My great great grandfather (Martin Peterson) was born in Denmark 26 January 1857, and his brother Robert was born in Denmark in 1861 (I think). Their father was Hans Joergen Peterson, and their mother was Christine Hanson. They came to the US in 1881. From a family record that we have, it says they were born in Fallstrom/Fallstron, Denmark, but I haven't been able to find anything that sounds even remotely close to that.
I am also researching Martin's wife, Anna Marie Larson, born 13 March 1859 in Slagelse. Her parents were Peter Larsen and Sophie/Sophia Sorenson. She came to the US (Wisconsin) in either 1883, 1884, or 1885. They didn't marry until they came to the US.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you!
It looks like Family Search has made short work of the first step. The birth date and parents match for Morten Pedersen, born 26 January 1857 in Idestrup in Maribo Amt ('County'), Arkivalier Online parish register 1852-1878, opslag (fiche) 18, #2 for 1857. His baptism is noted as March 8.
His parents were Hans .... Pedersen and Kirsten, nee Hansen, age 32. Note that until the 1880's, women appear on the records by their baptismal name, even after marriage. And that until the middle of the nineteenth century last names were usually formed from the father's first name with a 'sen' ending.
Idestrup is in southern Falster.
'med venlig hilsen'
-Ralph
PS In looking at the transcribed census records, it seems that the parents were married after 1850, the latest census of this era transcribed for Idestrup.
Re the marriage:
More precisely, October 23?, 1856, opslag 289, #13. Hans Jørgen appears to be born in 1823, Kirsten a year later.
This is almost certainly Kirsten's family, before she went out as a servant:
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Idestrup Bye, Et Hus, 73 F1, FT-1840, C7669
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested: (birthplace first noted in 1845)
Hans Pedersen Alling 44 Gift Husmand og Skomager (homeowner, shoemaker)
Margrethe Jørgensdatter 26 Gift Hans Kone (his wife)
Jørgen Hansen 2 Ugift Deres børn (children)
Kirsten Hansdatter 15 Ugift Deres børn
mvh
-Ralph
Wow! Thanks! Unfortunately, right now I cannot view the records you are referencing - the arkivalier website is down. How can I be certain that what you found is for them?
Citat fra: Robin Nasman Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 05:01
Wow! Thanks! Unfortunately, right now I cannot view the records you are referencing - the arkivalier website is down.
I'm relieved to hear that; I thought maybe my Java was corrupted!
This must be his registration for emigration;Væggerløse parish adjoins Idestrup parish:
Name: Petersen, Morten Occupation: Skomagersvend
Age: 24 Destination: Racine, Wisc.
Contract no.: 47400 Registration date: 3/24/1881
Last res. parish: Væggerløse (Falster) Last res. county: Maribo
Last residence: Veggeløse, Maribo Destination country: USA
Destination city: Racine Destination state: Wisconsin
Name of ship: Indirekte
IDcode: I8081P1002
(Added) This must be "Robert":
Name: Petersen, Rasmus Occupation: Tyende (m/k land)
Age: 21 Destination: Racine, Wisc.
Contract no.: 47800 Registration date: 3/24/1881
Last res. parish: Væggerløse (Falster) Last res. county: Maribo
Last residence: Veggeløse, Maribo Destination country: USA
Destination city: Racine Destination state: Wisconsin
Name of ship: Indirekte
IDcode: I8081P1003
Oh my gosh - they settled in Racine before they moved to Baileys Harbor, Wisconsin. It must be him! This is so awesome.
Did you happen to find anything on Anna Marie Larson?
AO leaves us locked out of Slagelse, Sorø amt.
Rasmus's birth is recorded on opslag 33, #16, more identifiable than legible, June 25, 1860.
mvh
-Ralph
Where are you getting all this info from if you cannot get on arkivalier?
The search for the parish records is a different program than the display of scans within a given record book. Ergo, only part of their site is acting up. When they are off line, the message should be that the site is not found.
The transcribed records are different sites/servers.
mvh
-Ralph
Here is the family in 1880:
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse By, , et Huus, 7, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Lars Rasmussen 55 Ugift Huusfader Sadelmager Væggerløse Sogn, Maribo Amt
Hans Jørgen Pedersen 36 Gift Husfader Jordbruger Væggerløse Sogn, Maribo Amt
Kirsten Hansen 54 Gift Huusmoder Torkildstrup Sogn Maribo Amt
Morten Pedersen 23 Ugift Søn Skomagersvend Idestrup Sogn Maribo Amt
[Hans Jørgen Pedersen's age should be 56!]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rasmus in another household:
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Radbjerg By Væggerløse sogn, , en Gaard, 6, FT-1880
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Rasmus Larsen 37 Gift Husfader og Gaardejer Nørre Ørslev Sogn Maribo Amt
Ane Sophie Simonsen 22 Gift Hans Hustru Nykjøbing F.
