can find the birth record of their son Frantz in:  AO: 1850-1858, Randers Skt Morten, Støvring, Randers ops 173.

Frantz is here in Copenhagen in the police register (pre national register): http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1647100&searchname=polit_simple

Lissa

Oh my goodness!  You folks are fantastic!  I would never have guessed to search in Randers . . . quite a distance from Køge!  And her children -- that I know of right now -- are all names that keep repeating through the generations in this family.

You can know that tomorrow I'll be going through Randers parish records, for all the years that they might have been there.  Thank you for the heads-up on which parish to search! (Randers Skt Morten, Støvring, Randers ops 173.) 

I really can't thank you enough! 

Interestingly, I found the Frantz Haagensen Hansen at the Politietsregisterblade.dk website one time when I was doing a huge sweep of the internet for names.  I wondered then if there was a relationship, but couldn't fit him into my database, so I just left it.  Now I know where he fits.

How do you find things so fast?  You did in one afternoon what would take me days and weeks to find! You are amazing! 

Carol

Citat fra: Carol Haagensen Dato 27 Apr 2012 - 00:42
I've traced one child to Omaha, Nebraska USA, Frandsine's sister, Thora who married Johan Barfred in the same parish.  Thora Knutsen and Johan Barfred lived close to their uncle, Gus Haagensen, in Omaha, who was active in the danish lutheran church in Nebraska.  But, after the 1880 Nebraska census, I've lost them again, and I think they may have returned to Denmark.

Hi Carol,  I was curious as have not seen the name Barfred before:

FamilySearch shows that Johan Daniel Barfred and Thora Adelaide Knudsen had a son  Frederik born 27 Sep 1862 in Frederiksberg:   Did he not survive?

Emigration records show Thora traveling to USA alone twice:

Name:  Barfred, Thora Occupation:  Frue
Age:  34 Destination:  New York
Contract no.:  621000 Registration date:  7/28/1869
Last res. parish:  Køge Last res. county:  København
Last residence:  Kjøge Destination country:  USA
Destination city:  New York City Destination state:  New York State
Name of ship:  Fulton
IDcode:  D6970B1013

Name:  Barfred, Thora Occupation:  Enke
Age:  54 Destination:  N.Y.
Contract no.:  134800 Registration date:  5/15/1889
Birth place:  ? Birth place:  ?
Last res. parish:  København Last res. county:  København
Last residence:  Kjbhvn. Destination country:  USA
Destination city:  New York City Destination state:  New York State
Name of ship:  Island
IDcode:  D8789B1912

Daniel Barfred is listed as ill with dispepsia in the 1880 Omaha census, and apparently died between then and 1885:

København, København (Staden), Cort Adelers Gade (Ulige numre), Øster Kvarter, Gl. Holm, , Cort Adelersgade 7 Matr. 371 Forhus 3. sal, 7, FT-1885
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Julie Hansen 48  Enke Husmoder  Kjøge
Carl Wandal Hansen 19  Ugift Søn Lærling Kjøge
Thora Barfred 50  Enke Søster Haandarbeide Kjøge

Thora Barfred, widow, is listed in the 1890 San Francisco directory.

Citat fra: Homer Ficken Dato 27 Apr 2012 - 14:00
IDcode:  D8789B1912

Daniel Barfred is listed as ill with dispepsia in the 1880 Omaha census, and apparently died between then and 1885:

This must be Daniel's death, misread by the transcriber as David:

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ne/county/dodge/omahadeathregister/

Barfred, David   
    Age- Yrs: 62   Months:   Days:   Sex: M   Race: W
    Nativity: Denmark   Occupation: Dairyman   Marital Status: M
    Residence: 11 & Pacific
    Cause of Death: Diabetes Melitus
    Date of Death: Jan. 21, 1881   Duration of Illness: 4 yrs
    Former Residence: 11 & Pacific
    Date of Interment: Jan. 23, 1881   Place of Interment: Prospect Hill
   
Daniel is listed as a dairyman in the Omaha directories and census.

