Half brother of John Christian Winther

[James Spiegel]

My Grandfather John Cristian Winther born 19 June 1879 claimed he was to meet his half brother when he came to the USA. They never meet up with each other. John's mother was Julie M. Winther but he lived with her brother Christian Fredrik Laurits Winther. So I would like to know if Christian Fredrik Winther had other children? Would any be male that my Grandfather John Christian would consider his half brother. What was the name? Did he ever come over to the USA? What year?  Thank you, Jim Spiegel

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi James,

It's a bit difficult to try to help you, if you don't have some place names etc. Can you provide that?

When did he emigrate?

Lissa

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi James

Svendborg, Langelands Sønder, Magleby, Nordenbro, et huus, 45, FT-1845, B7132
Navn: Alder: Civilstand: Stilling i husstanden: Erhverv: Fødested:
Johan Winter 42  Gift  rokkedreier Tranekiær
Sophie Frederikke Winter 42  Gift  giordemoder Stige ved Odense
Christian F. Laurits Winter 13  Ugift  deres børn Tullebølle
Hermandine Winter 11  Ugift  deres børn Tullebølle
Theodor Winter 7  Ugift  deres børn Tullebølle
Jørgen Winter 5  Ugift  deres børn Tullebølle
Emilie Winter 3  Ugift  deres børn Tullebølle
Julie Winter 2  Ugift  deres børn i sognet [Maglebye]
 
And here she is in census 1860
Svendborg, Langelands Sønder, Magleby, Nordenbro By, en gaard, 57, FT-1860, b0501
Navn:   Alder:   Civilstand:   Stilling i husstanden:   Erhverv:   Fødested:
Hans Chr. Madsen   35    Gift   gaardmand, huusfader      her i sognet [Magleby]
Ane Christine Christensen   31    Gift   hans kone      Tullebølle
Hansine Annine Hansen   9    Ugift   deres børn      her i sognet [Magleby]
Marie Martheline Hansen   7    Ugift   deres børn      do [Magleby]
Christen Olsen Hansen   3    Ugift   deres børn      do [Magleby]
Lars Peter Hansen   3    Ugift   deres børn      do [Magleby]
Hans Larsen   43    Ugift   tjenestekarl      Fodslette
Marthe Jørgensen   16    Ugift   tjenestepige      Vemmeløv, Sorø
Julie Magdalene Winther   17    Ugift   do [tjenestepige]      her i sognet [Magleby]

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Here is the brother in 1880:

Sorø, Alsted, Lynge, Topshøj By, Lynge sogn, et hus, 1, FT-1880, B0480
Christian Frederik Laurits Winther 46  Gift husfader, kurvemager  Tullebølle, Svenborg Amt
Martine Christine Winther født Hansen 54  Gift hans hustru  Svenborg
Leon Valdemar Seier Haslund 8  Ugift deres pleiebørn  Slagelse
Johan Christian Winther 1  Ugift deres pleiebørn  Kjøbenhavn

Pleiebørn=plejebørn=fosterchildren

Regards
Ruth

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

.. in 1890 he still Johan Christian Winther still lives with his uncle and aunt in Topshøj, Lynge parish, Alsted Herred, Sorø Amt.

Look www.arkivalieronline.dk choose Folketællinger/Søg i Folketællinger - there you choose: 1890/landsogn/Sorø/Alsted/Lynge - press "hent oplysninger" and choose opslag 104. Its family nr. 10

I think Johan Chistians "halfbrother" would be Leon Valdemar whom he grew up with.

Regards
Ruth

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

According to Johan Christian Winther's confirmation in Lynge in 1893, opslag 88 nr 12, he was born on 19 Jun 1879 and baptized in Skt Stefans, København 6 Jul 1879, 1878-1882, opslag 79 nr 208.  No father named in the baptism record but I can't read the notes.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Lissa Pedersen]

Entered in Magleby
churchbook as per the municipal
corporation's (?? not sure whether this is correct translated?) letter of
27 August 1879
Reply 1st
September 1879

The mother 30 (years) old
10 months earlier x Magleby
parish on Langeland
Reported 18 July 1879

He is on opslag 48 in Magleby parish, Langeland Sønder, Svendborg:

Johan Christian Vinter baptised in Copenhagen Skt. Stefan's parish 6 July - unmarried Julie Magdalene Vinter staying in Skt. Stefan's parish in Copenhagen.