Kirsten Larsen 2 Ugift Deres Søn Her i Sognet
Rasmus Pedersen 19 Ugift Tjenestekarl Idestrup Sogn Maribo Amt
Engel Rasmussen 17 Ugift tjenestepige Her i Sognet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Jørgen Pedersen born 15 January 1823, parents Peder Hansen Mortensen and Johane Jensdatter
(Væggerløse 1813-1838, opslag 17 first entry)
Peder Hansen Mortensen died 10 Dec 1831, age 50
(Væggerløse 1813-1838, opslag 216)
Hans Jørgen and his mother in 1834:
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse Bye, , Fittingehuuset, 29, FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Anne Nielsdatter 70 Enke Fattiglem
Johanne Jensdatter 46 Enke Fattiglem
Morten Pedersen 14 Ugift hendes søn
Hans Jørgen Pedersen 12 Ugift hendes søn
Jens Pedersen 5 Ugift hendes søn
Christiane Pedersdatter 8 Ugift hendes datter
Kirsten Hansdatter 49 Enke Boende til Leie,ernærede sig ved Haandarbejde
Hans Jørgen Pedersen's siblings:
Morten Pedersen born 13 Dec 1820 (Væggerløse 1813-1838 opslag 15, first)
Christiane Pedersdatter born 5 Dec? 1826 (Væggerløse 1813-1838 opslag 69, last)
Jens Peder Pedersen born 19 May 1829 (Væggerløse 1813-1838 opslag 36, third)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I can't find an Anna Marie Larsen born 1859 in Slagelse.
By chance were she and Robert Peterson's wife Christine sisters?
Door County marriages list:
Martin Peterson and Annie Marie Larson, 22 Dec 1888
Robert Peterson and Carrie Christine Larson, 20 Apr 1890
Homer, I'm not sure I understand what it says in the post between "Here is the family in 1880" and "
Hans Jørgen Pedersen's age should be 56!". In regards to Anna Marie Larson and Carrie Christine Larson, I was wondering that myself. My aunt is at the State Historical Society today and is going to look up Robert's marriage to see if Anna Marie's and Carrie Christine's parents are the same.
Citat fra: Robin Nasman Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 16:13
Homer, I'm not sure I understand what it says in the post between "Here is the family in 1880" and "
Hans Jørgen Pedersen's age should be 56!".
That is the transcribed 1880 census from http://ddd.dda.dk/ddd_en.htm and the transcriber has misread HJP's age.
My online translator says Morten was a shoemaker.
On Family Search Annie Maria Larson is said to be born in "Syeland, Denmark."
Link to Norman Madsen's Danish-English dictionary; also see GramTrans site to supplement Google Translate
http://www3.sympatico.ca/colin.swift/danish.htm
Did you want help with the rest? I don't read Danish but have picked up this from the forum and from translation software:
Danish folktælling (census) 1880
In the village of Væggerløse,
Væggerløse parish,
Falsters Sønder herred (on the island of Falster),
Maribo amount (southwest of Copenhagen, covering more than one island)
Living with a man named Lars Rasmussen age 55:
Hans Jørgen Pedersen, 36 Gift (married) Husfader (homowner) Jordbruger (farmer) born in Væggerløse Sogn (parish), Maribo Amt
Kirsten Hansen 54 Gift (married) Huusmoder born in Torkildstrup Sogn (parish), Maribo Amt
Morten Pedersen 23 Ugift (unmarried) Søn (son) Skomagersvend (shoemaker apprentice) born in Idestrup Sogn(parish), Maribo Amt
Also, and this is probably a dumb question, but how are you able to read the downloaded files? So far, I have only found the handwritten ones, which aren't always that clear. Where are you getting the transcribed stuff? Am I looking in the right place? I just started using the arkivalier site yesterday, so I don't know much about it yet.
I do have a translate site - google translate. Works really good. I guess I just didn't understand what you meant when you said he was supposed to be 56. I get it now.
Jane, thank you!
Citat fra: Robin Nasman Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 17:00
Also, and this is probably a dumb question, but how are you able to read the downloaded files? So far, I have only found the handwritten ones, which aren't always that clear. Where are you getting the transcribed stuff? Am I looking in the right place? I just started using the arkivalier site yesterday, so I don't know much about it yet.
The link I posted http://ddd.dda.dk/ddd_en.htm takes you to the searchable site with transcribed censuses and also the emigration registrations that I posted. However many censuses have not yet been transcribed.
This is a separate free site, not connected to the online archives images.
Surprising find:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wipgs/PGS/PGSDCPre1907MarrSeq1890cert01374to1895cert01880Vol4a.htm
Door County Pre-1907 Marriages
In Sequence -PGS Vol. 4a 1890-(01374) to 1892-(01599)
PETERSON, ROBERT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .HUSBAND. . . . . . . . . .01394. . . . . . . . . DENMARK, SONDOR ORTEV
PETERSON, HANS JUERGEN. . . . . . . . . .20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .FATHER/H. . . . . . . . . .01394. . . . . . . . .
HANSDOTTER, KARSTEN. . . . . . . . . . . .20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .MOTHER/H. . . . . . . . . 01394. . . . . . . . .
LARSON, CARRIE CHRISTNE. . . . . . . . . 20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .WIFE. . . . . . . . . . . . . 01394. . . . . . . . . DENMARK, SLAGETSE
LARSON, PETER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .FATHER/W. . . . . . . . . 01394. . . . . . . . .
SORENSON, SOPHIE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .MOTHER/W. . . . . . . . .01394. . . . . . . . .
PETERSON, MARTIN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 APR 1890. . . .BAILEYS HARBOR. . . . . . . . . . . . .WITNESS. . . . . . . . . . 01394. . . . . . . . .
There is a Sønder Ørslev in Idestrup sogn.