Hi Carol,

I think this is the death of Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen born 15 July 1822 in Copenhagen - dead 2 November 1897: http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=3328366&searchname=polit_simple

He was a draper and he had been married to Christine from Kjøge born 4 April 1825. Perhaps she had died earlier?

In case you don't have it: Frandsine Kirstine's birth in Køge Skt. Nikolaj is on image 132 (1820-1827)  born 4 April 1825 to Christian Ludvig Knudsen and Ane Margrethe Haagensen.

Lissa

Hi Carol - Maybe you have seen this (link below). If not you may be interested to know about the person who posted this census; she is researching the Haagensen and Knudsen family in the West Indies:

http://www.candoo.com/surnames/viewtopic.php?t=340

roskilde, Ramsø, Køge Købstad, Brogade, , 1Hus, 4, FT-1850
Der vises flg. felter:
Navn, Alder, Civilstand, Stilling i husstanden, Erhverv , Fødested
Christian Knudsen, 52 , Gift, , Buntmager, Damsholte Sogn, Præstø Amt
Ane Haagensen, 46 , Gift, , Hans hustru, København
Frandsine Knudsen, 24 , Ugift, , Deres datter, Køge
Emilie Knudsen, 20 , Ugift, , Deres datter, Køge
Thora Knudsen, 18 , Ugift, , Deres datter, Køge
Julie Knudsen, 14 , Ugift, , Deres datter, Køge
Emma Knudsen, 11 , Ugift, , Deres datter, Køge
Frantz Knudsen, 10 , Ugift, , Deres søn, Køge
Christine Haagensen, 79 , Enke, , Konens mor, København
Julius Haagensen, 40 , Ugift, , Ophold i familien, København
Gustavus Haagensen, 10 , Ugift, , Ophold i familien, Vestindien
Henriette Haagensen, 14 , Ugift, , Ophold i familien, Vestindien
Elise Haagensen, 12 , Ugift, , Ophold i familien, Vestindien
Jacobine Stifter, 25 , Ugift, , Tjenestefolk, Køge
Stine Olsdatter, 30 , Ugift, , Tjenestefolk, Frøslev Sogn, Præstø Amt
Josephine Jensen, 16 , Ugift, , Tjenestefolk, København

32 aar gl, gl =gammel

I have found Madam Olsen (from the website mentioned) and written her.

Haagensen is mentioned here on her website: http://www.madamolsen.dk/Slaegten/slaegten1.htm

The son Frantz is here with family in 1885:

kbhv, København (Staden), Grønnegade (Lige numre), Kjøbenhavn Kjøbmager Kvarter, , Grønnegade 36,matr.276,277-382 Forhus 2.Sal, 11, FT-1885
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Frantz Haagensen Hansen 27  Gift Husfader Grosserer i Galanteri Randers
Conradine Marie Hansen født Giemzde 27  Gift Husmoder ingen Kjøbenhavn
Lovisa Augusta Schrøder 54  Ugift logerende  Næstved

The family must be here in Copenhagen in 1885, even if the name of the father is incorrect:

kbhv, København (Staden), Lille Torvegade (Lige numre), Kjøbenhavn Christianshavn Kvarter, , Lille Torvegade 2-4,Matr.133A Mellembygning 2.Sal, 10, FT-1885
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Otto Chr.Vilh.Hansen 62  Gift Husfader Forvalter Kjøbenhavn
Kristine Frantzine Hansen 58  Gift Husmoder  Kjøge
Anna Margrethe Hansen 24  Ugift Datter  Randers
Idamathilda Hansen 22  Ugift Datter  Kjøbenhavn
Anna Louise Hertz 24  Ugift Tjenestetyende  Nykjøbing F

Lissa

That's great Lissa!

Here's a summary of the Knudsen, Knutsen, Knuthsen, Knuthzen children from Køge, Ramsø, Roskilde that we're seeking (or have found....)

