Soren Wognsen and Kirsten Pedersdatter, Tyvelse, Praesto (2 queries)

[LeaAnne Davison]

Good morning
I have a marriage entry in Tyvelse, Praesto in 13 April 1798 for my ancestor Soren Wognsen and Kirsten Pedersdatter
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=17119333#157914,26514177
There are two witnesses Peder Jørgensen and Jørgen Sørensen
I was wondering if it is possible that Peder Jorgensen could be Kirsten's father.  What is the usual relationship to the couple of the witnesses.
The reason I wondering if it was her father is that her second son born was named Peter.
I have 3 children to this couple
Henrich Sorensen confirmed 1815 Bavelse, Tybjerg, Praesto
Born Apr 1800?
Mother ?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21913135#428699,78530097
Entry 3
Karen Sorensdatter confirmed 1819 Bavelse, Tybjerg, Praesto
Born ? 1804
Mother ?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21913135#428701,78530148
Entry 11
Peter Sorensen (my ancestor) confirmed 1819 Bavelse, Tybjerg, Praesto
Born  ? 1805
Mother not mentioined
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913135#428699,78530099
Entry 12

After 1805  the online indexes show the mother of his next 3 children as Margrethe Pedersdatter
Kirsten Sorensdatter confirmed 1821 Bavelse, Tybjerg Praesto
Born 30 Mar 1807
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21913135#428701,78530149
Entry 16
Lars Sorensen confirmed 1824 Bavelse, Tybjerg Praesto
Born 15 Oct 1809
Mother ?
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21913135#428699,78530101
Entry 26

Peter Sorensen B 1815 Bavelse, Tybjerg, Praesto
Mother Margrethe Pedersdatter
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/churchbook/sogn985/churchlisting141162/opslag15632427
possible confirmation record
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?epid=21913135#428699,78530104
Entry 37

My second question is do any of the confirmation records after 1820 indicate that Soren Wognsen (Vognsen) was a widower
Would I be able to ask for a transcript of each entry
Due to the lack of records I am unable to confirm that Kirsten Pedersdatter died and he remarried Margrether Pedersdatter (same last name)
Any help would be appreciated
Regards
Lea-Anne Davison

[Inger Toudal]

Præstø, Tybjerg, Bavelse, Kikud, , 1, FT-1801, B8971
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Søren Wognsen    31    Gift      Mand      Jordløs husmand     
Kirsten Pedersdatter    30    Gift      Kone            
Henrich Sørensen    1    Ugift      Deres søn           
Ellen Kirstine Larsdatter    70    Enke      Mandens moder

The betrothal 1798 shows clearly that the sponsors were Jørgen Pedersen here in Tyvelse and Wogn Sørensen in Titud:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17119333#157914,26514167 - right page

- seems probable that they are the fathers of bride and groom.

Præstø, Tybjerg, Bavelse, Atterup by, Et huus, 16, FT-1787, C0002
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Vogn Sørensen      58      Gift      Mand      Hmd. Daglejer       
Ellen Larsdatter      57      Gift      Kone

Most probably Kirsten Pedersdatter's parents:

Præstø, Tybjerg, Tyvelse, Tyvelse, Et huus, , FT-1787, C0014
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:   
Peder Jørgensen      52      Gift      Mand      Husfader, gaar i Dagleje       
Karen Henrichsdatter      39      Gift      Hans Kone             
Jørgen Pedersen      9      Ugift      Deres barn               
Maren Pedersdatter      13      Ugift      Deres barn               
Ane Pedersdatter      6      Ugift      Deres barn               
Charlotte      4      Ugift      Pleyebarn      Fra Opfostringshuuset 

Præstø, Tybjerg, Tyvelse, Tyvelse By, , 33, FT-1801, B8982
Name:      Age:      Marital status:      Position in household:      Occupation:
Peder Jørgensen      63      Gift      Manden      Husmand med jord kommen iblandt de fattige       
Karen Henrichsdatter      52      Gift      Hans kone     

The mother of Henrich (born 1800), Karen (born 1804), Peder (born 1805) and Kirsten (born 1807) is not mentioned in the confirmation records.

The mother of Lars (born 1809) is Magrete Pedersdatter.

Magrete Pedersdatter, smallholder Søren Vohn[sen's] wife of Titudhuset, died 7 Nov. 1827, 54 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913135#428707,78530299 - No 33

Søren Wohnsen, smallholder in Titud, died 23 Jan. 1832, 67 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913135#428705,78530258 - top, No 59

Venlig hilsen
Inger Toudal

[LeaAnne Davison]

Thank you Inger, once again you have helped me
It has been a mystery to me when I did my research years ago as to the mother of Peter b 1805 (my ancestor)
From the old Family Search IGI there was conflicting results for him.  Some showing Kirsten Pedersdatter and one showing Margrethe Pedersdatter.  I understand not to take these records as correct, so I have tried to establish some kind of result for myself.
I would be interested to know your thoughts on this.  From what I have read about naming traditions could it be possible that Kirsten b 1807 was named after the late wife Kirsten Pedersdatter. 
What other means is there to end this mystery, if any ?
Sincerely
Lea-Anne Davison

[Inger Toudal]

Søren Vohnsen in Bavelse has two sons named Peder, one born 1805 and another born 1815.

I think you can be fairly sure that the mother of Peder, baptized 4th Sunday after Easter 1805, is Kirsten Pedersdatter.
The son would be named after her father.

The mother of Peder Sørensen, born 3 Jan. 1815 and baptized 5 Mar. 1815 in the church, is Magrethe Pedersdatter,
so this Peder would be named after her father.

As for Kirsten baptized 30 Mar. 1807 in Bavelse Church, she could be named after Søren Vohnsen's late wife, but you
cannot be sure.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I've tried to find probates, but haven't succeeded.

Parish-Estate Cross Reference: https://aurelia-clemons.dk/par-est1.htm - Bavelse

LISTING OF PARISHES WITHIN THE ESTATES JURISDICTIONS: https://aurelia-clemons.dk/estate.htm

- 60  GJERDRUP [Gerdrup] & LYNGBYGAARD

- 63  GUNDERSLEVHOLM

- 170 NAESBYHOLM i Naesby, & BAVELSE i Bavelse

Probates: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/geo/geo-collection/18

- you can probably find them on FamilySearch as well.

You could also try probates from Ringsted-Tybjerg herreder and Tybjerg Herred.

Venlig hilsen
Inger

[LeaAnne Davison]

Thank you for giving me the probate information.
Unfortunately I do not understand what I am looking for and how to read the scripts.
At this point in time I will need to come back to this.

Sincerely
Lea-Anne Davison

[LeaAnne Davison]

I have a question regarding the death entry for Soren Vognsen

Søren Wohnsen, smallholder in Titud, died 23 Jan. 1832, 67 years old:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=21913135#428705,78530258 - top, No 59

The date is 23 Jan 1832 but I have found a marriage for his eldest son Henrich Sorensen as 30 Jan 1832 with Soren Vognsen as a bondsman.  This is after his death.  Am I reading the dates wrong or does the entry say something completely different

https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/en/billedviser?bsid=428703#428703,78530212

Thanks again
Sincerely
Lea-Anne Davison

[Inger Toudal]

You are reading the marriage entry correctly.

Søren Wohnsen was alive at the time, when the couple registered their intention to marry,
i.e. 3 to 4 weeks or more before the marriage took place.

The banns had to be read in the church on 3 Sundays in succession before the marriage.

It seems that a sponsor/bondsman did not have to be present at the wedding.

Søren Wohnsen was buried on the same day that his son Henrik married.

Venlig hilsen
Inger