They are sisters. Parents Peter Larsen/Larsen and Sophie/Sophia Sorenson. Carrie Christine was born in Slagelse also. Jane, you just found what I was just looking at. Not sure what Sondor Ortev would be. Sønder Ørslev? Does that fit with Rasmus/Robert?
http://www.greenwoodsupperclub.net/ramus_and_carrie.html
Ramus Peterson and Carrie Larsen
(Carrie) Christine Marie Larsen Peterson
Christine Marie Larsen was born January 2. 1866 in Sjaelland, Denmark to Peter Larsen and Sophia (Sorensen) Larsen and immigrated to the United States in 1899. For several years Christine worked in Denmark in a clothing factory as a seamstress and it was considered a well paying job. Still her sister convinced her to come to America. Upon arrival, she was surprised to find how uncivilized Door County was. Her sister didn't tell her about the Native Americans who lived there. It was then when she questioned why she left Denmark.
Before boarding the ship "Danmark" to the new world Christine was given an unusual prediction. A fortuneteller said an eventful journey was in her near future that she must not take. Christine was unshaken by this warning. She packed all her possessions and started out to make a new life with her sister and brother-in-law, Mr. & Mrs. Martin Petersen, who were living on a farm in Baileys Harbor, WI. But, before the "Danmark" reached its destination, disaster struck. The ship sank, along with all of Christine's possessions. Fortunately an English steamer named the "Missouri" was passing nearby and rescued the ships passengers. This occurrence remains one of the least-known great sea rescues of all time.
A year later in 1890 in Baileys Harbor, WI, Christine married (Ramus) Robert Peterson, brother of Martin, her brother-in-law. She became the mother of five children; Harry, William, Louis, Robert, and Eva. Christine passed away August 3, 1933.
(Ramus) Robert Peterson (Pedersen) - Great Grandfather on Maternal side
Robert Peterson was born in Sondor Ortev, Denmark, July 26, 1860, the son of Hans Juergen Petersen (Padersen) and Kirsten (Hansen) Petersen. Robert was reared and educated in Denmark where his parents were well known farming people. It is uncertain when they changed the family name from Pedersen to Petersen.
Robert worked in a sawmill until he reached the age of twenty, when he left his native land and sailed for America. He made his way to Racine, WI, where he worked as a farm hand for one year. He left Racine and went to Dakota, where he was employed in the harvest fields through the summer months and in the winter worked in the woods lumbering.
In 1887 he became a resident of Baileys Harbor, WI, and purchased a farm of one hundred and twenty acres, which he cleared and developed into a very productive dairy and crop farm.
In 1890 he married his sister-in-laws sister, Christine Larsen. He and Christine raised five children on the farm and remained on the farm until his death, October 12, 1934. The barn and homestead is still standing just south of Peninsula Center and owned by a relative.
Wow, how'd you find that? Except how did she marry Robert (who was in Bailey's Harbor) in 1890, when she was supposedly still in Denmark until 1899? Must be a typo. Unless Robert, Martin, and Anna Marie went back to Denmark to get her?
Yes, a typo - the ship sank in 1889 (per the same source) and in the census (I looked at census data at Ancestry.com) she says she immigrated 1889 - another census said 1888, but that's normal.
The Greenwood Supper Club is owned by descendants. See the posted family tree"
Carrie
Immigrated to America in 1889. The ship Danmark, which she was on, sank 04/05/1889
About Sonder Ortev - possibly being Sønder Ørslev - We don't have a birth place for Martin and Robert (Morten and Rasmus); the Door County marriage record for Robert says he's born in "Sonder Ortev," but where is that? I was guessing maybe Sønder Ørslev in Idestrup sogn in Maribo amount (as above family in census).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_SS_Danmark
Rescue of the SS Danmark on Wikipedia - amazing she survived!
Can someone explain to me where all this info is coming from - exactly? Because when I go to these sites and try to search, I come up with 0 results. I must be an idiot. :)
Citat fra: Jane Christiansen Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 21:21
About Sonder Ortev - possibly being Sønder Ørslev - We don't have a birth place for Martin and Robert (Morten and Rasmus); the Door County marriage record for Robert says he's born in "Sonder Ortev," but where is that? I was guessing maybe Sønder Ørslev in Idestrup sogn in Maribo amount (as above family in census).
Births of Morten and Rasmus are both recorded at Idestrup, listed by Ralph early in this thread. Go to http://mapper.acme.com/ and search for Idestrup, Denmark, then click in a couple notches and you will see Sønder Ørslev less than a mile east of Idestrup.
Hi Homer,
The births as Ralph WONDERFULLY found are recorded at Idestrup church, but the family might not have been living in Idestrup by, right?. Where Kirsten Hansdatter age 15 was found in 1840 census (Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Idestrup Bye). So I was trying to clarify for Robin that the family might not be in the town of Idestrup at the time of the births.
Sounds as if you agree the likely place within Idestrup sogn is Sønder Ørslev. Have I got that right?
Alternately, sometimes immigrants gave the name of a "birth place" as a town near their actual birth place - like a resident of a Chicago suburb might say she's born in Chicago.
This is a small point - basically they are born in Idestrup, Falsters Sønder, Maribo.
Ah -- I see - I wrote the words "We don't have a birth place...." Yes, that was not well written.
Citat fra: Jane Christiansen Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 22:09
Sounds as if you agree the likely place within Idestrup sogn is Sønder Ørslev. Have I got that right?
