Danske Slægtsforskeres Forum

I am trying to help an elderly fellow American woman locate the birth of her mother.  Her mother is Gerda Maria Magdalena Svensson born in Denmark on 14 Aug 1913, mother Hilda Svennson.  I found the birth of Gerda's brother, John Ivar Svensson, in 1910 at den kgl Føselsskiftelse but according to the København police records Hilda left Copenhagen in 1912.  In the manifest of 1923 where she went to Canada it lists a non-relative living in Aahus købstad as her contact in Denmark but only lists Gerda's place of birth as Denmark.

This may be a wild goose chase but I would love to help this woman.  I suspect that Gerda was born outside of wedlock.

Mange tak for din Hjælp.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hej Paul.

Århus, Hasle, Århus Sankt Johannes, 1910-1913, opslag 238, nr. 152.

Århus, Hasle, Århus Domsogn, 1913-1921, opslag 299, nr 0, øverst.

Bless you Gitte.  I know this is going to make one elderly woman very happy.

Med venlig amerikanske hilsener
Paul

One last request.  Would some one be so kind as to translate this record.  Tusind tak for din hjælp.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hi Paul,

The mother was unmarried laundry worker .... born 9 October 1880, and I suppose that you have seen from the Police register where she came from in Sweden!? I think she was living at Sjællandsgade 32. It says Bolig = address.

In the Skt. Johannes it says that the name Gerda was added at the baptism. The mother named Gerda on 12 Dec 1914. It also says under notes that the child has no birthplace right in any municipality in Denmark - must be because her mother was not a Danish citizen!

Lissa

Hej Lissa,

Once again thanks for the information.  I found the mother and two children in the 1916 census at Sjællandsgade 32 since I could make that out.  I will now send the translation to Virginia, Gerda's daughter.  She is thrilled to get all this information.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hi Paul,

A little more about your Swedish roots.
According to Kyrkhult AI:3 page 248 and 250.
Probably Hilda Svensson was born 9/10 1880 in Julanäs, Kyrkhult, Blekinge.
Parents:
Tailor Sven Jönsson born 24/5 1856 in Kyrkhult
Wife Anna Johnsdotter born 20/1 1859 in Kyrkhult. Dead 8/10 1912 in Julanäs, Kyrkhult, Blekinge.
Married 28/2 1880 in Kykhult.
Siblings to Hilda:
Ida born 22/4 1880
John Ivar born 1/8 1885. Dead 4/10 1907 in Asarum, Blekinge.
Anna born 6/1 1888. Vent to Amerika 20/4 1910.
Illegitim Gerda 23/1 1897

Sven Jönsson emigrated to Amerika 1888 and he died there.
He was declared dead 23/9 1930 by Listers Häredsrätt. (Jurisdictional judge)

Many, many thanks Svend.  I will relay this information to the woman.  I know that she has been thrilled by the information we have found on her family.

Med venlig hilsen fra amerika til sverige
Paul

An Anna Svensson (Svensson being her patronym) arrived in N.Y. on the Hellig Olav on May 18, 1910 from Copenhagen.

Her last residence in Sweden is "Hishult" (my remark: could be Kishult=Kyrkhult). Her nearest relative in Sweden is: Sven Jönsson, Lycket(?), Hishult/Kishult.

Perhaps her father came back to Sweden and returned to the US after 1910 where he died.

Eva M

Maybe it isn't her after all. There is a place called Hishult not close to Kyrkhult. It may be a coincidence.

Julanäs in Kyrkhult should probably be Jutanäs.

Hej Eva,

Thanks for the information about Anna.  And now to the American records.  I know that Virginia is really enjoying all the information about her ancestors and she has really thanked everyone who has helped.

mvh
Paul

Hi

I went trough Sjællandsgade today - a street with old houses. Sjællandsgade 30 and 32 is now one house, but I think the buildings are the originaly from 1877. I will sent you some photos to your private mailaddres.

Venlig hilsen Inge, Århus

Mange tusind tak Inge.  From letters that Gerda had saved we believe that her father's first name was Ninus, but I think it is almost impossible to find a Ninus in Aarhus at the time she got pregnant.  But perhaps we will get lucky.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Are you sure about Ninus? Couldn't it be Linus which is a Swedish name? I don't really know if it is used in Denmark as well.

I saw that here are two gentlemen buried in Århus having the first name Aninus. It doesn't say when they were buried.

http://www.aarhus.dk/da/borger/sundhed-og-sygdom/Doedsfald/Aarhus-Kommunes-Kirkegaarde/Personsoegning.aspx


Eva M

Hi Eva,

I am sure it is Ninus.  From letters that the woman has in the state of Washington that her grandmother received, Ninus was living in Odense in 1913 and in Esbjerg the year before.  The letters are quite moving.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

At the birth of the child mother Hilda lived at Frederiksbergs Torv 4 (Sankt Johannes, Århus, 1910-1913 image 238). When she named the child in 1914 she had moved to Sjaellandsgade 32. The child was baptized on 29 August 1915.
In FT 1921 Sj-gade 32 image 168 it is said that Hilda belonged to the Adventist Church.

