Philip Abelin, born Copenhagen 1786

[Craig Mitchell]

Hello,

My 4 x great grandfather, Philip Abelin, was born in Copenhagen in 1786.
He moved to England in 1807 and joined the British Army's 60th Regiment of Light Infantry.
He married Mary Maybee in Isle of Wight, England in 1818.
His daughter Martha Magdelene Abelin was born in Nova Scotia, Canada in 1821.
Philip was discharged from the British Army in 1823, aged 37.
I believe that after he was discharged from the army Philip and his family moved to the Isle of Wight, England although I can only find evidence of his wife and child from the English records.
I am very keen to find out about Philip's life and family before he left Copenhagen. I am unsure as to whether the name Abelin is in fact Danish and it could be that his paternal ancestors were immigrants to Denmark.

I would be very grateful if anyone could help me. Tak.

Many Thanks,
Craig Mitchell
Edinburgh
Scotland

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi Craig,

Could be this one in 1801 - from www.ddd.dda.dk:

kbhv, København (Staden), Snarens Kvarter, Snarens Kvarter, , Matr. 90, 427, FT-1801
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Jens Hansen 34  Gift Lejer og Huusbonde Skræddermester  (master tailor)
Inger Pedersdatter 44  Gift hans Kone  
Philip Conrad Abelin 16  Ugift (unmarried) - Skrædderlærl. (tailor's apprentice)

Lissa

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Could this be Philip Conrad and his parents.
All persons in the household

kbhv, København (Staden), Købmager Kvarter, Kristen Bernikovs Gade, , 296, 5, FT-1787
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Christopher Avelsen   32    Gift   Hosbonde   Snedker Mester   
Ane Peters Datter   32    Gift   Konen      
Philip Conradt   3    Ugift   Deres Søn      
Pet.Simon Schandorph   5    Ugift   Fattig Barn taget at føde

and perhaps Christopher and his second wife in the 1801 census.  Note that the age is correct andf so is the occupation.
All persons in the household

kbhv, København (Staden), Klædebo Kvarter, Klædebo Kvarter, , Matr. 185, 818, FT-1801
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Christopher Abelin   47    Gift   Huusbond   Snedkersv.   
Christine Møller   26    Gift   hans Kone      
Christian Abelin   3    Ugift   deres Søn      
Christina Abelin   1    Ugift   Deres Datter      

Sincerely,
Paul      

[Lissa Pedersen]

Could then be these:

CHRISTOPHER ABELIN Pedigree
 Male   Family
Event(s):
Birth:  
Christening:  
Death:  
Burial:  
Marriages:
 Spouse:  CHRISTINE MOLLER  Family
 Marriage:  02 OCT 1796   Garnisons Sogn, Kobenhavn, Kobenhavn, Denmark

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.  
Source Information:
Batch No.:  Dates:  Source Call No.:  Type:  Printout Call No.:  Type:  

M218548  1694 - 1816  0044366   Film  NONE    
Sheet: 00

Lissa

[Craig Mitchell]

Tak så meget Lissa og Paul for jeres svar. Jeg er meget taknemmelig. Denne information giver mig noget at arbejde på nu. Henvisningen til Philip Conrad være en Skræddersvend ringer også sandt, som jeg har hørt, at Philip ganske muligvis arbejdede som skrædder på Isle of Wight, England på et tidspunkt efter sin udskrivelse fra hæren. Jeg har aldrig kunnet finde nogen bekræftelse af denne, men bør Philip Conrad Abelin og min oldefar være én og samme person (og jeg tror, ​​det kunne være) så giver det god mening!

Kender du, hvis navnet Abelin faktisk er af dansk oprindelse?

Mange tak,

Craig

Thank you so much Lissa and Paul for your replies. I am very grateful. This information gives me something to work on now. The reference to Philip Conrad being a tailor's apprentice also rings true as I have heard that Philip quite possibly worked as a tailor on the Isle of Wight, England at some time after his discharge from the army. I have never been able to find any confirmation of this but should Philip Conrad Abelin and my great grandfather be one and the the same person (and I think it could be) then it makes perfect sense!! 

Do you know if the name Abelin is in fact of Danish origin?

Many Thanks,

Craig

[Ralph Rasmussen]

The 1796 marriage (October 2 the betrothal) is in the Garnisons parish register of marriages 1780-1799, opslag (fiche) 93.

The same day (October 2, 1796) widower Christopher Abelin and miss Christine Møller, 'employed by?' adjutant general Gelmyden.
Guarantors carpenter Jens Brørup, master painter Jens Groot Havermann

In the November 9th marriage record (1769-1815, opslag 116) Kirstine's father appears to be Rasmus Møller. Christopher Abelin's wife's death could easily be in some other Copenhagen parish.