Both birth records are faint, but I believe it lists Sdr. Ørslev after the mother's name on both.
family to Kirsten Hansdatter
1850
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Idestrup bye, Et Huus, 3, FT-1850, C9622
Hans Pedersen 53 Gift Huusmand, dagleier, huusfader born Her i Sognet (= Idestrup sogn)
Margrethe Jørgensen 37 Gift hans Kone born Her i Sognet
Jørgen Hansen 12 Ugift Deres søn born Her i Sognet
1845
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Idestrup Bye, et Huus, 6, FT-1845, C2323
Hans Pedersen 48 Gift huusmand og Dagleier Her i Sognet [Idestrup]
Margrethe Jørgensdatter 32 hans Kone Do [Idestrup]
Jørgen Hansen 7 deres Søn
1840
Above
A comment on that entry at ddd.dda.dk:
Kommentarer: Noget som daglejer
1834
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Idestrup Bye, et huus, 18, FT-1834, C7382
Hans Pedersen 38 Gift huusmand dagleier
Karen Rasmusdatter 34 Gift hans kone
Kirsten Hansdatter 9 Ugift deres datter
Karen Rasmusdatter must have died and Hans remarried.
"Both birth records are faint, but I believe it lists Sdr. Ørslev after the mother's name on both"
Yeah!! Thanks Homer!!
Now Robin can say the brothers are born most likely in Sønder Ørslev, Idestrup sogn, Falsters Sønder, Maribo, but absolutely certainly in Idestrup sogn.
Looking for Peder Hansen Mortensen, father to Hans Jørgen Pedersen - Homer, can this be him?
1801
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse, , 37, FT-1801, B8365
Morten Pedersen 65 Gift Mand Jordløs (landless) Huusmand og Tømmermand (carpenter)
Ane Hansdatter 66 Gift hans kone
Peder Mortensen 22 Ugift Deres børn - Hans Søn af 2det ægteskab (his son from second marriage)
1787
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Weggerløse Bye, Huusmænd, 11, FT-1787, C1997
Same family...Peder Mortensen age 8 Søn af 2det ægteskab. Here father Morten is a Dagleyer.
As for Hans Jørgen Pedersen's occupation of dagleier - I think that means day labourer.
Robin - about searching - sometimes the search engines are picky (some more than others) so try wild cards and different ways of spelling names. You'll get the hang of it on Family Search, Ancestry.com, www.ddd.dda.dk.
The churchbooks are much harder - this forum helps with that.
Sønder Ørslev is a village a half mile east of Idestrup and well within the parish boundaries.
Until the 1850's parish boundaries were important, as parishioners were 'bound' to the parish in which they lived. Parish boundaries were set before the reformation, and sometimes reflect very old land ownership patterns. With that much importance they are shown on the more detailed older maps.
mvh
-Ralph
Has anyone had any luck finding anything on Ancestry.com? I can't figure out the correct combination of spelling to find much of anything. Is there a way that you could post a direct link to stuff that you have found? Or email me the doc? I would like to have proof that I can print out to show others in case they question me. Thanks!
To summarize what we have found, this is what I came up with...
--Morten Pedersen: b. 26 January 1857 in Sønder Ørslev, Idestrup sogn, Falsters Sønder, Maribo. Baptism 8 March.
--Brother Rasmus Pedersen: b. 25 June 1860 in same
--Both emmigrated in 1881, before which they lived in Væggerløse, Veggeløse, Falsters Sønder, Maribo (not sure on the order)
--Parents of Morten & Robert: Hans Jørgen Pedersen (b. 15 January 1823) and Kirsten Hansen/datter (b. abt 1826 based on Census data provided), m. 23? October 1856.
--Parents of Hans Jørgen Pedersen: Peder Hansen Mortensen (b. abt 1779 based on Census info provided, d. 10 December 1831) and Johane Jensdatter
--Siblings of Hans Jørgen Pedersen: Morten Pedersen (b. 13 December 1820), Christiane Pedersdatter (b. 5 December? 1826), and Jens Peder Pedersen (b. 19 May 1829).
--Parents of Peder Hansen Mortensen: Morten Hansen and Maren Rasmusdatter.
--Parents of Kirsten Hansen (Morten's mother): Hans Pedersen (b. abt 1796 based on Census info provided) and Margarethe Jørgensdatter (b. abt 1814 based on Census info provided). -OR- is her mother Karen Rasmusdatter (b. abt 1800 based on Census info provided)??
--Sibling of Kirsten Hansen: Jørgen Hansen (b. abt 1838 based on Census info provided).
My questions from this data are:
--Karen Rasmusdatter is most likely Kirsten Hansen's mother, right?
--Hans Jørgen Pedersen married a woman with the same name as his mother, just to make sure I interpreted that correctly.
--Is there a name on the ship that Morten and Rasmus came over on? And where they landed?
--Has anyone been able to find anything on Anna Marie Larson/Larsen, Peter Larsen, Sophie Sorenson, etc?
Thanks again for all the help!
Citat fra: Robin Nasman Dato 20 Okt 2011 - 04:35
My questions from this data are:
--Hans Jørgen Pedersen married a woman with the same name as his mother, just to make sure I interpreted that correctly.
--Is there a name on the ship that Morten and Rasmus came over on? And where they landed?
Thanks again for all the help!
Hans Jørgen Pedersen's mother was Johanne Jensdatter; his wife was Kirsten Hansen.