Eva M

Thanks for the information Eva.  Virginia asked me to post her letter of thanks to all who have helped her discover her past so here it is

      
Good morning Paul,

Well, it took me a little time to be able to catch my breath again, as I think you can understand.  So many emotions - a wave of them - elation, peace, sadness, relief, gratitude . . . and it seems with knowledge comes understanding, too, and Hilda's lifelong bitterness is explained somewhat.

I don't have the words to convey to you and to your wonderful friends my gratitude, Paul.  This has been the gift of a lifetime from all of you.

I'm going to mail out the translations to my sisters this morning and wish I could see THEIR faces when they read them!  (Neither of them is on a computer . . . )

Many, many thanks to you, Paul, and to your wonderful friends.  You've all made three old ladies (and their families) so very happy - and strangely, at least for me, relieved.

Most sincerely,  Virginia

PS  I just showed my husband the line from Ninus that says that you never really know a woman until you see her angry!   I think that line made Ninus more human to me . . .

PPS  Would you be willing to share this note with your friends?

And may I also add my thanks.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Paul,

The father of John Ivar is coachman Kristen Valdemar Madsen, from Maribo. Hilda claims support for the child.

Look into Familieretlige sager in Copenhagen on AO:

Choose:
Aj journal 1910 case No 1687 (image 88) then
Bj journal 1911 case No 231 (image 248) and then
Bj journal 1912 case No 16 (image 10)

Hilda now says she is living in Overgade 29, Odense. There is probably a name within brackets which I can't read. To me it looks like Glaskemet??

Eva M

Arkivinstitution:  Landsarkivet for Nørrejylland
Arkivskaber(e):  Århus Byfoged
Arkivserie:  Alimentationsjournal  1893-1919
Eksemplar:  Original, Papir m.m.
Indhold fra:  1913 
Indhold til:  1915 
Indhold beskrives med:  Bidragsperiode (Bidragsperiode, Alimentnavn)
Nr:  7244
   
Det valgte er i en fysisk enhed med etiketteksten:
Arkivnummer:
B-056
Arkivskaber:
, Århus Byfoged
Arkivserie:
Alimentationsprotokol
Indhold:
1913 - 1915

I don't know if Gerda's father can be found in the archive above.

Eva M

Hej Eva,

Once again thank you for your expertise.  I will be sending this to Virginia as soon as I finish this post.  I have already looked at the 1911 and 1916 censuses for Ninus, but he is not at that address.  I know that it took you a long time to find the three records and both I and Virginia appreciate your help.

Med venlig amerikanske hilsener
Paul

P.S.  I notice Fåborg and Barløse at the bottom of your post.  My Løndahl side of the family has it roots in Fåborg and my oldest known ancestor, Jørgen Kjeldsen, father of Jørgen Jørgensen, has roots in Barløse.

Paul,

my question is in what language did Hilda and Ninius communicate? If he was a Dane his letters must have been written in Danish. Are they written in Danish or in Swedish? Maybe he was a Swede?

I have found this Ninius. He is a Swede. I know it is far-fetched but you never know.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Ftif2gif%2Eexe%3FT%3D%5C%5C%5C%5C192%2E168%2E100%2E11%5C%5Cimages%5C%5CT715%2D3257%5C%5CT715%2D32570333%2ETIF%26S%3D%2E5&pID=602822110043&name=Ninius+Y%2E%26nbsp%3BFagerstroin&doa=Feb+20%2C+1923&port=Newport%2C+England&line=0012

Eva M

Hej Eva,

The letters from Ninus are in Danish.  In addition, there is a letter, apparently from Ninus's mother, apologizing for his irresponsible behavior.   It is also written in Danish.  Here is a transcription of parts of two letters from Ninus.  There are parts of the letters which no longer exist.

Odense den 7. =14.

Kære Hilda og Børn

Takke for Brev kan jeg ikke, da jeg ikke har hørt fra dig i lange, lange tider.  Jeg har ventet Brev hver Morgen og jeg tror ogsaa, at kan sige at der er ikke en Dag, uden jeg har gaaet Hjem om Eftermiddagen for at se efter om der ingen skulde være kommet, jeg forstaar dig ikke Hilda, du kan være sikker på, at der er ingen (eller noget) jeg tænker saa saa tidt eller meget paa som Eder, har du ikke et Eneste Ord tilovers for mig, det er vel nærmest forkert at skrive saadan, eftersom at du jo tidt nok i baade har skrevet og forbeholdt mig mine Forseelser i dine breve, men men derfor behøver vi da ikke helt glemme hinanden, lad mig høre lidt om hvordan det gaar. Jeg fik en Hilsen igaar fra en som fortalte, at han havde besøgt dig, det er en Humlehandler Holger Jensen her fra Odense, han har hos mig faaet adr. for snart et Aar siden i Esbjerg, det har hele tiden været min Mening at jeg vilde have sendt lidt Penge nu til Paaske, men det er saa smaat med dem, jeg skylder endnu 72 Kr. i Forretningen, jeg har ikke modtaget en Øre derfra iaar, det var en slemme Tur den i Fjor Efteraar – men som jeg før har skrevet skal jeg sende nu til Flyttedag, eller lige forinden, lad mig nu min Egen lille Hilda (det har du været, og for mit (resten af brevet mangler)