Martinus Theobold Knudsen, born about 1823
Frandsine Kirstine Knudsen, born about 1825, Køge
   Christine m Hans Christian Wilhelm Hansen 1854
   Found in Copenhagen with children. (Frantz Haagensen Hansen 1857,
    Anna Margrethe Hansen abt 1860, Ida Mathilde Hansen abt 1863)
   Hans Christian Wilhelm d 1897; Christine death not yet found.
Hans Julius Knudsen, born about 1828
Emilie Elisa Knudsen, born about 1830, Køge
   Married first cousin Peter Julius Haagensen
   Their daughter Emma Mathilde b 1854 m Johan Victor Louis Flindt
   Emilie Elisa remained in Køge; family found
Ida Nathalie Knudsen (per 1840 census, maybe means Ida Mathilde) b abt 1832
Thora Adelaide Knudsen, born about 1834
    Thora married Johan Daniel Barfred; lived in Omaha, Nebraska, USA.
     Son Frederik b 1862.  Found in 1880 census in Omaha;
     Daniel died 1881 buried Prospect Hill, Omaha
    1885 Thora is a widow in Copenhagen; back to USA 1889;
     possibly in San Francisco 1890
Julie Ahrentine Knudsen, born about 1836, Køge
Emma Olivia Knudsen, born about 1839, Køge
Frantz Knudsen, born about 1840, Køge
Wilhelm, found age 1 on 1845 census but missing from census 1850

Jane, see above Frandsine's birth in Køge!

In case you don't have it: Frandsine Kirstine's birth in Køge Skt. Nikolaj is on image 132 (1820-1827)  born 4 April 1825 to Christian Ludvig Knudsen and Ane Margrethe Haagensen.

Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen's death can be found in Skt. Johannes parish (1894-1899) - he was married and former merchant and was living at Ruesgade 119, cf. the police register.

(For finding which parishes a street belongs to use: www.fogsgaard.org - Kbh. gader = Copenhagen streets).

Here is Frandsine's death 15 October 1900: http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=3327826&searchname=polit_simple

Lissa

I'll try to answer the above messages one by one:

Hi, Homer Ficken . . .

I have found the Barfred surname occasionally in Denmark looking for it in census records; and I've also seen it spelled Barfrød, or Barfod, Barfød in soundex.  It's not a very common surname from what I've seen.

I've been trying to research the children of Ane Margrethe Haagensen and Marcus Christen Ludvig Knuthsen (Knutsen, Knutzen, etc.) one by one.  So far, I haven't yet started researching Thora Adelaide Knutsen and Johan Daniel Walker Barfred.  I haven't started in the Frederiksberg parish records yet.  So I don't know if this is the only child, or if he died young.  The one birth record I have is from the FamilySearch parish extractions, so I haven't seen the entire entry myself yet.

I really appreciate the emigration records that you found.  Thank you!

One thing I saw on the 1880 Omaha Nebraska census is a child of Thora's sister, Ida Nathalia Knutsen, William Thoustrup.  Ida died fairly young, with her children raised by the grandmother (Ane Margrethe Haagensen) and Peter Julius Haagensen (showing as a foster child in Roskilde census.)  Anyway, it was interesting to me that William had gone to USA with his aunt and uncle, Thora Barfred.

It is also interesting to me about the diabetes showing up.  Although Daniel Barfred isn't on the Haagensen/Knutsen line except by marriage, there has been a lot of familial diabetes from this line in many of the descendants.

Thank you for your interest in this surname and family.

Hi Carol,

Frandsine's death can be found in Skt. Johannes parish (1899-1913) image 48. She was a widow.

Lissa

Yes Lissa! I saw that...I left out a lot of detail on purpose, but I can surely add that.

Knudsen, Knutsen, Knuthsen, Knuthzen children from Køge, Ramsø, Roskilde  .