Lissa

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi
Julie Magdalene Winther lived as a housemaid in København according to census 1880 and 1885.

I have not found her in FT 1890 as it is not searchable.
Do you know where she lived with her brother? I am not sure he lived the rest of his life in Lynge.

Regards
Ruth

[Homer Ficken]

John Christian has been researched before:
http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php?topic=11044.0

I don't find any record of a Leon Haslund's emigration, and wonder if Julie Winther may have had other children?

[Ruth Steenberg Rasmussen]

Hi James
I just saw H
omer Fickens information

John Christian has been researched before:
http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php?topic=11044.0

It would have saved me a lot of work if you had told you had all these informations.

Ruth

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi,

I wonder why James never replies and comments all the info he has got!!!!!!!!!

Not a word from him!!

Lissa

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

I have found some more information but since he doesn't say "Thank you", I guess I won't bother posting it.

I am one American with Danish roots who does appreciate all that has been done for me.  I always reply to posts.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[James Spiegel]

Sorry to everone envolved. This dumb American just could't figure out how to do the reply. I even had my office girl looking over my shoulder and we just didn't get it !!! The problem was that google was transulating wrong and we just were not looking in the right place. I know John Winther was on the Denmark 1901 census. He also was on the Wisconsin 1905 census. Married in Racine, Wisconsin in 1907. He always told me he came over to the USA and was to meet his half brother in New York. His brother never showed up and John had only 10 cense in his pocket. So his half brother would have to come over before John did. We couldn't find John on a ship list. So I was wondering if we could find his half brother on a ship list. Or maybe this is just a story John made up. Thank you to everbody!!!!!  James

[Jens Chr. Bay]

Hi

I have some information about Johan Christian Winther, b. 03 MAY 1803 in Tranekaer parish and d. 16 JAN 1864 in Soendenbro, Magleby parish. - He is grandfather to the above-mentioned Joh(a)n Christian Winther born 19 June 1879.

Church registers for Tranekaer parish are not available until 1813. - "Christian Winther in Jaegergaarden near Tranekaer Castle" is confirmed in Tranekaer 1818 (sheet 52). Here is stated that he is born 05 MAY 1803. Under parents/master: "Foster father Generallieutenant Count af Ahlefeldt Laurvig". (Count Frederik Ahlefeldt-Laurvig, 1760-1832, owned Tranekaer Castle 1791-1832). Johan Christian Winthers mother Casta Magdalene Johansdatter Moeller, 1782-1854, is not mentioned in the church register in 1818.

Jaegergaarden is 4-6 houses a few hundred meters north of Tranekaer Castle housing servants, smiths, hunters, etc. - The houses are now broken down.

In a probate March 1806 (after her father Johan Rasmus Moeller) is Casta Magdalene "widow after hunter Burchard Albrecht Winther". (?) - But Burchard Albrecht Winther dies 1810/11. In the probate January 1811 his wife Casta Magdalene is living in Copenhagen. Child: Johan Christian Winther 7. - In a probate July 1816 (after her mother Giertrud Margrethe Landt) is Casta Magdalene married to a sailor from Copenhagen. They live in Lindelse parish, Langeland. (All probates are under "Langeland Amtmand").

Most likely Count Frederik Ahlefeldt-Laurvig is the biological father of Johan Christian Winther, 1803-1864. And maybe the marriage between Casta Magdalene Johansdatter Moeller and Burchard Albrecht Winther has been a pro forma marriage (arrangedby the Count?). - Count Frederik Ahlefeldt-Laurvig was known for his many children borned out of wedlock.

Casta Magdalene Johansdatter Moeller died 12 FEB 1854, 71½ yrs., as leading midwife ("distriktsjordemoder") in Lindelse (divorced from her (drunken?) sailor).