.......... som skrevet, nu inden Flyttedag.
Jeg haaber for din Egen Skyld Hilda at du slaar kold Vand i Blodet og giver dig Tid til at Trække Vejret regelmæssig, du kan rigtignok gid jeg tror det er, som en gamel Venmand har sagt, at Kvinden lærer ingen ikke at Kænde før hun er rigtig gal, saa kan man gennemskue dem, - aldrig havde jeg troet at du den stille og rolige Hilde kunde blive saadan, men ligemeget jeg holder af dig og det m.m. mere en jeg selv kan tro.
Jeg ønsker her som i Brev 1. at i alle har det rigtig godt og du bedes skrive inden ret længe (nu i Helligdagene)
Eders Ninus.

The letter from Odense was probably written 14 Jul 1914.

Thank you so much for your interest in this.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Paul,

Couldn't Ninus be a nickname for Marinus? And the name after the adress is not a name but a title Glarmester?

Eva M

År 1920 opsattes en løbebro i 1. sals højde mellem sidehusene, for glarmester C. M. Rasmussen. Allerede i 1899 blev facaden gennembrudt med den første »Speilglasrude« over 3 fag for den østre butik. Glarmester Rasmussen flyttede til ejendommen o. 1900, og glarmesterforretningen forblev i ejendommen til 1973, efter faderen overtaget af Ellen Rasmussen, som delte boligen over butikken med en søster, og boede her til sin død i 1979.

This is from Odensedatabasen. Information on Overgade 29. Glarmester Rasmussen lived there and had his shop from 1901.

Hilda was probably the maid of Glarmester Rasmussen. In the letter a Forrettning is mentioned.



http://www.odensedatabasen.dk/ejendom/detaljer?id=83


Eva

Citat fra: Eva Morfiadakis Dato 04 Maj 2013 - 06:59

Couldn't Ninus be a nickname for Marinus? An the name after the adress is not a name but a title Glarmester?

Ninus sounds like a nickname to me.

If you mean the address Overgade 29, Odense, the text in the brackets is Vaskeriet (Laundry).

Best regards,
Inger Toudal

Paul,

In FT 1911 there is a man living as a lodger at Overgade 29 whose name is Christ. Marinus Petersen b. 5 Sep. 1889 in Holstebro. He came from Holstebro in 1910. He is a bricklayer.

Se image 51 (ulige No.)
Eva M

Paul and Inger,

So it is Vaskeriet but a Glarmester came in handy by coincidence, and so she didn't work at Glarmester Rasmussen.

The young man fits my theory of Ninus being a nickname for Marinus.

Inger where do you find a paternity/alimentation case? In Odense or in Århus? I looked in Odense Vor Frue to see if the birth had been recorded there as well if Hilda lived in Odense 10 months before giving birth.

Eva M

Citat fra: Eva Morfiadakis Dato 04 Maj 2013 - 07:41

Inger where do you find a paternity/alimentation case? In Odense or in Århus?

Complicated - depends where the alleged father lived at the time, and whether he acknowledged the paternity, or not:

http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning

BUT: I looked up the baptism of Gerda (Århus Domsogn 1913-1921, opslag 199) - guess what?

The first mentioned witness is Modelsnedker Marinus Bertelsen - is he the father?
Unfortunately, no address or place of living is mentioned.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Hej Paul

I have now sent the pictures also to the other mailaddres -

And something about the parishes in Aarhus:

Frederiksbjerg Torv, where Hilda lived, when Gerda was born, belongs to Skt. Paul, Sjællandsgade belongs to Aarhus Domkirke, where she was baptized. As her birth is also mentioned in the churchbook for Sct. Johannes it means that she was born in the Fødselsstiftelse ("birth-hospital", this building is today a part of the Aarhus University), which belonged to the parish of Sct. Johannes.

VH. Inge

Now there are two Marinus. I would say that Marinus Bertelsen is more likely to be the father.
But where do we find him? In view of the letters he seems to have lived in Odense.

Of course there would be no record of the mother's whereabouts 10 months before since the child has no "føderet" in Denmark, the mother being Swedish.