Martinus Theobold Knudsen, born about 1823
Frandsine Kirstine Knudsen, born 4 April 1825 (Køge Skt. Nikolaj image 132)
   Frandsine Kirstine m Hans Christian Wilhelm Hansen 1854 (Køge Skt Nikolaj)
   Found in Copenhagen with children. Hans Christian Wilhelm died 2 Nov 1897.
   She died later (Skt. Johannes parish 1899-1913, image 48).
Hans Julius Knudsen, born about 1828.
   Lived St. Croix, Dansk Vestindien, as did uncle, Frantz Arent Haagensen
   also see Hans Haagensen in St. Croix; his children w this family in 1850
Emilie Elisa Knudsen, born about 1830, Køge
   Married her uncle Peter Julius Haagensen
   Their daughter Emma Mathilde b 1854 m Johan Victor Louis Flindt
   Emilie Elisa remained in Køge; family found
Ida Nathalie (?) Knudsen b abt 1832
    Child William Thoustrup. Ida died young; William went to USA with Thora.
Thora Adelaide Knudsen, born about 1834
    Thora married Johan Daniel Walker Barfred (same parish)
    also seen as Barfrød, Barfod, Barfød. Son Frederik b 1862, Frederiksberg opslag 148, #227
    To USA 1869 (Danish emigration record found)
     Lived in Omaha, Nebraska, USA near uncle Gus Haagensen, found in 1880 census.
     Daniel died 1881 buried Prospect Hill, Omaha
    1885 Thora is a widow in Copenhagen; back to USA 1889;
     possibly in San Francisco 1890
Julie Ahrentine Knudsen, born about 1836, Køge
   1885 found as Julie Hansen, widow, Copenhagen w sister Thora
   Julie's son Carl Wandal Hansen born about 1866, Kjøge
Emma Olivia Knudsen, born about 1839, Køge
Frantz Knudsen, born about 1840, Køge
Frederik Wilhelm b abt 1844 died two years old.
Another child, Aurelia Angelica Knuthsen, died seven days old. 

HI, Lissa Pedersen . . .

I didn't have Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen's death yet, so I'm very happy you found that.  Thank you.  

Thank you so much also for the link to Fransine's death information, and also the Skt. Johannes parish and image information will save me a lot of time.  As soon as I can, I'll start looking in this parish records to find out if any other deaths of children or family were in the same parish.

Yes, I have her birth in Køge Roskilde.  Ane Margrethe Haagensen and Christian Knuthsen had 11 children, two died before the age of 5.  I have gone through the Køge Skt. Nicholaj parish records so many times that I think I've pulled just about everything out of it that's there on this family.  

Yes, I've corresponded with Madam Olsen in previous years.  I hadn't seen the Hansen information on her website yet, though.  Thank you for finding that!  She is a very good researcher!  Madame Olsen is descended from Emilie Eliza Knuthsen (another child of Ane Margrethe Haagensen and Christian Knuthsen) and Peter Julius Haagensen, so our research is in the same areas on this line.  By the way, previously I said that Peter Julius Haagensen was Emilie's cousin.  This is an error.  He was her uncle and husband.

Thank you for all your help!

Citat fra: Carol Haagensen Dato 27 Apr 2012 - 23:52
I have found the Barfred surname occasionally in Denmark looking for it in census records; and I've also seen it spelled Barfrød, or Barfod, Barfød in soundex.  It's not a very common surname from what I've seen.

I haven't started in the Frederiksberg parish records yet.  So I don't know if this is the only child, or if he died young.  The one birth record I have is from the FamilySearch parish extractions, so I haven't seen the entire entry myself yet.

The name was and is rare in USA also, and a current phone books search does not find a single Barfred in USA.

There was an Edward Anton Barfred in Alameda and San Francisco 1870s-1890s, born ca 1838-39 and listed first as a master mariner and later as a watchman.   He was a U.S. Navy veteran who died 1902, buried in the San Francisco National Cemetery.