'Med venlig hilsen'
-Ralph

[Craig Mitchell]

Mange tak Ralph til dine oplysninger. Jeg føler mig sikker på nu, at Christopher Abelin er min 5 x oldefar.

Videre til sin søn Philip er at tilslutte den britiske hær i 1807 ...... Jeg tror, ​​han var faktisk en krigsfange, som indehaves af den britiske efter Slaget på Reden i 1807, i modsætning til at have været en frivillig emigrant til England.

Philip var i det 60. Regiment of Light Infantry, et regiment bemandet næsten udelukkende af udenlandske lejesoldater og krigsfanger. De fleste af officererne var briterne. Han sluttede sig til regimentet i havet havnen i Lymington, Hampshire, og havde opnået rang af sergent, da han blev udskrevet.

Jeg spekulerer på, om der er en dansk rekord eller andet sted af fanger, der tilbageholdes af den britiske.

Jeg er meget spændt på at kunne finde ud af mere om mine danske forfædre.

Mange tak,
Craig


Thank you very much Ralph for your information. I feel sure now that Christopher Abelin is my 5 x great grandfather.

Further to his son Philip's joining the British Army in 1807...... I think  he was actually a Prisoner of War, held by the British after the Battle of Copenhagen of 1807, as opposed to having been a voluntary emigrant to England.

Philip was in the 60th Regiment of Light Infantry, a regiment manned almost entirely by foreign mercenaries and Prisoners of War. Most of the officers were British. He joined the regiment in the sea port of Lymington, Hampshire, and had attained the rank of Sergeant when he was discharged.

I wonder if there is a Danish record somewhere of the prisoners held by the British.

I am very excited to be able to find out more about my Danish ancestors.

Many Thanks,
Craig

[Jane C]

So interesting, that he could be a prisoner of war and taken to England!

A few "hits" from Ancestry.com - includes a possible third marriage for Christopher:

Christoph Abelon Marriage Date: 27 Oct 1784  in Kobenhavn (Garnisons Sogn) Spouse: Anne Marie Pedersdr

Christopher Abbelin Marriage Date: 9 NOV 1796 in Kobenhavn (Garnisons) Spouse: Kirstine Rasmusdr (Møller)

Christopher Abelen Marriage Date: 10 FEB 1804 in Kobenhavn (Vor Frue) Previously Married: Yes Spouse: Florentine Berentsen


CHILDREN

Christian Martin Born 25 mar 1798 Christening Date: 6 apr 1798 Frue or Vor Frue Kirke, Kobenhavn Father: Christopher Abelin Mother: Christine Moller

Kirstine Born 11 aug 1803 Cristening Date: 28 aug 1803 at Frue/or Vor Frue Kirke, Kobenhavn Father: Christopher Abelin Mother: Christine Moller

FYI - International Genealogical Index (IGI) lists a Christopher Abelin in London in 1726 (son John Christopher being baptised at Saint Anne Soho) - so that the name Abelin in England certainly predates Peter being there.

[Ralph Rasmussen]

As I read the 1784 marriage, Christoph Abelon was a laborer, not a master carpenter (1769-1815, opslag 67).  He or his bride was a member of the Danish congregation.

mvh
-Ralph

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Craig,

I have found the baptism of Philip Conrad on 18? Oct 1784, Garrison, Sokkelund, København, opslag 164.  His parents are Christopher Abelin and Anne Marie Pedersdatter.

Sincerely,
Paul

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi Paul,

I suppose that you mean Garnisons parish?

Lissa

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Thanks for correcting me Lissa.

Med venlig hilsen
Paul

[Craig Mitchell]

Thanks Paul, Lissa, Ralph and Jane for taking the trouble to continue searching on my behalf, I'm very grateful.

Does anyone have any idea as to where I could find confirmation that Philip was indeed a prisoner of war and taken to England as such?.......or should I place a seperate query on the forum in the hope that someone may be able to point me in the right direction.

I'm sure, given that the Danes had been fighting the British, that the only way Philip could have ended up in England would have been if he was forced to go there. 

Do you all agree that the Christopher Avelsen, Christoph Abelon and Christopher Abelin mentioned in the records are one and the same person, that his first wife was Anne Marie Pedersdatter, his second wife was Christine Moller, and that Philip Conrad Abelin, born in 1784, was the son of Christopher and Anne Marie, and that he was a tailor's apprentice at the time of the 1801 census.

I'm now going to update my family tree with that information.

Best Wishes,
Craig

Tak Paul, Lissa, Ralph og Jane til at tage sig den ulejlighed at fortsætte med at søge på mine vegne, jeg er meget taknemmelig.

Er der nogen der har nogen ide om hvor jeg kunne finde bekræftelse på, at Philip var en krigsfange og taget til England som sådan ?....... eller bør jeg placere en separat forespørgsel på forum i håb om, at nogen kan være i stand til at pege mig i den rigtige retning.