I can't find the ship that Morten and Rasmus emigrated on. Some passenger lists didn't survive or were damaged by ink blots and tears. "Indirekte" on their registrations means the ship was not yet known and they probably left from another port, eg. Hamburg, Bremen, Liverpool.
Oh good grief. I didn't even read what I typed - I had it right in my response. I need sleep.
Hi again Robin - nice to see you guys are making progress.
I hope some kind soul can check AO in Slagelse for Annie Maria Larsen.
Robin you asked about the mother of Kirsten Hansen (Kirsten being Morten's mother): The census data shows her mother is not Margarethe Jørgensdatter and that Karen Rasmusdatter was her father's wife when she was a little girl. Likely Karen is Kirsten's mother, but the church records are needed to be certain.
I don't know where you found the data for Peder Hansen Mortensen's parents - maybe it's just a mistake you saying they are Morten Hansen and Maren Rasmusdatter?
I think this is "our" Peder (Hansen) Mortensen:
1801
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse, , 37, FT-1801, B8365
Morten Pedersen 65 Gift Mand Jordløs (landless) Huusmand og Tømmermand (carpenter)
Ane Hansdatter 66 Gift hans kone
Peder Mortensen 22 Ugift Deres børn - Hans Søn af 2det ægteskab (Morten's son from second marriage)
Robin, did you know you can make a family tree online at Ancestry.com for free? You need to pay to use many of their services, but building a tree is free. It's almost necessary to keep all these different family lines straight.
Here's a link to Annie and Morten/Marten on Family Search (as you asked to see stuff)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MX15-GVB/p1
You bring up searching as a problem again. Do you want me to write an explanation how to use ddd.dda.dk? If you can navigate the site, then you should be able to bring up the exact same census data we are finding, by using the spellings and place names shown here in this forum.
Bear in mind that people in the forum are also "striking out" in searches, same as you. Sometimes the records aren't there, they are destroyed, or they are not digitized, and one must use an old-fashioned way of finding them (such as your aunt visiting the Door County courthouse). By the way - did she find obituaries for anyone we could see? It's a long shot, but an obit might say more about where Annie's parents are.
On ddd.dda.dk, I cannot find them.
Mvh
Citat fra: Jane Christiansen Dato 19 Okt 2011 - 23:20
Looking for Peder Hansen Mortensen, father to Hans Jørgen Pedersen - Homer, can this be him?
1801
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Væggerløse, , 37, FT-1801, B8365
Morten Pedersen 65 Gift Mand Jordløs (landless) Huusmand og Tømmermand (carpenter)
Ane Hansdatter 66 Gift hans kone
Peder Mortensen 22 Ugift Deres børn - Hans Søn af 2det ægteskab (his son from second marriage)
1787
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Væggerløse, Weggerløse Bye, Huusmænd, 11, FT-1787, C1997
Same family...Peder Mortensen age 8 Søn af 2det ægteskab. Here father Morten is a Dagleyer.
As for Hans Jørgen Pedersen's occupation of dagleier - I think that means day labourer.
Robin - about searching - sometimes the search engines are picky (some more than others) so try wild cards and different ways of spelling names. You'll get the hang of it on Family Search, Ancestry.com, www.ddd.dda.dk.
The churchbooks are much harder - this forum helps with that.
Jane, I was going by this post....I think. How would I know if this one or the other one you posted is right? It's confusing because children don't have the same last name as their parents, but at the same time, I guess it makes sense....somewhat.
I do have a tree started on ancestry.com (over 1300 people on it), and I also have a copy of the original doc that you posted from the familysearch website. I have kind of figured out how to use the ddd website, and have found all the census documents that have been posted so far. Where would I go/how would I get access to church records? Is that where I would use the AO website and try to decipher the grainy images? Would those happen to be transcribed somewhere?
My aunt didn't find anything on this branch of the family tree. But I will be going back home for Thanksgiving, so I'll try to get to the local library during that time, or see if I could get that newspaper microfiche sent to my local library here. I think I might be able to do that. Thanks again for the help!
ADDED: I just noticed that you edited your post. I had copied and pasted all these posts into a Word doc so I could print it out and write all over it trying to connect people, and when I copied it, it was different census info. Oops. I didn't notice that when I copied it just now.
Hi Robin - forgot about that edit! Thought I revised pretty fast - but you were faster. : D
Looked again for parents for Annie Maria and Carrie Christine Larsen. No luck.
I hope some kind soul here in the forum will search AO Slagelse for you. ; D Or maybe people have searched and didn't find - so they didn't post. That could be.
Here's a link to the burial site of your great-great-grandparents. The name spellings vary a little:
Annie Marie Larsen m. Petersen, buried in St. Mary's of the Lake Cemetery in Bailey's Harbor, Door, Wisconsin. Her headstone says she died 1943.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996853&
Martin Petersen, died 1941:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996852&
Annie's sister Christine Larsen who married Rasmus/Robert Peterson (brother to Martin), died 1933:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996850&
Martin's brother Rasmus/Robert Peterson, d. 1934:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Peterson&GSiman=1&GScid=2344691&GRid=49996851&
Robert and Christine had children Harry (abt 1891), William/Willie (abt 1895), Ludvig/Louis (abt 1901), Robert (abt 1908), and Eva (abt 1915) in 1905, 1910, and 1920 census.
I'm sure you have the information for Annie and Martin in the US. : D
You wanted original records to print out - I don't get that an image of original marriage record for Martin and Annie on Ancestry.com. As was already posted, the date does come up. Has this citation information. So the original record can be ordered, and it might say more about Annie's parents. Forgive me if you already said you have this.