I had looked up the Frederik Barfred born 1862 and his birth is recorded Frederiksberg opslag 148, #227.

Hi,

Forgot to mention that I found Hans Christian and family in the 1870 and 1880 censuses on Arkivalieronline - 1870 = image 15 and 1880 = image 16 - living at Strandgade 7.

BUT, where do we find Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen born - I have been looking and looking ..... have been through Den Kgl. Fødselssstiftelse (Royal Maternity Hosp.), Helligånd, Holmen, Vor Frelser, Trinitatis and Vor Frue where I found a Hans Christian Vilhelm, but the father was Peder Hansen, so it could not be him, cf. the patronymic naming system. If you want to check it's image 190 (1813-1825).

Lissa

HI! Jane Christiansen . . .

Thank you for your help also.  The information on the candoo website is wonderful!  My direct line is the Haagensen children that Madame Olsen mentioned in that post (Henrietta, Anna Eliza, Gustavius, and John Hans).  These four children were born at St. Thomas, dansk vestindien (USVI) to Hans Haagensen.  Hans Haagensen is a brother to Ane Margrethe Haagensen (Knuthsen).  I am descended from John Hans Haagensen, one of Hans' children.

Hans Haagensen was the owner of the "Haagensen House" now a popular tourist location on St. Thomas.  It isn't well known that he had four children before he married Sarah Julia Magens on St. Thomas.  His first four children were sent to live with Ane Margrethe Haagensen, their aunt, after their mother died at St. Thomas (Marie Emilia Harvey).

Back one more generation, the children of Johannes Haagensen and Kirstine Margrethe Kofoed were:
Ane Margrethe Haagensen (that we have been discussing above)
Frantz Arent Haagensen, who lived at St. Croix, dansk vestindien
Hans Haagensen, who lived at St. Thomas dansk vestindien
Peter Julius Haagensen (also mentioned above) lived at Køge.

Also, where did you find the summary of the Knuthsen children?  If I'd have had that earlier, it would have saved me weeks of going through parish records!  Missing from the summary is Aurelia Angelica Knuthsen who died at 7 days old.  Frederik William died at 2 years old.

Thank you all for your interest and help!

Hi Carol,

Thanks for the gracious response to me and to these fabulous researchers. I also appreciate your sharing more about the family - very interesting, and others who search for information about them at some future date will be lucky to find here the details you have painstakingly gathered.

I find it quite remarkable that your adventurous family had journeyed to the Caribbean at such an early date! I hope you've enjoyed a stay at "Haagensen House" - or will.

I can't go back now to edit the summary with some additional changes I would make, so we'll let it stand as it was posted. I prepared the summary a short while ago: it reflects your work, and that of the others here, and thus you couldn't have found it earlier!

Mvh

Hi!  Homer Ficken . . .

Thank you for finding the Barfred surname in San Francisco area.  A death record for Thora is there also.  It could be that the Edward Anton Barfred in Alameda and San Francisco is a descendant, child, of Thora and Daniel.  It's not typical in this family to have just one child, so I believe that I'm probably missing some of Thora's children so far, and this Barfred information is suggestive especially with the Barfred surname unusual.  Thank you again for checking that!

Edward A. Barfred, sea captain and seaman USN, was born in Denmark about 1838. Could be a brother to Thora's husband. I had seen him but haven't searched for the connection, if any...

In this link, "FRAN" means he is listed in the 1890 San Francisco Great Register of Voters.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/cgs/names/namesba.htm

Sea Captains
http://www.maritimeheritage.org/captains.htm

Find-a-Grave has only his death date.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Barfred&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=6&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=3520140&df=all&

HI! Lissa Pedersen . . .you said:

BUT, where do we find Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen born - I have been looking and looking ..... have been through Den Kgl. Fødselssstiftelse (Royal Maternity Hosp.), Helligånd, Holmen, Vor Frelser, Trinitatis and Vor Frue where I found a Hans Christian Vilhelm, but the father was Peder Hansen, so it could not be him, cf. the patronymic naming system. If you want to check it's image 190 (1813-1825).