Eva M

PS I get the feeling he is a younger man, still dependent on his mother. She is aware of his relationship with Hilda.

http://eba.esbjergkommune.dk/Esbjergs%20historie/Borgere/Esbjerg%20Borgerdatabase%201909/Detaljeside.aspx?qid=5276

Fornavne      :     Peter Marinus Kirstein
Efternavn      :     Bertelsen
Køn      :     M
Fødselsdag      :     28-05-1884
Fødested      :     Esbjerg
Skattenummer      :     02541
Stilling      :     Tømrermester
Gade      :     Danmarksgade
Husnummer      :     96
Matrikelnummer      :     
Status i husstand      :     Mand
  :     C1471
Ejer af bopæl      :     Tømrer Jensen, visevært
Arbejdsgiversnavn og bopæl      :     
Dato for bosættelse i Esbjerg      :     
Tidligere bosættelse      :     
Hvornår er oplysningerne optaget      :     04-12-1909
Bemærkninger      :     
Tilbage til søgning

This Peter Marinus Kirstein Bertelsen is probably here in Jerne Parish 1890:

Ribe, Skast, Jerne, Smed Bertelsens hus, FT 1890:

Niels V. Bertelsen, 49, gift, husfader, smed, født i Fjendeslev
Anne Bertelsen, 39, husmoder, født i Høysel

One of the children:

Peder Marinus Bertelsen, 6, født i Esbjerg.

Vh. Inge

Fornavne      :     Olga Anna Dagmar
Efternavn      :     Bertelsen
Køn      :     K
Fødselsdag      :     21-11-1883
Fødested      :     Randers
Stilling      :     
Gade      :     Nygaardsvej
Husnummer      :     43
Status i husstand      :     Hustru
 :     D1960
Ejer af bopæl      :     Frandsen
Årlig husleje      :     0
Arbejdsgiversnavn og bopæl      :     
Dato for bosættelse i Esbjerg      :     01-05-1900
Tidligere bosættelse      :     Aarhus
Hvornår er oplysningerne optaget      :     22-11-1914
Bemærkninger      :     

His Wife in 1914!!


Fornavne      :     Peter Marinus Kirstein
Efternavn      :     Bertelsen
Køn      :     M
Fødselsdag      :     28-05-1884
Fødested      :     Esbjerg
Stilling      :     Tømrer
Gade      :     Nygaardsvej
Husnummer      :     43
Status i husstand      :     Mand
 :     D1960
Ejer af bopæl      :     Frandsen
Årlig husleje      :     360
Arbejdsgiversnavn og bopæl      :     Selvstændig
Dato for bosættelse i Esbjerg      :     1904
Tidligere bosættelse      :     Hellerup
Hvornår er oplysningerne optaget      :     22-11-1914
Bemærkninger      :     




And a child born 1906.

Hej Eva, Inge, Gitte og Inger,

En million tak for din interesse.  I also have become obsessed with helping Virginia find her father.  Marinus Bertelsen seems like the most likely candidate.  Ninus mentions that he was in Esbjerg the year before he wrote the letter.  What a wonderful hunt.

Med venlig danske-amerikanske hilsener
Paul

Here is the transcription of a letter, apparently from Ninus's mother, to Hilda.  Does it give a clue?

Østersundby

Kære Hilda



Vi ser i deres Brev nede hos Christians at i har bekommen eder en lille Pige som vi ønsker tillykke med, og nu sender vi dem tilligemed dette Brev 5 Kroner i Barselsgave, vi er bekymret over Ninus vi mente nu han var faldet til stilhed og ikke turede mere, det var også nok bedre om ham kunne foe en fast Plads paa et værksted thi dette Reisi omkring er meget farlig der skal en stærk Karater til for at holde sig især for ham der har bekænder i enhver Krog, og det gør os meget ondt for dem og di smaa at i skal lide ondt, vi frygter for at en ting er tilstødt ham da di ingen ting hører fra ham under disse omstens.
Lad os nu høre hvordan det gaar di kan dristig skrive til os som om vi var gamle bekænder thi vi føler med dem. Hilsen fra Christian han kan ikke reise nogensteder thi hans tid er så meget besat det vil tage flere dage for ham og det kan han ikke. Er det mulig for dem da overtal Ninus til at give sig til at arbeide saa dette Reiseliv kunne foe ende stakkelse Ninus det gør mig saa inderlig for ham at han ikke kan styre sig selv og boe et stille Liv nu haaber vi snart at høre fra dem, dermed en venlig hilsen fra Ninuses Forældre.

I only wish the mother had signed it with her name rather than Ninuses Forældre.  The two letters from Ninus and this one are the only ones that Gerda saved.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Østersundby = Nørre Tranders, Ålborg

= ca. 10 Ninus

Mange tak Gitte.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

How can I attach a JPEG image.  Virginia sent me pictures of Hilda, John Ivar, and Gerda that we would like to share with all those who have found and shared information about them.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Citat fra: Paul Løndahl-Smidt Dato 04 Maj 2013 - 21:39
How can I attach a JPEG image.  Virginia sent me pictures of Hilda, John Ivar, and Gerda that we would like to share with all those who have found and shared information about them.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

When you reply click on Øvrige funktioner and then Browse to find and upload your image.

