Mystery Location

[Homer Ficken]

Attached is an excerpt from an 1883 Hamburg to New York passenger list.  

My question concerns passengers 94-97. (The surname looks like Werter but was actually Wolder)

The father was born in Odense, the girls in Copenhagen.  The wife Martha is a second wife, nationality unknown.

In "The Country in which they are Citizens" column other Danish passengers on the manifest are listed from "Danemark" and there are passengers listed from Germany, Russia, Austria, Bohemia, etc. but no other location at all similar to that listed for this family.

It looks something like "Suesria"??   Somewhat similar to Suedois, which I think is French for Sweden?  Any ideas?


[vedhæfting slettet af admin]

[Inger Toudal]

Is this not the father?

Odense, Odense, Odense Købstad, Vestergade, 38, Forhuuset 2den Etage, 4155, FT-1870, D4595
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Peter Christian Petersen 34  Gift Huusfader Sadelmager Odense
Ana Dorthea født Rasmussen 35  Gift Huusmoder  Middelfart
Agnes Rasmine Kirstine Petersen 7  Ugift Barn  Odense
Theodor Peter Christian Petersen 3  Ugift Barn  Odense
Marius Peter Lauritz Jantzen 18  Ugift Lærling  Odense
Niels Ernst Wolder 16  Ugift Lærling  Frederitz

He's an apprentice of upholsterer Petersen, according to the census his birthplace is Fredericia.

Please see Fredericia Michaelis 1851-1868, opslag 9, # 15, born 8 June 1853.

His parents in the 1850 census:

Vejle, Elbo, Fredericia Købstad, Fredericia, Bjergegade, Nordre Ende No. 160, 136-F1, FT-1850, C3833
Name: Age: Marital status: Position in household: Occupation: Birthplace:
Nels Jensen Wolder 37  Gift  Daglejer og huusfader Rukøbing
Welhelmine Gerharth 26  Gift  hans kone Frederitz

In Niels Ernst's birth record his parents are butcher Niels Jensen Wolder and wife Wilhelmine Ernstine née Gerhard, 30 years old.

Best regards,

Inger Toudal

[Homer Ficken]

Thanks for your interest Inger.   Yes, I have those records:  

The father Niels Ernst Wolder was born 1853 in Fredericia.

The girls were born 1874 and 1876 in Copenhagen.  Their mother was Ane Johanne Ditlevsen, born 1847 in Ore, Odense.

In 1880, the girls were "foster children" in a Catholic home in Fredericia, but I can not locate the father in 1880.

I think Ane Johanne died and Niels remarried 1880-1883, and hope the mystery location might lead to that info.

[Kirsten Kjellerup]

I do not know if it's any help, but I read the place as 'Suevia'.

If the father lived in Copenhagen, he might have gone to Sweden  when his wife died and perhaps remarried there.

Just a possibility!

Kind regards
Kirsten Kjellerup

[Homer Ficken]

Thank you Kirsten; that is certainly possible.

Was 'Suevia' sometimes used to identify Sweden?

[Kirsten Kjellerup]

No, I have never seen it that way before, but it is the closest I can come to an interpretation.

Sweden is 'Sverige' in Swedish and Danish, and Schweden i German.

But my advice would still be to try to look for him in Sweden. Perhaps the location should be read 'Sueria' - that would be very close to the Swedish pronounciation of Sverige.

Kind regards
Kirsten Kjellerup

[Homer Ficken]

Thanks Kirsten.  Sweden or Schweden is not listed for anyone on the manifest, so maybe they just wrote what they thought the wife said.

[Inger Toudal]

In your query you wrote:

The father was born in Odense, the girls in Copenhagen.  The wife Martha is a second wife, nationality unknown.

That's why I looked up the records for you.

[Homer Ficken]

In your query you wrote:

The father was born in Odense, the girls in Copenhagen.  The wife Martha is a second wife, nationality unknown.

That's why I looked up the records for you.

Sorry Inger, I must have been thinking of the first wife! 

[Seidi Albertsen]

Homer, have you found them in any of the USA Census records?

Med venlig hilsen
Seidi Albertsen

[Homer Ficken]

Homer, have you found them in any of the USA Census records?

Med venlig hilsen
Seidi Albertsen

The elders do not appear in any U.S. censuses:

The father Niels Ernst was naturalized in 1887 and is listed in the 1889-90 Brooklyn directories as an upholsterer. 

Hermanda became Amanda and married Thomas Goodwin in 1890. 

The 1892 Brooklyn state census lists Agnes Wolder living with Thomas and Amanda, but niether Niels Ernst or Martha Wolder are listed in 1892, and only Amanda and Thomas are listed in later U.S. censuses.  It's possible the others died or returned to Denmark (or Sweden?)

[Flemming A. Aasklint]

Hi Homer

I read it as Suesia which is Sweden in Latin.

[Homer Ficken]

Hi Homer

I read it as Suesia which is Sweden in Latin.

Thanks Flemming.  It seems odd that they would list it that way, but I guess Sweden is the logical answer.