Do you have a link to Den kongelige Fødselsstiftelse?  Does it have a searchable database?  That's a resource that I haven't known about.  I did a quick search and see that it started in 1750?  I have been doing research in Helligånd and Holmen parishes after 1750, so if there are records I can search, I'll be very happy!  It might help me find some of my dead ends.

Thank you!

I found Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen mentioned in the Copenhagen probate registry - but - you will have to order the probate by writing on the National archives Daisy ordering system on the internet and then go to the National Archives and see it. Could be that this probate would tell about Hans Christian's birth place.

Found it under "Andre Arkivalier" = other records (Arkivalieronline) and then "Københavnske Skiftearkivalier" = Copenhagen probate records - and then in the first box choose "Københavns Skiftekommission indtil (until) 1919" - then "Navneregister: Hovedregister" - go to 1897 and click "Vælg" = choose and his name is on image 116 giving some numbers and a letter being the reference, when you order - but - you will have to do it in a special way, and a person on this forum has explained it to me.

I don't have time right now to order the probate and go there, but perhaps later .... one will have to wait 3 days to get an ordered record.

Lissa

Jane, you just find Den Kgl. Fødselsstiftelse as a parish under Copenhagen county on Arkivalieronline, but you will have to go through it page by page - no easy way to do it, if that's what you mean!?

You will find the children and the mothers having numbers, and if the record doesn't give much info, you will then have to go to the National Archives and look up those numbers in 2 different books and perhaps find more info. These books are in a separate room where you go through them and they need not be ordered. Some people are willing to do look-ups, when they are at the National Archives.

Lissa

Frandsine's probate reference can be found in 1900 - same procedure as mentioned earlier - on image 117 - No. 4 on the page - the ref. No. is 2/1163 1 K.

Lissa

Citat fra: Jane Christiansen Dato 28 Apr 2012 - 01:23
Edward A. Barfred, sea captain and seaman USN, was born in Denmark about 1838. Could be a brother to Thora's husband. I had seen him but haven't searched for the connection, if any...

In this link, "FRAN" means he is listed in the 1890 San Francisco Great Register of Voters.
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/cgs/names/namesba.htm

Sea Captains
http://www.maritimeheritage.org/captains.htm

Find-a-Grave has only his death date.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Barfred&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=6&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=3520140&df=all&

Find A Grave has his death year wrong, although it states their info came from V.A.   He's in the 1896 S.F. Voters Register and 1897-98 S.F. City Directories, and died 11 May 1902:

U.S. Veterans Gravesites, ca.1775-2006
about Edward A Barfred Name: Edward A Barfred
Service Info.: SN US Navy
Death Date: 11 May 1902
Interment Date: 20 May 1902
Cemetery: San Francisco National Cemetery
Cemetery Address: 1 Lincoln Blvd., Presidio of S.F. Presidio of San Francisco San Francisco , CA 94129
Buried At: Section Na Site 909

And the V.A. National Gravsite Locator has him mislisted as Edward A. Barfield!

BARFIELD, EDWARD A   
SN   US NAVY 
SPANISH AMERICAN WAR 
DATE OF DEATH: 05/11/1902 
BURIED AT: SECTION NA  SITE 909   
SAN FRANCISCO NATIONAL CEMETERY 

Citat fra: Carol Haagensen Dato 28 Apr 2012 - 01:33
HI! Lissa Pedersen . . .Do you have a link to Den kongelige Fødselsstiftelse?  Does it have a searchable database?  That's a resource that I haven't known about.  I did a quick search and see that it started in 1750?  I have been doing research in Helligånd and Holmen parishes after 1750, so if there are records I can search, I'll be very happy!  It might help me find some of my dead ends.

Thank you!