Only one image can be posted each reply of maximum 500 KB size, but if small enough you may be able to scan them as a group.

Thanks Homer.

Sincerely,
Paul

Hi everyone,

You have been such a great help in tracing Hilda, John Ivar, and Gerda Svensson.  Virginia sent me pictures of them and I wanted to share them with you to give a face to the names.  I am doing it in two posts since the size of the image is to great for one post.  Once again, thank you.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

And now the second image.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

Paul,

I looked at Chr. Marinus Petersen living in Overgade 29 in FT 1911. It is said he was born on 5 Sep. 1889 in Holstebro. Probably something is wrong about it since I can't find him there. ?

I have been trying to analyse the mother's letter and must say I am not sure whether Christian and Ninus are two different people.

Eva M

Hej Eva,

I also looked for Chr. Marinus Petersen in the Holstebro records (both births and confirmations) and couldn't find him.  I suspect that he is Gerda's father.  He was living at Overgade 29 in 1911 and Gerda was living there in 1912 when she got pregnant.  Hopefully someone will look up the records in either Århus or Odense and find that Hilda sued him for child support.

Thanks so much for all you help and interest.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

This is probably a coincidence but this person has the same birth date:

Aalborg, Gislum, Vognsild, Vognsild, , et Hus, 9, FT-1890
Hans Justesen   52   Gift   Husfader   Husmand   Tøndering Viborg Amt
Ane Marie Justesen   38   Gift   Husmoder      Ullits Aalborg Amt
Lone Marie Justesen   10   Ugift   datter      Vognsild, Aalborg Amt
An Kjerstine Justesen   7   Ugift   datter      Vognsild, Aalborg Amt
Marie Justesen   3   Ugift   datter      Vognsild, Aalborg Amt
Kristian Marinus Pedersen   *f. 5.sept.1889   Ugift   Plejesøn      Hørby Aalborg Amt

Hej John,

Same name, same birthdate, different place.  I don't think this is a coincidence but the Chr. Marinus Petersen from the 1911 census.  Mange tak.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

As I read the letter to Hilda from Ninus' parents, Ninus and Christian are two different persons. Hilda has apparently written a letter to Christian.

"We see in your letter down at Christian's that you (plural = Hilda and Ninus) have had a little daughter...

Greetings from Christian, he cannot travel anywhere, as he is very occupied. It would take him several days, and he is not able to do it..."

Obviously neither the parents, nor Hilda has heard from Ninus recently:

"We fear that someting has happened to him (= Ninus), as you don't hear from him under these circumstances."

Ninus is travelling around, obviously not willing to settle and get a permanent job.

Christian could be his brother or brother-in-law, he seems to have a family of his own.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Aalborg, Fleskum, Nørre Tranders, Øster Sundby, Nørre Tranders Sogn, 14a, 139, FT-1916, C7865
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Christian Nielsen   5-9-1870   Gift   Husfader   Gaardejer   
Ane Marie Nielsen   24-1-1870   Gift   Husmoder      
Johanne Nielsen   5-9-19-1897   Ugift   Barn      
Kathrine Nielsen   5-4-1899   Ugift   Barn      
Dreng   7-12-1905   Ugift   Barn      
Johanne Hansen   31-2-1902   Ugift   Tjenestepige      
Christian Andersen   12-10-1874   Ugift   Tjenestekarl      

Mange tak Inger og Gitte.  Now to look at the birth of Christian's children and see if Ninus was a witness at any of them.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

The one in Hørby was born to an unmarried woman Abelone Pedersen (image 20 - 1886-1892). He was born Kristiansen. His father was Peter Kristiansen lived in Hobro. Resembles Holstebro.

I wonder if it is Abelone who writes the letter or if it is a fostermother?

Eva M

Hej Eva,

Kristian Marinus Pedersen was born 5 Sep 1889 to the unmarried Karen Marie Pedersen and the alleged father Jens Nielsen, opslag 25 nr 21.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Michael Christian Nielsen's mother  Johanne Rasmussen was 43 in 1870 (image 5 - 1870-1892) She would be 86-87 years when writing the letter. It seems to me that the letter was written by a younger woman.

Eva M

Paul,

If you look at image 20 there is Kristian Marinus Kristiansen born on 5 Sep. 1888. He is the one I happened to find. I didn't notice it was the wrong year.

I think the two are cousins. Their mothers are sisters.

Eva M

hej Eva,

I did look at image 20 but think that the one in image 25 is the one we are looking for.  If genealogy was easy it would not be fun.  And the search goes on.  I am now trying to trace Virginia's father's Danish roots.  But that is for another post.

Med venlig hilsen og mange tak til dig
Paul

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2460766&searchname=polit_simple

Look at this!