Jeg er sikker på, idet danskerne havde kæmpet for briterne, at den eneste måde Philip kunne have endt i England ville have været, hvis han blev tvunget til at gå der.

Har du alle enige om, at Christopher Avelsen, Christoph Abelon og Christopher Abelin nævnt i posterne er én og samme person, at hans første hustru var Anne Marie Pedersdatter, hans anden hustru var Christine Møller, og at Philip Conrad Abelin, født i 1784 , var søn af Christopher og Anne Marie, og at han var en skrædder lærling på det tidspunkt af 1801 folketællingen.

Jeg vil nu til at opdatere min familie træ med disse oplysninger.

Venlig hilsen,
Craig

[Jane C]

Hi Craig - I think they are saying this is "your" Christopher Abelin in the two censuses below - 1787 and 1801. It's highly likely this is your family, especially given Philip's relatively rare name and the way this family fits with what you already knew - perfectly. The Christopher Abelin who married Florentine Berentsen in 1804 - well, wait on that. This Christopher in 1787 and 1801 has the same job - whereas Ralph is maybe (?) saying another Christoph exists, as is suggested by the different job.

1787
kbhv, København (Staden), Købmager Kvarter, Kristen Bernikovs Gade, , 296, 5, FT-1787
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Christopher Avelsen   32    Gift   Hosbonde   Snedker Mester    
Ane Peters Datter   32    Gift   Konen      
Philip Conradt   3    Ugift   Deres Søn      
Pet.Simon Schandorph   5    Ugift   Fattig Barn taget at føde

1801
kbhv, København (Staden), Klædebo Kvarter, Klædebo Kvarter, , Matr. 185, 818, FT-1801
Name:    Age:    Marital status:    Occupation in household:    Occupation:    Birth place:
Christopher Abelin   47    Gift   Huusbond   Snedkersv.  
Christine Møller   26    Gift   hans Kone      
Christian Abelin   3    Ugift   deres Søn      
Christina Abelin   1    Ugift   Deres Datter      
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ralph -

A question for you Ralph - you wrote "As I read the 1784 marriage, Christoph Abelon was a laborer, not a master carpenter (1769-1815, opslag 67).  He or his bride was a member of the Danish congregation." Do you mean the 1804 marriage to Florentine Berentsen? So that the bridegroom in 1804 is is a different man from "our" Christopher?

Mvh

[Ralph Rasmussen]

I do mean the 1784 marriage, which now seems to be that of Philip Conrad's parents.  I have been troubled by the notion that a master carpenter would later be a mere journeyman.  Can the 1787 census be found and found to read different from 'master carpenter?' 

There is another occupation than snedker written in the November (10 over 9) 1784 baptismal record.

mvh
-Ralph

[Jane C]

Thank you for clarifying Ralph!

Craig - I see you've got a new thread on this family.

Mvh

[Craig Mitchell]

Hi Jane,

Yes, I was trying to find out the country of origin for the family name Abelin and thought another headline might get results.....as you said previously it is quite a rare name in Denmark and I have family members here who are very keen to know where it comes from. We're all hoping it is Danish but the evidence points to it being a much more common name in Sweden and Germany, even France!!.

I'm so grateful to you and everyone else who is taking an interest in helping me; everyone here is very excited at learning more about our Danish family.

Best Wishes,

Craig

Hej Jane,

Ja, jeg forsøgte at finde ud af oprindelseslandet for familien navn Abelin og tænkte en anden overskrift kunne få resultater ..... som du sagde før det er ganske sjældent navn i Danmark, og jeg har familie her, som er meget ivrige efter at vide, hvor det kommer fra. Vi er alle håber det er dansk, men beviserne peger på at det er en langt mere almindeligt navn i Sverige og Tyskland, selv Frankrig!!.

Jeg er så taknemmelig for, at du og alle andre, der er interesseret i at hjælpe mig, alle her er meget spændt på at lære mere om vores danske familie.

Venlig hilsen,

Craig

[Paul Londahl-Smidt]

Hi Craig,

According to the censuses, Christopher Abelin was born c. 1755.  I don't know if this is connected to your family, but on 10 Mqy 1741, Pernelle was baptized in Skt Mikkel, Slagelse, Sorø, parents Andras ABELIN and Ursila CHRISTOFFERSdatter, opslag 295 nr 28.

Sincerely,
Paul
North Carolina, USA

[Niels Bjøreng]

It is a good idea if you refer to your other thread to avoid double work from helpers.

Venlig hilsen
Niels Bjøreng   9400

[Craig Mitchell]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info on Andras Abelin. I'll take a note for future reference.........you never know!!

Best Wishes,

Craig

[Craig Mitchell]

It is a good idea if you refer to your other thread to avoid double work from helpers.

