Help with reading please etc

[Peter Jones]

Please have a look at the Kirkebog - in Roskilde Amt, Syv Sogn: (1835-1849) FS image 66, entry number 7.
The marriage of Peder Johansen and Sophie Johansdatter.
I am interested in more information to try and discover the ancestors of this Peder (alos known as Peter) Johansen.  He got Sophie pregnant in Vibye (Wubye) in Syv, ran away to Copenhagen, returned to marry her on 7 December 1844, but it seems left again before the 1845 Census, and the couple later divorced.  I am descended from their daughter, Ane Marie Petersen.

I note that the the vaccination dates are given for each of them in this record, which is the main evidence I have to go on, and the fact that Ped/ter Johansen was age  27 at the time of marriage.

Regarding the vaccination information - am I understanding correctly that the place of vaccination for him was in Roskilde - as the county name ? or the city?
What is the word before Roskilde?  "Doc. for K__________ af Roeskilde. " Is it just the doctor's name, or a place name?

Under "Forloverne"  "Huusmand Anders Sørensen og (Enkemand??) Niels Poulsen begge af Vibye. " Correct?
Neither of these names mean anything to me yet.

Was there any register of divorces kept in parishes or counties?

Thanks for any help you can give.  This in one of my 2 greatest blocks in going back further in my Danish family history.  I don't need any information on Sophie Johansdatter's side.

[Hanne Poulsen]

Hi Peter

1) on the vaccination, my best guess is that it reads Doc. Rauchmaul from Roskilde. You will find the doctor in the census 1801 og 1834 in Roskilde
Roskilde, Sømme, Roskilde Købstad, Torvet, No 1, en Familie, 1, FT-1834, C7570
Navn:     Alder:     Civilstand:       Stilling i husstanden:       Erhverv:       Fødested:
Andreas Rauchmaul    69    Enkemand       Districhtschirurg    
Amalie Rauchmaul    30    Ugift       Dater    
Carl Cochanfry Schyt    28    Ugift       Candidatus Chirurgie og Amunuensis    
Sophie Lovise Breum    24    Ugift       Tienestefolk    
Niels Rasmussen    23    Ugift       Tienestefolk    
Karen Andersdatter    22    Ugift       Tienestefolk    
Anne Jensdatter    18    Ugift       Tienestefolk

I am not sure how large an area the doctor would have covered vaccinationwise. It might be useful to try out a few parishes in Roskilde amt, to see which parises he covered around 1819.

2) I agree on your reading of the witness of the wedding.

3) you might try the military records on Peter Johansen.

4) you should be able to find documents on the divorce - you may ask this specific question in the forum. I am sure someone will be able to provide advice on this.

Kind regards
Hanne

[Mogens Hansen]

Doc-ter R ....... Roskilde, R ... is the doctor's name he is from the town of Roskilde.

Roskilde is both the town name and county name

Enkemand  =  Widower
There is no record of devorced people
Peder Johansen born July 9, 1819 in Roskilde
look: Vor Frue sogn, Sømme Herred, Roskilde amt,  24, No. 10

[Hanne Poulsen]

You might find information on the divorce in the archives. However the information would not be availalble on the internet.

General information on legislation and documents, in Danish, http://sa.dk/content/dk/mest_brugte_arkivalier/sadan_bruger_du_de_mest_brugte_arkivalier/skilsmisse_-_en_vejledning

Please find an un-official translation of part of the text below
"Divorce - a guide

Divorces also occurred in the past. Prior to 1797, divorce cases handled by an ecclesiastical court. After 1797, divorces completed under the civil law. You could get a divorce, either by grant or judgment. You can find divorce cases at both the National Archives and provincial archives.

Information in divorce cases are different depending on which period the divorce has taken place.

In divorce cases, information about the divorced, their marital status and whether any children of the marriage and conditions of the divorce.

A distinction is made between divorces obtained by judgment or decree.
Divorce by judgment

     1797-1919:
     Divorce proceedings can be found in domprotokollerne in legal officer archive.

Archives concerning Roskilde amt can be found at the National Archives.
Divorce decree

     1827-1970:
     Divorce decree was issued by the prefect."


Kind regards
Hanne

[Hanne Poulsen]

You may need to check on Peter Johansen Peder Johansen born July 9, 1819 in Roskilde Vor Frue sogn, Sømme Herred, Roskilde amt,  24, No. 10

As at his "konfirmation" the vaccination date it is noted as 1821. Roskilde Vor Fru 1829-1866 160 no 8

Kind regards
Hanne

[Peter Jones]

Thank you Hanne and Mogens for your help.

It looks like the Vor Frue one is not the correct one since the vaccination dates don't match.  Ped/ter Johansen  was vaccinated 26 July 1819.  From his age at marriage I am looking for one born 1816-1818.

It seems that he was not born in any of the Roskilde City parishes -could not find him there.
I have already looked at several others further away without much success.

I am currently looking at the Peder Johansen christened 5 January 1817 in Kirke Hvalso with parents Johan Pedersen and Maren Olsdatter.  But I cannot find a Konfirmation there.
It seems that he left that parish on 11 November 1832 to go to Ousted.  And then, aged 17, he left there on 1st November 1834 to go to Tolstrup.  I haven't got any further yet, but if I can eventually trace him to Syv by 1844 I know I'll have the right one.

Thanks for the advice about divorces.  I can only research online at the moment _ It's a long way to swim to Denmark (from Australia)   Although if I end up frustrated enough, and saved enough money I could pay a researcher to find the information, but not at the moment.

[Hanne Poulsen]

Hi Peter

a) The forum on www slaegtogdata "Opslag i bøger og på arkiver mv"  may be useful. In case you have a well defined request you may be able to find someone who will find the data/document for you.

b) The military records (lægdsruller) might help you find Peder Johansen. However, you would need at least one place and date that he stayed there - and I am not even sure he statyed in Syv, as it is noted at the wedding that he is living in Copenhagen (and the lægdsrulle from Copenhagen in the relevant period is not yet on the internet). Lægdsruller http://sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_lagdsruller including a guide in Danish.

Kind regards
Hanne

[Peter Jones]

Thank you Hanne so much for these military links.
I have tried them a couple of times, but even with using Google Translate I was not very successful in getting anywhere after following a few links.  There just didn't seem to be records in the timefram for Roskilde.

I know Ped/ter Johansen was definitely in Syv.  I have the following movements - some names I probably have misread eg Mamerup , M maybe an N etc.  Allerop  it looks like that, not Allerslev.

11 May 1832 arrives in Særløse from Mammerup (?) FS image 156, Rokilde, Særløse 1820-1849
11 November 1832, leaves Særløse to go to Ousted Sogn.
1 November 1834, age 17, leaves to go to Tolstrup (Særløse )
1 May 1838, age 22, leaves Særløse to go to Allerop ?     FS image 182, Rokilde, Særløse 1820-1849
1 May 1839, age 23, leaves Særløse  to go to Wibyegaard (Viby, in Syv) FS image 182, Rokilde, Særløse 1820-1849
He left Vibygaard, Syv Sogn on 19th August 1844 aged 27 for Kjobenhavn, prior to the marriage.

As for Copenhagen. I won't bother trying to find him there.  I can't find him on a census which matches with a birth in Særløse.  Interesting though, his daughter (Ane Marie Petersen) ended up living there after her marriage, and my great grandfather was born there (Tolstrup, Særløse )

It would be nice to know if Peder Johansen married again, had more children, immigrated, or just passed away.  But at least now I know who his parent are and I can follow the train backwards a little further.