Wisconsin Marriages, pre-1907
Name: Martin Peterson
Marriage Date: 22 Dec 1888
County: Door
Volume: 01
Page: 0309
Yes, I have their marriage registration - I had to go to a university library near Door County and was able to find it and print it out. It lists Peter Larsen and Sophie Sorenson as her parents. I've also been to their graves (both brothers are in same cemetery, but Robert's last name is Petersen, and Martin's is -son, weird) and have pictures of the graves. Next time I go home, my grandpa's going to take me to the site where their farm was (but not sure if any buildings/house are still standing). I'm going to try to order the Door County newspapers for that time period to see if I can find her obit and get info from that. I'm hoping my local library can get them for me.
Hi again - sounds good. I'm like you in that it's very hard for me to navigate the churchbooks websites and we need help. The other day when Ralph and Homer tried to search, the AO site was down. Maybe in time help will come here. If not, you could make a new post for finding Annie Marie Larsen's birth record. If so be sure to reference this thread and give all the possible names for searching - that is, include Annie's sister Carrie Christine. (Presumably Caroline Kirstine in Denmark, but could vary). Their mother Sophie could be Sophia, Sofie, Sofia, Soffie, Soffia...Carrie Christine was said to be born on Sjælland, the island on which Copenhagen and Slagelse, Soro, both are found. I've certainly searched all the amounts on the island and done a global search in Denmark, as I'm sure you have too, on www.ddd.dda.dk.
This link lists other cities on the island - although that's really kind of pointless to have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealand
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MGTR-2F5/p1
Here's Maren Sophie Sorensdatter (danish o)
single, age 27, b 1841
in Braaby, Soro, Denmark
married 16 May 1868
to Peder Larsen
widowed, age 42, b. 1826
source ref. bk #16 page 238 #2
So if this is "our" couple, then Peder and Sophie get married after Annie Maria Larsen is born in 1859!
And there's a Maren Sophie Sorensdatter getting married to Mads Nielsen in 10 Oct 1863 in Haslev, Soro, Denmark - no idea if it's the same woman.
Awesome!
Citat fra: Jane Christiansen Dato 22 Okt 2011 - 03:16
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/MGTR-2F5/p1
Here's Maren Sophie Sorensdatter (danish o)
single, age 27, b 1841
in Braaby, Soro, Denmark
married 16 May 1868
to Peder Larsen
widowed, age 42, b. 1826
source ref. bk #16 page 238 #2
So if this is "our" couple, then Peder and Sophie get married after Annie Maria Larsen is born in 1859!
Robin - I edited OUT that added comment.
What is the reference number in reference to? Can I look that up somewhere?
Hi Robin,
The reference number refers to where in the Braaby (now spelled Bråby) church books the marriage can be found.
Yes you can access these records online for free. Don't let the fact that the site is in Danish worry you as it is easy to use.
Go to http://www.sa.dk/ao/
Click on kirkebøger (church book)
Click on søg in kirkebøger (search in churchbook)
For amt choose Sorø
For herred choose Ringsted
For sogn choose Bråby
Now click on the book for 1841-1890, and on the left side click on Opslag 211. When the page loads look at record 2 and you will see the marriage record of Peder Larsen.
Sincerely,
Paul
Thanks Paul - Robin will be so pleased to see this! Although, since Annie Maria Larsen of Door County, Wisconsin, was born in 1859, this 1868 record raises the obvious question.
Probably the next question is - what does it say? I too would like to get a better handle on reading the churchbooks. I see the following, but maybe it's wrong:
Churchbook for Braaby, Ringsted, Sorø
op. 211 #2
first column, Bridegrooms name etc:
Huusmand og (and) __________ Peder
(next line) Larsen in ______________ 42 års gl. (years gammel/old)
(next line) og (and) ____________13 (15?) June 1827
(next line) ____________________________(probably says widowed)
second column, Bride's name etc:
Pigen (maiden) Karen Sophie Sorens [not Maren as the Family Search record says]
(en? very faint) __________ 37 års? [ not 27 years as the Family Search record says]
_____28 June 1833? og (and)
__________ (probably says single)
next column, Witnesses:
Fredrich Sorensen and Christen Christensen
16 May [1868]
i kirke(?) [in church?]
far right - can't read -
The 1868 marriage transcribed:
Huusmand og Enkemand Peder
Larsen i Vesteregede 42 Aar gl. [Vester Egede]
og vaccineret 15 Juni 1827
af Heyer. Første Gang Enkemand [widowed only once]
Pigen Karen Sophie Søren...
paa Gisselfeld 37 Aar og vac
cineret 28 Juli 1833 af U?...
...
Picked from the remarks:
Banns were read 5, 12, 19 April
Probate? 25 March
mvh
-Ralph
If Peder was a widower, then maybe his previous wife was Anna Marie's (and Carrie Christine's) mother? Is that what you mean, Jane?
Also, where is a good place to look for death info? AO? In those same parish books?
Another question - back in Svar #2 from Ralph, Alling shows up after one of the names - does this translate to something, or is it part of his name? (Hans Pedersen Alling 44 Gift Husmand og Skomager)
What does this mean? It's a source of some type, like the parish records or census, I think?
Den nøjagtige dato vides ikke
Thanks for writing Robin. Good to hear from you.