Eva M

Hej Eva,

Very interesting since Munkebo is very close to Odense and we know that Ninus was there in April 1914.  Now to look at the Munkebo records for his marriage and whatever that tells us about him.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

He had a son Regner Helmar P. in Skt Stefans 1915 (image 23). It is said he had a civil marriage in 1914 (20/6) in Frederiksberg. The document is not on-line.

Eva M

In FT 1921 Bragegade (image 24) he is living with his son and housekeeper Karen Olsen. It is said he came from Odense in 1912.

Eva M

Hej Eva,

What a great job you have done for Virginia.  I really think that this is Gerda's father and we have finally followed him in time until he left København.  Virginia is overjoyed as are her sisters.  Now to find the birth of her father in Denmark, but I will put a seperate post.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

I think Aage Johansen was born in Kjødstrup in 1908 approximately. He went with his family to Nebraska.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Ftif2gif%2Eexe%3FT%3D%5C%5C%5C%5C192%2E168%2E100%2E11%5C%5Cimages%5C%5CT715%2D3389%5C%5CT715%2D33890286%2ETIF%26S%3D%2E5&pID=601556020096&name=Aage%26nbsp%3BJohansen&doa=Oct+09%2C+1923&port=Copenhagen&line=0016

I was looking for Hilda Swanson who died in 1963. By the way her sister Ida also went to the US.
I don't think there are any descendents of Hilda's siblings.

Eva M

Sorry I don't know if he was born in Kjødstrup. It was their last residence in Denmark. It should prbably be Kølstrup.

Hej Eva,

I was just about to post the places of birth.  Aage Johansen, according to the US records, was born 11 Aug 1907.  I had read Kjedstrup on the manifest but was not sure about the e.  Thanks for giving me another reading.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Kjødstrup must be = Køstrup, and then it could be:

According to Krabsen it could be either:

Køstrup Mark - Brenderup - Vends - Odense

or

Køstrup - Indslev - Vends - Odense

Aage Skovly Johansen born 11 Aug 1907 in Brenderup parish, Vends, Odense, opslag 29, to Harald Marius Peter Johansen and Ane Kirstine Thomsen (27 yrs old).

They were married in Helsinge church 4 June 1906.

Lissa

Hej Lissa,

Back to AO for a look.  Thanks for your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hej alle,

I found the birth of Aage Skovly Johansen in Brenderup, Vends, Odense.  He was born on 11 Aug 1907, opslag 29 nr 18.  Tak til alle.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

They married in Kirke Helsinge parish, Løve, Holbæk 4 June 1906, opslag 206.

Harald Marius Peter Johansen was from Buppel, Indslev parish, 26 yrs old, born 22 Aug 1879 to Lars Johansen and Maren Johansen born Rasmussen of Buppel.

Ane Kirstine Thomsen was from Vinde Helsinge (Kirke Helsinge parish), 26 yrs old, born 12 Feb 1880 to Dorthea Louise Thomsen of Vinde Helsinge.

Lissa

Mange tak for din Hjælp Lissa.  Virginia has a family tree, but it is unsourced and so I am suspicious of it.  I will check the facts in it.

Med venlig hilsen fra North Carolina
Paul

Paul,

Have a look at this:

Aalborg, Gislum, Ullits, Ullits, 5, 6, FT-1901, D4272
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Poul Kristensen 16-7-1858  Gift husfader gaardejer Nørre Rind, Viborg Amt
Petrea Pedersen 4-3-1858  Gift husmoder  Futhing, Viborg Amt
Johanne Marie Kristensen 30-3-1886  Ugift datter  Gjedsted, Viborg Amt
Kristine Kristensen 24-1-1894  Ugift datter  Ullits Sogn, Aalborg Amt
Kristian Marinus Pedersen 5-9-1889  Ugift  tjenestedreng Hobro, Randers Amt    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This must be the one in Copenhagen.

I can't find his birth in Hobro.

Eva M

Hej Eva,

Kristian Marinus Pedersen was born 5 Sep 1889 in Hørby, Hinstead, Aalborg, opslag 25 nr 21, mother unmarried Karen Marie Pedersen, 29, and alleged father Jens Nielsen.  Virginia has more births to unmarried mothers in her family tree than I have ever seen.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

I found his confirmation in Ullits sogn, Aalborg, 1892-1902, image 52. He is the one born in Hørby on 5 Sep. 1889. Mother Karen Marie Pedersen.


Eva M

Tak Eva,

By the way, Virginia is 78 and is really appreciative of all your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Who are Ninus' parents writing from Øster Sundby in 1913?

In their letter they write:

"It would be better if he [Ninus] could get a permanent job in a workshop (værksted)."

In the 1911 census from Odense Chr. Marinus Pedersen is a bricklayer (Murer - Arbejdsmand), and in Copenhagen he's a construction worker (Jord- og Betonarbejder):
FT-1916, København, Bragesgade, opslag 36-38
Skt Stefan, Sokkelund, København 1912-1921, opslag 281 # 17 (death of his wife Johanne Petrine, née Madsen).
FT-1921, København, Bragesgade, opslag 24

How does that job description fit with getting a job in a workshop? A pattern maker (modelsnedker) would more likely have a job in a workshop.