Thanks Lissa, but at the same time I was confused by your note to me. I guess you are referring to this question by Carol? In any case, your patience in explaining research tools is very much appreciated by everyone.

Thanks Homer. He was a bit old to serve in the Spanish American War, wasn't he? Still, a captain of a ship might be older....


Did you spot any of Thora's siblings in the San Francisco Bay Area?

Hi! Jane Christiansen . . .

Thanks for the gracious response to me and to these fabulous researchers. I also appreciate your sharing more about the family - very interesting, and others who search for information about them at some future date will be lucky to find here the details you have painstakingly gathered.

Thank YOU for your kind words and help!  When I first started research, it was the clues and information that others sent me and that I found online that really pointed me in the right direction.  I'm sure that I've always gotten much more than I've been able to give.  It's my hope that anyone researching this family is helped; and of course, they can contact me if they'd like more.

I find it quite remarkable that your adventurous family had journeyed to the Caribbean at such an early date! I hope you've enjoyed a stay at "Haagensen House" - or will.

It is remarkable to me, too.  This was a time when there wasn't easy traveling.  Yet, within two to three generations, this family traveled from Bornholm, to Copenhagen, to the danish west indies, to Roskilde and America, and probably more that I haven't found yet.  Given the time in history, it is really interesting, I agree.

I can't go back now to edit the summary with some additional changes I would make, so we'll let it stand as it was posted. I prepared the summary a short while ago: it reflects your work, and that of the others here, and thus you couldn't have found it earlier!


LOL!  That happens to me, too.  I find something, but it turns out that it's my own research!  It's a good summary, thank you for doing that!

hilsen,
Carol

Hi Jane,

Sorry for the mistake .. too late in the night. My reply was of course meant for Carol.

Lissa

Sweet note Carol!

Lissa, after all the kind help you give, you owe no one any apologies!
;)

Lissa Pedersen . . .
Thank you for finding the Hansen names in the probate index!  I didn't even realize probate registry was at the Arkivalieronline!  Your instructions led me right to the page. 

In this thread, you all have given me several new sources that I didn't know were there!  In the future, I'll have new places to search.

Homer Ficken . . . It is very fun for me to see some of the descendants in California.  During this thread, you all have given me a couple more parishes to search, new resources, and ideas.  Please know that I will follow up on the Barfred surname in USA to find any links that may exist to this family.  Thank you!

If I have neglected to thank anyone for your help, please know that I do appreciate the help very much.  I'm still trying to enter the new information into my database with citations, and all you have given me will keep me busy for the next few weeks! 

It is especially kind for you all to post in English!  I am so proud to be danish!

Carol

Citat fra: John Wrenholt Dato 27 Apr 2012 - 01:36
Here they are in 1880:

København, København (Staden), Strandgade, Strandgade 7, De Forenede Dampmøller i København, 133 az, , 27, FT-1880
Hans Christian Vilhelm Hansen 57  Gift Husfader Forvalter København
Fransine Kristine Hansen 53  Gift Hans Hustru  Køge
Frantz Haagensen Hansen 22  Ugift Deres Søn Kommis Randers
Anna Margrethe Hansen 19  Ugift Deres Datter  Randers
Ida Mathilde Hansen 18  Ugift Deres Datter  København
Ellen Marie Børresen 26  Ugift  Tjenestepige Tikøb Sogn, Frederiksborg Amt

They must have been in Randers after they left Køge.  You can find the birth record of their son Frantz in:  AO: 1850-1858, Randers Skt Morten, Støvring, Randers ops 173.

Just back to say that birth record for this Ida calls her Ida Nathalia, like her aunt. I thought the two first+middle names should be the same!