"If Peder was a widower, then maybe his previous wife was Anna Marie's (and Carrie Christine's) mother? Is that what you mean, Jane?"
Yes
"Also, where is a good place to look for death info? AO? In those same parish books?"
Yes
"Another question - back in Svar #2 from Ralph, Alling shows up after one of the names - does this translate to something, or is it part of his name? (Hans Pedersen Alling 44 Gift Husmand og Skomager)"
Part of his name, added after his calling name (Hans), his patronymic name (Pedersen), to further identify which Hans Pedersen it is. Allinge may be a place where some ancestor is from (and name stayed with the familiy), or a place where the person himself is from, especially in early generations. There's an Allinge on Bornholm - I don't know where all else.
I *think* we may have the wrong Kirsten Hansdatter (Martin's mother). I'm trying to figure it out. Ugh.
Jane - that one that you had changed a while back, where Maren Pedersdatter and Hans Pedersen were listed as her parents -
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Sønder Ørslev Bye, , et huus, 44 (22), FT-1834
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Hans Pedersen 25 Gift huusmand har jordlod og er skræder
Maren Pedersdatter 31 Gift hans kone
Kirsten Hansdatter 1 Ugift deres barn
Engel Simonsdatter 18 Ugift tjenestepige
Why did you decide this was wrong? Because the age didn't add up with the marriage registration?
Guess I was writing this as you posted - I'll read what you put, Robin!
Hi Robin, That's too bad that you are discouraged. Bear in mind that in my parents' day, people doing a genealogy took decades to develop the needed information, and invested time and money in trips to archives near and far. I think you've found out a lot about your family here, very quickly.
There is no doubt we have the correct Kirsten Hansdatter as Martin Petersen's mother. You knew her name and the name of Martin's father. You knew Martin's birthdate. You knew Martin had first gone to Racine, Wisconsin.
Then we found the Danish-equivalent name, Morten Petersen, with that exact birth date and that father's name and that mother's name. He was in Idestrup parish, on the island of Falster, in Falster Sonder herred, Maribo. Then we found Morten Petersen of the right age from that place immigrating to Racine, Wisconsin.
Ergo...we have our man.
This string of facts backed up by those for his brother. Rasmus Petersen's death certificate even states he was born in "Sonder Ortev." Americans mangle the names of Danish places - since there is no Sonder Ortev (that doesn't even sound Danish), this must be Sonder Orslev, the village within Idestrup parish that we talked about.
You question this line of reasoning, why?
I don't doubt any of the "male" part of the line - Morten ->Hans Jørgen ->Peder Mortensen etc. etc. But I came across the website of someone else's family tree where they had Hans Pedersen (Alling) as the father of Kirsten Hansdatter, and that she was married 3 times, 2 of the spouses listed, neither of them Hans Jørgen, and had 4 children, none of them a Morten, etc. etc. If you google Hans Pedersen (Alling), it's the first site that comes up - but click on Translate this page instead of the actual site, otherwise it just brings you to a search page (at least, that's what it does to me). This is the Hans that we are thinking is Kirsten's father. Then, going back to google, the third site on the page says Kirsten Hansdatter (but click on Translate this page), and this is where things don't add up. I haven't been able to find the exact records that he cites, yet, but I'm working on it.
Ha ha - again you posted while I was writing! Okay, let's see what you said!
Okay, Robin, you ask, "Why did you decide this was wrong? Because the age didn't add up with the marriage registration?"
I love how you are carefully assessing the facts. It is easy for people to get confused - including posters in the forum - with all the details that are involved.
We start with Martin Petersen. We find his birth record, based on information you provided as established fact.
We then looked for THAT Hans Jorgen Petersen and THAT Kirsten Hansen. There are many people with those names, so yes, it's good to be careful about confusion.
When Martin/Morten was born, Kirsten was age 32. 1857 - puts her born about 1825.
1834 census we posted - KH age 9 - puts her b abt 1825 - place of birth not noted
1840 census - KH age 15 - b abt 1825 - place of birth was not noted
1880 census - KH 54 - b abt 1826 (given the month of the year, ages can be a bit off like that) - place of birth noted as Torkilstrup Sogn
We have not found her birth certificate right? We think we know her parents, and that she was born in Torkildstrup Sogn, which is surprising.
That other Kirsten is too young -
Have you found a Kirsten and Hans couple who are a better fit?
Ha. No. I'm just going off what this guy's tree says. I'm just trying to prove HIS info wrong. Were you able to find what I was talking about?
....google Hans Pedersen (Alling), ....
I did Robin and I don't see the link you mean. Would you please post the link here? Just copy the address in the address bar of your search engine, and paste it into a forum post.
We will prove him wrong! :D
I'm not sure if these will work - they're actually google translate sites, but here goes.
Hans Pedersen (Alling)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://26.19.5746.static.theplanet.com/users/hjolsen/1/data/116&ei=5sGkTrewD6XJsQL3z82FBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhans%2Bpedersen%2B%28alling%29%26hl%3Den%26rls%3D%257Bmoz:distributionID%257D:%257Bmoz:locale%257D:%257Bmoz:official%257D%26prmd%3Dimvnso
Kirsten Hansdatter
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=http://26.19.5746.static.theplanet.com/users/hjolsen/1/data/105&ei=5sGkTrewD6XJsQL3z82FBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDAQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhans%2Bpedersen%2B%28alling%29%26hl%3Den%26rls%3D%257Bmoz:distributionID%257D:%257Bmoz:locale%257D:%257Bmoz:official%257D%26prmd%3Dimvnso
Hi Robin - I need to look more closely at this...I'm being tugged another direction....