Best regards,
Inger T.

Hej Inger,

Questions such as yours are what make genealogy such fun.  I think we all feel like detectives.  Thanks for your input.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hi Paul,

I also thought about the workshop, a bricklayer doesn't need a workshop. I really don't know where a model carpenter works, if it is in a workshop only or a building site. I have a friend who used to a building carpenter but then changed to be a furniture carpenter (now he is a woodwork teacher) because it was too cold working outdoors.
In my imagination a model carpenter is someboby in a workshop but maybe I am wrong. Maybe he worked outdoors as well, if he couldn't find a job in a workshop. I mean to survive.
Perhaps it was just a coincidence with the Marinus living in Overgade 29 in FT 1911.
A paternity case would solve the problem. But is there one? If he was a witness at the baptism why didn't he recognise the child as his? Strange!

Eva M

Hi Eva and Inger,

You thought of something that I never thought about.  I still think that Christian Marius is the most likely candidate.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Descriptions of a pattern maker's (modelsnedker) job:

http://www.apprenticesearch.com/AboutTrades/GetTradeDetails?tradeId=12&TradeName=pattern-maker

http://www.es-c.dk/dtsark/modelsne-l.pdf

If there was a paternity/alimentation case, there must be information about in in records from Aarhus county, where the mother lived, with reference to the county where the alleged father lived. These records are kept at the Provicial Archives of Northern Jutland in Viborg:

http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning/landsarkivet_for_norrejylland

Ninus writes in his letter that he is going to send money, but does he mean directly to Hilda or via official channels? The letter doesn't tell.

Best regards,
Inger T.

I have a cousin who lives near Aarhus and have asked him to look up the paternity records for me.  I will let you all know what he finds.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

I e-mailed my cousin and he said he would look at the paternity records at the Aahus archives.  I will let you all know what he finds.  He is an excellent researcher.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

I think there are a lot of us who are really curious. Hopefully your cousin will find something.

I have looked for C.M. P's mother Karen Marie P. She was born in Hørby on 6 Oct. 1859 but I can't find her in Nørre Tranders in 1911. I haven't looked for her in FT 1916.


Eva M

Hej Eva,

I think that we should wait to find out what my cousin finds in the archives before we do any more research on Christian Marinus.  I really appreciate all the work and expertise you and the other members of this forum have done to help Virginia.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Hej alle,

I had an e-mail from my cousin and he is hoping to get to the archives in Aarhus and see if Hilda filed for child support.  As soon as I hear from him I will let you know what he finds.

mvh
Paul

My cousin found the protocol in the Viborg archives naming Gerda's father.  Here is his e-mail to me

      
i've found her - Bingo  !!
but as it is a protocol it is forbidden to take photocopies and it is written with so small letters it is also impossible to take a readable photo !

But but I have ordered a copy and a scanned copy of the page - will take some time !
But the father's name is Driver (profession) Kresten Valdemar Madsen of Maglene - latest adr was Sjællandsgade 32 in 1913 - are both mother and father from Aarhus - and when was the child born ?
The first statement dated ffrom 30/3-13 until 30/9-13 60 kr each time and the last payment was made 30)-23 until 30/3-24 of 78 kr.

din danske fætter Bjarne

It is the same father as her brother John Ivar Svensson.  What a story there must be behind her love for this man.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Virginia asked me to post this.  She is so thankful for all the help.

OH MY GOD, PAUL!    I AM JUST SHAKING and seem to have forgotten how to breathe!

This is the most wonderful news and I will phone my sisters this morning!  They will probably cry, I know.  We have a grandfather!   Can only hope my mother is resting easier now, too.

There is no way that we can ever thank you enough for such kind and generous help.  Please convey our most sincere thanks to Bjarne for us.

I know that Bjarne has incurred charges for the trip and the document copies and we want to reimburse him for those.  Will you please help me figure out how to do that - possibly a check by mail - and I'd need to know the amounts and an address?

I bet your smile is as big as mine this morning!

Will write more later - my typing is pretty clumsy right now . . . still shaking . . .

Most sincere thanks and hilsen, too!    Virginia


PS  Perhaps you will share the news with Anni, Inge, Eva and the others involved in this mystery on the forum - they will probably enjoy it, too . . .

mvh
Paul

Hej everyone,

Here is the document from the Aarhus archives that names Kristen Valdemar Larsen as the father of Virginia's mother Gerda.  Virginia is so happy with all the information that you have given her.  I am also so grateful for all your help.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

Kristen Valdemar Madsen, MAGLEMER. According to www.krabsen.dk Maglemer is a location in Hunseby sogn in Musse herred, Maribo amt.