- - - - -

Casta Magdalene Johansdatter Moellers parents are Johan Rasmus Moeller, 1729-1806, smith, and Giertrud Margrethe Landt, 1752-1816, midwife. They lived in Jaegergaarden near Tranekaer Castle. Johan is borned in Nyborg (Fyn), son of goldsmith Ib Moeller, d. 1762. - Giertruds ancestors can be followed back to year 1600 through:

Joergen Joergensen (Landt), 1724-1756, parish clerk in Vissenbjerg (Fyn). - Son af:

Sara Brock, 1695-1767, in later marriage rectors wife in Hesselager (Fyn). - Daughter of:
Herman Nielsen Brock, 1650-1727, shopkeeper in Kerteminde (Fyn). Married to Dorthe Andersdatter Bager, 1654-1720. - She is daughter of:
Anders Jeppesen Bager, 1631?-1676, shopkeeper in Kerteminde. - Son of:
Jesper Jacobsen Bager, (1600)-1672, shopkeeper in Kerteminde.

Best regards,
Jens Chr. Bay

[Jane C]

James, you say Johan/John Winther/Winter is found in the 1901 census in Denmark. Are you sure it's the right man?

1920 US Census says he immigrated 1899. Shawano, Ward 1, Shawano, Wisconsin. John Winters [John Winther], 40. Born about 1880 in Denmark. Year of immigration: 1899 [1889]. Watchman, box factory. Spouse: Emma Winters, 40. Evelyn 11, Lillian 8, Hilda 7, Emma 5.

1930 US Census still in Shawano, John Winther (with wife Emma, daughters Lillian and Emma) says he immigrated in 1895. Still watchman in a box factory.

I did not find an immigration record for him on Ancestry.com. There are many Winthers/Winters in New York. I did not see a Leon or a Valdemar Winther in Ancestry census records.

13 September 1944 US Citizen (Naturalization) Record. John Christian Winther age 65, 408 Weed Street, Shawano, Wisconsin. Formerly Chicago, Illinois.  Born 19 June 1879, Copenhagen, Denmark. 11-57369, A.R. 55160, JH: 9/13/1944, 3786--P-1079. [Note: does the full record show the date of immigration?]

[James Spiegel]

Thank You so much everyone. I need to study all this information as it will raise more question.            Jane, I will re check the 1901 census, but all the other info you had is correct.  I would like to look into John's half brother. John Winther told me when he came over to the US he was to meet his half brother, but they never connected with each other. John said he only had 10 cent in his pocket at the time.. Thanks again, I'll be back with more questions, as this is getting interesting.     Thank You All, Jim Spiegel

[Inger Toudal]

Here's the 1901 census: http://www.sa.dk/ao/billedviser?bsid=21592#21592,2053061

Johan Christian is Landvæsenselev.

This could be him, registered twice, it seems, in the Danish emigration protocols http://www.udvandrerarkivet.dk/udvandrerprotokollerne/

Navn:    Winther, Johan Hansen   Stilling:    Landvæsenselev
Alder:    22   Bestemmelsessted:    Vermillon
Kontrakt nr.:    257000   Forevisningsdato:    7/9/1901
Fødested:    Kbh.   Fødesogn:    København
Sidste oph.sogn:    Tryggelev (Langeland)   Sidste oph. amt:    Svendborg
Sidste oph.sted:    Tryggelev   Bestemmelses land:    USA
Bestemmelses by:    Vermillion   Bestemmelses stat:    South Dakota
Skibsnavn:    Indirekte
IDkode:    I0102V0207

Navn:    Winther, Johan Hansen   Stilling:    Arbejder
Alder:    22   Bestemmelsessted:    Vermillon
Kontrakt nr.:    380100   Forevisningsdato:    10/31/1901
Fødested:    Kbh.   Fødesogn:    København
Sidste oph.sogn:    Tryggelev (Langeland)   Sidste oph. amt:    Svendborg
Sidste oph.sted:    Tryggelev   Bestemmelses land:    USA
Bestemmelses by:    Vermillion   Bestemmelses stat:    South Dakota
Skibsnavn:    Indirekte
IDkode:    I0102V0413

Best regards,
Inger Toudal