To be continued....!
I haven't revisited the 1840 census, to confirm in any way my first 'find' of Kirsten Hansen's parents.
I do see a Kirsten Hansen ('Hansdatter') baptized in Torkildstrup and born February 6, 1824 (KB 1813-1829, opslag 56 #5) to Hans .... of Sillerup and Ellen Marie Rasmusdatter.
Next stop is her confirmation, presumably with a vaccination date.
That turns out to be 1829-1839, opslag 74 #6. I am able to pick out Kirsten's name and her mother's name and read that important vaccination as July 3, 1824 by Klein.
mvh
-Ralph
Ralph - did you get a chance to look at my links? I'm trying to look up Kirsten's second marriage (Lars Andersen), and I think I found where it should be, but I can't really make out the names.
Idestrup, Falster Sønder, Maribo 1852-1878 opslag 286 first one (the date is 29 December 1854, and that's the only one with that date). The first column looks like it says something Niels and I have no idea what the rest says. First, am I even in the right section (marriages)? Second, there has to be an easier way than going through page by page looking for names - please say there is!?!
Found her birth - Idestrup, Falster Sønder, Maribo 1813-1828 opslag 107, first one, not that this one really proves anything, but I'm just happy I found it all by myself. :)
What is Anker's bog? Anchor's book? What might that be in reference to?
Maribo, Falsters Nørre, Torkilstrup, Sullerup Bye, en Gaard, 115, FT-1834, B8899
Hans Hansen Palle 44 Gift Gaardmand
Ellen Marie Rasmusdatter 43 Gift hans kone
Karen Hansdatter 16 ugift deres Børn
Rasmus Hansen 15
Kjersten Hansdatter 10
Hans Hansen 6
Peder Hansen 2
Ralph found Kirsten Hansen ('Hansdatter') baptized in Torkildstrup and born February 6, 1824 (KB 1813-1829, opslag 56 #5) to Hans .... of Sillerup and Ellen Marie Rasmusdatter.
So this is Kirsten Hansdatter #2. Family is of Falsters Nørre (island of Falster, north) herred rather than Falsters Sønder (south Falster)....
Hmmmm
Robin - The marriage to Lars Andersen would be impossible for "our" Kirsten Hansdatter. I think our best bet is to let Ralph and the rest build the records for your family and ignore the snarled online tree - which kind of matches "us" and kind of doesn't.
The website you found has "our" Kirsten Hansdatter, I think, but shouldn't be married to Lars Andersen, I think. Website says:
Kirsten Hansdatter
b. 21 SEP 1825 in Idestrup and christened 23 OCT 1825.
d. 17 FEB 1909
MARRIAGE 1 to Hans Poulsen 29 DEC 1854 Idestrup Kirke
CHILDREN = Karen Hansen b. 07 DEC 1851 in Idestrup
MARRIAGE 2 - I will add to the online tree from what Forum found:
Hans Jorgen Petersen, 23(?) OCT 1856 Idestrup opslag 289, #13
CHILDREN ["our" couple had 2 sons, not in online tree:
Child 1 Morten 26 January 1857 in Idestrup opslag (fiche) 18, #2
CHild 2 Rasmus 25 June 1860 opslag 33, #16, more identifiable than legible]
MARRIAGE 3 - impossible, to Lars Andersen
Lars b. 20 NOV 1823 Sdr.Vedby
CHILDREN Bolette Andersen b. 07 FEB 1856 in Meelse [Google translate place name]
Hans Jorgen Andersen b. 22 JUL 1859 in Meelse - twins
Henrik Andersen b. 22 JUL 1859 in Meelse
Kirsten can't be married to two men, bearing them children, at the same time. We know Hans Jorgen Pedersen is alive in 1880 census - so "our" couple is together at least from marriage 1856 - census 1880.
P.S. There is a place in Idstrup sogn called Sillestrup: Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Idestrup, Sillestrup. I wonder if the online tree has become snarled because the place names and people names really are confusing especially when not used to navigating them.
Can this be the widow to Lars Andersen in 1880? Lars Andersen children were said to be born in Meelse (by that online tree)
1880
Maribo, Falsters Sønder, Horbelev, Meelse, Et Hus, 114, FT-1880, D5007
Kirsten Hansen 54 Enke Husmoder, Arbeiderske born in Idestrup, Maribo A
Maren Kristine Johansen 2 Ugift Hendes Pleiedatter born Her i Sognet [= Horbelev]
As you recall, the 1880 census for the other Kirsten Hansen (in Idestrup) has her birth place as Torkilstrup...and now the Kirsten Hansen in Meelse, Horbelev, is born in Idestrup! Both are age 54 in the 1880 census.
Jane - they really should have broadened their name selection back then to make it easier for their descendants to find them. Ha ha! Too many people with the same name!
I'm waiting to get something in the mail from my aunt (what she found last week at the State Historical Society) - hopefully that will give me a little info about Anna Marie and Carrie Christine. But I think once I get that data, I'm going to start a new thread. :) I've also ordered the microfilm for the Door County newspaper, and I'm hoping to find Martin's obituary - maybe that will have info about his mother.
Sounds good Robin. Stay in touch!