Venlig hilsen Inge

Hej Inge,

Thanks for the clue.  Now to look at the 1916 census.  Hopefully it is a small parish.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Unfortunately it looks like the 1916 census was written in disappearing ink.  I noticed in the 1921 payments the term Rødby.  There is a Rødby sogn in Fuglse, Maribo, but I cannot find it in the 1921 census.  Any ideas?

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Am I stupid.  I looked for Rødby in landsogn rather than kobstad.  I guess I will have to give up looking for Kristen Valdemar Madsen in the 1921 census since Rødby is a city.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

A while ago, I was attempting to locate the person who wrote the letter from Øster Sundby.  In doing so, I tracked one of Kristen Valdemar Madsen's sisters to Maglemer but at the time I abandoned the effort because it appeared as if someone else must have been Gerda's father.

Not sure if it will be helpful now or not but here is what I found:

Sara Kristine Olivia Madsen , 20-11-1890 , Østofte in the police register.  Last entry shows that she moved to Maglemar:

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1949654&searchname=polit_simple (http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/index.php?option=com_sfup&controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1949654&searchname=polit_simple)

Her wedding in 1913 in Hunseby sogn:  1912-1923 Hunesby ops 164 number 6.  It shows that her parents, Jens Peder Madsen and Maren Johanne Hansen, are also living in Maglemer.

Thank you so much John.  Now to try tracing his sister. 

Med venlig hilsen og mange tak fra USA
Paul

Citat fra: Paul Løndahl-Smidt Dato 02 Jun 2013 - 04:22

Here is the document from the Aarhus archives that names Kristen Valdemar Larsen as the father of Virginia's mother Gerda.  

What the document shows is that Kristen Valdemar Madsen of Maglemer paid child support to Hilda Svensson in Aarhus (the first instalment 60 kr. in April/May 1913), but I think it must be for the son born 1910. Remember - in May 1912 he paid 50 kr. which was forwarded from Copenhagen to Odense (found by Eva M):

AO, Familieretslige sager i København, BJ-Journal, Fra 1912 Til 1912, BJ-Journal med register 1912 1 - 1912 482, opslag 10, left hand page.

You might be able to find information about Gerda's father or the residence of her mother 10 months prior to birth in the birth registration protocols (Fødselsanmeldelsesprotokoller) at Erhvervsarkivet in Aarhus:

http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/kirkeboger_-_en_vejledning/kirkeboger_pa_erhvervsarkivet

- but you may as well end up with the same info already found in the church books.

The ony 100 % proof would be a paternity case (if there is one):
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning

Summing up:

Ninus writes from Odense  vs.  K.V. Madsen lives in Maglemer
Ninus' parents write from Østersundby  vs.  K. V. Madsen's parents live in Maglemer

Best regards,
Inger T.

Arkivinstitution:  Landsarkivet for Nørrejylland
Arkivskaber(e):  Fødselsanstalten i Jylland
Arkivserie:  Ugifte mødre og deres børn - Indlæggelse  1910-1935
Eksemplar:  Original, Papir m.m.
Indhold fra:  1910 
Indhold til:  1920 
Indhold beskrives med:  Fødedato (År, Måned, Dag, Løbenr.)
Nr:  1997/113-114

Gerda was born at Fødselsanstalten, wasn't she? This archive may contain some information as well , or does it contain just the same information as the archive suggested by you, Inger.

The protocol is called unmarried mothers and their children - admission.

Eva M

Tusind tak Inger og Eva.  My cousin Bjarne is mailing me a DVD from the Aarhus archives that might shed more light on Gerda's father.  I should have it in about a week and will let you know what it contains.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

Citat fra: Inger Toudal Dato 02 Jun 2013 - 18:00

The only 100 % proof would be a paternity case (if there is one):
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/faderskab_-_en_vejledning

- or if you find another man paying child support to Hilda Svensson.

It's hard to say whether the protocol from Fødselsanstalten i Jylland at the Provincial Archives in Viborg could contain more info than Fødselsanmeldelsesprotokollen for Aarhus Købstad at Erhvervsarkivet in Aarhus. Both may possibly contain info about the alleged father.

I found Kristen Valdemar Madsen's father Jens P. Madsen in the 1916 census:
AO, Folketællinger, 1916, Landsogn, Hunseby, opslag 68, no 19.

He's a widower (Em 'Enkemand'). His wife Maren Johanne Hansen died 8 Dec. 1912
(Hunseby 1912-1923, opslag 243, no 10).

Best regards,
Inger T.

Paul,

So it wasn't Maren who wrote the letter. We are back on square zero it seems.

Eva M

I think the father is Chr. Marinus Petersen who was living at Overgade 29, Odense in the 1911 census.  Since Hilda moved to that address and got pregnant sometime in late 1912, he is an obvious candidate.  Hopefully the DVD my cousin is sending me will have the answer.

Med venlig hilsen og mange tak
Paul