København, København (Staden), Sankt Johannes, 1861 - 1869, Dåb (AO Opslag 8)
Ida Nathalia Hansen b. 11 September 1861, baptised 20 October 1861
father Hans Chr. Vilhelm Hansen, Kjøbmand
mother Franzine Christine f. Knuthsen
at Blaagaardsgade 49
Faddere:
Anna Margrethe Knuthsen of Kjøge
A. Marie Hansen
Edvard Thostrup, Kjøbmand (Ida's husband), Kjøge
...Barfoed, Boghandler, Kjøbenhavn (Thora's husband)

HI!
Yes, I have the 1880 census now.  Thanks to this wonderful forum and all of you who have helped!  I've been going through the parish records today.  Frandsine was married in 1854, but her first child, Frantz Haagensen Hansen, wasn't born until 1857.   Ane Margrethe Hansen born in 1860 and right away, Ida Nathalia (Mathilde) Hansen was born in 1861.  Because of the spacing, I wondering if there might be another child.  But, after searching through births and death records in Randers, I found no other children up until they moved to Copenhagen.  Now, I'm going through the Skt. Johannes parish registers for anything else that might be there.  I was very excited to see the grandmother, Ane Margrethe Knuthsen attending the christening of Ida Nathalia (Mahilde) Hansen.  That's the latest date I have on her.  So, I'll be checking these parish registers very closely for other relatives who might be living near.  Thank you, again! 

You are on a roll!

About the 1880 census in the blue box: it's a citation of John's earlier post - so yes I knew it had been found. I "cited" it.

I noticed on the 1860 census in Køge for Peter Julius Haagensen and Emilie Eliza Knuthsen that they have a foster child living with them - Julius Arent Emil "Thonstrup" age 9, born in Køge, foster child.

In 1855 he is Julius Thoustrup age 4.

A Julius A. E. Thoustrup born abt 1850 is found in San Diego; died 1914 and buried in Mount Hope Cemetery, San Diego, San Diego, California. Also Carrie Thoustrup b abt 1855 died 1905.
From the California Tombstone Project: http://files.usgwarchives.net/ca/sandiego/cemeteries/mthope-t.txt

And a Google "hit" for Julius Arendt Emil Thoustrup in San Diego on a webpage called "A New Lodge Is Formed" (Centennial history of "La Mesa Lodge" of the Masons).

BTW I'm American, as are some of the others.  ;)

HI, Jane!
Thanks for the Julius Thoustrup references.  I'd guess that Carrie was probably his wife.  I also found Cora Thoustrup on findagrave.com  The inscription says that she is the only child of William Thoustrup.  I believe that is Julius' brother.  The internet link was fun; it shows Julius being a Master Mason for helping to start a new lodge in San Diego.  I'm not going to go any farther on the Thoustrup line, though, because it's getting pretty far away from my direct line, the Haagensen's.

Last evening, I tried to find the confirmation records of Frandsine Knuthsen Hansen's children: Frantz, Anna Margrethe, and Ida.  I was using a paper I downloaded from Staten Archiver that has the parishes in Copenhagen listed by the street.  Using Strandgade from the 1880 census, and also Ryesgade from the Denmark Københavns Politietsregisterblade, and death records, it shows that they should have been in Skt. Johannes Sogn or Von Frelser Sogn.  I checked both, but no confirmation records.  ???

So I don't know if they lived somewhere else earlier about 1875, or if I'm looking in the wrong parish.  But, their death records were in Skt. Johannes.

I consulted another paper from Statens Archiver for Danmarks Kirkebøger for Skt Johannes, and it says that this parish was form in 1861 from two other parishes.  So, I'm kinda lost trying to figure out if I should be searching another parish, or if they aren't there?  Any ideas?

You wrote:

"I tried to find the confirmation records of Frandsine Knuthsen Hansen's children: Frantz, Anna Margrethe, and Ida....They should have been in Skt. Johannes Sogn or Von Frelser Sogn.  I checked both, but no confirmation records....I'm kinda lost....Any ideas?"


About the Thoustrups - yes I see what you mean. We were hunting for the more recent dates in a family of Knuthsen children, but for you, really, it's the Haagensen connection that is closest.