Venlig hilsen
Niels Bjøreng   9400

Hi Niels,

My apologies if I've made a mistake in starting another thread. I've never used a forum before and thought that a seperate query regarding the country of origin of a surname would have required a seperate heading/thread to get results.

If you can let me know what I should do regarding referring to the other thread I'll do so right away.
The last thing I want to do is offend anyone or cause any confusion, particularly since I've received so much help already.

Best Wishes,

Craig 

Hej Niels,

Min undskyldning, hvis jeg har lavet en fejl i at starte en anden tråd. Jeg har aldrig brugt et forum før, og mente, at en særskilt forespørgsel om oprindelseslandet for et efternavn, ville have krævet et særskilt punkt / gevind for at få resultater.

Hvis du kan lade mig vide, hvad jeg skal gøre med hensyn til at henvise til den anden tråd jeg vil gøre det samme.
Det sidste, jeg ønsker at gøre, er at fornærme nogen eller forårsage forvirring, især da jeg har fået så megen hjælp allerede.

Venlig hilsen,

Craig

[Craig Mitchell]

Please see my other thread - 'Origin Of The Surname ABELIN'

Many Thanks

Craig

Se min anden tråd - "Origin Of The Efternavn Abelin '

mange tak

Craig

[Lissa Pedersen]

Hi Craig,

I just make a reference the the other posting: http://www.slaegtogdata.dk/forum/index.php/topic,21816.0.html

Lissa

[Jane C]

Andreas/Ursula marriage, as transcribed by Ancestry.com:

Name: Andreas Apelin Sadelmager
Marriage Date: 14 jun 1737
Marriage Place: Slagelse, Soro, Denmark
Spouse: Ursula Christophersdr Zipper
Spouse Previously Married: Yes

Sankt Mikkel; Den Danske Folkekirke (Slagelse, Soro, Denmark), Marriages 1640 - 1815, Microfilm nr.
52502

FYI Ursula Christophersdr Zipper married Lorents Lauridsen Stangerup 13 apr 1731 in Slagelse; Ursula father = Christopher Zipper; mother = Anna Nielsdr. Ursula born 19 jun 1705 Sankt Mikkel.
Christof Zipper second marriage = Dorthe Jensdr 4 sep 1712

[Craig Mitchell]

Thanks Lissa, Thanks Jane.

sorry about this new thread business.....I honestly didn't realise....being new to forums.............I honestly thought a seperate query would require a new entry!!!!

it won't happen again..........if you think it would be easier and cause less confusion can I just delete the other one??

Craig

Takket Lissa, Tak Jane.

ked af denne nye tråd forretning ..... jeg ærlig talt ikke klar over .... er nye til fora ............. Jeg troede ærlig talt en separat forespørgsel ville kræve en ny post! !

det vil ikke ske igen .......... hvis du tror, ​​det ville være lettere og skabe mindre forvirring kan jeg bare slette den anden?

Craig

[Jane C]

Lots of people post a new query for each new trail to be hunted, or each new idea. I'm no expert - but as I watch others do this, it seems to work great. I think Niels just meant - let the readers of the new thread know that the old one exists. That way, they can go back to it and read it for the "back story" - where many clues are found.

I think Andreas and Ursula are worth checking out.

[Bent Seidelin Jessen]

       Hi Craig Mitchell,  I'll give you a possible historical explanation of the origin of Abelin.
Being a descendant of a Michel Seidel in Helsingør ✝ August 1616, I could draw this parallel as to the origin of my family name. 
Michel Seidel had one son, who died childless, and 7 daughters, one of whom had two sons.
One of her sons adopted his mother's father's name with the feminine ending of "in" thus founding my family name of Seidelin.  January 1st of 1666 is the first time the name is seen recorded.                                                         
                                                                                                               Bent Seidelin Jessen

[Lis Nielsen]

Hi Craig
some statistics from the DK today there are only 17 in 2011 Danes who have the surname Abelin, so it's a fairly rare surname.

when I look at another statistic (the deceased with this family name), it seems that the name is concentrated around Copenhagen and sjælland

vh lis

[Craig Mitchell]

Hi Bent,

That's a very interesting possibility as to the origin of my family's name. If this was the case then I'd imagine the name Abelin was derived in much the same way you describe from an earlier ancestor with the family name 'Abel'.

It may well be when I manage to trace further back that this is indeed the case!! 

Many Thanks,

Craig

[Craig Mitchell]

Hi Lis,

Thanks for taking the trouble to check that for me.

I think it's fair to assume that, unless, as Bent has suggested, that the name Abelin might be derived from an earlier ancestor with the surname Abel, that the Abelin's originally moved to Denmark from another country.

As for the surname Abel........????

It may also be the case that the very few present day Abelins in Denmark you mention possibly share some of the same ancestry as myself!

The search continues!!

mange tak,

Craig